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You're probably going to find more happiness not training in wrestling since you're apparently so out of shape already and wrestling puts a lot of emphasis on athleticism. At this point it sounds like anything will do for you so I'd say to try boxing because it's usually super cheap and until you get in the ring to spar with someone you can essentially work at your own pace as opposed to a grappling style where you're performance is going to directly affect someone else's workout and training quality.
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Sep 2, 2013 20:53
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What part of Dallas? Generally?
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Sep 2, 2013 21:03
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Novum posted:You're probably going to find more happiness not training in wrestling since you're apparently so out of shape already and wrestling puts a lot of emphasis on athleticism. If Pinball doesn't give a poo poo about learning fighting, cardio kickboxing could be a good way to get in shape.
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Sep 2, 2013 21:06
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I would like, if possible, to learn fighting. I can be pretty quiet, and I think learning a martial art sounds like a good way to gain confidence. I'm female, if that makes any difference to what styles I might be suited for. Lake Highlands, close to LBJ.
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Sep 2, 2013 21:28
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Mr Interweb posted:The coach at the boxing gym I went to seemed to be against the idea of punching with weights for the most part because: My defense, very poor against Lt. Shiny-sides knowledge as it is, still remains so, but has also been supported by guys like Ross Enamait in the past and a ton of world class boxers have used it as a complimentary exercise (which, of course, doesn't prove it's the best exercise) anyway: 1. You should never ONLY do that, but if not wiedling 24oz glove regularly for whatever reason you can try low weights on the side to everything else in addition to never actually PUNCHING but just go through range of the movement with good form? I know always punching slowly will rewire you to, well, always punch slowly, but this shouldn't be an issue here because you won't always do that. So in the end I'm not sure how that will gently caress up your form. Basic kicking practice often entertains that idea that you should go through the movement with maximum control (and often as slow as you can) which is the opposite of just blasting full speed and power kicks every which way, with bad form. Because for many people esp beginners trying to go full speed/power just fucks up their technique and never improves it. It's easier to achieve good form at first when starting slowly. Completement it with normal punching (and kicks) to stave off the idea that you'r technique will be ruined because you can't punch fast enough or whatever while holding that light weight, or doing it slowly for other reasons. 2. And if you then do it, do it slooowly and with low weights, instead of doing it like some people did 5-15 years ago "when it was cool" in karate and/or cardio-kickboxing classes or whatever actually punching with weights, and as far as I'm aware, this really does ruin joints. I admit I might still be utterly wrong, but during the few short periods I regularly did some low-weight punching movements on the side my arm endurance was better after. Again, not trying to play the specialist here, and you are probably far better off listening to Lt. Shiny-sides or someone who does this for a living instead of me and just forget about, if you ever considered trying it. It just never harmed me personally. Did it help... well yeah, the same way kicking slowly with maximun control did. All the people I know who just swing their kicks from day one with no thought never really learned to control (and then aim) their kicks or build any endurance. But like I said, not picking an argument here, these are just my (meager) experiences. Something that springs to mind is that when training kicks, I have never heard of anyone who would have you to do THAT with weights. Slowly with immaculately control, for sure, but weights? No way. That's one thing that would speak against doing it with punches either. Ligur fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Sep 2, 2013 |
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Sep 2, 2013 21:37
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Pinball posted:I would like, if possible, to learn fighting. I can be pretty quiet, and I think learning a martial art sounds like a good way to gain confidence. I'm female, if that makes any difference to what styles I might be suited for. I'm training at Octagon by 75 and fitzhugh so that's kind of far and I certainly understand if you don't want to fight the traffic. It's a pretty fun crowd and Octavio is an awesome bjj coach.
