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paragon1 posted:That martial score This game must be hardcoded to make women all death machines. I've never seen a daughter end up with a martial score less than 12. It's really annoying since I'm plying for achievements right now and vanilla doesn't let women lead armies. 
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Aug 29, 2013 17:26
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Duckbag posted:I'm pretty sure they're only second cousins, although knowing this family they might also be fourth cousins and seventh cousins and so on.
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Aug 29, 2013 17:37
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Readingaccount posted:Told you guys Marco was a boss... man, a medium-sized NPC kingdom going up against the HRE and winning! Was the Empire in trouble or was he just that awesome (in which case he blitzed them I presume)? They didn't seem to be having too much trouble, but I didn't really pay close attention. Fog of war meant I didn't see exactly what happened. RabidWeasel posted:Best update, badass warrior queen (with nearly perfect traits apart from being shy) and hilariously dangerous inbreeding :iamafag: It's not really dangerous, since they're only second cousins. I'm fairly certain that even in real life, second cousins having children together isn't particularly dangerous (unless there's already a history of inbreeding in the family, possibly). Dibujante posted:The only proper thing to do is inbreed harder, go elective, and then marry your inbred offspring into rival houses while ensuring your "normal" offspring inherits. Since inbreeding is highly heritable, you can poison their families for generations. The trouble with this is that Inbred characters have a severe penalty to fertility (and health), so their chances of reproducing successfully are fairly low. It's possible that they're less severe in vanilla, though; I haven't checked. Anyway, I just want to let everyone know that updates might be slow for a while. This is partially because I'm busy moving across Canada to go to law school but mainly because I was not able to bring my desktop with me for said move. This means that until I get my new laptop, I'll only be able to finish updates that I've already taken the screenshots for. So there should be 2 or 3 updates trickling out over the next couple of weeks, at the end of which I will hopefully have my laptop. Naturally, I've just received an email telling me that there is a problem with processing my order for said laptop. 
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Aug 30, 2013 06:11
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Viscardus posted:It's not really dangerous, since they're only second cousins. I'm fairly certain that even in real life, second cousins having children together isn't particularly dangerous (unless there's already a history of inbreeding in the family, possibly). For those who might not know (it took me years to understand how genetics terms work), first cousins are descended from your parents' siblings, which is to say your aunts and uncles. Second cousins are descended from your grandparents' siblings, and so on up the tree. While too much inbreeding in too short a time is a really bad idea, in general second cousins have had enough outside genetic material worked into the mix that horrible defects won't show up. This is, of course, not always the case, and nowhere in world history has this been more true than in royalty. Any excuse to post Charles the Hexed again, who's probably history's most compelling argument against inbreeding. The Ancestry section there is of particular interest, but the whole page is a real horror show. Redeye Flight fucked around with this message at 08:37 on Aug 30, 2013 |
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Aug 30, 2013 08:33
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Viscardus posted:It's not really dangerous, since they're only second cousins. I'm fairly certain that even in real life, second cousins having children together isn't particularly dangerous (unless there's already a history of inbreeding in the family, possibly). Huh, I skipped a generation somehow, I thought they were first cousins. Not that it would make much difference since CK2 is very conservative when it comes to doling out the inbred trait. RabidWeasel fucked around with this message at 10:32 on Aug 30, 2013 |
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Aug 30, 2013 08:45
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Viscardus posted:Naturally, I've just received an email telling me that there is a problem with processing my order for said laptop. More or less par for the course, there would be something wrong if everything went like clockwork.
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Aug 30, 2013 08:47
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As far as the Paradox LP curse goes a delayed shipment is fairly light.
