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Vatek posted:If you don't think the mosconi/loco being far, far superior to basically every other weapon in the game was an issue I don't even know what to tell you. Put 20 points anywhere into Tech. Equip an M16 or a .308. If you still think that nothing comes even close to the Mosconi then I don't know what to tell you.
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Sep 24, 2013 02:50
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fennesz posted:Put 20 points anywhere into Tech. Equip an M16 or a .308. If you still think that nothing comes even close to the Mosconi then I don't know what to tell you. He's talking pre-nerf Mosconi. The gun that was killing snipers across the map on Watchdogs.
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Sep 24, 2013 02:53
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The .308 doesn't blast through stacks of SWAT at close range and requires you to actually aim precisely in order to get headshots. Pre-patch, the M16 had lovely accuracy and recoil, bad ammo efficiency, but was really good at spraying fire at mid-range. Now it's a bit too good and Goldfarb has said he's probably tamping it down next patch.
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Sep 24, 2013 02:54
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Technical Analysis posted:Two sentries with shields shooting two shields is the cutest. They think they're helping I would spec into sentries immediately if you could move them around and give them ammo and hugs.  Or attach wheels to them!
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Sep 24, 2013 03:01
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fennesz posted:Put 20 points anywhere into Tech. Equip an M16 or a .308. If you still think that nothing comes even close to the Mosconi then I don't know what to tell you. I should have mentioned that I meant the pre-nerf mosconi. The .308 and the current M16 are great but they sure as hell don't compare to the pre-nerf Mosconi. Vatek fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Sep 24, 2013 |
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Sep 24, 2013 03:04
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The mosconi is still great, just bring the bronco as a backup for medium-long range work.
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Sep 24, 2013 03:24
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Bocc Kob posted:I would spec into sentries immediately if you could move them around and give them ammo and hugs.
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Sep 24, 2013 03:48
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I've been going Seinfeld as my primary and my secondary varies wildly based on missions, fucks given, and beers imbibed. Usually smgs though since I recently picked up the increased fire rate in the ghost tree.
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Sep 24, 2013 03:50
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I stealth in iron man armor all the time, with maxed out visibility bars. With 20 points into ghost, wearing heavy armor is such an insignificant disadvantage that I can do bank heists or framing frame or jewelry store in my tank cos-play.
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Sep 24, 2013 03:52
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Yeah, if folks want to try stealth in suits, I'm 100% down for that and will get down with it, but otherwise, I'm going to stealth with my full enforcer armor 100% of the time. I bring a silenced deagle to take care of anything that goes awry but otherwise the key to it all is staying the hell out of sight, and if you do get sighted, react quickly, and always keep your team in the loop.
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Sep 24, 2013 04:01
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Vatek posted:I should have mentioned that I meant the pre-nerf mosconi. The .308 and the current M16 are great but they sure as hell don't compare to the pre-nerf Mosconi. The .308 was right just on par with the pre-nerf Mosconi in the right hands. The Mosconi was just a lot easier to use. Technical Analysis posted:I've been going Seinfeld as my primary and my secondary varies wildly based on missions, fucks given, and beers imbibed. Usually smgs though since I recently picked up the increased fire rate in the ghost tree. I don't know how you use that thing. Point blank body shots don't even kill shields 
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Sep 24, 2013 04:07
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Vatek posted:If you don't think the mosconi/loco being far, far superior to basically every other weapon in the game was an issue I don't even know what to tell you. how does it feel to have wrong opinions? Anyway they really need to fix shotguns and stop sucking off assault rifles. Shotguns make up a huge portion of the weapon selections and have one whole class with dedicated perks just for them. Their idea of balance seems to be throwing a spastic armed hissy fit and going WELL gently caress YOU NERFED MOSKONY BY 99.9 PERCENT, IDIOT than going on facebook and laughing about how they totally dissed those scrubs who play their game. Motherfucker fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Sep 24, 2013 |
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Sep 24, 2013 04:16
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John Murdoch posted:Another new trend in pubs is the host calling for stealth...then bringing heavy armor but still acting like he's in a suit and pretty much immediately loving everything up. Like, I'm cool with "try to stealth, but bring the big guns 'cause we'll probably screw up!" but don't call for full stealth unless you mean it. < These guys were all level 50+. Vatek posted:No, I mean cranking off rounds at 15-20 meters which is a bad habit that pre-nerf shotguns taught everybody. I use the saiga out to about 5 meters. Beyond that I use my pistol or SMG. Shumagorath fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Sep 24, 2013 |
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Sep 24, 2013 04:22
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I sometimes wear my iron-suit stealthing on pro missions like framing frame, I mean I'm already at high visibility for having my decent primaries out anyway so why not. as long as you have a suit scouting first and you stick to 'hot' rooms (rooms with broken windows and broken cameras that have already been cleared and would alert guards if they enter) and keep the guards from raising a page where nobody can get to them and don't play like you're a ninja than you're fine.
