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Genpei Turtle
Jul 20, 2007

Captain Rufus posted:

C'mon man do it! Some folks are interested in the MSX and Sharp x68000 machines. I am still hitting myself over not getting Ogre MSX. It and Vampire Killer are pretty much the main games I want on it, plus Thexder 2 and the Hydlides and Black Onyx games. Black Onyx was like the first Jrpg even if it was made by a man more famous for giving Tetris to the world IIRC. (Well on consoles and popularizing it. Since everyone ignores computers.)

Argh, those are like the two Japanese computers that I know least about. I've had a decent amount of experience with the x68000 but outside of the Dracula installment I don't think I've played any exclusives. Most of what I have played is ports of NEC PC-98 games with (usually) superior graphics and (nearly always) superior sound. MSX I've only played a handful, and it really seems a lot closer to a console than a PC in terms of its games for the most part anyway. When it comes to classic Japanese cRPGs, the PC-88 and PC-98 blows it away. Those are the two computers I know most about.

quote:

I mean we got a couple JCRPGS in English mostly from Sierra (and err.. Porny ones from Megatech) but not many at all. gently caress we aren't even getting the remake of Sorcerian on the App Store in English. Or an older J Wizardry that is one of two Wizardries on the App Store. Yet some dude makes like 5 scenarios in Japan as an homage to classic Wizardry and he translated them! (Sorcerer.). There are a couple Dungeon Masters but with a different name. Not paying for piracy. (And mostly just hoping the DM Grimrock conversion ever gets done.)

You're not missing anything with the remake of Sorcerian. I snagged it when it was free for a short period on the Japanese store and it's a terrible port. It controls horribly, is very crashy, and has downright extortionate IAP. Most of the J-Wizardries are Wizardry 5 clones, and are really hit and miss. (though I like them) Prisoners of the Battles, which is the one on the App Store, was kind of "meh" IIRC. It doesn't play too well on iOS either. I think that's relatively recent too, like less than 10 years old. Of course like most Japanese Windows games, the original version runs like crap on modern OSes. Seriously, I don't understand why Japanese PC game programmers are such poo poo at it. Outside of a handful like Koei (and even that's stretching it in some parts) they can't seem to be able to make anything that doesn't break massively when DirectX gets a little patch or something.

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Iris of Ether
Sep 29, 2005

Valkyrie is not amused
FYI, Wizardry 6, 7, and 8 are on sale for $2.25 (USD) on Steam for the next ~6.5 hours.

Just Wizardry 8 is...apparently also $2.25 for whatever reason. :confuoot:

Kuros
Sep 13, 2010

Oh look, the consequences of my prior actions are finally catching up to me.

Iris of Ether posted:

FYI, Wizardry 6, 7, and 8 are on sale for $2.25 (USD) on Steam for the next ~6.5 hours.

Just Wizardry 8 is...apparently also $2.25 for whatever reason. :confuoot:

I just got this myself. Was surprised at the price for the 3 games.

Dr. Quarex
Apr 18, 2003

I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

TOVA TOVA TOVA
Actually Wizardry 8 is $2.49 by itself (though it shows as 85% off on the main page, it only shows as 75% off if you go to buy it), so you have to prove that you REALLY JUST WANT WIZARDRY 8 by actually spending more for it.

Needless to say I now own my second copies of all three games.

Hidden Asbestos
Nov 24, 2003
[placeholder]
Well that's good timing. I've just released a new update to my DosBox patch which has specific fixes for the popping audio in Wizardry 6 and now Wizardry 7.

The instructions are essentially the same. Download. Replace dosbox with my one and add a line "wizpopfix=6" or "wizpopfix=7" to the .conf file near the pcspeaker=true line based on the game. I believe it'll be very easy to apply this change to the Steam version.

Oh and don't forget to switch Wizardry 7 to PC Speaker mode or you won't get very good sound effects at all (or at least I didn't with the stock GOG.com installer).

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

Quarex posted:

Actually Wizardry 8 is $2.49 by itself (though it shows as 85% off on the main page, it only shows as 75% off if you go to buy it), so you have to prove that you REALLY JUST WANT WIZARDRY 8 by actually spending more for it.

Needless to say I now own my second copies of all three games.

I bought all 3 Wizardries on GOG the day that they came out, and it was all that I could do to not buy these as well.

SYSV Fanfic
Sep 9, 2003

by Pragmatica

JustJeff88 posted:

I bought all 3 Wizardries on GOG the day that they came out, and it was all that I could do to not buy these as well.

