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The only reason I called her a Mary Sue is because I thought that meant she felt like a fan character. Edit: Of course, don't take that to mean I don't like her. I enjoy her character, and her dialogue is well-written. All I was saying is that she has a lot of traits that characters in fanfiction have. Snix fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Oct 26, 2013 |
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Oct 26, 2013 00:57
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But aren't those traits more belonging to the main character in a story? Heroes were pretty special snowflakes well before FanFiction.net was ever a thing.
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Oct 26, 2013 01:18
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An additional protagonist introduced suddenly with a large amount of distinctive and convenient details will set off some warnings, certainly, but it's a false alarm in this case.
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Oct 26, 2013 01:28
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Terper posted:Case 2 full case spoiler: Oh man everyone do yourself a favor and click on this after you beat Case 2, it is incredible. Oh Ace Attorney you're so ridiculous and I love you. I think what actually happened was that L'Belle left the key on Tenma to help in framing him for the crime, and then a bleary Tenma swallowed it, probably not realizing that the forbidden chamber had already been breached. The image of L'Belle forcing it down his throat is really funny though.
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Oct 26, 2013 01:59
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Amppelix posted:Heartily agreed. In fact, Gigi put my thoughts of it on paper pretty well here (again, case 3 day 1 spoilers, do not read): http://allmarios.tumblr.com/post/65068279108/ace-attorney-5-spoilers-i-got-mad-on-twitter-and Another odd thing about Case 3 is that I immediately pegged Aristotle as the killer, but the game really sold the misdirection to the point that I honestly thought Hugh was involved at least in part up until the empty balcony came to light [Major Case 3 Spoilers above] Chaltab fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Oct 26, 2013 |
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Oct 26, 2013 02:00
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Amppelix posted:Heartily agreed. In fact, Gigi put my thoughts of it on paper pretty well here (again, case 3 day 1 spoilers, do not read): http://allmarios.tumblr.com/post/65068279108/ace-attorney-5-spoilers-i-got-mad-on-twitter-and CASE 3 SPOILERS: Oh thank god it gets better at some point. I was this close to shutting the game off permanently when I got to that part. Like loving nails on a chalkboard, that was. It really bothered the gently caress out of me because god drat that was just handled so badly. Ugh. Case 3 has been pretty good so far but that more or less shunted it to the bottom of the list. Nice going, Capcom. gently caress, what's wrong with me.  Chaltab posted:
MAJOR CASE 3 SPOILER: Well, okay, now that I think about it I can forgive the whole "Robin's a chick" thing. I admit the whole "swinging between hypermasculine and hyperfeminine" thing does actually happen IRL to a degree - obviously Robin having to hide her gender all the time would have been stressful on her, and she's gonna take the chance to go hyperfeminine while still being used to acting hypermasculine. She'll level out with time, but still...that stage is always insanely loving annoying. I do like that she doesn't look so anxious and worried anymore though.  Maybe I'm just hypersensitive to these things. Maybe.
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Oct 26, 2013 02:56
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Going in having heard about how hard to swallow Blackquill is I immediately started hearing all his lines in Robin Atkin Downes bowie impression from regular show and it's PREFECT. I'm pretty sure that at the least the translators were fully aware of what a dork they were making him sound like and it's pretty fun. It's nice to have a rival/antagonist we can actually LOATHE again after the last 3 or so were more or less on your side for most of the game. Kind of annoyed that the cases are so dumbed down compared to Investigations 2 (seriously case 2, you couldn't keep the obvious murderers identity a secret for at most half an investigation phase?), but AAI2 being the best game in the series is a Bad Videogame Opinion I talk about too much already so I should probably just try to enjoy the game for what it is instead of comparing everything
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Oct 26, 2013 03:53
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Slight Case 3 Spoilers: Why does no one recognize/mention anything about LaMiror when I present the stage costume? It sucks that Apollo and Phoenix don't say anything about it
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Oct 26, 2013 03:57
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Pastrymancy posted:Slight Case 3 Spoilers: Why does no one recognize/mention anything about LaMiror when I present the stage costume? It sucks that Apollo and Phoenix don't say anything about it Of all people, I would've expected either Apollo or Klavier to say something about it.
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Oct 26, 2013 04:15
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ChaosArgate posted:Of all people, I would've expected either Apollo or Klavier to say something about it. I really don't get it. Did Juniper plagiarize the costume design?
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Oct 26, 2013 04:17
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HelloWinter posted:I really don't get it. Did Juniper plagiarize the costume design? Well they do seem to be teaching the students to cheat in the name of results...
