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Lampsacus posted:What does the doctor say around 5:50? "friends companions... *mumble*.." ? "Friends, companions I've known, I salute you. Cass...I apologize. Physician, heal thyself..."
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Nov 14, 2013 23:14
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Astroman posted:Yeah, but the fact of the matter is Capaldi is definitely the last life, and if Metacrisis counts he's the start of a new cycle. From what I've been reading about the Christmas episode, it does appear that 11 is going to be the last in the cycle, with the War Doctor and Meta-Crisis using up two of the regenerations. Essentially giving Capaldi new reign as 12 and a new cycle to kick off the first episode of the next 50...
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Nov 14, 2013 23:23
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I'm just going to type this here and not copy/paste the same thing in two threads. Okay, I retroactively regret making today a "let's go find a job so you can stop being unemployed" day. Night of the Doctor. What can I say that people already have said? It was a wonderful thing. Paul McGann finally got the (nearly ten years overdue) sendoff he deserved. Thank you, Moffat, for acknowledging his work with Big Finish. I felt disappointed when his retrospective episode was locked to just the TV movie, but you redeemed yourself with this. Now onto my  / comments.So...mostly everyone has believed that Eight was the Time War Doctor. We now have confirmation that for a good portion of it, McGann was that very Doctor, in particular, the beginning of the Time War (yes, I know technically Genesis of the Daleks is the opening shot, but details). However, it seems that now he's reached a point where no longer is being a Time Lord a comforting title. "Time Lord, Dalek...who can tell the difference?" That one line from Cass stood out the most, because as some have mentioned, being a Time Lord is enough to make people fear the Doctor. It confirms that McGann regenerates some time after the point where the Time Lords go power-hungry and crazy, making Hurt's "War Doctor" the one to close out the Time War. The only question is, what DID the War Doctor do to cause his future incarnations to shun him? Something after Night of the Doctor and Gallifrey's destruction happened that was so great that the Doctor's future selves want to forget they did it. And I think that is what the 50th will be about : acceptance. The Doctor is being forced to not only confront his past, but also to ACCEPT his past. He has said "Yes, I killed off the Time Lords and most of the Daleks", but he has not fully ACCEPTED his actions. The Doctor is, in many of his adventures, once again avoiding responsibility. Except this time, the aversion has had some very serious consequences. And that's what the 50th will cover: the Doctor taking a big step and finally accepting what he has done.
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Nov 15, 2013 00:13
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Not just acceptance, but also redemption, in this case for the War Doctor. It seems, just looking at it from the outside that that's the reason why he's there with 10 and 11 on whatever mission they're off on in the 50th. He's the Doctor that they poo poo on for doing what he did in the Time War, the one that's been stripped of the title of Doctor. So it seems likely that he might be trying to redeem himself and by the end The Day of the Doctor he'll have done something worthy of restoring his Doctor-ness, if only in the eyes of 10 and 11. Or who knows, honestly...
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Nov 15, 2013 01:11
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Redemption, or some idiotic retcon which retroactively relieves him of blame. Hopefully the first one!
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Nov 15, 2013 01:39
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nine-gear crow posted:Not just acceptance, but also redemption, in this case for the War Doctor. It seems, just looking at it from the outside that that's the reason why he's there with 10 and 11 on whatever mission they're off on in the 50th. He's the Doctor that they poo poo on for doing what he did in the Time War, the one that's been stripped of the title of Doctor. So it seems likely that he might be trying to redeem himself and by the end The Day of the Doctor he'll have done something worthy of restoring his Doctor-ness, if only in the eyes of 10 and 11. Well as we've seen it wasn't like 9 woke up and said "gently caress that last guy, I'm not calling HIM The Doctor." It was a conscious decision made by 8 and ratified by the War Doctor. And it's a personal distinction anyway. For example, his fellow Time Lords still called him "The Doctor" ("The Doctor has The Moment and he will use it."). So if anything, War Doctor poo poo on himself, and needs to come to terms with himself.
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Nov 15, 2013 04:07
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Astroman posted:Well as we've seen it wasn't like 9 woke up and said "gently caress that last guy, I'm not calling HIM The Doctor." It was a conscious decision made by 8 and ratified by the War Doctor. All the dialogue we've heard so far from the War Doctor has demonstrated some serious self loathing. The War Doctor posted:Great men are forged in fire, it is the privilege of lesser men to light the flame. That is not a quote from a man that thinks highly of himself.