I'm looking forward to the day wiz 1-5 comes to gog so I can stop worrying if I have my ultimate wizardry archives cd backed up enough different places.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

keyvin posted:

I'm looking forward to the day wiz 1-5 comes to gog so I can stop worrying if I have my ultimate wizardry archives cd backed up enough different places.

Oddly, I'm not as enthusiastic about those. I got the New Age of Llylgamyn collection and I played through Wiz 1 and 2. I enjoyed them well enough, but I didn't want to play 3 because it meant starting over. I won't play 4 because I don't hate myself THAT much, and I've yet to find a version of 5 that actually feels playable. I tried one partially translated Japanese version that was graphically hosed up, and the SNES version under emulation was really slow and clunky.

GuyDudeBroMan
Jun 3, 2013

by Ralp
Which of the Wizardry games (if any) are worth playing? I'm looking for something that's not an annoying grind and doesn't have a too clunky interface (like lots of old games do).

Also, can you import your characters from the previous ones?

chairface
Oct 28, 2007

No matter what you believe, I don't believe in you.

6-8 let you import characters through em and are the most modern of the series, although you may wanna skip straight to 8 as it's the closest thing to "modern." 1-3 also let you import characters through em but those were classic 80s balls-hard dungeon crawls so you might not be interested. Also their "interface" was hotkeys.

Genpei Turtle
Jul 20, 2007

GuyDudeBroMan posted:

Which of the Wizardry games (if any) are worth playing? I'm looking for something that's not an annoying grind and doesn't have a too clunky interface (like lots of old games do).

Also, can you import your characters from the previous ones?

Hasn't seen much posting recently but the Wizardry thread can help on that front.

All of the Wizardries require lots of combat, and most have clunky interfaces. The last Wizardry, 8, is more than 10 years old. Wizardry 7 is over 20 years old.

Speaking as someone who's played and loved virtually every Wizardry game, even the ones that people hate:

Wizardry 1-3 are fun, but being from the early 80s, somewhat archaic. They're pure balls-hard dungeon crawls and near-nonstop combat. As mentioned, characters are (sorta) import-capable.

Wizardry 4 is notorious for its sadistic difficulty--it's probably the second hardest cRPG I've ever played. (Deathlord is #1, gently caress you Deathlord) Knowledge of previous Wizardries is required and the game will actively and deliberately shove its boot up your rear end at every opportunity. Only a very specific type of gamer will enjoy this.

Wizardry 5 is like 1-3 but expanded a lot, with better/bigger dungeon designs, NPCs, missile weapons, and a bunch of other bells and whistles. It's probably the best of the classic Wizardries.

Wizardry 6-8 is (in the West) generally accepted to be the best trilogy in the series. Of that trilogy, 7 is decidedly the best, but 8 is probably more popular as it's got the most accessible interface. 8's also the easiest of the series by a good bit.

Chairchucker
Nov 14, 2006

to ride eternal, shiny and chrome

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2022




I tried to play both Wizardry 6 and 7 and the interfaces and various other things just annoyed me.

Wizardry 8 on the other hand owns all the bones. It can be a bit grindy at times, just on account of turnbased combat with a multitude of participants, but the payoff is you gradually build teams that can oneshot hordes of creatures.

andrew smash
Jun 26, 2006

smooth soul
I snagged wiz 8 in the GOG holiday sale, can anybody recommend a starting party? For better or worse I'm not ten anymore and am probably only going to bother to play through it once.

SYSV Fanfic
Sep 9, 2003

by Pragmatica

andrew smash posted:

I snagged wiz 8 in the GOG holiday sale, can anybody recommend a starting party? For better or worse I'm not ten anymore and am probably only going to bother to play through it once.

I can't speak to the best party, but I think a fairy ninja adds something to every party.

Chairchucker
Nov 14, 2006

to ride eternal, shiny and chrome

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2022




andrew smash posted:

I snagged wiz 8 in the GOG holiday sale, can anybody recommend a starting party? For better or worse I'm not ten anymore and am probably only going to bother to play through it once.

I will tell you briefly why you can't live without any class!

You need a Fighter because they wear all the heaviest armour and wield the biggest swords and axes and they can go berserk on fools for colossal amounts of damage.

You need a Lord because they regenerate health and can, again, wear all the heaviest armour and wield pretty much all the best weapons, and also they can be a semi decent back up caster of priest spells and they are good at wielding two weapons.

You need a Valkyrie because, again, heaviest armour and all the weapons, and also backup priest spells, but also they have the frequent habit of not dying when they are reduced to below zero health - instead they often get knocked out and get a bunch of health back.