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Aug 30, 2013 22:07
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Chapter Twenty-Nine: Mothers and Daughters (1277-1285) Suspicion of Caterina's unorthodox behaviour in leading her own armies is eventually overcome by admiration for her bravery. Many take to calling her the Lioness of Sicily, though others prefer the simpler, masculine word, simply calling her the Lion.  It is with great joy that most receive the news that Caterina is finally pregnant with a child to unite the Sicilian and Neapolitan realms.  This joy is tempered only slightly when the child proves to be a daughter – the example of Caterina ensures that a daughter should be able to inherit the kingdoms as well as a son. Naturally, the child is named for her mother.  Not long after the birth of his daughter, Alessandro of Naples begins preparations for a new campaign in the north, this time against the Holy Roman Empire. There is no question that the possibility of avenging his late father is as strong in his mind as territorial ambition.  Unfortunately, he follows in his father's footsteps too well. He suddenly falls ill in the middle of the campaign, and only a few days later passes away.  The sudden death of the king causes immediate problems for Naples. The infant Caterina is crowned queen, but her mother is unable to exert full control over her daughter's kingdom, being resisted by most of the Neapolitan nobles. In a bid to further cement her hold on the union of the crowns, the elder Caterina agrees to marry Alessandro's younger brother and current heir to Naples.  Though the marriage to her brother-in-law should breach canon law, Caterina is able to acquire dispensation from the Pope. What began as a political marriage quickly becomes something more, though, as Caterina finds herself far more in love with Bartolomeo than she ever had been with his brother.  Many of the Neapolitan nobles do not react well to further Sicilian attempts to consolidate power in their kingdom. Though most are old enough to remember when the two kingdoms were one, more immediate power concerns lead many of them to rebel against the infant queen.  The rebellion is particularly strong in the southern part of the kingdom, and the ability of the capital to hold out against assault is questionable.  Caterina wastes no time in attempting to protect her daughter, once again leading her own army to relieve the siege of Salerno.  She wins an easy victory at Amalfi, cornering a rebel army while it tries to retreat.  While she is coming to the aid of her daughter, though, her mother is in trouble. Without Sicily to protect it, Athens has fallen once again to Caterina's uncle.  The intervention in Naples goes smoothly, though, and before long the Count of Taranto, the rebellion's leader, has surrendered.  As insurance against further rebellions, Caterina annexes the count's territory.  From the east comes more news of the Mongols, who have continued to expand west into Russian lands. The pagans have converted to Islam, and while they are no threat to Sicily, many wonder what consequences this could have.  Whether their leader converted out of some sincere belief or simply out of opportunism is unknown, but the thought of the Mongols and Turks uniting against the Christians of Europe is an unpleasant one.  In Sicily, at least, there is good news, as Caterina's son by Bartolomeo is born. While her husband wishes to name the boy after himself, she explains that he will be named Ruggiero, after her late father. The boy's birth raises questions, though. While he will no doubt be heir to Sicily, his sister is already enthroned as Queen of Naples. 
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Sep 11, 2013 03:31
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Viscardus posted:Chapter Twenty-Nine: Mothers and Daughters (1277-1285) Go Elective! This could never fail!
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Sep 11, 2013 03:51
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Whooooo sibling rivalry ahoy! Man if these two go to war, whoever started it should be titled "The Quarreler".
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Sep 11, 2013 03:57
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It's going to be a good score of years for the spies and assassins of Italy.
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Sep 11, 2013 06:17
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paragon1 posted:It's going to be a good score of years for the spies and assassins of Italy. Only second to the undertakers, gravediggers, and graverobbers of Italy.
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Sep 11, 2013 06:29
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 this is getting really drat good! I wish EU4 had as many "oh boy poo poo is going to go down now" random events like people randomly dying when they're 20.
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Sep 11, 2013 10:07
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Rejected Fate posted:Whooooo sibling rivalry ahoy! No, make love, not war! The answer is incest! Half-sibling/half-cousin parents shouldn't have too much of a chance of producing some idiot children, right?
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Sep 11, 2013 16:25
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I can't believe the Queen went and had a son for fear her daughter would die before her. I don't think it's legal to marry a half-sibling even in medieval times, though genetically (as far as I know/assume) it is no worse than marrying your aunt/niece.
Readingaccount fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Sep 11, 2013 |
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Sep 11, 2013 17:22
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Readingaccount posted:I can't believe the Queen went and had a son for fear her daughter would die before her. I don't think it's legal to marry a half-sibling even in medieval times, though genetically (as far as I know/assume) it is no worse than marrying your aunt/niece. Well, in this case, they're not only half siblings, but also first cousins. In other words, the two not only share one parent, they also share the same four grandparents. EDIT: I'm not opposed to the Egyptian Solution, though. Just pointing out its perils.
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Sep 11, 2013 17:36
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Nevets posted:No, make love, not war! Whoa! Back up, we're D'Hautvilles, not Lannisters!
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Sep 11, 2013 17:36
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Readingaccount posted:I can't believe the Queen went and had a son for fear her daughter would die before her. Really? She was a widow in her early twenties and only had one child. From both a roleplaying perspective and purely gamey perspective, remarrying makes perfect sense.
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Sep 11, 2013 17:52
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I suppose we could always switch to Elective and nominate her as successor, or enact Cognatic if your mod setup allows it. Let's get feminism started a few centuries early.