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Oct 26, 2013 04:19
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HelloWinter posted:I really don't get it. Did Juniper plagiarize the costume design? Yeah, it's the exact same costume as a central witness to a case they worked on. Bugs me that they don't throw in a cameo to that if they bothered having Klavier show up
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Oct 26, 2013 04:20
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There, finally finished up case 2. The second day in court was definitely a lot better, and it wrapped up pretty well. I really didn't expect Mayor Tenma to actually be the Nine Tails wrestler. I also thought the little sequence of putting together the conclusive evidence was nice. I'm rather looking forward to case 3, now.
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Oct 26, 2013 04:42
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Scher posted:There, finally finished up case 2. The second day in court was definitely a lot better, and it wrapped up pretty well. I really didn't expect Mayor Tenma to actually be the Nine Tails wrestler. I also thought the little sequence of putting together the conclusive evidence was nice. I'm rather looking forward to case 3, now.
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Oct 26, 2013 04:52
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I just got this and so far the opening alone has been pretty amazing. I'm happy how they were able to take things from Apollo Justice without.. well, there are a lot of things going on in this but so far it seems awesome.
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Oct 26, 2013 04:56
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Bongo Bill posted:My only problem with the portrayal of Athena is the implication that the ability to identify someone's emotions by the sound of their voice is some kind of superpower, which isn't really a problem with her per se. Rather than identifying emotions being a superpower per se, I just assumed she's simply exceptionally good at it. I don't see the problem.
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Oct 26, 2013 05:16
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Technically she just has a really good sense of hearing. She hears discord in their voices and Widget apparently interprets the emotions that are causing it. I do find it hilarious how Widget is this super-high-tech holgram-computer gizmo that makes more sense in the English version's 2026 setting than in the more contemporary Japanese version, but the (Case 3 Spoiler) the Themis Legal Academy case hinges on a tape recording with audio lifted from a DVD Chaltab fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Oct 26, 2013 |
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Oct 26, 2013 05:47
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Chaltab posted:I do find it hilarious how Widget is this super-high-tech holgram-computer gizmo that makes more sense in the English version's 2026 setting than in the more contemporary Japanese version, but the (Case 3 Spoiler) the Themis Legal Academy case hinges on a tape recording with audio lifted from a DVD Case 3 spoiler Themis Legal Academy truly lives in the Dark Ages of the Law.
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Oct 26, 2013 05:52
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I'm on Day 2 of Case 2. The general consensus seems to be that Case 2 is a slog to get through, but I'm actually really enjoying it so far. While it does feel long, it doesn't feel to me that it drags on. And I'm amazed that Simon Blackquill's argument of Mayor Tenga being posses by Tenga Taro was taken more seriously than Apollo's "the killer wore a Tenga Taro suit and flew out the window with some contraption." Amazed in the best possible way, of course.
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Oct 26, 2013 06:01
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I didn't think Case 2 was a slog at any point. In fact I had a blast all the way through. Anyone who hates Case 2 hates fun  Case 3 on the other hand, was pretty miserable, especially during the bit with Robin's gender (which in its defense could have been a lot worse, but the writers aren't getting a "congratulations you didn't do as badly as I expected you to" medal from me), the overbearing ~anime friendship~ tropes, and basically the entire end. The only positive thing I can say about the end is that they start to play the song from Apollo Justice Case 3 but mercifully fade out after the first few bars. Although I did like how incredibly creepy Professor Means' character design was and his breakdown near the end where he busts out the chalkboard and goes crazy was hilariously insane. Everything with the statue explanation at the very end was just plain embarrassing though. Case 3's have always been the weakest part of every Ace Attorney game and I sincerely think that out of all the bad Case 3's, Turnabout Academy might just be tied with Turnabout Big Top from JFA.
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Oct 26, 2013 06:19
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I disagree completely. The case has perhaps the best use of misdirection in the series since Matt Engard, a much more sensible motive and method than case two, and honestly other than Hugh screaming to the heavens in the resolution, the friendship stuff was far from overbearing. There was a legitimate misunderstanding and a serious betrayal of trust, but they got over it like friends do. The biggest problem is Robin's gender, and that certainly could have been handled better. But it wasn't a disaster. While there were a lot of great parts to case two, I do feel that the localization made it uncomfortable in the since that you have a bunch of Americans and a British murderer with delusions of being a samurai mocking the superstitions of a bunch of Japanese immigrants. I'm sure it made more sense in Japanese, but the localization just felt off.