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Sep 24, 2013 04:28
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Really the thing that low visibility does for you is give you extra gently caress-up protection, as well as very occasionally opening up certain routes for you (getting to/from the bank manager's desk undetected). Wearing heavy gear means that unless you have a hard corner to back around immediately, bumbling into a guard means you're getting detected, period. And with how the game handles LOS, visibility, and desync, that might not even help. If you're not the kind of person to bumble into guards, then it doesn't matter so much!  Shumagorath posted:I joined a lobby of guys in full Iron Man suits who wanted to stealth Ukrainian. When they walked by the back window and immediately alerted the guard at the camera controls it was all a blur of profanity until the host kicked me for saying "Why would you think you were stealthy - you're wearing a loving tank". I've saved a handful of stealth Ukrainian runs by instantly dominating the camera guard through the window because pubbies are dumb enough to try and pick the lock as they watch his alert meter fill up faster than they can pick. Pubbies still seem to struggle to understand that if something has a red ! for more than a second, you have hosed up and it's time to go loud or reset. Or if you can hear the camera guard, behind his locked door, call something in, it doesn't matter how sneaky you thought you were, you've been busted. Or to just not do basically anything right in front of an active camera. Apparently there's been a rush of newbies as of late which is probably what's contributing to it. I'm usually willing to carry a low level team through some stuff, even on lower difficulties, just for the fun of it, but I don't know where this "hey guise let's stealth *runs straight into a gangster in the nightclub and dies*" business comes from.
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Sep 24, 2013 04:54
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fennesz posted:I don't know how you use that thing. Point blank body shots don't even kill shields If I'm point blank with a shield I'm punching it and feeding it some buckshot. John Murdoch posted:Apparently there's been a rush of newbies as of late which is probably what's contributing to it. I'm usually willing to carry a low level team through some stuff, even on lower difficulties, just for the fun of it, but I don't know where this "hey guise let's stealth *runs straight into a gangster in the nightclub and dies*" business comes from. I don't know where it comes from but I'm loving it. I don't even need to troll pubbies when they troll themselves with their own incompetence.
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Sep 24, 2013 05:00
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Technical Analysis posted:I don't know where it comes from but I'm loving it. I don't even need to troll pubbies when they troll themselves with their own incompetence.
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Sep 24, 2013 05:06
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What's the next best weapon for stripping down and making stealthy? I'm using the CAR-4 and am just looking for alternatives.
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Sep 24, 2013 05:14
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Yeah at this point I just go "Absolutely  " and sit around waiting till they gently caress it up so I can do it properly.
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Sep 24, 2013 05:14
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Zeruel posted:What's the next best weapon for stripping down and making stealthy? I'm using the CAR-4 and am just looking for alternatives. The mosconi has two mods for it, but I think they nerfed it in every single way.
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Sep 24, 2013 05:15
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Motherfucker posted:The mosconi has two mods for it, but I think they nerfed it in every single way. After update 11 the mosconi is always high vis even with both mods. Or at least I'm sure it was when I last checked.
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Sep 24, 2013 05:22
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Motherfucker posted:The mosconi has two mods for it, but I think they nerfed it in every single way. The mods never affected visibility. The mosconi is perfectly fine now it fills a role, and it does it well with the right perks.
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Sep 24, 2013 05:23
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Enforcer is still boss. I still own SWAT with the Macaroni and smack Shields around like little bitches with aced Iron Man. The saw is great, and while I really think they should consider moving it out of a primary slot, it nets a lot of cash, speeds up some runs, and kills Dozers dead. The loco nerf is the biggest complaint. Since Enforcers are kind of pigeon-holed into shotguns and have to give up the primary slot with regularity, having the Loco as a solid backup was nice. Now I run with the Para most of the time. I'd really like to go Enforcer/Tech for C4 and Bulletproof, but I enjoy stealth a lot so I like to keep 10-12 points in Mastermind and the rest in Ghost for mobility/stealth, etc.
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Sep 24, 2013 05:28
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Motherfucker posted:how does it feel to have wrong opinions? This got posted onto Twitter in rebuttal to the notion that shotguns need to be "fixed." It's a guy running Watchdogs Day 2 Overkill on the current build, staying outdoors nearly the whole time, running the Saiga and Locomotive--you know, those guns that just aren't that good such that the latter needs a buff?--and earning 91 kills with 65% headshots: http://youtu.be/sPuwSoGGUvs The most unbelievable part for me is around the 5:50 mark where he just obliterates multiple waves of tan SWATs with minimal effort thanks to the fact that he's mostly specced himself Enforcer along with Technician. I simply can't fathom seeing how that would be done without shotguns and without perks. You're certainly not likely to kill multiple tans on single shots with any AR.
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Sep 24, 2013 05:32
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If you're sitting around crying about how much 'shotguns suck now' then it's probably time you realized that the problem isn't the shotguns, it's you. I use them all the time as an enforcer and almost always take highest kills. Yes they're not for long-range shooting, that's why I bring my long-barrel mp5 (which is also a really great under-appreciated gun). And the realism thing is the spergiest, stupidest argument. The game is not realistic, it features men getting shot literally hundreds of times and all that happens is they stumble and fall down for a bit. Getting all huffy that shotguns 'aren't realistic' when your heister is tossing 600lbs bags of gold around is just goofy.