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Nov 15, 2013 04:13
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The Action Man posted:All the dialogue we've heard so far from the War Doctor has demonstrated some serious self loathing. Eight did specifically ask to be made a Warrior, not a Soldier. I've always seen the difference being that a soldier fights because they want to, for honor and glory, while a warrior fights because they have to. Doesn't mean that's the intention with that wording, but it definitely seems that the War Doctor only did what he felt he had to because he felt he had to and not out of any real desire or joy.
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Nov 15, 2013 04:26
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RyuujinBlueZ posted:Eight did specifically ask to be made a Warrior, not a Soldier. I've always seen the difference being that a soldier fights because they want to, for honor and glory, while a warrior fights because they have to. Doesn't mean that's the intention with that wording, but it definitely seems that the War Doctor only did what he felt he had to because he felt he had to and not out of any real desire or joy. He joined the battle, "without choice, in the name of peace and sanity." He had to do those things because he had run out of options. I'm really starting to love the idea that the Doctor avoided fighting in the Time War until every other option possible was no longer available to him.
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Nov 15, 2013 04:44
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The Action Man posted:He joined the battle, "without choice, in the name of peace and sanity." He had to do those things because he had run out of options. I'm really starting to love the idea that the Doctor avoided fighting in the Time War until every other option possible was no longer available to him. Yeah, when the Eighth Doctor says (AAAAAAAAAAAAAA) that he's only helping out, not fighting, I get a sense he's trying to minimize fallout from Time War Bullshit but this minisode showed us why he couldn't stand on the sidelines anymore.
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Nov 15, 2013 05:14
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Yannick_B posted:Yeah, when the Eighth Doctor says (AAAAAAAAAAAAAA) I get the impression that this is going to be a large part of everyone's commentary on the minisode from now on. An unashamed 
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Nov 15, 2013 05:34
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Ensign_Ricky posted:I get the impression that this is going to be a large part of everyone's commentary on the minisode from now on. An unashamed I thought it would grow old after the fifth time, but every person that comes into the thread with "HOLY loving poo poo PAUL MCGANN" makes me grin.
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Nov 15, 2013 05:57
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Kevos Setzer posted:I thought it would grow old after the fifth time, but every person that comes into the thread with "HOLY loving poo poo PAUL MCGANN" makes me grin. My biggest regret is that I saw a "HOLY poo poo McGANN" before getting to watch the video on my own. My second biggest regret is being so hyped that I send the youtube link to my best friend with the accompanying text "HOLY poo poo HOLY poo poo McGANN IS BACK!!!!" I felt like a bit of an rear end in a top hat after that. I redeemed myself partially by making sure my wife watched the video with no prior knowledge. She's a big fan of the audio dramas, so her jaw hit the floor right around "Not the doctor you were expecting".
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Nov 15, 2013 06:01
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I'm just glad they finally ditched the TV movie's frock coat and wig and went with a variation of the more practical costume they switched to in the promos for the BF audios.
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Nov 15, 2013 06:03
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It's a nice little explanation as well for why regeneration is a lot more violent and unpredictable now than it was in the original run. When the glow starts coming out of his hands you can see that Eight is a little bit wtf about it.
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Nov 15, 2013 06:06
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deadpan posted:I'm just glad they finally ditched the TV movie's frock coat and wig and went with a variation of the more practical costume they switched to in the promos for the BF audios. I'd actually say the minisode outfit is a variation of the TV Movie outfit, if anything. It's just that in the minisode his outfit looks really, really worn down. When I was watching, it occurred to me that he kind of looked like a tramp (can't think of a better word). On that note, it's cool how they did that - it conveys to viewers unfamiliar with the audios that this guy has had a long string of adventures and has been around for a while. Renzian fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Nov 15, 2013 |
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Nov 15, 2013 06:18
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EDIT: Eek, forgot this was the spoiler thread. Nevermind.
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Nov 15, 2013 06:31
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This minisode retroactively redeemed EoT for me. If weird magical elixirs are the elevated form of Time Lord science, then Master's rebirth ritual scene does make sense, after all.
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Nov 15, 2013 10:40
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What do you need master? To become skeleton Goku.