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Oct 26, 2013 06:36
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Just started case 3 and I have an irrational hatred for the purple-blue-something-like-that haired person whose name I cannot recall at the moment because the school setting and his character design strongly remind me of Valkyria Chronicles II, which I have a more rational hatred for. Barely into the first trial so I can't comment much on the case, but case 2 was a thing of beauty in every way. There were Karate Kid and Ric Flair references. I cannot ask for anything more than that from a game.
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Oct 26, 2013 07:12
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Case 3, Day 2 Trial: I have just hit the  part of the trial Oh my god this is one of the more...memorable meltdowns 
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Oct 26, 2013 07:25
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This sums up my thoughts pretty well. Once I acknowledged that the game is going to be across the board ridiculous, just basking in it made the game so much more enjoyable. It's not a realistic legal system, but the cases are so fun. I think most of the plot "holes" are actually covered really well in later cases. This is, hands down, my favorite Ace Attorney if only because I think all five cases are super solid, unlike the past games. (I also think the final case stuff just BARELY edges out Trials and Tribulations, but I suspect that'll be controversial.)
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Oct 26, 2013 07:28
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I'll tell you one thing about this game, I can't just examine everything everywhere like an OCD madman and that was weird at first. Otherwise this game owns hard, I'm on case 3 and I think it holds up just fine with the other ones.
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Oct 26, 2013 07:31
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A cool drat horse posted:I'll tell you one thing about this game, I can't just examine everything everywhere like an OCD madman and that was weird at first. I can't investigate Charley and tell him he's a good boy. Worst change since removing the ability to present profiles to people for idle gossip.
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Oct 26, 2013 07:38
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I thought Case 3 was going to be dumb with the characters and setting, but it is consistantly turning things around and making characters who seem like (or just are) annoying and making them absolutely fantastic. I just about died laughing when Hugh's absolutely fantastic emotion cross examination came up, and then Means going instantly from cool, calculated and very dangerous Damon Gant-style manipulator into Greek Mr. T was just In short: BEST CASE 3 IN THE SERIES SO FAR, MAAAAAAAN! e: Also I am listening to the Allegro cross examination theme and this bass is giving me some serious Guile theme vibes. Everything goes with Guile's theme, especially beating the truth out of witnesses 
nftyw fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Oct 26, 2013 |
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Oct 26, 2013 08:25
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I just found out this existed, why didn't Capcom advertise this more? I can't download this fast enough.
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Oct 26, 2013 08:34
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Pollyanna posted:MAJOR CASE 3 SPOILER: Well, okay, now that I think about it I can forgive the whole "Robin's a chick" thing. I admit the whole "swinging between hypermasculine and hyperfeminine" thing does actually happen IRL to a degree - obviously Robin having to hide her gender all the time would have been stressful on her, and she's gonna take the chance to go hyperfeminine while still being used to acting hypermasculine. She'll level out with time, but still...that stage is always insanely loving annoying. Man everybody's talking about these giant case 3 spoilers. I actually kind of liked Robin's character. I definitely see how it reads to people as a weird gender essentialism thing, but I interpreted it more charitably as a case of someone who's got a conflicted gender identity and doesn't know how to reconcile it. When she's posing as a boy, she feels that she has to silence her inner femininity, which is why she has those conflicted feelings of shame and fear and joy and excitement during the Mood Matrix sequence, but once she's outed she swings hard the other way because acting like an over-the-top girly girl is the only way she knows to express her repressed femininity. Neither the shouty shonen protagonist nor the twirly, vaguely coquettish valley girl are the 'real' Robin, but her gender insecurities mean those are the only tools she has for self-expression until she can find a way to craft her own identity. It's all rendered in over-the-top anime stereotypes, but I think the underlying character dynamic is surprisingly sympathetic and relatable especially considering the spotty track record these kinds of games have with gender issues. I'm also not sure whether to read her as a ciswoman whose parents insisted on raising her as a boy for what seems to be an utterly baffling non-reason like the game implies or as a transwoman, which would seem to a better fit for her backstory and actions. I know she has a line about being a girl in body and spirit or whatever, but I'm not convinced that should be taken at face value and even though the game probably intends the former interpretation authorial intent doesn't necessarily matter here. Opposing Farce fucked around with this message at 11:09 on Oct 26, 2013 |
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Oct 26, 2013 11:02
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Wish the game would stop giving me the answers. In the second trial of case 3 and working out how the body might have been moved apart from dropping it or using a crane, "There is a way to lower a body! It could be that thing that ties the art room and the stage together!"  I'm far enough into the game that I sort of expect to be doing the work myself, but so far I've been handed the location of every contradiction in testimonies by Athena's inner monologue, and she works out all the puzzles for me too. Usually I've got to the answer just before her, but it's getting on my nerves now.
