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AGirlWonder posted:Y'know, I feel like that bit was out of place. The conversation between Fiona and Laveau in the salon was about forms of witchcraft, but there's obviously something troubling about a white woman talking down to a black woman about "hammers chasing nails." They haven't established the reason yet for why the Salem witches and the Voodoo practitioners hate each other so much, have they? Those interactions are very racially charged, I think. I wanted someone to explain to Delphine the whole... race has changed thing, you lost, deal with it while giving it in a snark speech for hilarity. I liked how Fiona was the one to do it, because she honestly has no respect for Delphine other than as a question mark she wants the answer to, but when she took the high horse it was out of place. After the Hammer and the Nail discussion with Laveau it is obvious that Fiona does not really care too much about race relations- I'm guessing she just brought all that stuff up to hurt/inform Delphine, and I'm betting she voted for Obama because she hates anyone connected to the religious right. This was all fine until the line "There's nothing I hate more than a racist!" which felt out of place seeing as Fiona does not come off as someone who gives a poo poo about anything but herself and just got done talking down to Laveau. I've thought about it more and I'm thinking that she sees witches as a race and hates racists in that sense, not really caring about the other people who traditionally fall under the concept of race. It really was just there to be a line, and at first seemed out of place but now seems alright to me since it makes sense given Fiona being self-centered and I can see her hating "nothing more than a racist!" when to her racists are people who hate witches. Oh, people who hate black people? Sure, they are bad- but really the witch oppression is the biggest problem. No- just our coven witches. gently caress voodoo until I'm old. Zoe I think is a little weirdly written right now but is a good example to show the major damage that occurs when you have the coven under poor leadership because the Supreme is away, poor leadership that is now not even paying attention due to her personal issues, and now with the Supreme who gives no fucks and is going to care more about these witches as tools to her goal instead of students.
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Oct 27, 2013 15:36
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Rapdawg posted:
I think it's pretty clear that Fiona is extremely racist. She absolutely believes in the superiority of her race over that of other races. It's just that Fiona's "race" is witches.
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Oct 27, 2013 16:50
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Taliaquin posted:I agree. I loved the exchange between Fiona and Delphine, but I think maybe the "I hate racists" line was meant to imply hypocrisy on Fiona's part? Or else they shoehorned it in without thinking of the racial tension in the salon scene. That scene definitely seemed to have a racial angle, especially with the juxtaposition of Fiona, a wealthy white woman, making comments like that to Marie Laveau, an immortal voodooienne who, despite her power and longevity, isn't living in good circumstances. I think it might be that Fiona doesn't think of herself as a racist, but she definitely has a racist tone in the salon. I wouldn't say Marie isn't living in good circumstances necessarily, so much as she is keeping things low-key by choice. It's pretty evident that she's regarded as very powerful by people in the know both in and out of her community, and the fact that she charges $50,000 for her fertility ceremony indicates to me that she's got a fair amount of money to go with her power. My guess is she figures the best way to maintain her presence and status over the course of nearly a century and a half is to keep a low profile (an approach which Fiona of course is heavily disdainful of, since she basically wants to go the Magneto route and force humanity to bow down to their witchy betters). At least, that's my take on it. 
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Oct 27, 2013 18:19
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Yeah, guys. You have to remember this is New Orleans. A wealthy black woman would draw more ire/attention than one who's rich, but keeps the trappings of black poverty.
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Oct 27, 2013 18:20
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Postal Parcel posted:Oh yeah, I love when Fiona was just like "I voted for him[Obama], twice" and you could feel the disbelief from LaLaurie. Then she compounded it with the whole "There have been multiple black people in positions of power I like that too. It'd be so easy to make your antagonist evil in every possible way but having her be strictly non-prejudice is kind of nice. I mean, she's still a terrible person but now her motivations are more complex than needlessly evil
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Oct 27, 2013 18:31
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Those are good points I hadn't thought of and I feel dumb now.
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Oct 27, 2013 18:48
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I'd have to watch the scene again, but now I'm taking from it that Fiona wasn't belittling Marie because she was black, but because she comes from a coven wherein the magic is potion and spell based. Fiona sees her own "tribe" as better because their magic is innate and based on focusing your mind. In the first episode, she's a bitch to her daughter about her "little potions [and plants?]" maybe because that falls more under Marie's type of magic. I think if she thought black witches were beneath her, she would not even allow Queenie to be in that house. Or maybe she's just loving with LaLaurie, I don't know.
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Oct 27, 2013 18:49
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Blazing Ownager posted:Well, poo poo. I just figured something out that I might actually be right. You know how at the house the boy was all into Addie instead of the "hotter" girl, and I personally chalked it up to him being all wholesome or something, which I think is how most people read it? The hot version of her will be played by Alexandra Breckenridge.
