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All forward movement (at least on the ground, I forget if air dashing counts) increased your tension gauge before.
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Aug 2, 2013 15:37
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Question Mark Mound posted:⑥ R.I.S.C. Level I wonder if these counters will be baitable. I hope they will.
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Aug 2, 2013 15:40
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I think the R.I.S.C. is just a goofy way of doing a block meter. Only backwards.
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Aug 2, 2013 15:43
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Air dashing, blocking, walking, running, and whiffing specials all built meter in AC+. Pretty much any aggressive play was rewarded with meter. Looking more into the thread, it seems that FRCs aren't actually a thing. I thought that yellow RCs were FRCs earlier looking at the untranslated system guide. With the apparent lack of Force Breaks, I hope that they'll have some 25% meter options in the game.
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Aug 2, 2013 15:44
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Other people are saying RISC Level is just a guard meter like GG but it starts at zero rather than going down when you're in a combo. Also there's now slowdown for the opponent if you Roman Cancel. This is probably to make RCing an actual viable mechanic again because FRC was generally the most optimal way to spend meter in GGX2 series until force breaks came around. anime was right fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Aug 2, 2013 |
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Aug 2, 2013 16:05
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Plus I think removing FRCs for important combos helps make the game a little bit easier for new players. As much as I don't want games to be dumbed down to extreme levels, GG had gotten rather crazy and if they wanted to get new people into it, they really needed to find a happy medium between GG and BlazBlue.
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Aug 2, 2013 16:41
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S-Alpha posted:-GGXXAC+R is finally dropping this month on PSN! It'll be a free patch, but 360 users are going to have to wait a while longer, it seems. I knew buying it on 360 would be a mistake and cost me more money in the end. When will I learn?
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Aug 2, 2013 18:23
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Waterbed posted:Other people are saying RISC Level is just a guard meter like GG but it starts at zero rather than going down when you're in a combo. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but it sounds like you get rewarded for blocking a bunch of pressure by getting to "counterattack" for free? I'm not exactly sure what counterattack means in this instance, unless it's a free dead angle, like someone else mentioned.
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Aug 2, 2013 20:21
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Pretty sure that was a mistranslation. It's probably the exact same as X2, if you block too much your guard meter starts to flash and everything that hits you while it flashes is an automatic counterhit. Meter drains when you get hit or while you aren't blocking.
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Aug 2, 2013 20:31
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:Pretty sure that was a mistranslation. It's probably the exact same as X2, if you block too much your guard meter starts to flash and everything that hits you while it flashes is an automatic counterhit. Meter drains when you get hit or while you aren't blocking. Yeah, there's a pretty good translation here that covers all the available stuff.
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Aug 2, 2013 20:40
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Question Mark Mound posted:Plus I think removing FRCs for important combos helps make the game a little bit easier for new players. As much as I don't want games to be dumbed down to extreme levels, GG had gotten rather crazy and if they wanted to get new people into it, they really needed to find a happy medium between GG and BlazBlue. The only thing wrong with FRCs is how tight/arbitrary some of the timing windows are and you don't have to remove them from the game to fix that.
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Aug 2, 2013 20:48
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Mio Bison posted:The only thing wrong with FRCs is how tight/arbitrary some of the timing windows are and you don't have to remove them from the game to fix that. Well for some characters, FRCs and FBs almost totally remove the need for supers and RCs, but that's an issue on a character by character basis and not a problem with the mechanics in general. But yeah I agree, even just making standard FRC windows something like 4-5F instead of the 2-3F they are now would make them pretty accessible. But I honestly don't have an opinion one way or another if they keep them or not.
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Aug 2, 2013 20:56
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Mio Bison posted:The only thing wrong with FRCs is how tight/arbitrary some of the timing windows are and you don't have to remove them from the game to fix that. As said above, makes no odds to me whether they're there or not.
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Aug 2, 2013 21:03
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FRC's being a little bit easier would be good for the game yes. But then again you could just remove them, give players a way to rc projectiles, and adjust the amount of meter players gain to compensate for the loss of the cheaper frc.