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Oct 26, 2013 13:39
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Opposing Farce posted:Man everybody's talking about these giant case 3 spoilers. CASE 3 DAY 2 SPOILERS: Yeah, I think this is basically it. I'm kind of on the fence about it: on the one hand, the wild switching between hypermasculine and hyperfeminine is really annoying and seems like a caricature due to the way Ace Attorney characters are written, but that effect does happen in real life to an extent and her circumstances make it pretty understandable why that would happen. I'm not totally happy with it and I wouldn't say it's handled great, but they probably did the best they could - like, I mean, they did well considering they're Capcom. But as it stands right now, it's more like an affect or something. It comes off as very unnatural and almost offensive if taken the wrong way. It would have helped immensely if Robin had a bit more character development by the end of Day 1 or the beginning of Day 2, and started leveling out to a more natural state. That would show that she's come to terms with the whole gender oppression and expression thing and avoided the whole "minstrelsy" vibe it gives off. As it stands right now, it's more like an affect or something than natural, well-adjusted behavior. But then again, these things do take time, and it's understandable why she'd act that way, so I'm willing to forgive it. "Good potential, but needs improvement - C+"  The important bit is that she seems less stressed and anxious now, and that's really paramount. At least Capcom let her have that, at the very least. Opposing Farce posted:I'm also not sure whether to read her as a ciswoman whose parents insisted on raising her as a boy for what seems to be an utterly baffling non-reason like the game implies or as a transwoman, which would seem to a better fit for her backstory and actions. I know she has a line about being a girl in body and spirit or whatever, but I'm not convinced that should be taken at face value and even though the game probably intends the former interpretation authorial intent doesn't necessarily matter here. According to information on the internet it's the former, but I'm guessing she's meant to invoke both of them. The mechanics behind a cis girl being raised as a boy against her will and a trans girl being raised as a boy against her will are, well, pretty much identical. If it weren't for the whole brace thing (what the gently caress is that anyway), it could very well be ambiguous enough that Robin could possibly be either in equal likelihood. Also, am I the only person that thought the ending of the Case 3 trial was loving hilarious? Especially with proving the statue was the victim and Means writing on the board at the end. (I almost feel bad for him. Almost.) edit ohhhhh my god i hate you spoiler tags Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Oct 26, 2013 |
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Oct 26, 2013 16:00
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Pollyanna posted:CASE 3 DAY 2 SPOILERS: No I just finished it and I was crying with laughter. Best breakdown ever. Bathroom Duty 30% Salary Cut Dismissal...?
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Oct 26, 2013 16:09
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Yeah, disregarding the spoilerchat stuff for a moment case 3's finale is fantastic. I probably spent a good five minutes laughing once Prof. Means pulled his hair into a mohawk 
Opposing Farce fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Oct 26, 2013 |
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Oct 26, 2013 16:25
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Starting case 4 and gently caress this game just doesn't stop making GBS threads on poor Apollo, does it? I mean sure Phoenix lost Mia but he didn't get exploded* immediately afterwards! *hyperbole
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Oct 26, 2013 16:54
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Opposing Farce posted:Yeah, disregarding the spoilerchat stuff for a moment case 3's finale is fantastic. I probably spent a good five minutes laughing once Prof. Means pulled his hair into a mohawk
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Oct 26, 2013 17:19
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Oh god, start of case 3 presenting your badge to Nick, and the newspaper to Juniper are both amazing.
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Oct 26, 2013 17:24
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Just finished. My full, in-depth review of the final case:  Game was pretty fantastic overall. There's totally flaws, of course, but the overall experience isn't ruined by them in the slightest. EDIT: My full, in-depth review of the entire game:
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Oct 26, 2013 18:00
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How many cases are there again? And yeah, I gotta say, this is probably tied with AA2 for me.
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Oct 26, 2013 18:24
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Dragonatrix posted:Oh god, start of case 3 presenting your badge to Nick, and the newspaper to Juniper are both amazing. Also, early case 3:the colors of those broken statues could mean only one thing edit: darn it, wrong shade of purple !?
OddObserver fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Oct 26, 2013 |
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Oct 26, 2013 18:26
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Pollyanna posted:How many cases are there again? From what I've heard, it's 5 cases, with 4 and 5 being directly connected to each other.
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Oct 26, 2013 18:27
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