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Sep 11, 2013 18:58
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Patter Song posted:Well, in this case, they're not only half siblings, but also first cousins. In other words, the two not only share one parent, they also share the same four grandparents. If that is the case, then we should definitely do it. Viscardus, I ask you to bring this issue before the Curia Regis. It is essential that Italy be unified, genetics be damned.
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Sep 11, 2013 19:58
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Yeah, and make sure to include the whole spectrum of options... from elective to daggers through mod tinkering to allow absolute cognatic succession or half-sibling/cousin marriage to the vanilla of status quo. I can just smell the post count going up.
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Sep 11, 2013 20:27
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There is a good enough chance that Catarina will die anyway in the next 16 years and even if she survives, a female ruler means we can always press our claim. No real need to change our government.
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Sep 11, 2013 20:39
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e X posted:There is a good enough chance that Catarina will die anyway in the next 16 years There's a good opportunity for us to substantially increase that chance.
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Sep 11, 2013 20:51
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QuoProQuid posted:If that is the case, then we should definitely do it. All jokes aside, sibling marriage is not happening. It's just a bit too out there. Absolute cognatic succession is theoretically an option, but it would require exceptional circumstances. Remember that Sicily has only recently allowed women to inherit at all. Civilized Fishbot posted:There's a good opportunity for us to substantially increase that chance. Try to keep in mind that we are playing from the perspective of our ruler. It would take quite a lot to convince her to assassinate her own daughter (especially considering that she's not really the type to assassinate at all). I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, here, but I don't want people to be too disappointed that I'm not going to do things that would be very out of character for the ruler and/or the state as a whole.
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Sep 11, 2013 21:08
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Viscardus posted:Try to keep in mind that we are playing from the perspective of our ruler. It would take quite a lot to convince her to assassinate her own daughter (especially considering that she's not really the type to assassinate at all). Oh, I was joking. I didn't mean for/seriously expect the Queen to pull an Ivan the Terrible, however much it would help her son.
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Sep 11, 2013 21:21
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Civilized Fishbot posted:Oh, I was joking. I didn't mean for/seriously expect the Queen to pull an Ivan the Terrible, however much it would help her son. It's hard to know for sure, considering how many people do play CK2 that way. Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that; it's just not how I usually prefer to play, especially given that this is an LP.
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Sep 11, 2013 21:35
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Viscardus posted:It's hard to know for sure, considering how many people do play CK2 that way. Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that; it's just not how I usually prefer to play, especially given that this is an LP. Absolutely. It would be pretty difficult to add a narrative if the game really went along the lines of "and then she killed her daughter because beep boop she is a heartless political robot" for every character.
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Sep 11, 2013 21:44
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For the record, my "spies and assassins" line was referring to what the siblings would be doing once they inherited/finished the regency.
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Sep 11, 2013 21:59
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Who knows, in my games I've actually never had siblings try to kill each other for whatever reason. More distant kin, sure, but never that close. Should be interesting though.
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Sep 14, 2013 03:21
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Flesnolk posted:Who knows, in my games I've actually never had siblings try to kill each other for whatever reason. More distant kin, sure, but never that close. Should be interesting though. I've seen it. Sometimes a dispossessed heir will get all stabby if he's got the traits for it. I think Envious, Ambitious, or any of the more violent traits are all warning signs. You can try to buy them off with a title or something, but often as not that just makes them more dangerous. You can't kill them because that makes you a kinslayer, and if you get them to stop the plot, they'll just try again later. Even in exile they can still be dangerous, so your best bet is usually to find some excuse to arrest them and let them stew in prison. In this case though, we have an issue where the country is split in two so if things get bloody, our options are very limited. Just another reason it pays to have a good spymaster.