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Sep 24, 2013 05:37
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Public Reprimand posted:After update 11 the mosconi is always high vis even with both mods. Or at least I'm sure it was when I last checked. Gun visibility is currently bugged and is getting fixed next patch. The snub nose Bronco has the same problem. IIRC, Goldfarb said some value was outright inverted. Not sure why the CAR-4 didn't get hit by it.
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Sep 24, 2013 05:45
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I wish they'd revert the Berlusconi visibility changes; i used to love going low vis and flanking cops. Felt like I was playing as a Scout from TF2. It seems like the only primary you can low vis with now is the CAR-4.
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Sep 24, 2013 05:48
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UberJumper posted:The mods never affected visibility. Yeah, it did at least at some point because you can run a low-vis build with it on the woefully unpatched console version. Also, pro-tip: if you're trying to stealth a bank heist, better to smash any exterior cameras before popping the security room guard so you can use them to draw guards out. The security room guard apparently needs to be alive for the guards to come out and check on broken cameras.
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Sep 24, 2013 05:58
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redweird posted:I wish they'd revert the Berlusconi visibility changes; i used to love going low vis and flanking cops. Felt like I was playing as a Scout from TF2. It seems like the only primary you can low vis with now is the CAR-4.
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Sep 24, 2013 06:08
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:If you're sitting around crying about how much 'shotguns suck now' then it's probably time you realized that the problem isn't the shotguns, it's you.  I'm so glad we made shotguns into worthless airsoft weapons, I felt scared and threatened that my beloved tacticool assault rifles weren't the last word in weaponry as they rightfully should be. I'm sure the npcs would appreciate the balance changes more if they didn't than turn around and turn the m-16 into a gauss rifle. Motherfucker fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Sep 24, 2013 |
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Sep 24, 2013 06:18
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Motherfucker posted:
jesus christ, the shotguns are still viable and the m-16 is getting a damage reduction next patch.
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Sep 24, 2013 06:25
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Just let him work through his tears, man.
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Sep 24, 2013 06:30
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I only ever use my modded Reinfeld as MM/Ghost and still get highest kill counts when playing with friends.  Saiga is actually awesome now too. Our Enforcer still wrecks every special ever with the mosconi. A lot of the complaints about shotguns is that they are no longer the best choice of gun anymore. Now they're just as good as the rest.The Compact-5 though is just absurdly good. 
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Sep 24, 2013 06:38
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Motherfucker posted:
Actually at the time I rarely used anything other then the crosskill/bronco, both of which were completely unaffected by the patch. They've already said multiple times that the m16 buff is unbalanced and they're fixing it so I'm confused as to what you want here? If you seriously can't play without the pre-patch uber shotguns then maybe it's time to step away from shooters for awhile cause holy poo poo you must suck.
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Sep 24, 2013 06:47
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:Actually at the time I rarely used anything other then the crosskill/bronco, both of which were completely unaffected by the patch. They've already said multiple times that the m16 buff is unbalanced and they're fixing it so I'm confused as to what you want here? If you seriously can't play without the pre-patch uber shotguns then maybe it's time to step away from shooters for awhile cause holy poo poo you must suck. At least let the Enforcers have a secondary weapon specialty. it sucks having all your poo poo be centered around shotguns but they aren't so hot. I love the loco but I've been forced to only use the Mosconi lately, since it's the only shotgun that is worth anything.
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Sep 24, 2013 06:57
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Man, I'm glad I put all my points into Ghost. Running around in a Light Ballistic vest shooting things with my tiny MP5 is the best
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Sep 24, 2013 07:15
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I've started switching between the M-16 and reinfeld depending on how open the map is. Melee + headshot still takes out a tan and you get the added bonus of seeing them backflip. 
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Sep 24, 2013 07:22
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Peruser posted:Man, I'm glad I put all my points into Ghost. Running around in a Light Ballistic vest shooting things with my tiny MP5 is the best I'm not saying it's perfect but the class balance is getting good now. MMs have good healing and crowd control; enforcers can stand up to assault waves and keep their team firing; techs have a lot versatility with charges, drill skills, and the armor buff (if OK unfucks it); and ghosts can stealth or live through a standup fight with their silencer skills and armor penetration when poo poo goes south.
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Sep 24, 2013 07:23
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I decided to give up on bulletproof ace in order to get the first level of flashbang tolerance because I am tired of stumbling around blind for 10 minutes and filled with lead while I wait for my eyes readjust themselves. Overkill must have taken cues from counter strike players and made their cops chuck these things at every opportunity that I'm willing to suggest flashbang tolerance as a must for all builds.
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Sep 24, 2013 07:25
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:If you're sitting around crying about how much 'shotguns suck now' then it's probably time you realized that the problem isn't the shotguns, it's you. +1 This Jesus, people are really freaking about the shotgun nerf? The only thing that changed is that I cannot one shot tan guys on the other side of the street  It still kills very well just aim in the general direction of their head
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