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Oct 27, 2013 18:55
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Coconut Indian posted:I'd have to watch the scene again, but now I'm taking from it that Fiona wasn't belittling Marie because she was black, but because she comes from a coven wherein the magic is potion and spell based. Fiona sees her own "tribe" as better because their magic is innate and based on focusing your mind. In the first episode, she's a bitch to her daughter about her "little potions [and plants?]" maybe because that falls more under Marie's type of magic. I think if she thought black witches were beneath her, she would not even allow Queenie to be in that house. It's definitely primarily about voodoo versus traditional "witchcraft." But given that all of the former are black, and all* of the latter are white, there's a racial overtone. Fiona's speech about Tituba being an ignorant slave doesn't help. *Queenie states that she is descended from Tituba, who was one of the voodoo practitioners.
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Oct 27, 2013 19:08
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Coconut Indian posted:I'd have to watch the scene again, but now I'm taking from it that Fiona wasn't belittling Marie because she was black, but because she comes from a coven wherein the magic is potion and spell based. Fiona sees her own "tribe" as better because their magic is innate and based on focusing your mind. In the first episode, she's a bitch to her daughter about her "little potions [and plants?]" maybe because that falls more under Marie's type of magic. I think if she thought black witches were beneath her, she would not even allow Queenie to be in that house. I think that's a pretty good read on it, myself. It goes right along with the poster who said that Fiona is definitely racist, it's just that she's racist towards the human (i.e., non-witch) race. To Fiona, having to use potions and plants to duplicate the stuff she can do with a thought is probably on the same level as when someone appropriates bits of another culture/ethnicity in order to look "cool" or "hip". AGirlWonder posted:It's definitely primarily about voodoo versus traditional "witchcraft." But given that all of the former are black, and all* of the latter are white, there's a racial overtone. Fiona's speech about Tituba being an ignorant slave doesn't help. I will agree there's definitely a racial overtone to this season, I just think in Fiona's case it's less of not liking black people specifically and more of her just being an absolute bitch to everyone as much as possible.
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Oct 27, 2013 19:13
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AGirlWonder posted:It's definitely primarily about voodoo versus traditional "witchcraft." But given that all of the former are black, and all* of the latter are white, there's a racial overtone. Fiona's speech about Tituba being an ignorant slave doesn't help. Oh I don't deny the racial overtones, I just meant the audience's perception of the racism vs. Fiona's. I forgot about the ignorant slave comment, somehow.
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Oct 27, 2013 19:38
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Caught up to the last episode. Really like the family theme, and how Fiona is constantly subverting it. Basically feeding on the young and brilliant to push away death for a few more minutes. I honestly think she was amping herself up to get killed by Madison, or for Madison to make her move and accepting it. Urging her to kill her, then at the last minute her anger and exasperation makes her strike out without thinking (like she has, apparently, throughout her whole life). That's an interesting beat to hit. Otherwise, still feel like we're at low gear here. I know that this show has never done horror that well (outside of the infanata in the first season, and some of the cruelty inflicted by the Church in the second), but for a season about witches and sorcery, is anyone else suprised by the lack of supernatural or demonic influences so far? These aren't X-men. Witches traditionally rely on the invocation of a whole host of evil (and not so evil) entities, and their inclusion would definitely raise the creepy factor. Outside of that, there isn't a real interesting through-line being developed yet. Just a bunch of unconnected horribleness. Here's hoping for a bit more coming together in the next couple of episodes.
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Oct 28, 2013 01:58
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Shageletic posted:Otherwise, still feel like we're at low gear here. I know that this show has never done horror that well (outside of the infanata in the first season, and some of the cruelty inflicted by the Church in the second), but for a season about witches and sorcery, is anyone else suprised by the lack of supernatural or demonic influences so far? These aren't X-men. Witches traditionally rely on the invocation of a whole host of evil (and not so evil) entities, and their inclusion would definitely raise the creepy factor. Hopefully, there will be a payoff to Madison making a pact with Satan to resurrect Kyle.
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Oct 28, 2013 02:45
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Shageletic posted:Otherwise, still feel like we're at low gear here. I know that this show has never done horror that well (outside of the infanata in the first season, and some of the cruelty inflicted by the Church in the second), but for a season about witches and sorcery, is anyone else suprised by the lack of supernatural or demonic influences so far? These aren't X-men. Witches traditionally rely on the invocation of a whole host of evil (and not so evil) entities, and their inclusion would definitely raise the creepy factor. Well, Madison did invoke Azazel, I think it was, when they did their spell to resurrect patchwork Kyle. It's AHS; I'm sure that'll come back to bite everyone in the rear end.
