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What a Judas posted:His point is that Valve isn't losing a percentage to some other company by offering their own microtransactions. Any other company would have to take into account Valve's cut before offering such items through Steam. I guess I just misunderstood. The post he is responding to doesn't seem to be talking about that. Just how the microtransactions would work in general.
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Jun 28, 2013 03:03
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Snoggle posted:I guess I just misunderstood. The post he is responding to doesn't seem to be talking about that. Just how the microtransactions would work in general. Yeah; pretty sure some of the F2P games on Steam use the Steam wallet system as well, so I don't see why Hex couldn't
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Jun 28, 2013 08:21
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CZE have proven that they want to be cool by their players, but they are a business and their goal should be to make enough money that they can keep making Hex indefinitely - giving Valve money for Steam transactions might make sense eventually, but not at launch.
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Jun 28, 2013 08:46
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Surely it would be worth losing (say) a 30% cut of the profits to reach double the audience, though? I know iOS takes a cut of microtransactions, but they're still going to tablets.
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Jun 28, 2013 10:27
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If they've been working on this internally for 2 years though they are bound to have borrowed money / burned through their treasure chests and will want to see as quick a return on their investment as possible, plus they will need to pay programmers to implement Steam stuff, etc I think it would be great to be on there, and I hope they are eventually, but I don't think it's likely any time soon edit: based on no actual information at all other than my rampant speculation of "bound to's" and "must have's" 
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Jun 28, 2013 10:42
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I really don't get peoples obsession with Steam. I use it, it's great for sales and whatnot and I understand releasing on steam opens you up to a wider audience. Then there are the people who will literally not buy pc games unless they are on steam or have a steam code  .If it makes sense for them financially to go on Steam then that's great, but this isn't a standalone game where Steam gets a cut once. If the game takes off it will have millions of transactions over the years and that's a lot of profit to give away.
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Jun 28, 2013 16:06
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New updates on the Hex site: Art Feature: The Shin'Hare PVP Champions - Ardent
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Jun 28, 2013 18:37
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http://hextcg.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/FeatherDrifting_Web.png I think that is my favorite champion so far, permanent flight for 3 charges seems crazy good.
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Jun 28, 2013 18:39
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I like that elf. Free 6/6
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Jun 28, 2013 18:55
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katkillad2 posted:http://hextcg.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/FeatherDrifting_Web.png What's more, Sapphire/Wild Coyotles seem like they're gonna be a supported archetype. If you're just mono-Sapphire, giving flight to your guys who are already probably small and evasive isn't the most inspiring (though I'm sure there are gonna be some guys with on-hit effects you can abuse with this). Granting evasion to some Wild fatties, that seems like a great thing to do every few turns. I feel like Ardent PVP champions are exciting me a lot more than Underworld ones, overall.
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Jun 28, 2013 21:07
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I wonder how game-relevant the pvp champions are going to end up in competitive constructed play. If the games go at the same pace as Standard-format Magic, you may not be able to reliably hit the 5/6 charge abilities even once a game. The decks that have been showcased seem more like aggro decks, but the shin'hare one in particular looked capable of being able to knock down 20 life potentially as fast as aggro decks in Magic with more focused deck-tuning. Even with the cheaper charge powers that you'll use once or possibly twice, none of them seem particularly special. If you think of the charge abilities as an extra card in your hand, relatively few of them feel like cards you'd want in your deck in the first place, compared with the cards we have seen. I have doubts that a +1/+1 counter on a creature or everyone gaining steadfast for the round is going to turn many games. The flight one seems like the only one with potential on the ardent side. The Underworld champions don't seem to fare much better; necrotic mage can disrupt aggro with a quick source of life-gain, the dwarf mage can likely remove a good creature in a control deck that lasts until 5 charges, and the battle-hopper could be synergistic enough to be relevant. More of the abilities may shine a bit brighter in draft, where games can go longer since the decks are less focused. I'm just not sure I see them being stellar in constructed decks. Disclaimer: this is all very much in speculation land given that we don't have anything approaching a full card list. In particular, it feels like the cards we don't have could be more controlling elements that help games last longer. I'm primarily just thinking about this from the standpoint of adding the champion mechanic on top of Magic and guessing how that would pan out.