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Aug 2, 2013 21:27
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NecroMonster posted:FRC's being a little bit easier would be good for the game yes. But then again you could just remove them, give players a way to rc projectiles, and adjust the amount of meter players gain to compensate for the loss of the cheaper frc. I wouldn't say it's quite that simple. The big problem with removing FRCs and FBs is that there are a handful of characters who really relied on them. Now for someone like I-No, they could just change move properties to give her things in exchange, but for Order Sol, FRCs and Fafnir are a big part of his game. Fafnir gives HOS some much-needed range, especially for punishing stuff and getting a decent combo off of it without burning 50% meter and his charge gauge. FRCs are an even bigger part of his game, because it allows him to Action Charge and build his all-important charge gauge without eating punishes. Now I very highly doubt that HOS is even going to be in Xrd, but if they were to put him in down the line one or two versions from now, they'd have to do some serious reworking of his entire gameplan to make him fit the restrictions of the system. And at that point you basically have a different character. That's not saying I'm not excited for the game, it's probably gonna be great, but you can't just remove them and adjust meter gain to make up for it.
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Aug 2, 2013 21:53
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S-Alpha posted:I wouldn't say it's quite that simple. The big problem with removing FRCs and FBs is that there are a handful of characters who really relied on them. Now for someone like I-No, they could just change move properties to give her things in exchange, but for Order Sol, FRCs and Fafnir are a big part of his game. Fafnir gives HOS some much-needed range, especially for punishing stuff and getting a decent combo off of it without burning 50% meter and his charge gauge. FRCs are an even bigger part of his game, because it allows him to Action Charge and build his all-important charge gauge without eating punishes. I should have added another bit in. It looks like you can RC anything at nearly anytime now. So with increased meter gain HOS wouldn't really have problems RCing his charges anyway.
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Aug 2, 2013 22:02
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NecroMonster posted:I should have added another bit in. It looks like you can RC anything at nearly anytime now. So with increased meter gain HOS wouldn't really have problems RCing his charges anyway. Even that wouldn't really fix the problem, and would probably even make for more problems. Let's say you just doubled meter gain from AC to make up for the doubling of the cost of making Action Charge safer. What would that do to the defensive game? In AC, FD is insanely important for defense, be it in one-frame jumps, airblocking grounded normals/specials, pushblock, and negating chip. Using it properly can really make or break defense, but increasing meter gain would do a fair bit to devalue it as a resource, making it less necessary to employ smart meter management for defense. Taking that to its logical conclusion, with chipless-pushblock so readily available, there would be more time spent in the neutral game because there's a much easier counter to pressure, projectiles would lose a fair bit of threat, and in the end matches would end up stretched out. All of these things are pretty contrary to what Guilty Gear is, and would make for a less fun game. Of course, to fix that, you could increase the speed at which FD drains meter, but even that has problems. That's before even going into stuff like what it would do to the neutral game if every character could basically FRC anything at any point because meter would be such a commodity in this theoretical situation. It really does require a better fix than "just increase meter gain". The game is deeper than that, and tipping the scales so wildly would become a real problem. Personally, I'm fine with HOS not being in the game. I'd rather have my main not in a fun game than have the game made worse just to fit my main in there. (Goddamn that's a lot of pointless words about one theoretical change. Instead of reading this, you should be watching Klaige's IAD TV. It's good poo poo about Guilty Gear by someone who's actually qualified to talk about it.)
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Aug 2, 2013 23:00
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ThePhenomenalBaby posted:Old now but whatever. Pretty sure Kliff is rear end now too, unless something changed. He was tied with Zappa for being best character in a previous revision of +R Wait how was Zappa the best character? I forget the last version I played, but I Zappa was my main noncompetitive character and I remember him being decidedly lowtier. Did they finally let him choose which ghost he summoned or something?
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Aug 2, 2013 23:26
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Question Mark Mound posted:Dustloop has a dedicated thread for tidied up notes now: Thats probably a mistranslation. RISC sounds like "guard bar" and in GG if you block too much, you get put into a counter hit state. Maybe its supposed to be "Once it reaches a certain level, you will be counter hit by any attack." (beaten but i agree) Mio Bison posted:The only thing wrong with FRCs is how tight/arbitrary some of the timing windows are and you don't have to remove them from the game to fix that. Zand fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Aug 2, 2013 |
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Aug 2, 2013 23:27
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Big Anime Fan Here posted:Wait how was Zappa the best character? I forget the last version I played, but I Zappa was my main noncompetitive character and I remember him being decidedly lowtier. Did they finally let him choose which ghost he summoned or something? He means pre-patch. +R got a non-titled patch in January I think that tweaked the balance a bit, namely toning down Kliff and Zappa.