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Oct 28, 2013 03:21
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I don't know if this has been talked about yet, but it hasn't in the last 6 pages so: Why does the minotaur exist? I mean, it's not like the LaLaurie woman had powers at all: she just stuck the guy into a bull's head. Once LaLaurie was poisoned, why didn't Lady Voodoo just take the head off? It doesn't make sense that it was her who made the guy a minotaur since she was in love with him or something.
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Oct 28, 2013 03:46
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Cable posted:I don't know if this has been talked about yet, but it hasn't in the last 6 pages so: I'm not sure and I don't think it's been fully explained but I think it's punishment for having an affair.
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Oct 28, 2013 04:18
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ThatPazuzu posted:I'm not sure and I don't think it's been fully explained but I think it's punishment for having an affair. Yes, this is what I think too. Taliaquin posted:Zoe's kind of dumb right now. She seems really naive, and I think these things just honestly don't occur to her. And I think IncestMom, considering that she's been raping her son for God knows how long, doesn't really care. One of my friends pointed out that what struck her is IncestMom's focus on Kyle's body being what's different; she (my friend) said that she wondered if some of the emotional distress (like him sitting in silence and kind of rocking) is something she's actually seen him do even before he died. And her focus on his body makes it seem so much like she doesn't really care about him, despite believing she does. Oh. Good point. 
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Oct 28, 2013 04:22
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Cable posted:I don't know if this has been talked about yet, but it hasn't in the last 6 pages so: This is why I love her character, LaLaurie is a classic foil to the people with powers and is most likely hated on every level possible by any witch not just for being cruel but for being wrong. She painted herself in blood, did all of these things that seemed mystical and spooky, but in the end was just a rich and influential bitch who helped give them a bad reputation and was a total poser. If we look at the magical ethnic-racial sects of this show in terms of internet communities, everyone with power is Something Awful Forums/Reddit/4Chan while LaLaurie is a loving Ebaumsworld/9Gag/Upworthy who did nothing but take from others, suck at it, and leave her watermark (her historical association taint) on things they did. I'm hoping that this season has one or two really stupid out of nowhere creatures that show up pissed off and leave without much plot elaboration, as is American Horror Story tradition, and I hope that in this season is Aphrodite and Poseidon show up, since they are the reason for the bull, and proceedressurect or conjure up the ghost of Theseus to kill it with killing.
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Oct 28, 2013 21:18
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Rapdawg posted:I'm hoping that this season has one or two really stupid out of nowhere creatures that show up pissed off and leave without much plot elaboration, as is American Horror Story tradition, and I hope that in this season is Aphrodite and Poseidon show up, since they are the reason for the bull, and proceedressurect or conjure up the ghost of Theseus to kill it with killing. Oh you son of a bitch, now I'm going to be really, really mad when those two gods don't show up on the show being all "The gently caress have you done with my minotaur?"
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Oct 28, 2013 21:23
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uptown posted:Thoughts on this episode... I suspect that she is not only able to read minds, but to manipulate them as well. I wouldn't put it past the show to reveal that she makes guys think that she's hot, and that would explain that quote and why she was adamant that she isn't a virgin. The scene where she and Madison brought the cake over, the guy is all over her, and completely dismissive of Madison. This would also be another recurring theme, as her character in the first season was obsessed with being a pretty girl. Edit: Just saw that Blazing Ownager called this as well. Nihonniboku fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Oct 29, 2013 |
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Oct 29, 2013 00:41
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Shageletic posted:Caught up to the last episode. Really like the family theme, and how Fiona is constantly subverting it. Basically feeding on the young and brilliant to push away death for a few more minutes. I honestly think she was amping herself up to get killed by Madison, or for Madison to make her move and accepting it. Urging her to kill her, then at the last minute her anger and exasperation makes her strike out without thinking (like she has, apparently, throughout her whole life). That's an interesting beat to hit. The saddest thing I realized after the episode is that within 3 episodes, Madison was taken advantage of with alcohol twice. First the boys drugging her, and then Fiona dumping her drinks while feeding them to her so she couldn't defend herself. That's got to be a tragedy record for a single character. The first time lead to horrific rape, the second time lead to her murder. In universe time, I think that happened in the same week, too. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Oct 29, 2013 |
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Oct 29, 2013 08:47
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That said, the idea that Madison would be so ready to jump her neighbour a few days after being date raped is one I have some difficulty believing. I don't know how much sway we're meant to be putting into continuity here.