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Sep 2, 2013 22:42
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Pinball posted:Any recommendations for a good martial art for me? I'm 5'5 and 139 lbs, with pretty bad cardio and strength, though I'm working on it. I was out of the country for a year traveling, and took an introductory lesson at a Krav Maga studio in my hometown before I left. We did a lot of warming up where my bad cardio took me out, and the instructor told me I probably shouldn't come back. That Krav instructor is a dick, and probably one of the few you'll encounter. I'd recommend BJJ with a club that offers some other stuff like kickboxing or boxing or judo or something. That way you can sign up for a week or two and try everything that fits in your schedule and see what you like. Some times when learning a martial art people can forget that they're still a paying customer and people being dicks shouldn't get your business. Also don't worry about other people's training. We all suck when we start and even when we think we're in shape for it, we're not. Even if you suck everyone remembers where they started and shouldn't be dicks about it. Ligur posted:My defense, very poor against Lt. Shiny-sides knowledge as it is, still remains so, but has also been supported by guys like Ross Enamait in the past and a ton of world class boxers have used it as a complimentary exercise (which, of course, doesn't prove it's the best exercise) anyway: This, no one is saying to ignore everything grab some 10kg dumbells and throw lovely combinations. We've talked about it as a way to help improve some aspects of your technique as an add in to the currently established training methods. I'm talking 5 minutes a week.
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Sep 3, 2013 03:38
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Ligur posted:Something that springs to mind is that when training kicks, I have never heard of anyone who would have you to do THAT with weights. Slowly with immaculately control, for sure, but weights? No way. That's one thing that would speak against doing it with punches either. With kicks you see many of the same issues as with punches, ie. changes in technique, joint issues, and reduction in performance due to continually decelerating the weight. What has been found to work is resistance bands. A couple of studies have looked at TKD fighters throwing kicks with bands as an intervention. They have found increased kick velocity and power. I believe there are two reasons for this, first you can kick a bag while you have the band attached and second is due to the band itself. When you have weights attached there is deceleration at the end of the movement, otherwise the weight is thrown out of your hand or you weighted ankle/wrist flings you off balance. This is internalized and you end up with slower and weaker kicks/punches. The bag allows you to maximally accelerate into the point of impact. This is what one would ideally want in combat and so the movement is very specific to the sport. Similarly, the band's increasing resistance as they stretch requiring high acceleration to reach the end of the range of movement rather than the athlete have to fight the momentum of the load. I'm thinking using bands in an intervention for my forever delayed PhD. All of this is when talking about trying to increase punching power. Going super slow for endurance is different but like I was talking about before, I still think there are better ways of doing that.
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Sep 3, 2013 10:20
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Lt. Shiny-sides posted:What has been found to work is resistance bands. We've used resistance bands for punches! Also sometimes as a warm-up and movement exercise, wrap a resistance band around your legs and then move around while holding a perfect (as as close you can achieve) stance and distance between your feet.
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Sep 4, 2013 11:08
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So I'm lifting and hitting the heavy bag quite often (muay thai) since I have time and definitely need to work on my flexibility. When I'm doing bag work, should I warm up for 5 mins or so with some punches/kicks and then do some dynamic stretches? Something like 2-3 sets of 10 reps of side, front, and backwards leg raises? I'm talking about when you stand upright and swing your leg whichever direction as far as you can go. And what about basic static stretching? Should I do that after I lift weights and after I do bag work? What's a good routine here? Thanks!
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Sep 5, 2013 10:48
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Christoff posted:So I'm lifting and hitting the heavy bag quite often (muay thai) since I have time and definitely need to work on my flexibility. Yes warm up before doing any hard work like heavy bag, and follow with quick dynamic stretches. A routine: 2 minutes of shadow boxing. Concentrate on feet movement, throw slow punches and kicks at this point. Don't try to "snap" them yet to avoid pulling anything. 1 minute of body weight exercise like stomach plank to right side plank back to stomach plank to left side plank (or something slow and deliberate which warms your core). 2 more minutes of shadow boxing. 1 minute of lunges or wall sits or such to warm up your legs. 2 another minutes of shadow boxing holding 2lb weights (this just to annoy Lt. Shiny-sides  no but hey it's a good warmup)1 minutes of pushups at your own pace, you could try turning your body after you finish the pushup and "reach" your hand at the ceiling, right and left in turn, to get some stretching done at the same time. If you like, this could be a good time to do a few more rounds of shadow boxing at your actual speed if you feel like your body is up to it and you're not in a hurry or bored of it already or something. Now dynamic stretches, leg raises are one of the best ways to improve your kick flexibility as a matter of fact now that you mentioned them! At this point do only one set of 10 to side, front and back with both legs. Leg raises are actually pretty hard on the body, so do three sets of them each like twice a week only. Other days to just one set. Then use about 10 seconds each to stretch your back, calves, spin your hips, roll your knees and wrists, thighs while standing up on one leg, windmill your arms on both directions, roll your shoulders both ways, open your chest by swinging your arm backwards simultaneously, side stretches (for example rotate your body while throwing your arms back to the direction of rotation) and stretch your neck by doing a half circle. Everyone has their own mileage, but at this point you should be warm and loose enough to do some serious power and speed work on a heavy bag or with the mitts without pulling or snapping something or just becoming unnecessarily sore later. And yeah do all basic static stretching (like, 30 to 120 seconds of each stretch) only after your workout.