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Jun 28, 2013 22:25
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I wouldn't dismiss the whole system based on what the most preliminary and rudimentary champions from the first set look like.
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Jun 28, 2013 22:29
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Selane posted:I wouldn't dismiss the whole system based on what the most preliminary and rudimentary champions from the first set look like. I don't feel like I'm being dismissive of the mechanic, just questioning its usefulness in light of what we know right now. Future champions could provide flashier abilities, or there could be an artifact that has "exhaust to gain a charge", or a creature that adds a charge when it damages another champion; those kinds of things could be waiting in store to make the abilities more relevant.
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Jun 28, 2013 22:41
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4 charges and 2 life to draw a card is very powerful.
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Jun 29, 2013 00:48
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Yeah, that seems like it's going to be the go-to champion for any deck running blood.
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Jun 29, 2013 00:59
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weird vanilla posted:I don't feel like I'm being dismissive of the mechanic, just questioning its usefulness in light of what we know right now. Future champions could provide flashier abilities, or there could be an artifact that has "exhaust to gain a charge", or a creature that adds a charge when it damages another champion; those kinds of things could be waiting in store to make the abilities more relevant. Yeah, I have to admit that, while I know the champs are basic for the first set, I'm not really excited about them in PvP. There are only 1-2 in each faction that seem remotely good to me. The flying one might be the best Ardent champ or the card draw depending on your deck type. Beyond that a lot of really expensive abilities that don't seem to do much. Way more excited about champs in the context of PvE
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Jun 29, 2013 16:42
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Really? For Ardent, Feather, Poca and Herczeg all look excellent. Elizabeth should be powerful in an inspire deck, and I can see Polonius being good in a ramp deck too. On the underworld side, Gozzog and Wyatt are alternatives to Poca and Herczeg in different colours, Bertram and Monika'shin look very useful for their respective tribal decks, Nin will be a must in any mill deck, and Dimmid will be good if lifegain decks are a thing.
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Jun 29, 2013 16:58
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pumpinglemma posted:Really? For Ardent, Feather, Poca and Herczeg all look excellent. Elizabeth should be powerful in an inspire deck, and I can see Polonius being good in a ramp deck too. On the underworld side, Gozzog and Wyatt are alternatives to Poca and Herczeg in different colours, Bertram and Monika'shin look very useful for their respective tribal decks, Nin will be a must in any mill deck, and Dimmid will be good if lifegain decks are a thing. In talking with some people last night, I think I found a more concise way to phrase my questioning. How many charges can we expect in the course of a game, and how impactful will the champion be on the game in light of this? I was judging at a Friday Night Magic tournalment last night, and I paid more attention to the land drop count of matches to try and get some sort of feel for the first part of that question. It won't be exactly the same since they are different games, and there may be other things that Hex adds to add charges, but this seemed like a good starting point. The control decks hit 9-14 charges when they won, the aggressive decks seemed to hit around 3-6 charges. With those kind of metrics, it seems like you would get 1-2 uses of appropriate champions per game when things go according to plan. Feather and Herczeg seem to fit well with this kind of usage - I should have not left Herczeg out earlier, you might get to draw 3 cards off him in a control matchup. Fahmy/Monkika'shin on the Underworld side seems like they have enough synergy enabled/enabling cards to support them. The rest just don't seem like they would affect the game much for the number of times you'd get to use them. This could definitely change with more cards being tuned/released (the only charge ramp so far is chlorphyllia and chargebot, not many mill cards, etc.).
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Jun 29, 2013 18:55
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Don't forget Shrine of Prosperity, which gives a control deck a huge number of extra charges if you drop one on turn three.
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Jun 29, 2013 19:01
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There are also Charge Bots, 1/1s for 1 that give you a charge when you play them. The one known rare resource also has some sort of charge mechanic, but the text is partially obscured.
