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katium posted:
What a touching and bittersweet story. Glad that the decision came down while he was still around to see it. Brave guys, too. I don't know that I'd have it in me to handle all the crap involved in a test case lawsuit during that rough a time. Of course, now I'm gonna get extra teeth-grindy when I next hear about "defending the sanctity of marriage" or whatever.
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Jul 24, 2013 21:36
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Sweeney Tom posted:Montgomery County has started issuing marriage licenses for same-sex couples, in defiance of Pennsylvania's ban on marriage equality. Oh wow, how did I miss this. This owns, MontCo owns. Suck it Corbett 
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Jul 24, 2013 23:32
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eviltastic posted:What a touching and bittersweet story. Glad that the decision came down while he was still around to see it. Brave guys, too. I don't know that I'd have it in me to handle all the crap involved in a test case lawsuit during that rough a time. Considering how these guys came to MD (private jet modified for these specific medical needs) I assume that there's some serious money riding on this. Not that this is a bad thing-- if this is the kind of thing I'd have to do to protect my wife or partner while I was dying, I'd do it in second. I'm sad that these kind of things need to be done to get people equality, but I'm incredibly glad that my state and my vote helped enable this couple (and hopefully a lot more if they win this court case) to get some equality.
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Jul 24, 2013 23:41
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I'm going to say this claim by the clerk isn't unreasonable:quote:Clerk Dronenburg also raises yet a third argument: He claims...that Judge Walker did not have even the authority to enjoin the four California state officials, including the DPH director and the registrar, because those officials do not have the specific authority under state law to direct the clerks to issue, or to deny, marriage licenses.
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Jul 25, 2013 00:41
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ShadowHawk posted:I'm going to say this claim by the clerk isn't unreasonable: I'm always a little hesitant to comment on legal matters because it can get so technical, but this has to deal with a judge issuing a ruling on a legal matter and directing state officials to come into line with that ruling, not a state official taking it upon themselves to issue directives which go against the law. I can see the judge's order being flawed if there were a specific official he should have ordered to carry out his ruling which he mistakenly didn't address, but I suspect that there isn't any official explicitly invested with the authority the Clerk is contesting. In that case who is supposed to carry out the judges ruling?
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Jul 25, 2013 00:57
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Icon Of Sin posted:Naturally the south will still be last, as always http://www.wave3.com/story/22910746/first-federal-lawsuit-filed-challenging-ky-ban-on-same-sex-marriage  I'm not sure how this'll work, though, as KY has a constitutional amendment against SSM.
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Jul 26, 2013 15:47
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Johnny Cache Hit posted:http://www.wave3.com/story/22910746/first-federal-lawsuit-filed-challenging-ky-ban-on-same-sex-marriage Doesn't matter; no state law, not even a constitutional amendment, can violate the Federal constitution. Remember, that was the whole point of the original Perry ruling in California.
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Jul 26, 2013 16:07
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Hasters posted:Doesn't matter; no state law, not even a constitutional amendment, can violate the Federal constitution. Remember, that was the whole point of the original Perry ruling in California.  Man, I don't know how I could have read Judge Walker's ruling in Perry and then said something like that.
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Jul 26, 2013 16:16
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Hasters posted:Doesn't matter; no state law, not even a constitutional amendment, can violate the Federal constitution. Remember, that was the whole point of the original Perry ruling in California. Also, it was the point of the Supremacy clause, and of the Civil War.
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Jul 26, 2013 21:25
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rypakal posted:Also, it was the point of the Supremacy clause, and of the Civil War. As demonstrated by the classic and oft-cited case of W. T. Sherman v. City and Environs of Atlanta.
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Jul 27, 2013 00:24
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Picked up the petitions for the marriage referendum in Oregon! I am excited.
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Jul 27, 2013 06:59
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Only tangentially related to gay marriage, but since this seems to have become the catch-all thread for gay rights... http://www.forwardprogressives.com/gay-men-in-louisiana-targeted-and-arrested-under-invalid-unconstitutional-anti-sodomy-law/ Apparently the Sheriff's Office has been setting up sting operations to catch men attempting to engage in consensual, not-for-pay gay sex in private residences and arresting them under the states still-on-the-books anti-sodomy laws despite the said laws being deemed unconstitutional a decade ago.
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Jul 29, 2013 02:02
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hangedman1984 posted:Apparently the Sheriff's Office has been setting up sting operations to catch men attempting to engage in consensual, not-for-pay gay sex in private residences and arresting them under the states still-on-the-books anti-sodomy laws despite the said laws being deemed unconstitutional a decade ago. This is completely ridiculous. Wasn't this an episode of South Park? E: Now I remember, that was actual prostitution. Which means Louisiana is being more ridiculous than actual satire. 
jonjonaug fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Jul 29, 2013 |
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Jul 29, 2013 06:30
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hangedman1984 posted:Only tangentially related to gay marriage, but since this seems to have become the catch-all thread for gay rights... This is pretty much peak deep_south.txt.
