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Danny LaFever posted:I suspect he will do a 180 on his lovely beliefs. Keep us updated. Well, if the widespread and well-documented abduction, abuse, rape and indoctrination of children wasn't already convincing enough, how would mild to moderate starvation change anything?
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Jul 16, 2013 20:38
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eXXon posted:Well, if the widespread and well-documented abduction, abuse, rape and indoctrination of children wasn't already convincing enough, how would mild to moderate starvation change anything? Isn't a little bit of rape/beating a small price to pay for being elevated out of savage uncivilization?
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Jul 16, 2013 20:40
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If anybody is bored, Rob Ford is possibly blowing his subway vote to poo poo with his own incompetence live on TV. http://www.citynews.ca/2013/07/16/live-stream-council-debates-scarborough-subway-shorter-election-campaigns/
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Jul 16, 2013 21:31
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I was just having a trip down memory lane Does anyone remember the Toronto squeegee panic back during the Lastman days?
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Jul 16, 2013 21:33
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Funkdreamer posted:I was just having a trip down memory lane Remember? I was one of the organizers of the Hands Off Street Youth march.  http://www.ocap.ca/node/116
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Jul 16, 2013 21:35
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HookShot posted:BRB, emailing that to my brother in law that think natives don't deserve money for their time in residential schools because it was a good thing for them. Stop emailing me, goddammit.  The abuse against aboriginal in the past is definitely affecting future generations. I don't think we will see a significant improvement for the next 50 years unless something drastic change. I do agree that they do deserve assistance (educational, emotional, and employment support) to help break the cycle. Reserves are having major issues with lack of care and support but it doesn't help when the councils behave like greedy fuckheads. I don't know much about reserves politics to really comment any further. I do know enough about their overrepresentation in the prison population and that's terrible.
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Jul 16, 2013 21:35
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PK loving SUBBAN posted:Remember? I was one of the organizers of the Hands Off Street Youth march.
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Jul 16, 2013 22:07
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Funkdreamer posted:Um hello we have a right not to be touched/looked at by the poor Forcible contact upcaste
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Jul 16, 2013 22:15
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quaint bucket posted:Stop emailing me, goddammit. Man, I've been reading through a whole bunch of 1980s Ontario documents on First Nations negotiations for my work, and while I can't disclose anything substantial for legal reasons, I can tell you that holy poo poo we have been dicks to them for literally centuries. A shitload of native stereotypes (up to and including the 'greedy chiefs' meme) are quite simply the natural result of awful, awful government policies that were implicitly designed to force the natives to either assimilate or live in poverty. That being said, even the official government response is nothing compared to the levels of shitheadedness that are displayed by some of the correspondence these ministers receive from non-native members of the public. I had to read a document today that made me physically uncomfortable from the level of angry hatred and vitriol it directed at natives simply for existing, and from the amount of blame it shoveled squarely onto their shoulders for poverty and poor conditions. "What's that, the government systematically impoverished and degraded you for more than the last century, and now you're poor and uneducated? Clearly it's your own loving fault, you stupid Indian. Stop being so lazy. And government, don't you dare help them, because that would be reverse racism. Just leave them to stew in the mess of awful conditions you already created, if you lift a finger to help them with my tax dollars I'll raise an ungodly fuss." Canadians are loving dicks sometimes, and to be quite frank I'm still shocked by the level of racism that's perfectly acceptable in Canadian society to direct towards First Nations people.
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Jul 16, 2013 22:53
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Danny LaFever posted:I suspect he will do a 180 on his lovely beliefs. Keep us updated. Yeah, no he won't. As eXXon pointed out, if what already happened wasn't enough, I don't think this is going to change his views.
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Jul 16, 2013 23:08
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I'm guessing these documents aren't publicly available online somewhere? They sound interesting as poo poo.vyelkin posted:"What's that, the government systematically impoverished and degraded you for To be fair, people still make this argument all the loving time.
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Jul 16, 2013 23:09
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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vyelkin posted:Man, I've been reading through a whole bunch of 1980s Ontario documents on First Nations negotiations for my work, and while I can't disclose anything substantial for legal reasons Pardon me for asking, but are you with TRC? I was going to do subcontract work with another contractor (THG) for TRC on residential school documents. It got held up in court for approximately a year or two before they finally got the documents released (or about to be done?). By that time, I was already doing contract work for someone else and had no time to spare. Would have been interesting to scan some of that stuff, though. I get what you're saying about Canadians sharing the sentiment that the "Indians" for it too good and therefore we should not help them out of this mess. It's really weird when you hear the same thing from a Metis, though...