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Nov 15, 2013 11:57
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Senor Tron posted:It's a nice little explanation as well for why regeneration is a lot more violent and unpredictable now than it was in the original run. When the glow starts coming out of his hands you can see that Eight is a little bit wtf about it. But doesnt the master and river song regenerate that way too
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Nov 15, 2013 15:16
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Hah! I'm not even that much of a Doctor Who fan, but even I did a "WHAAAAAT?!  " when McGann showed up.
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Nov 15, 2013 15:20
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Ephemeron posted:This minisode retroactively redeemed EoT for me. If weird magical elixirs are the elevated form of Time Lord science, then Master's rebirth ritual scene does make sense, after all. Good point. I hadn't thought of that. I also assume the elixirs are filled with tiny nanobots that rewrite Time Lord DNA, but they've reached the stage where their technology looks like magic.
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Nov 15, 2013 16:21
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Rita Repulsa posted:But doesnt the master and river song regenerate that way too I thought about that, and eventually decided gently caress it, maybe the rules around regeneration were changed during the Time War to make Time Lords better able to fight in it.
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Nov 15, 2013 16:30
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Senor Tron posted:I thought about that, and eventually decided gently caress it, maybe the rules around regeneration were changed during the Time War to make Time Lords better able to fight in it. For all we know explosive regeneration may have been developed as a way of stopping you from just getting shot again the moment you've finished.
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Nov 15, 2013 16:42
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River's always going to be different because she's a Time Head baby conceived in the TARDIS. She's also a Human Time Lord, as opposed to a Gallifreyan one (which I suppose works like Kaled DNA Daleks vs Human DNA Daleks). It's no stretch to believe that the TARDIS might have imbued her with upgraded regeneration tech. But truthfully the new regeneration effect is just an effect, and I suspect it's more to be seen as the Roddenberry Klingon explanation of "it always looked that way, we just didn't have the special effects budget to do it properly in the 60s." And it's not like the first 7 regenerations were consistent at all. Heck, look at the weird face morphing of the TV Movie. Regeneration effects are always "the best sfx technology can do at the time."
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Nov 15, 2013 16:50
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Captain Fargle posted:For all we know explosive regeneration may have been developed as a way of stopping you from just getting shot again the moment you've finished. Regeneration suicide bombers.
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Nov 15, 2013 16:53
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Astroman posted:Regeneration effects are always "the best sfx technology can do at the time." Not always. 
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Nov 15, 2013 16:54
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Is it wrong to kind of wish that they'd do a separate DVD release for "The Night of the Doctor", and not just stick it on "The Day of the Doctor" DVD?PriorMarcus posted:Regeneration suicide bombers. In the audio drama "Project: Lazarus" was about. The Forge wanted the Sixth Doctor's secret of regeneration so they could create soldiers who could die on the battlefield, then regenerate and keep fighting. Davros1 fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Nov 15, 2013 |
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Nov 15, 2013 16:55
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As far as the mini-sode things go, they're also going to be releasing "The Last Day" at some point. It passed the British Board of Film Classification system, and was listed as almost 4 minutes long. The cert wasn't clear if it's a BTS thing or if it'll be a prequel-like thing. I'm hoping, that if it doesn't air by the 50th, that'll mean it's a post-50th thing, possibly the Hurt->Eccleston regeneration. Making both Night and Last Day nice bookends to the 50th. http://observationdeck.io9.com/the-day-of-the-doctor-gets-a-minisode-but-whats-the-1457653919
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Nov 15, 2013 17:33
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A post 50th mini-sode before Matt Smith's last episode? His Final Day.
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Nov 15, 2013 17:41
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Whizbang posted:Wait until midday when they put up one for Hurt. Nnnnnnnope. 
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Nov 15, 2013 18:47
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Day of the Doctor clip from Children in Need: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOm51xkz61M Partially addresses the fact 11 somewhat remembers meeting himself as 10. Hopefully we'll get more on that, as it seems odd at the moment. Teek fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Nov 15, 2013 |
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Nov 15, 2013 21:20
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No stranger than 10 meeting 5 in Time Crash - I mean, 10 remembers how to solve the problem because he remembers seeing it as 5, but somehow doesn't remember being told "by the way, the Master's back". Still, this establishes that the events happened in 11's temporal past, and it's not some sort of time-travel-fuckery that rewrites history, causing 11 meeting 10 to happen for the first time simultaneously for them or something. That's... interesting.