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Oct 29, 2013 10:34
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Open Source Idiom posted:That said, the idea that Madison would be so ready to jump her neighbour a few days after being date raped is one I have some difficulty believing. I don't know how much sway we're meant to be putting into continuity here. I hate to tell you but regarding actual behavior of victims, that's extremely plausible. New episode tomorrow! That means new gifs! MORE LIEEEESSSS
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Oct 29, 2013 15:47
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Back to "Liiessss!" for a second, because in a show with such great female actors this was such a great scene... I noticed that as Fiona rattles off her list of Black American achievements, she saves her sharpest dig for last, with "even the POET LAUREATE." This would have been a twist of the knife for someone from that time- as before the magic box, the ability to recite and, more importantly, create poetry would have been considered the height of sophistication, culture, wit, and intellect. That fact was likely the last incredulous straw, prompting such a venomous reaction. I thought this was both written and delivered subtly and very effectively.
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Oct 29, 2013 20:49
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Nihonniboku posted:I suspect that she is not only able to read minds, but to manipulate them as well. I wouldn't put it past the show to reveal that she makes guys think that she's hot, and that would explain that quote and why she was adamant that she isn't a virgin. The scene where she and Madison brought the cake over, the guy is all over her, and completely dismissive of Madison. Or it could be the opposite and she truly is hot and powerful enough to convince the coven that she is as harmless as possible.
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Oct 29, 2013 20:58
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I think it's a third thing- she read his mind to determine exactly what he wanted, then gave it to him without necessarily using magic to do it. The cake was lemon because lemon cake was his favorite and she already knew that. She can just use her power as a guide when choosing her clothes, words, body language, whatever else her target would most like to see. She's the ultimate female PUA.
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Oct 29, 2013 21:05
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haveblue posted:I think it's a third thing- she read his mind to determine exactly what he wanted, then gave it to him without necessarily using magic to do it. The cake was lemon because lemon cake was his favorite and she already knew that. She can just use her power as a guide when choosing her clothes, words, body language, whatever else her target would most like to see. She's the ultimate female PUA. So she telepathically burns him with sick negs?
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Oct 29, 2013 22:45
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If that would turn him on, sure. She's got a magic version of the social aug from Deus Ex.
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Oct 29, 2013 22:48
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I kind of thought the hot neighbor boy was/is gay. That would fit in pretty well with the mom being a weird religious freak and perhaps be an excuse for ZQ to get it on with someone in a non creepy way (finally). It would also explain why he chose to ignore the attractive, famous girl coming on to him in favor of having a nice conversation with Nan about cake. Fiona is a perfect example of a boomer that has internalized the message that "racism is bad" but has yet to correctly identify all the ways in which our society is racist. That's how she managed to saunter into a black woman's place of business, insult its appearance and Marie's heritage/gifts and still have the temerity to ask her for favors.
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Oct 30, 2013 00:37
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P_T_S posted:and perhaps be an excuse for ZQ to get it on with someone in a non creepy way (finally). I'm not sure what show you're watching.
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Oct 30, 2013 00:48
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P_T_S posted:I kind of thought the hot neighbor boy was/is gay. That would fit in pretty well with the mom being a weird religious freak and perhaps be an excuse for ZQ to get it on with someone in a non creepy way (finally). It would also explain why he chose to ignore the attractive, famous girl coming on to him in favor of having a nice conversation with Nan about cake. Maybe he's the one that's mastered sick negs?
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Oct 30, 2013 01:45
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angerbeet posted:I'm not sure what show you're watching. You're right, hoping for nudity that doesn't involve rape or necrophilia is asking too much of AHS. Silly me. 
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Oct 30, 2013 03:59
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I think he was saying that Zachary Quinto isn't on the show this season.
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Oct 30, 2013 12:35
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derp dp
MadSparkle fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Oct 30, 2013 |
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Oct 30, 2013 13:26
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Blazing Ownager posted:Well, poo poo. I just figured something out that I might actually be right. You know how at the house the boy was all into Addie instead of the "hotter" girl, and I personally chalked it up to him being all wholesome or something, which I think is how most people read it? Yeah. It's possible Nan knows how to cast a glamour which is another of her powers, that would probably be 'one of the powers' of the Supreme, which would count as seduction.
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Oct 30, 2013 13:28
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Tonight on American Horror Story: "Fearful Pranks Ensue" Fiona's choices rattle a decades-long truce between the Salem witches and Marie Laveau. The Council of Witchcraft pays a surprise visit to the Academy with disturbing allegations.
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Oct 30, 2013 16:27
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MadSparkle posted:Yeah. It's possible Nan knows how to cast a glamour which is another of her powers, that would probably be 'one of the powers' of the Supreme, which would count as seduction. That actually makes sense that if she can read minds etc.. then she may be able to manipulate them as well and it turns out Nan may be the big bad.
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Oct 31, 2013 02:59
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I love backstory scenes 
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Oct 31, 2013 03:01
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A racist truck appears!
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Oct 31, 2013 03:01
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Holy poo poo voodoo zombies.
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Oct 31, 2013 03:04
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