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Jun 29, 2013 19:06
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pumpinglemma posted:Don't forget Shrine of Prosperity, which gives a control deck a huge number of extra charges if you drop one on turn three. Shrine actually costs 2.
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Jun 29, 2013 19:12
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pumpinglemma posted:Don't forget Shrine of Prosperity, which gives a control deck a huge number of extra charges if you drop one on turn three. I had overlooked that one, Shrine definitely would be a powerful turn 2 play, potentially worth another 8 or 9 charges to a control player. That's definitely the best case scenario though - it only hits once a turn, and not every card you draw; any resources you pull from extra draw abilities (such as Wyatt) or other types of card advantage don't get the bonus. It's also not good to draw into late-game. Realistically, it may only get you 4-6 extra charges, depending on how you're generating your card advantage. It does shift my view of Wyatt (and possibly some combo-y Tetzot) up a bit, but not really the others.
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Jun 29, 2013 21:16
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The way I was looking at it was that, even if you have a way to boost charges to make the more expensive charge powers more useful they would still be less useful than the cheaper charge powers because with the same charge boosting you can just use the cheaper powers more often
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Jun 29, 2013 23:42
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Grim posted:The way I was looking at it was that, even if you have a way to boost charges to make the more expensive charge powers more useful they would still be less useful than the cheaper charge powers because with the same charge boosting you can just use the cheaper powers more often Which is better, a 1-charge power that gives you 1 life, or a 4-charge power that deals your opponent 4 damage? Just because a power is cheaper doesn't mean it's better. The charge powers are theoretically balanced so that the more expensive ones are at least as useful as multiple of the cheaper ones. The balance won't be perfect, of course, and it's possible it won't actually be very balanced at all, but we've seen less than half of the PvP cards available in the first set (closer to a quarter than a half if I remember the numbers correctly). We know the champions are designed with synergy in mind, but we havn't seen what they're supposed to be synergizing with for the most part. EDIT: Unrelated, but I was just going through my empty GenCon time slots and noticed that they're going to have playable builds of Hex there (example event). Zurai fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Jun 29, 2013 |
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Jun 29, 2013 23:48
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weird vanilla posted:I wonder how game-relevant the pvp champions are going to end up in competitive constructed play. If the games go at the same pace as Standard-format Magic, you may not be able to reliably hit the 5/6 charge abilities even once a game. The decks that have been showcased seem more like aggro decks, but the shin'hare one in particular looked capable of being able to knock down 20 life potentially as fast as aggro decks in Magic with more focused deck-tuning. I think you're severely overestimating how quickly games will go, especially when the starting size of Hex's PVP constructed format will be about 20% of current standard Magic, and many of the games played at Grand Prix I'm watching are going longer than 5-6 turns. I'm having a really hard time imagining a constructed deck where I would want to cast Flight twice as often as drawing a single card.
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Jun 29, 2013 23:54
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Lone Goat posted:I think you're severely overestimating how quickly games will go, especially when the starting size of Hex's PVP constructed format will be about 20% of current standard Magic, and many of the games played at Grand Prix I'm watching are going longer than 5-6 turns. 5-6 turns does not equal 5-6 land drops. As for the second part, I can think of decks that would be happy to cast flight once over not drawing a card at all. Edit: as far as over-estimation, that is completely possible and I keep stressing that this is very tentative. I feel like we've seen much more of the aggro components than the control components, especially with the demo-games from twitch. weird vanilla fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Jun 30, 2013 |
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Jun 30, 2013 00:43
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weird vanilla posted:I feel like we've seen much more of the aggro components than the control components, especially with the demo-games from twitch. For sure. Control games take longer and aren't as interesting for inexperienced players to watch, so decks that focus more on quick aggression or big beatsticks are a superior choice for pre-alpha streaming on a time limit. I'm sure there's plenty of room for dominant control decks in a 400 (PvP) card base set, we just likely won't see much of that style of deck until alpha and beta.