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Aug 2, 2013 23:38
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Big Anime Fan Here posted:Wait how was Zappa the best character? I forget the last version I played, but I Zappa was my main noncompetitive character and I remember him being decidedly lowtier. Did they finally let him choose which ghost he summoned or something? I don't know the specifics, but early in +R, Zappa's sword summon was insanely, stupidly good. Here's a video showing a bit of what it was capable of. I'm sure there's more ludicrous stuff, but that's all I could find right now. Zand posted:Yo real talk, FRCs are a fun mechanic that is more than just a timing check, and pretty much none of them are more difficult than any normal poo poo in any other fighter. That's kind of my viewpoint on it. I have really awful execution, and can hardly do links at all, but despite my incompetence, I can get an FRC into muscle memory within an hour. It's just something you need to put the time in to get it into muscle memory, and you're golden. There's certainly way harder stuff in GG than that.
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Aug 2, 2013 23:42
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Big Anime Fan Here posted:Wait how was Zappa the best character? I forget the last version I played, but I Zappa was my main noncompetitive character and I remember him being decidedly lowtier. Did they finally let him choose which ghost he summoned or something? No, that alone wouldn't really have changed anything. The biggest thing is that if he gets the sword summon, he can leave it in a given place on the screen rather than having it stay in the same spot relative to him at all times, and coupled with property changes on a bunch of his moves, it lets him get away with some really silly poo poo (even at full screen or whatever).
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Aug 3, 2013 00:23
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Zand posted:Yo real talk, FRCs are a fun mechanic that is more than just a timing check, and pretty much none of them are more difficult than any normal poo poo in any other fighter. Honestly, the people that get hung up on FRC timings for GG are the type of players that cant ever do a link in SF4. The timing on them is unintuitive and isn't connected to any other game mechanic. You can feel out links in SF4, you can't feel out that an FRC is on startup frame 17~18. I'm not worked up about it or anything, I ground all of mine into muscle memory in 200-fuckin'-5, but having execution barriers provide no gameplay purpose and are critical to playing your character correctly/are unsafe if you miss them (e.g. Millia top) isn't in the game's best interest, it just makes it artificially harder to learn the game/pick up new characters.
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Aug 3, 2013 01:27
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Mio Bison posted:The timing on them is unintuitive and isn't connected to any other game mechanic. You can feel out links in SF4, you can't feel out that an FRC is on startup frame 17~18. I'm not worked up about it or anything, I ground all of mine into muscle memory in 200-fuckin'-5, but having execution barriers provide no gameplay purpose and are critical to playing your character correctly/are unsafe if you miss them (e.g. Millia top) isn't in the game's best interest, it just makes it artificially harder to learn the game/pick up new characters. Having execution checks in fighting games helps as a tension building mechanic and can make matches much more enjoyable to play. Practically every FRC in the game is timed in such a way that they flow naturally in strings, combos, or neutral play. If you learn FRCs within the contexts they are used, the timings are not arbitrary and unintuitive. For example, its much easier learning how to do Venom's stinger aim FRC in the context of a small stinger aim loop as opposed to just doing dry stinger aims and trying for an FRC. Its kind of weird to expect to pick up a character without putting in time with them. The idea that characters need to be easy to pick up and play (this usually translates in to shallow and homogenous) is the attitude that spawns games like Bloody Roar and DOA. There is nothing about making a game easier to learn that makes it into a better game. Some games have a bigger time commitment than others if you want to be good, and the time commitment required for FRCs isnt even high. GG was one of the first fighters I really tried to learn and it was by far the easiest execution-wise compared to CvS2, 3S, and ST which other people were playing.