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Jul 29, 2013 07:11
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hangedman1984 posted:Only tangentially related to gay marriage, but since this seems to have become the catch-all thread for gay rights... Yeah the catch all thread is the actual fabgoons thread, they are discussing it now. We welcome our straight allies (at least I'm pretty sure we do  )
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Jul 29, 2013 13:19
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Zero VGS posted:We welcome our straight allies (at least I'm pretty sure we do I can't speak for everyone but having thread which is just LGBT goons makes it easier to open up than a thread which merely has a lot of LGBT goons among others, no matter how supportive. Stuff related to gay rights comes up but then there's also a lot of other stuff which isn't aimed at a wide audience like relationships or dealing with family.
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Jul 29, 2013 14:25
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1337JiveTurkey posted:I can't speak for everyone but having thread which is just LGBT goons makes it easier to open up than a thread which merely has a lot of LGBT goons among others, no matter how supportive. Stuff related to gay rights comes up but then there's also a lot of other stuff which isn't aimed at a wide audience like relationships or dealing with family. Those are things straight people certainly could learn a lot from. But this thread has become more focused on all legal issues, marriage being the paramount one.
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Jul 29, 2013 17:24
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rypakal posted:Those are things straight people certainly could learn a lot from. But this thread has become more focused on all legal issues, marriage being the paramount one. Try to understand that for a lot of people, they'd rather not have their personal lives serve as some sort of educational experience. It took me months to build up the courage to make a first post, and if it weren't people largely in the same boat as me, I probably never would. Some things simply can't be learned: A straight guy will never really know what it feels like to get butterflies in their stomach talking to a cute guy. It's not because they're intolerant or they need to learn; it's because they're straight and part of that means not having those sorts of feelings. Sometimes I want to talk about that without caring about any political implications and I'd hope allies can understand it's nothing personal.
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Jul 29, 2013 19:13
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I figure this thread is more about general LGBT politics, including poo poo like those gorillas in LA, or stupid poo poo politicians say about gay people, as well as the dominant issue for the past few years, which is obviously marriage equality. The other thread is probably more just a 'being LGBT' thread. I think that's a good divide.
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Jul 29, 2013 20:05
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1337JiveTurkey posted:Sometimes I want to talk about that without caring about any political implications and I'd hope allies can understand it's nothing personal. I'm a straight woman and I definitely get the need for LGBTs to talk amongst LGBTs. Content: So, uh, apparently Pat Robertson kinda sorta accepts transgender people? http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2013/07/29/2374611/televangelist-pat-robertson-affirms-transgender-identities/ He admits he doesn't "understand" the idea fully, but apparently they're not going to hell for transitioning. He's still a shitbag, don't get me wrong, but broken clock twice a day and all that.
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Jul 29, 2013 20:39
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That doesn't even seem possible. I know one doesn't really necessarily follow the other, but I would have assumed that anyone that is cool with the whole trans thing would have to also be the sort of person who is cool with the whole gay thing. I guess it takes all kinds.
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Jul 29, 2013 20:42
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I don't want to start white-knighting people like Robertson but I think their idea is transsexuals aren't homosexuals, they're just mis-identified, or whatever, so if, say, you're MTF, now you have a vagina so therefore you're not homosexual when you're doing it with a guy. I guess? I mean, it's still icky. But at least the dicks aren't touching.
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Jul 29, 2013 20:49
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Re: Montgomery Co. PA I always wondered what would happen if a county or city somewhere suddenly realized they could just tell the state legislature to go gently caress themselves, and start issuing licenses. What's the state house going to do, draw attention to it in the media and make themselves look like shitheads enforcing an unpopular law? Take administrative action and hope nobody notices they're spending time and effort to enforce an unpopular law? Good on Montgomery. Suck it, Pennsyltucky.
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Jul 29, 2013 21:02
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On the other hand I'm not sure having local officials just decide not to enforce state laws is a good thing big picture.
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Jul 29, 2013 21:15
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Evil Sagan posted:That doesn't even seem possible. I know one doesn't really necessarily follow the other, but I would have assumed that anyone that is cool with the whole trans thing would have to also be the sort of person who is cool with the whole gay thing. I guess it takes all kinds. This is actually somewhat common, surprisingly. Iran theoretically has the death penalty for (male) homosexual activity, but both the clerics and government support (MtF) sex reassignment surgery. I think it's just that people with a very strong concept of gender roles can understand switching genders more readily than breaking the roles.
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Jul 29, 2013 21:22
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mdemone posted:Re: Montgomery Co. PA Asbury Park, NJ (big gay spot on the shore) did this in 2004 and issued a bunch of licenses to gay couples. The state, which had a Democratic governor (McGreevey  ) and Legislature at the time, sat on it and it just kind of faded from the public consciousness after that. I think McGreevey resigned not long after that so that blasted that story out of the water. And this was in 2004 which, in the world of marriage equality, feels like decades ago. If there wasn't the override effort and courts moves going on, I could see similar moves across the state as a way to put the screws to Christie, since the Democrats really don't have much else to go on against Christie's appeal.