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Sep 5, 2013 13:14
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After I wrote that I got to thinking about all the different routines for warming up to start a class all the different instructors I've trained with have had. One of my favourites is a French-Algerian former kickboxer. He'd just have us spar 2 minute rounds using low kicks only (with no gear) right off the bat, then 2 minute rounds of medium kicks only (often using just one specific kick) and have us play "ping-pong", an exercise in which you choose roles: you move as in regular sparring trying to maintain your correct distance and position. Role A) suddenly stops moving *bang* and role B) then also has to stop, and depending on his distance and how well he has positioned himself etc. perform a kick technique which is proper for the situation and connects. Then role A) immediately responds with his own technique, after which both continue moving again. After a round you'd change roles. After 10-15 minutes of games like these people would stretch for 4 minutes, always 4, by themselves doing what they thought they need to loosen up, and the technique section of the class would then start. All calisthenics and such were strictly left for the final end of the class. One Savate coach often has us warm up by doing rounds of slipping punches without any gear, so the first thing we did could be role A) throwing hooks to the forehead and role B) slipping them while both moving as you would in sparring. Or jabs and crosses. Of course slowly enough that your partner can actually get out of the way, and beginners often would throw left-right-left-right only to make it easy, people with a better eye could of course just throw what ever, mix in feints etc. Then after moving like this for a while we'd do some really intense bodyweight or calisthenic exercises (like 20 reps each of some really agonizing crap) do quick dynamic stretching and then start the actual technique class. This Mexican professeur on the other hand always had everyone put on gloves and mouthguards first thing. His first exercise would be what he calls "signals" (señal). You'd pair up, and role A) would give you a pad (or a glove) to punch, now everyone knows how to hold a glove for cross, jab, uppercut and so on. So role A) would give a "signal" for a punch for the left hand, then for the right hand, then for the left, and a right and on, faster and faster as the round progresses, and role B) would try to hit it with the correct punch as fast as possible (technique and power were secondary, just reacting and breaking a sweat was the thing for him.) After each 2min round we'd do 30 secs of dynamic stretching and change roles. Then we'd do "signals" with low and medium kicks, then with both kicks and punches, and stretch between each round until everyone was sweating like pigs and well stretched too. Our Texan boxing coach when giving you a lesson has you warmup and stretch for 10 minutes the best you see fit, then have you do 3 x 5min rounds of shadow boxing while watching your technique, and now you being all warmed up, you'll hit the mitts with him. A Finnish boxing coach (and the first guy in Finland to get the coveted "Silver" glove in Savate, which means you are a kick rear end full contact kickboxer with the experience to prove it) on the other hand has the class jog a circle around the gym for up to 30 minutes, while throwing punches, moving sideways, running backwards, sometimes taking a short sprint and then slow it to a walk during which all the stretches are made. Boring maybe but it works and is probably one of the most safe and healthy ways to do a warm up for striking like boxing IMO. And there are many more. Post ur favourite warm ups ITT!!!