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Aug 3, 2013 01:56
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Brosnan posted:No, that alone wouldn't really have changed anything. The biggest thing is that if he gets the sword summon, he can leave it in a given place on the screen rather than having it stay in the same spot relative to him at all times, and coupled with property changes on a bunch of his moves, it lets him get away with some really silly poo poo (even at full screen or whatever). Lmao wait, so basically they changed the functionality of the sword so it was just the dog but better? I always liked that you could set the dog up behind them after a knockdown for really cool wakeup pressure and blockstrings, and it's hilarious you'd get to use the sword without putting yourself at close range.
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Aug 3, 2013 02:11
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Big Anime Fan Here posted:Lmao wait, so basically they changed the functionality of the sword so it was just the dog but better? I always liked that you could set the dog up behind them after a knockdown for really cool wakeup pressure and blockstrings, and it's hilarious you'd get to use the sword without putting yourself at close range. The dog is his rushdown ability. Ghosts are pure zoning. Sword is a safety/mostly mirdange versatility kinda thing. The sword buffs were out of control but that's kind of where his strengths/weaknesses lie. Zand posted:Its kind of weird to expect to pick up a character without putting in time with them. The idea that characters need to be easy to pick up and play (this usually translates in to shallow and homogenous) is the attitude that spawns games like Bloody Roar and DOA. There is nothing about making a game easier to learn that makes it into a better game. Some games have a bigger time commitment than others if you want to be good, and the time commitment required for FRCs isnt even high. GG was one of the first fighters I really tried to learn and it was by far the easiest execution-wise compared to CvS2, 3S, and ST which other people were playing. um zand dont you play may. easier than 3rd strike... cmon man that's just false.
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Aug 3, 2013 02:45
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Waterbed posted:um zand dont you play may. easier than 3rd strike... cmon man that's just false. Quite a lot of the things he said in this post are pretty retarded actually.
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Aug 3, 2013 02:56
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Waterbed posted:
I played her a lot in #R and the hardest thing she had in that game was doing an IAD really fast for her bnb or maybe doing standing normals into dolphin upper (this isnt hard btw). She has 2 FRCs, the one of which she uses has a 6 frame window. GG has a gatling chain combo system where every character has free combos from overheads and lows, and where the difficulty of the combos usually stems from picking which combo to use depending on the situation with things like character weight, character hitbox, guts scaling, enemy guard bar, counter hits, meter-using extensions, positioning, or combos coming from moves with proration. The combos aren't that hard in GG unless you're making a combo video. Maybe its just me but when I was learning fgs, doing combos in GG was nothing compared to doing pretty much anything in any other game. I was doing dust loops in GG and failing to parry -> do a 2-in-1 in 3S. NecroMonster posted:Quite a lot of the things he said in this post are pretty retarded actually. I just reread it and actually none of them are Zand fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Aug 3, 2013 |
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Aug 3, 2013 03:14
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Saying GG is easier than ST execution-wise is pretty blatantly false. You don't need good execution or even be able to perform a single link in ST in order to succeed. Look at intelligent players with "Hans Moleman-like execution" like Seth Killian or Arturo Sanchez who are able to succeed in ST. Even I got Top 8 at Final Round in HDR and I'm far worse than they'll ever be. In GG, if you are unable to do FRCs, you will be unable to unlock even half of the potential of the vast majority of the cast.
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Aug 3, 2013 03:30
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I don't even know where to begin so I'm not even going to bother. But dustloops were like, baby's first combo and May is pretty close to being one of the easiest characters to play in GG.
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Aug 3, 2013 03:31
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Right, because picking the one character out of the cast (besides Kliff post-ACR) who is meant to be the high-damage/low-execution character is really making a point. And besides, there's a reason the Dustloop (in its most overpowered incarnation) was removed from the game. Which, not-so-coincidentally, ended up being the thing that got Daigo and other SF-main dabblers out of the GG scene and forced in tournaments dominated by diehard GG devotees.
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Aug 3, 2013 03:35
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Shiki Dan posted:
I think that this isn't a bad thing! If FRCs are so difficult for a person that they cannot play the game, its unlikely that this player would be able to play practically any fighting game at a competent level where their poor execution is not hindering their potential. NecroMonster posted:I don't even know where to begin so I'm not even going to bother. But dustloops were like, baby's first combo and May is pretty close to being one of the easiest characters to play in GG. Ok well thanks for posting twice about it anyway. And yeah, may is extremely easy in her current incarnation and even in #R she was really straightforward compared to the rest of the cast.