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Jul 29, 2013 21:50
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There's also the fact that even if the marriage license get issued by the one jurisdiction, they may not be honored by any other jurisdiction. Say a gay couple gets married in Norristown under this - will the PA state tax agency allow them to file jointly like a straight married couple for their taxes? Will the federal IRS allow it either? One of them goes to a hospital that requires you to be married to have visiting rights, but it's in a different county - can they still do it?
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Jul 29, 2013 22:05
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:On the other hand I'm not sure having local officials just decide not to enforce state laws is a good thing big picture.
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Jul 29, 2013 22:11
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mdemone posted:Re: Montgomery Co. PA Isn't this what places in the South did in the 60s, with a bunch of the civil rights laws and court rulings?
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Jul 29, 2013 23:15
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Evil Sagan posted:I would have assumed that anyone that is cool with the whole trans thing would have to also be the sort of person who is cool with the whole gay thing.
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Jul 30, 2013 08:18
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The Mexican state of Colima, with roughly 650,000, has legalized civil unions.
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Jul 30, 2013 16:59
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Kugyou no Tenshi posted:I've known trans* people, like personally known them, who have been told by other trans* people that they're not really trans if they're attracted to their identified sex (like, that a lesbian MtF isn't actually trans), and who have been told by gay members of their identified sex that they "don't really count" as a man/woman, as if they switched sex just because they really wanted to shag that gay guy/lesbian woman that wouldn't take them when they were the opposite sex. No surprise, then, that someone outside the LGBT community could have that disconnect (and, like api call girl didn't quite say, a metric fuckton of people assume that all trans* people are straight). That's insane. I can hardly believe that a community that preaches open mindedness and acceptance of others would utterly shut people down like that.
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Jul 30, 2013 22:16
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DreamShipWrecked posted:That's insane. I can hardly believe that a community that preaches open mindedness and acceptance of others would utterly shut people down like that. No, 'the community' doesn't, some very stupid people do. Just like 'the black community' doesn't smoke crack and rob people.
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Jul 30, 2013 22:37
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Tatum Girlparts posted:No, 'the community' doesn't, some very stupid people do. Just like 'the black community' doesn't smoke crack and rob people. "A community" as in a group of people. Not the LGBT group in all, just a crazy section. In the same way the Tea Party is not all Republicans. Bad phrasing, I guess.
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Jul 30, 2013 23:02
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Yeah, I've heard trans people get thrown under the bus a lot by other LGBT people. Bisexuals, too; I met a gay guy a few years ago who was convinced that "bisexuals don't exist."
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Jul 30, 2013 23:19
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E. holy crap phone posting!Amarkov posted:This is actually somewhat common, surprisingly. Iran theoretically has the death penalty for (male) homosexual activity, but both the clerics and government support (MtF) sex reassignment surgery. That, and a lot of people of that generation don't understand the difference between trans and intersex. They might not understand someone with a normal body choosing to change genders but they do understand someone with a birth defect choosing to have it corrected. At least that's how my mother explained a MtF acquaintance of hers to me.
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Jul 30, 2013 23:37
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DreamShipWrecked posted:That's insane. I can hardly believe that a community that preaches open mindedness and acceptance of others would utterly shut people down like that. Being oppressed and just generally shat upon doesn't necessarily make a person kinder and more tolerant of others, sadly. 1337JiveTurkey posted:Some things simply can't be learned: A straight guy will never really know what it feels like to get butterflies in their stomach talking to a cute guy. It's not because they're intolerant or they need to learn; it's because they're straight and part of that means not having those sorts of feelings. Okay I completely agree with your wider point, but I have to ask: Are you seriously implying that straight men don't get nervous talking to people they are attracted to?
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Jul 31, 2013 00:42
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paragon1 posted:Okay I completely agree with your wider point, but I have to ask: Are you seriously implying that straight men don't get nervous talking to people they are attracted to? Um, the nervousness can be pretty different. When you talk to somebody you're attracted to and are straight, there's a pretty good chance that they're straight, too.
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Jul 31, 2013 00:47
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paragon1 posted:Are you seriously implying that straight men don't get nervous talking to people they are attracted to? There's a whole swack of extra issues that you get to deal with in the moment when the person you're attracted to is the same gender as you.
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Jul 31, 2013 00:49
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paragon1 posted:Are you seriously implying that straight men don't get nervous talking to people they are attracted to? Not to speak for Turkey here, but I think part of it is that straight people often literally have no idea what it feels like to not only have the nervous feeling from attraction, but also the issue of "holy crap what if he's straight". I can honestly say that I have been rebuffed far more politely by women who I didn't know beforehand were lesbians than most gay guys get by straight guys. I mean, when the difference can be as pronounced as "sorry, sweetie, I'm flattered, but I'm not into men" versus "HOLY poo poo YOU loving human being YOU'VE BEEN TALKING TO ME JUST TO TRY TO GET INTO MY PANTS GET AWAY FROM ME YOU FREAK HEY EVERYBODY THIS GUY IS GAY AND IS TRYING TO gently caress ME", there's definitely a huge divide that most straight people simply don't get. I got disabused of the "what's the worst he can do, say no?" delusion after a friend of mine told me about being punched by a straight guy he chatted up. In a gay bar.
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Jul 31, 2013 00:52
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