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Sep 5, 2013 14:31
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Awesome, just what I needed. Thanks. I'll probably start doing static stretches directly after my weightlifting workouts. When you say 30-120 seconds of static stretching you mean at 30 second intervals, correct? Nostalgia4Dogges fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Sep 5, 2013 |
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Sep 5, 2013 20:52
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Ligur posted:Leg raises are actually pretty hard on the body, so do three sets of them each like twice a week only. I strongly disagree that they're hard on the body. 3x10 is bare minimum for a warm-up and can easily be done by an unfit beginner without any issues.
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Sep 5, 2013 20:58
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Does anyone have any experience or opinions on "grappling dummies" like the one linked? http://store.titleboxing.com/warrior-training-dummy.html
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Sep 6, 2013 04:03
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Christoff posted:Awesome, just what I needed. Thanks. Actually I meant you can do certain static stretches for up to 120 seconds! (I hate it!) I also forgot to add that doing long static stretches isn't recommended after a very heavy workout. Rather do 30-45 seconds static stretches max. Doing long, difficult static stretching with super warmed up and tired muscles somehow doesn't do you good. I don't know the exact logic and physiology behind this (maybe it results in overstretching?) but you can be sore and stiff as gently caress for who knows how long if you first roll for two hours or do 500 squats and immediately start doing maximum range of motion leg stretches for minutes on end. For 60+ seconds of static stretching, I suggest stretching classes, which only include a warmup and then the stretching and nothing else. I bet there's a ton of people in the thread who know more about stretching so feel free to correct, agree and disagree with what I'm saying, we're all trying to learn here right? ImplicitAssembler posted:I strongly disagree that they're hard on the body. 3x10 is bare minimum for a warm-up and can easily be done by an unfit beginner without any issues. Be my guest. If you really snap a leg raise, doing 90 of those with each leg every day can actually be counter productive, or so I've been told. Perhaps it may stretch the tendon or muscle too far and/or too fast for too many times, and that isn't good? My advice regarding this came from a kickboxer/boxer with a bunch of championships and 20 years of coaching and fighting (which doesn't mean she has to be right though but I usually believe what she tells me). So we'll usually just do 10 in each direction with both legs and that's it. Ligur fucked around with this message at 12:35 on Sep 6, 2013 |
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Sep 6, 2013 11:52
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re "leg raise" chat: I think you guys may be talking about two different exercises.
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Sep 6, 2013 13:44
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Yeah occurred to me too...
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Sep 6, 2013 14:08
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You guys are overthinking it in general. Just warm up for five minutes, stretch a bit, go light for the first two rounds on the heavy bag. It ain't rocket science..
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Sep 6, 2013 20:19
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eine dose socken posted:You guys are overthinking it in general. Just warm up for five minutes, stretch a bit, go light for the first two rounds on the heavy bag. It ain't rocket science.. Disagree. About overthinking. Agree about rocket science. Basically someone asked for a general warmup routine before heavy bag MT because he didn't have one and then was given a variant for one. How is that "overthinking" it? A simple routine without lengthy scientific tirades, I'm unable to see the harm in that. As for myself I've been in the place where I ask "well what could a good routine for doing kicks be like" and just told to "well just warm up and kick". Those times had no one overthinking it for sure, because no thinking was obviously involved to begin with... but then again, they were not very helpful either, to be honest. As for the the "leg raise" stuff, for example, that was alredy outside of the scope of the original question and a different topic - I see we're talking about the same thing with ImplicitAssembler and yes, I've been told doing tons of leg swings every day isn't useful vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv Ligur fucked around with this message at 09:30 on Sep 7, 2013 |
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Sep 6, 2013 21:22
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n3rdal3rt posted:Does anyone have any experience or opinions on "grappling dummies" like the one linked? I think they're good for uchikomi / practicing throws but that's about it. They can't really give you good feed back on how good a choke or armbar is or how good your knee on belly is. (If you want to do that, just get a pillow or cushion or something like that.)