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Jun 30, 2013 01:10
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Also, in decks with Cerulean Mirror Knight, casting flight once could result in drawing many cards. It will be interesting to see whether champions can be sideboarded out, as well - if so, you could sideboard in Feather after you knew your opponent had no fliers of their own.
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Jun 30, 2013 01:18
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Zurai posted:For sure. Control games take longer and aren't as interesting for inexperienced players to watch, so decks that focus more on quick aggression or big beatsticks are a superior choice for pre-alpha streaming on a time limit. I'm sure there's plenty of room for dominant control decks in a 400 (PvP) card base set, we just likely won't see much of that style of deck until alpha and beta. I have a control deck semi-brewed. I'll need to see the whole set, of course, but a number of the cards we've seen will absolutely make the cut.
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Jun 30, 2013 01:23
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God the Shin'Hare look like complete rear end. Like a parody of a Saturday morning cartoon or something.
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Jun 30, 2013 01:56
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Veyrall posted:God the Shin'Hare look like complete rear end. Like a parody of a Saturday morning cartoon or something. You shut your mouth. 
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Jun 30, 2013 02:51
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Veyrall posted:God the Shin'Hare look like complete rear end. Like a parody of a Saturday morning cartoon or something. Hey it could be worse  
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Jun 30, 2013 04:40
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Veyrall, if you want a parody of Saturday morning cartoons done right, look up the Happy Tree Friends. They're pretty awesome.
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Jun 30, 2013 17:30
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Looks like it's time for the weekly update! They just updated the main site with two new cards. One of them is an interesting card that voids out everyone's hand, graveyard and in play, gives everyone an additional 0/10 resources and 5 of each threshold. It costs 10. I...dunno about that one. It's definitely a build around me, but anything that also benefits the opponent is a little sketchy to me. On the other hand, it will basically destroy an aggro/reanimator deck, and if you've got lots of card draw, you might come out of it ok. The other card is a 1/1 for 1 (ruby threshold) that gets +3/+3 if you have no cards in your hand. A fun little aggro beater.
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Jul 5, 2013 21:13
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Captain Capitalism posted:Looks like it's time for the weekly update! They just updated the main site with two new cards. One of them is an interesting card that voids out everyone's hand, graveyard and in play, gives everyone an additional 0/10 resources and 5 of each threshold. It costs 10. I...dunno about that one. It's definitely a build around me, but anything that also benefits the opponent is a little sketchy to me. On the other hand, it will basically destroy an aggro/reanimator deck, and if you've got lots of card draw, you might come out of it ok.   This is not near enough to sate my Hex news desires. 
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Jul 5, 2013 21:28
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One thing I'm still unclear on: in that Comet Strike card, for example, what does the +[0/10] mean? I get the 10 threshold for each resource type, but I'm unsure of what the other part means.
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Jul 5, 2013 21:36
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+[0/10] is 10 more max mana, but no actual mana. So, you don't get to use the mana the same turn you use the card, you have to wait to regenerate your mana next turn.
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Jul 5, 2013 21:45
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It means you get 10 resources this turn, but not recurring each turn. In Magic terms, this card would be "Each player adds ten mana of any color to their mana pool." Edit: one of us is wrong about which number is which, though I'm not sure who it is Edit 2: you're right, I just looked at Spectral Lotus Kakesu fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Jul 5, 2013 |
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Jul 5, 2013 21:46
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revengeanceful posted:One thing I'm still unclear on: in that Comet Strike card, for example, what does the +[0/10] mean? I get the 10 threshold for each resource type, but I'm unsure of what the other part means. It means you don't have the charges to spend until the next turn. So even if you get card draw you can't combo off of it unless there is someway to recharge the charges mid turn.
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Jul 5, 2013 21:51
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Looks like there is more news. Hex will be at Gen Con in Indianapolis next month, hosting a league that will reward prizes in game. http://hextcg.com/hex-at-gen-con/ Isn't it a little weird to be doing tournaments for a game that won't be released yet? 
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Jul 5, 2013 22:15
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