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Jul 16, 2013 23:16
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/\/\/\ No, Archives of OntarioPittTheElder posted:I'm guessing these documents aren't publicly available online somewhere? They sound interesting as poo poo. Well, they're restricted archival records which means that a lot of them are publicly available but not online. You'd have to submit an FOI request to the Archives of Ontario (although really pretty much any major government in Canada will have some of records like this) and we'd then have to review them for you before you could see them, which takes a while depending how many documents you request and can also be kinda costly. They might be available online in like 70 years or so, when the 100 year exemption expires. Don't let me fool you though, most of the documents are a horrifying combination of really really boring and really really depressing.
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Jul 16, 2013 23:17
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vyelkin posted:Don't let me fool you though, most of the documents are a horrifying combination of really really boring and really really depressing. To be fair, thats all history once you start digging deep enough. Even Canada has its fair share of horrifying and depressing things weve done in the past (and continue to do because tradition). 
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Jul 17, 2013 01:36
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vyelkin posted:Canadians are loving dicks sometimes, and to be quite frank I'm still shocked by the level of racism that's perfectly acceptable in Canadian society to direct towards First Nations people. My fiancée is a social psychologist and always says First Nations are one of the last groups of people in Canada that people feel they can explicitly hate in a socially normative sense. It's the thing that unites us from sea to shining sea~* 
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Jul 17, 2013 01:38
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a primate posted:My fiancée is a social psychologist and always says First Nations are one of the last groups of people in Canada that people feel they can explicitly hate in a socially normative sense. It's the thing that unites us from sea to shining sea~* I never really thought about it before, but this seems completely true. How did that happen? It's really sinister. One of the most awkward moments of my life was when I driving home with my ex's mother one night and she suddenly went off on this incredibly racist tirade about first nations people, completely out of nowhere. It was so bizarre and shocking to me. This hatred surfaced more subtly later, such as when she made a point to sneer at the totem poles at the ROM. I'd assume that someone like that probably has similar feelings about other races and cultures, but I never heard her speak an ill word about anyone but first nations people. Well, first nations and newfies to be precise, but I don't know if that counts. Huge Liability fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Jul 17, 2013 |
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Jul 17, 2013 02:06
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The fact that the reserves exist is probably part of it. Makes it easy to draw a (false) us-and-them divide.
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Jul 17, 2013 02:47
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Let's see the early 1940's ??? Wasn't there a WORLD WAR being fought ??? Weren't a lot of scientists under pressure to produce or go 'home' ???? Yes, it is a pity that aboriginals were used as 'guinea pigs' - but more telling is that they allowed themselves to be used as guinea pigs. Another dagger in the propagated MYTH that the native inhabitants of Canada were self-sufficient and self-reliant. heil (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 17, 2013 02:48
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We had to experiment on the lesser races to defeat the Nazi ideology!!
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Jul 17, 2013 02:55
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To defeat a monster, we had to become monsters. 
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Jul 17, 2013 03:30
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I'm pretty sure between Christie Pits, Alberta Social Credit, and King's virulent anti-Semitism, we could have taught Hitler a thing or two about hating Jews. Edit: And duh the St. Louis Funkdreamer fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Jul 17, 2013 |
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Jul 17, 2013 03:58
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Huge Liability posted:One of the most awkward moments of my life was when I driving home with my ex's mother one night and she suddenly went off on this incredibly racist tirade about first nations people, completely out of nowhere. It was so bizarre and shocking to me. This hatred surfaced more subtly later, such as when she made a point to sneer at the totem poles at the ROM. Ah, the classic "person you otherwise respect suddenly goes on racist tirade" bit. It's seriously like stepping on a loving landmine. I've been trying to avoid it of late by intentionally opening up casual discussions on issues like First Nations, poverty, etc. with people I've just met in order to gauge whether or not I can have any hope of being around them without being unutterably repulsed after some random, awkward moment in the future. Funkdreamer posted:I'm pretty sure between Christie Pits, Alberta Social Credit, and King's virulent anti-Semitism, we could have taught Hitler a thing or two about hating Jews. Hey, don't forget our good buddy Adrien Arcand, the Canadian führer. Vermain fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Jul 17, 2013 |
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Jul 17, 2013 04:09
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A professor of mine (well, she was a PhD Candidate at the time) wrote a blog post about the treatment of First Nations people in Canada, where she argued that the residential school system and the Sixties Scoop were straight up genocide, going by the definition of the term stipulated in the UN genocide convention. I guess we can also add medical experimentation to the list of crimes against humanity the Canadian government will never admit to. 
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Jul 17, 2013 04:14
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I know this belongs more in the political cartoons thread, and I wouldn't want to derail this sobering and informative discussion on Native Rights, but I can't help but share this ridic. caricature of Mulcair. Actual content: When I spent some time in South Africa and read up on its history I was horrified to discover how much their apartheid government had borrowed directly from the Canadian Indian Act. In fact, their are still racist South Africans that argue that Canada "thrived" because they had to "deal" with a diminished minority Native population and that they had to deal with a majority Native population.