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Sep 6, 2013 23:48
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Kekekela posted:re "leg raise" chat: I think you guys may be talking about two different exercises. Maybe...I'm referring to what's more commonly called leg swings: 
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Sep 7, 2013 00:03
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We had a D1 state champion wrestler teaching at my school for a couple of months, but his visa expired and he got kicked out of the country. gently caress everything and burn australia to the ground gently caress everything argh
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Sep 7, 2013 03:06
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Interesting boxing class today, it being the only one each week that lasts two hours and new in the schedule. Warmup: typical running around while waving your arms and whatnot. Fitness circuit: four stations, one for walking sideways holding kettlebells (!?!), one for bodyweight exercises, shadow boxing aaaand resistance band shadow boxing (yesss). Punch: three stations, speed bag, focus bag, heavy bag (with people taking turns doing mitts with a coach). I loving love our new focus bags. Cardio: rope skipping and a few cooldown shadow boxing rounds with a partner. Shower: we have a sauna in the new training place. Bonus for people who like black eye: while everyone else went to sauna you could put on a helmet and do rounds in the ring (1 minute, new partner hops in, 1 more minute, leave ring while the last guys stays and so on.) Anyway gyms have sparring only classes, right? Right. We could really use one. People who don't train with the competition teams get almost no sparring IMO, except a round or two at the end of the class when they are already spent, or by staying over time. That's been a "thing" at the club I go to for years. Not a problem for me really, when our fighters are prepping for a competition they invite me over to classes that aren't open for public so they can beat the poo poo out of me, because who wouldn't like beating me up, but I wonder if it's regular all over the globe for clubs that aren't 100% competition oriented (like I've said before, we're balancing between a money making fitness enterprise and a club that produces kickboxers and boxers) to be a bit stringent about letting average hobbyists punch and kick each other in the face. I can imagine several reasons why they would, though.
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Sep 7, 2013 16:52
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Ligur posted:
At my MMA focused gym there is one pure sparring class each week that's open to all members. Normally we spar at the end of each normal class for between three and six or seven rounds. Usually three minute rounds, sometimes four or five minutes. Intermediate and advanced groups naturally spar more and freer than beginner classes. That applies to us hobbyists. Those who compete do a lot of additional training, of course.
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Sep 7, 2013 17:08
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At my gym we have a rotating sparring schedule. All grappling classes the 1st week of each month are just sparring, the 2nd week of each month is MMA sparring, 3rd week is sambo, etc. There's also a separate team practice once a week for the "more serious" people, which is generally all sparring as well. Plus some portion of most normal classes will be sparring, or sparring-esque drills. I don't understand why anyone would train in a combat sport and not spar. It would be like "playing" basketball but only ever doing layup drills, rather than playing any games.
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Sep 7, 2013 17:13
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Senor P. posted:I think they're good for uchikomi / practicing throws but that's about it. Thanks for the reply. My biggest concern was with the lack of feed back. I was trying to think of ways to use it as part of a regular workout too.
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Sep 7, 2013 18:05
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Ligur posted:Interesting boxing class today, it being the only one each week that lasts two hours and new in the schedule. Spar every class or you're not kickboxing. You're just doing some cardio bag hitting. Doesn't mean spar 100% intensity each class; just some form of free drill where you can fail/succeed.
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Sep 8, 2013 05:41
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Syphilis Fish posted:Spar every class or you're not kickboxing. You're just doing some cardio bag hitting. Yeah that's what I think. I've previously posted on the different ways of sparring used by French kickboxers in this thread, like going with only touch-and-avoid-being-touched style, or very restricted techniques available, or doing it 50% or 75% speed/power etc. IMO something like that should be done like every class, for me it doesn't make sense to try and learn some techniques for an hour or two, and then just go home without trying them "live" in some manner. I friend who attended my fitness kickboxing classes last winter just told me the actual kickboxing classes she went to during the summer were exactly like my... fitness kickboxing classes. WTF. Exactly like you say, it's just cardio bag hitting or cardio drilling with a partner in that case.
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Sep 8, 2013 10:24
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Syphilis Fish posted:Spar every class or you're not kickboxing While I personally think any art that doesn't spar is absolutely worthless as a martial art, this is dumb. There are all sorts of boxers and kickboxers that don't spar every workout.