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Sep 14, 2013 23:49
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Yeah, it's better to stay in character, I'm just sad to miss out on all the ethical discussions except murder (too cliche in CK) before the mainstream carries the day (unless some sort of train forms). Duckbag: It only counts as kinslaying if Readingaccount fucked around with this message at 10:17 on Sep 15, 2013 |
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Sep 15, 2013 00:01
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Chapter Thirty: Betrayal (1286-1299) In 1277, the usurper Emperor Roberto dies, his realm having remained surprisingly stable in recent years.  His son and successor, Riccardo, is more at home in church than on the throne.  Sicily has also been stable for quite some time, despite the troubles in Naples. Few would openly challenge the warrior queen. Some would defy her more covertly, however, and the royal court is shocked to discover a plot by the Queen's aunt by marriage to have the crown prince poisoned in the hopes of having her son the Duke of Calabria seize the throne after Caterina's death.  Flora and her co-conspirators are quickly imprisoned while an outraged Caterina decides what to do with them.  After much deliberation, Caterina decides that the attempted assassination of her son cannot be excused or forgiven. She sentences her aunt to death.  The incident changes the queen, and she becomes far more protective of her son, intent on grooming him to rule personally.  For the most part, the next few years are quiet, with most of the queen's efforts spent on domestic issues.  There is some talk of another invasion of Greece, but this effectively ends when Caterina's mother dies.  In the end, it is Sicily that must defend itself... and from none other than Caterina's own daughter.  Under the influence of her Neapolitan advisors, the younger Caterina has ordered an invasion of Sicily, ostensibly to reclaim Taranto and the others lands taken during the civil war. Her mother wastes no time in meeting the Neapolitan army in battle.  Unsurprisingly, Caterina scores a major victory, effectively destroying the first Neapolitan army and clearing the way to Salerno.  There she lays siege to the city, hoping to quickly end the war.  Salerno is taken fairly quickly, but the younger Caterina is nowhere to be found.  Shortly after the end of the siege, though, a second Neapolitan army appears, this one having assembled in the kingdom's Northern Italian territories. Unlike before, the Sicilians are notably outnumbered.  And yet it makes no difference. The warrior queen leads her army to victory once again.  With this, Naples is broken and the young queen surrenders to her mother. The elder Caterina is naturally upset with her daughter, but the younger queen blames the corrupting influence of her advisors and promises to remain faithful to her mother's wishes in the future.  This is proven to be a lie only a few months later, when Caterina the Young is married to King Bruno of Nicaea against her mother's wishes.  Bruno is a powerful ally for the young queen, but the man himself is of highly questionable character, with some going so far as to consider him a madman. The Boccanegras themselves are an upstart family with roots in the Republic of Genoa, and it clear that Bruno wants Naples to be another jewel in his family's crown.  With her daughter having betrayed her, the elder Caterina turns to her son Ruggiero. It is clear that if the two kingdoms are going to be reunited, it will have to be by force. Fortunately, the young prince has taken after his mother in this regard. 
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Sep 16, 2013 06:37
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What's the trait that's got a blue shield with a guy's face on it? I don't recognise that one from when I've played. I know the bullet in the green heart is "Fertile"...
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Sep 16, 2013 08:49
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Flesnolk posted:What's the trait that's got a blue shield with a guy's face on it? I don't recognise that one from when I've played. I know the bullet in the green heart is "Fertile"... Actually, the green heart with the bullet is "Quick." As for the blue one, I think it's Ugly.
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Sep 16, 2013 08:55
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Flesnolk posted:What's the trait that's got a blue shield with a guy's face on it? I don't recognise that one from when I've played. I know the bullet in the green heart is "Fertile"... Actually, that one is "Quick". Like Genius, but with +3 across the board instead of +5. The guy that looks like  is a CK2+ thing. It means "Young". No idea what it does, I prefer the base game.
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Sep 16, 2013 08:56
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I thought Quick was the one with a green heart and a little star, while a diamond in green heart is Attractive and a brain is Genius? Or does CK2+ change that? Because in VIET, green heart + bullet is Fertile.
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Sep 16, 2013 09:10
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That's probably VIET's doing, since neither vanilla nor CK2+ has a Fertile trait.
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Sep 16, 2013 09:18
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Veryslightlymad posted:Actually, that one is "Quick". Like Genius, but with +3 across the board instead of +5. Young is -1 to all the regular stats, +2 (I think?) health and 10% fertility, also negative relationship modifiers both ways with old people.
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Sep 16, 2013 10:09
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Flesnolk posted:I thought Quick was the one with a green heart and a little star It is now, it used to be a bullet. I don't remember when it changed, but Visc is using a quite old version by now.
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Sep 16, 2013 10:33
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Ruggiero already has a claim to Naples, right? We might be able to take it if we blitz it quickly and safely with mercenaries (the Queen appears to be a conservative spender), shop for allies or slit Bruno's throat. Any other ideas? I was thinking afterwards we could fabricate a claim on some county on the shore of Africa between two muslim powers, holy war the neighboring emirate we don't have a truce with, throw our daughter there (or keep it for ourselves or a second son, since she already has quite the court in the east) and expand in the other direction for colonies and to spread the faith when we're not busy in Italy. Readingaccount fucked around with this message at 11:37 on Sep 16, 2013 |
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Sep 16, 2013 11:28
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