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Jul 17, 2013 05:06
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quaint bucket posted:Pardon me for asking, but are you with TRC? I was going to do subcontract work with another contractor (THG) for TRC on residential school documents. I know a few people who worked with THG on that project. It's too bad it got held up and everyone got laid off. That's the nature of contract work I guess.
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Jul 17, 2013 13:58
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Wow it seems like without Nigel Wright around the wheels are *really* coming off.quote:But [Peter] Kent said “friend and enemy” language is not only “juvenile,” but harkens to former U.S. president Richard Nixon’s so-called “Enemies List,” the existence of which was revealed during the Watergate scandal. http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/0...ate-comparison/ Peter Kent certainly didn't waste any time getting some revenge, did he?
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Jul 17, 2013 15:19
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PK loving SUBBAN posted:Wow it seems like without Nigel Wright around the wheels are *really* coming off. See, I disagree. Remember, Wright wasn't Chief of Staff for the past ten years. They've always been that slick. I think it's more of everything is starting to breakdown. I think Wright is a symptom, not a cause, fi that makes any sense.
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Jul 17, 2013 16:01
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vyelkin posted:That being said, even the official government response is nothing compared to the levels of shitheadedness that are displayed by some of the correspondence these ministers receive from non-native members of the public. I couldn't tell you if I ever met a native person prior to visiting Caledonia a few years ago. Maybe if I grew up near as reserve or something, but I can't imagine harbouring vitriolic hatred towards people I've never encountered IRL or even in the news/media. 
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Jul 17, 2013 16:03
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I think it's more common either out here in the west, or in smaller communities that are near reservations. One or both, anyway. When I lived on Vancouver Island, I could rarely go a day without hearing some sort of denigrating comment about reservations or indian land or whatever. It wasn't really malicious, mostly just ignorant, but I think that kind of thing is even worse because it's so ingrained in the culture that it isn't seen as racist, just normal. The idea that calling indians dirty, poor, drunk, gambling-addicted, or whatever, wasn't seen as a stereotype, merely truth.
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Jul 17, 2013 16:08
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Ofc. Sex Robot BPD posted:I have never encountered overt racism directed at Natives, whereas I've encountered a ton directed at the South Asian community in the GTA. I haven't even encountered the casual "ironic" racism typically directed at black people. Is it primarily a rural thing? Trust me, there is a shocking amount of racism towards natives from the GTA, and Vancouver I've found.
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Jul 17, 2013 16:10
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There's a shitton of racism towards natives in the Ottawa region, too. A lot of it is that ignorant, intellectually cowardly "I'm not racist BUT" poo poo, but that doesn't matter at all because it's so horrifically entrenched and widespread that "I'm not racist BUT we should stop providing any kind of support whatsoever to reserves including the basic health care and infrastructure that all Canadians get, because if the natives want Canadian benefits they need to leave their reservations forever and be Canadian citizens like the rest of us, and anyone who wants to stay behind can go back to being real natives and live off hunting and fishing and not use cars and stuff" is somehow something that a person can say in the presence of other humans and not get completely loving crucified for. I'm pretty sure it's like this everywhere. Canada, all told, is kind of a horrifyingly racist nation, it's just that most of our racism is directed at a minority that doesn't get a lot of (positive) media attention so it never even occurs to anybody that priding ourselves on our tolerance and diversity is as horribly ironic and sad as it is noble and well-intentioned. Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Jul 17, 2013 |
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Jul 17, 2013 16:32
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Angry Diplomat posted:I'm pretty sure it's like this everywhere. Canada, all told, is kind of a horrifyingly racist nation, it's just that most of our racism is directed at a minority that doesn't get a lot of (positive) media attention so it never even occurs to anybody that priding ourselves on our tolerance and diversity is as horribly ironic and sad as it is noble and well-intentioned. Priding ourselves on our tolerance is also something we've only been doing since the signing of the Charter. It's amazing that something that happened in the loving 80's seems to have totally wiped out the centuries of racism prior to it in the public's imagination. Plus, even if most Canadians aren't overtly anti-miscegenation, go-back-to-where-you-came-from racist, there's still a lot of "why won't they assimilate" hand-wringing that is just thinly-veiled racism.
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Jul 17, 2013 17:13
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Here's your periodic reminder, courtesy of the CD Howe Institute, that our tax code is an absolute mess.  That 85% effective marginal tax rate in Québec for a family of two earners earning 25k/yr each? Uggggh.