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Sep 8, 2013 14:21
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Remember, a ton of martial arts are so effective sparring would risk injury... or even death 
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Sep 8, 2013 17:43
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Ligur posted:I friend who attended my fitness kickboxing classes last winter just told me the actual kickboxing classes she went to during the summer were exactly like my... fitness kickboxing classes. WTF. Exactly like you say, it's just cardio bag hitting or cardio drilling with a partner in that case. I can't really speak for others, but the 'cardio kickboxing' classes my gym ran were pretty much normal classes with the sparring being after the class and totally being optional. Of course we were a hobbyist gym anyway. (A few guys had some fights but by and large we were a grappling gym with some striking on the side.) Surprise surprise it worked in getting more members (primarily housewives) to join. If the new members are happy, the old members who want to spar are happy, and the gym is doing good. I don't see how it is a problem. Ligur posted:Remember, a ton of martial arts are so effective sparring would risk injury... or even death
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Sep 8, 2013 18:09
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Senor P. posted:If the new members are happy, the old members who want to spar are happy, and the gym is doing good. I don't see how it is a problem. That's the thing, I'd rather have the gym in a great position for the customers than not having it at all (business rules 1-3: location, location location). Senor P. posted:You know I tend to just let those folks think whatever they want, there is little point in proving them wrong. You need to not let what they say and think get under your skin. I was posting that in jest 
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Sep 8, 2013 18:56
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I like the idea of doing something "live" every workout. Sparring or some variation, clinching, etc.
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Sep 9, 2013 00:49
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fatherdog posted:While I personally think any art that doesn't spar is absolutely worthless as a martial art, this is dumb. There are all sorts of boxers and kickboxers that don't spar every workout. Completely agree. There is nothing wrong with whole sessions of just pure technique work as long as you do sparring as well.
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Sep 9, 2013 01:31
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I've done some classes where it's all technique. Ages and ages hitting a bad or hitting mits or just slowly moving through progressions like entering with a leg kick and then throwing punches at qtr speed and contact so light we didn't even glove up. Its painstaking, punishing and time consuming and I thought it was bullshit when I first did it till it highlights some issues with my technique that got cleaned up. Next sparring session I'd cleared up a couple of areas I was having some trouble. Sparring is important, but its important to get the other poo poo right too.
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Sep 9, 2013 03:14
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So long as all my nights end with me and a big sweaty man spooning together I'm happy.
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Sep 9, 2013 03:48
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Hey fellas. First time poster, long-time reader. I started training muay thai just about a month ago and I'm really enjoying it. I don't have all techniques down yet, but enough punches and kicks to throw a few combos together and whatnot. Depending on who you partner up with, drilling can either be a breeze, or really intense (though I'm sure it's the same with most places). My question is: how long should someone train before sparring? I like the punchkick, but I want to see how all this stuff measures up in real time as opposed to drills.
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Sep 9, 2013 08:13
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Deathy McDeath posted:Hey fellas. First time poster, long-time reader. I think sparring starts pretty much straight away at my gym, in at least limited form. Light contact and controlled at first and often with some limitations, like just using hands or just clinching without knees or elbows or one guy using just hands and the other just kicks, just to get a feel for it. Then it builds up towards harder sparring with fewer limitations on techniques. I'd say it's pretty important to start out with some form of sparring early on, just do get a feel for how the dynamic changes when you aren't just preforming a set pattern but instead have to react to something unpredictable, even if it is really really light contact. DekeThornton fucked around with this message at 08:42 on Sep 9, 2013 |
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Sep 9, 2013 08:23
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DekeThornton posted:I think sparring starts pretty much straight away at my gym, in at least limited form. Light contact and controlled at first and often with some limitations, like just using hands or just clinching without knees or elbows or on guy using just hands and the other just kicks, just to get a feel for it. Then it builds up towards harder sparring with fewer limitations on techniques. I'd say it's pretty important to start out with some form of sparring early on, just do get a feel for how the dynamic changes when you aren't just preforming a set pattern but instead have to react to something unpredictable, even if it is really really light contact. Oh, I see. I guess we've done something like that before. Like, one guy did just teeps and pushes to get distance, and the other guy used whatever techiques (elbow block, grabbing the teep, etc) to close the distance and throw some stuff. We haven't done anything free-form, though.
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Sep 9, 2013 08:41
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