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Nov 15, 2013 21:55
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Mortanis posted:No stranger than 10 meeting 5 in Time Crash - I mean, 10 remembers how to solve the problem because he remembers seeing it as 5, but somehow doesn't remember being told "by the way, the Master's back". I *really* wish they'd canonize the perspective timeline theory. They've courted it quite extensively throughout the years, so it's not like it wouldn't fit the show's dynamic.
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Nov 15, 2013 22:01
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Mortanis posted:No stranger than 10 meeting 5 in Time Crash - I mean, 10 remembers how to solve the problem because he remembers seeing it as 5, but somehow doesn't remember being told "by the way, the Master's back". I always figured that the Doctor could remember what had happened in his past incarnations, but at the moment they met, that information would be gone, since to his previous incarnation, it was just happening, so there was no way the current Doctor could remember it since it hadn't happened to him yet. 
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Nov 15, 2013 22:03
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Davros1 posted:I always figured that the Doctor could remember what had happened in his past incarnations, but at the moment they met, that information would be gone, since to his previous incarnation, it was just happening, so there was no way the current Doctor could remember it since it hadn't happened to him yet. I think in all the multi-Doctor stories involving the Time Lords, everyone gets their memory wiped afterwards. Blasphemeral posted:I *really* wish they'd canonize the perspective timeline theory. They've courted it quite extensively throughout the years, so it's not like it wouldn't fit the show's dynamic. Oh god, there's that c-word again. Why do people give a poo poo about something being 'canon' or not? It's literally the most meaningless thing in the universe.
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Nov 15, 2013 22:12
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marktheando posted:Oh god, there's that c-word again. Why do people give a poo poo about something being 'canon' or not? It's literally the most meaningless thing in the universe. What people mean by "canon" here is "shown in the TV show." As in, there are categories or levels of canon, and many people consider "shown on TV" (or alternately "shown in the revival series") a superior form of canon.
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Nov 15, 2013 22:25
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marktheando posted:Oh god, there's that c-word again. Why do people give a poo poo about something being 'canon' or not? It's literally the most meaningless thing in the universe. Having something officially confirmed/endorsed by the creative team behind a property helps give a sense of solidarity and continuity (in the non chronological sense) to the universe. Having a list of officially recognized works/concepts can lend a sense of weight that a canon-free free-for-all can lack.
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Nov 15, 2013 22:25
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Gau posted:What people mean by "canon" here is "shown in the TV show." As in, there are categories or levels of canon, and many people consider "shown on TV" (or alternately "shown in the revival series") a superior form of canon.  Yes I know? What makes you think I didn't understand this? That kind of sperging is exactly what I was complaining about.jivjov posted:Having something officially confirmed/endorsed by the creative team behind a property helps give a sense of solidarity and continuity (in the non chronological sense) to the universe. Having a list of officially recognized works/concepts can lend a sense of weight that a canon-free free-for-all can lack. But in a show as long running as this with so many tv stories, novels, audios, comics, video games where the writers obviously don't (and have never) given a poo poo about the canonicity of anything don't you think it's a bit silly to even think about whether something is officially canon or not? Can't you just enjoy the stuff you like and ignore the stuff you don't like? Like to me the only canon Master appearance in the revival is in Utopia. And all the poo poo about the Doctor being half human never happened.
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Nov 15, 2013 22:37
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marktheando posted:
Canon has nothing to do with personally accepting things - there is an awful word "fanon" for that. Canon refers to the idea that a body of work with multiple authors can have multiple levels of authenticity, based on various factors (nearly always the medium of distribution, but not always). For example, the commonly accepted canon policy among fans right now is something like this: A1. Revival series A2. Classic series (including TV Movie) B. Big Finish audios C. Novels not based on broadcast stories D. Comic books and other spinoff media Z. Explicitly non-canon outings, such as the Dr. Who movies, Scream of the Shalka, and Curse of the Fatal Death. So, we can say that nearly everything is canon, but that some levels of canon are more "official" than others. If something is said in a Big Finish audio one way and then shown differently in a TV episode, the depiction in the episode takes preference. The idea that Eight fought in the Time War (as apparently shown in some comics) is now non-canonical due to the recent minisode. If that's all "too spergy" for you, well then, man, I dunno. I like to nerd out on things. If you don't, cool.
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Nov 15, 2013 22:49
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