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Jul 17, 2013 17:20
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In my experience in both Regina and Winnipeg I can say it's crazy prevalent in these locations too, even among otherwise rational people. I'd say most people only encounter First Nations individuals panhandling or on the street, where there is a disproportionate representation (although by no means are they the only group out there), while average Joe or Jane who happens to be First Nations makes up a very small percentage of the overall population so they're rarely encountered in day-to-day life. The poorest are visible, while everyone else is a tiny segment of the population. I've asked people who've said racist things what percentage do you think First Nations, Metis, and Inuit make up of Canada (or Saskatchewan, or Manitoba) and usually hear 30% or more as the answer. They go on to assume every single one of these people gets a full free-ride to University, pays no taxes at all, and gets free money from the government (don't know it's less than  ). But yeah: the West is super racist and it only gets worse outside of major cities. I've never encountered racism to new Canadians and immigrants are pretty widely celebrated in all of our Multicultural festivals (Folklorama in Winnipeg, Mosaic in Regina, FolkFest in Saskatoon). Mods please add $5 smilie called :treatybux: thx
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Jul 17, 2013 17:21
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Pinterest Mom posted:Here's your periodic reminder, courtesy of the CD Howe Institute, that our tax code is an absolute mess. Why is there such a spike? Is it due to CPP and EI capping out?
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Jul 17, 2013 17:28
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Angry Diplomat posted:There's a shitton of racism towards natives in the Ottawa region, too. I'm sure these two are related. It seems like the media in this town aren't likely to be heard unless they lean over to one side until they're practically horizontal and yell as loudly as possible. Natives are almost universally depicted as the bad guysm, either because they're either depicted as asking for "more money" with no context that could show us the gulf between what they have and what they need, or their reasonable requests are obscured by ad-hom attacks against the person doing the asking. "Theresa Spence needs money to fix her reserve, but she's a nepotistic fatty so gtfo lol" is a thing that actually happened. It's sickening.
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Jul 17, 2013 17:34
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Geoid posted:I've asked people who've said racist things what percentage do you think First Nations, Metis, and Inuit make up of Canada (or Saskatchewan, or Manitoba) and usually hear 30% or more as the answer. They go on to assume every single one of these people gets a full free-ride to University, pays no taxes at all, and gets free money from the government (don't know it's less than Growing up with all of those "truths" you can easily imagine how well off the native communities are. Then you need to pay for your own school (hahaha) get a job, and pay taxes unlike all those "lucky bastards" living off your hard work. Couple that with the (well publicized*) failures, and it is just more proof that there is something wrong with them. Afterall you built them a Taj Mahal and they still manage to live in rotting houses. Jealousy and envy of an imaginary construct, built upon national self-delusion about our society. It's the mother of all Canadian privileges. * I actually don't blame the failures being made public, they really should be. However the media really needs to do better about the day to day conditions on native communities. There is no excuse for anyone in this country to labour under the belief that those communities do not have serious challenges.
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Jul 17, 2013 17:45
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Alctel posted:Why is there such a spike? Is it due to CPP and EI capping out? In part, yeah. Those cap out around 50k income, so income after that has smaller METR. On top of that, Québec has a few extra credits which phase out around that band - Québec Solidarity Tax Credit (a combination of QST tax credit and property tax refund), Québec Child Assistance Credit, and Québec Work Premium. The feds have the Canada Child Tax Benefit. So you make a dollar at, say, 41k of family income. The QST credit claws back 6%, child assistance credit claws back 4%, the Work Premium claws back 10%, you pay your EI premium and QPP, 7%, the Canada Child Tax Benefit claws back 23%. You pay 16% provincial income tax, 13% federal income tax. You lose 79 cents of that dollar in taxes, contributions, and clawed-back tax credits. You keep 21 cents.
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Jul 17, 2013 17:49
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ocrumsprug posted:Jealousy and envy of an imaginary construct, built upon national self-delusion about our society. It's the mother of all Canadian privileges. This more or less sums up the majority of Canadians complaining about other Canadians, in my view. Taxpayers pissed off about imaginary wealthy native communities shouting over taxpayers pissed off about imaginary welfare queens shouting over taxpayers pissed off about imaginary gunhaving cops coming to steal all of the guns shouting over taxpayers pissed off about imaginary insert anything that can be completely debunked with a cursory amount of research or critical thinking here. I love this country, but gently caress I hate this country
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Jul 17, 2013 17:51
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Angry Diplomat posted:imaginary insert anything that can be completely debunked with a cursory amount of research Well then it's a good thing our government employs a cadre of skilled and dedicated scientists whose job it is to collect this data and share it with the Parliament and the Canadian public. Phew. Did it. That whole sentence and I barely even smiled at all.
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Jul 17, 2013 17:56
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