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Aug 3, 2013 03:38
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Haha I cannot even do slayers 6p frc anymore. Good thing he's one of those blessed characters who doesn't really need frcs.
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Aug 3, 2013 03:45
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Yeah my main point is your perspective is kind of skewed imo. May is megabraindeadeasy to learn. I don't mean that as a knock to you Zand, but I don't think the angle your coming from works. GG at its hardest is harder than all of those games, but for like mid-high level american tournament level play which we've both been a part of, you don't really need the digusting execution. Outsmarting people with high damage low execution characters is the most straightforward way to top 8 in GG in the US. When you have to do the hard stuff in GG, GG is the harder game compared to 3s for sure. I played both and a lot of the hardest Urien stuff was easier than the mid to hard Potemkin stuff. Like hitconfirm 6K -> Hammerfall is harder than like, triple tackle with Urien lol CvS2 and ST I cannot speak for. I think RC is pretty hard for a mechanic you have to consistently do, I can't think of a mechanic other than a perfect BDC that you hvae to do so consistently in GG during non combo oriented play.
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Aug 3, 2013 03:49
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Shiki Dan posted:Saying GG is easier than ST execution-wise is pretty blatantly false. You don't need links in ST but being able to do one-frame reversal throws without negative edge is a huge advantage, and it's pretty much the only thing you can do against guys like Fei Long in the corner. Which isn't to say that I can but with the top Japanese players so many rounds are decided by who gets the throw (and on the extreme side things like getting hit out of three reversal headstomps in a row to build meter for reversal super...). And of course playing T. Hawk is basically an execution check after a knockdown.
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Aug 3, 2013 04:29
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Waterbed posted:Yeah my main point is your perspective is kind of skewed imo. May is megabraindeadeasy to learn. As a person who learned to play May since the earliest days of Guilty Gear X (...on the Game Boy Advance), yeah, I don't disagree with this. She really is the easiest character to just get in there and play in all of Guilty Gear. But in that respect, there's something truly satisfying about abusing Arcsys' charge buffering to do crazy high/low dolphin pressure.
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Aug 3, 2013 04:37
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Not sure if people saying Dustloop was easy ever played #R Sol or not. The timing was really loving tight to do proper full loops, and there were a bunch of different versions and setups you needed to learn for it. Far from the easiest combos in the game that's for sure. Of course if you're talking about X2, Sol's dustloop were easy as poo poo to just crank out a few reps of and end with a knockdown. Those were really dumb, but so was most of X2.
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Aug 3, 2013 05:43
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:Not sure if people saying Dustloop was easy ever played #R Sol or not. The timing was really loving tight to do proper full loops, and there were a bunch of different versions and setups you needed to learn for it. Far from the easiest combos in the game that's for sure. I'm talking about #reload as that's the first GG game I played and learned to play. I actually figured out dustloops before actually looking online for anything about the game. Didn't seem that hard. But maybe I was doing something wrong, it was so long ago and my memory is poo poo.
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Aug 3, 2013 05:56
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Depends on how many reps you go for and how complicated of a setup you have. It's not hard to get 2 reps at all for sure (you don't even need to run to do that), but getting all of them requires a bit of practice. And then you get into the crazy poo poo like full wall-to-wall setups including air dash links and crap like that. It's definitely not the hardest combo in the world no, but calling it baby's first combo is being pretty unfair. If you were coming from MvC2 and doing ROMs on a regular basis you'd probably think they were pretty easy though!
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Aug 3, 2013 06:03
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Anyone have personal experience with Qanba Q4RAF sticks? Might need a new PC/360 stick soon and I figured I may as well get one that is dual-modded so I can use it on my PS3 as well, even though I already have two PS3 sticks. I'm suspicious of the price. How can it be so close to a Madcatz stick price but be ready for any platform out of the box, and with Sanwa parts? Are Madcatz prices just inflated? I'll take any other pre-fab'd dual mod recommendations, too. I don't want to be doing the modding myself.
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Aug 3, 2013 09:13
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