You need a Ranger because they are awesome with a bow and can occasionally instant kill someone with their bow, and they are the only class in the game to get scouting, which means you don't have to walk around actively searching for hidden items, some of which are pretty darn handy. Also they are back up alchemists which can be nice.

You need a Samurai because you want to wield all the cool Samurai specific swords and wear the Samurai specific armour, and also they are just the best sword fighters in general, and can occasionally instant kill people. Also they are a back up mage spell class.

You need a Ninja because they are THE instant kill specialists, and can also get instant kills with thrown weapons, and also automatically penetrate armour with their thrown items, so you load them up with shurikens or whatever and watch your enemies die. Also they are one of the classes that can open locks, and they are a back up alchemist class.

You need a Monk because you want to punch people in the face like a billion times in one turn. Also they get damage resistance. Also they don't care about being blinded all that much. Also they occasionally get instant kills. Also they are a back up psionic class.

You need a Rogue because they are the best at opening locks, also they backstab people which is basically the equivalent of attacking from behind them every time, except rogues do it even when they're facing the enemies.

You need a Gadgeteer because as well as being a decent locksmith, they get the omnigun which eventually upgrades to pump out a ridiculous number of debilitating status effects and uses almost anything as ammunition. Also they can make gadgets which, as well as being cool because who doesn't want to put weird techno stuff together to make something else, allows the gadgeteer to cast spells using stamina instead of spell points, which tends to be more sustainable spell casting.

You need a Bard because they make you rest quicker, they get some neat bard only items (and class specific stuff tends to own) and they can use a variety of musical instruments in much the same way gadgeteers use gadgets.

You need a Priest because they are, bar none, the best class to keep your characters from dying or suffering disease or poison or whatever. All the healing spells. All of them.

You need a Mage because you want to rain fiery death upon the heads of your wretched enemies.

You need a Psionic because you want to do a bit of fiery death and a little bit of healing, and also like being immune to spells that confuse the mind like insanity, and would rather deal those effects out yourself.

You need an Alchemist because it is another part death dealing/part healing class, but also they don't care about being silenced, and they will make you rich by brewing up valuable potions.

You need a Bishop because, let's face it, who wants to have to pick and choose which of the spellbooks to cast from when you could instead cast literally any spell from any of them? This can also free you up to have more of the sword wielding classes as your bishop can sit at the back making sure every single one of the daily cast spells (the ones that last several hours. Cast them as soon as you wake up.) are maintained, and also heal everyone, and also nuke the hell out of your enemies. I freaking love bishops.

andrew smash
Jun 26, 2006

smooth soul
Nice. So Lord/Ranger/Ninja/Gadgeteer/Bishop/bard is viable? that sounds like it covers the stuff i want to see as widely as possible without leaving any glaring holes, except magic is weak and i don't have any psi.

Genpei Turtle
Jul 20, 2007

andrew smash posted:

Nice. So Lord/Ranger/Ninja/Gadgeteer/Bishop/bard is viable? that sounds like it covers the stuff i want to see as widely as possible without leaving any glaring holes, except magic is weak and i don't have any psi.

That's pretty good but could be better. You've only got one frontline melee class (Lord, which kinda sucks compared to the rest--Fighter, Valkyrie, Samurai, and Rogue are all better) with lots of squishiness to protect. At the very least you'll want to swap out the Ranger for an additional melee character. Once you build it up that will be extremely formidable but the early game might be a little rough. There are a few RPCs that can help fill some of those holes though--there's a very good Valkyrie early on for example.

Also that build does have Psi--your bishop.

The Wizardry thread has tons of Wizardry 8 party building chat if you want to read through it.

GuyDudeBroMan
Jun 3, 2013

by Ralp
I'm on the fence with Wizardry here. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna give 8 a go. My dilemma is if I want to do 6-7 first. How bad is 6? Like will I need to get my graph paper out and manually map out dungeons and poo poo, or does it have a usable auto-map feature/quest journal? I hate clunky old interfaces. Even Baulders Gate 1:EE angers me because its quest journal is garbage and it's too hard to follow (BG2's is fine though).

Chairchucker
Nov 14, 2006

to ride eternal, shiny and chrome

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2022




The vast majority of my games had a bishop as my sole caster. They start off relatively slowly, but if you cast spells with them at every single opportunity, draining their SP down to zero by the end of every combat, (note: I tended towards Fairie bishops on account of their faster SP regeneration) you can keep them competent enough to keep your party alive, and then by the end of the game they will be destroying everything.

One important thing to be aware of is placing: I found the best way to set up one's party (provided you are happy to prepare for combat such that no one will ever attack you from behind) is to not use the front part of the setup at all, have my frontline fighters divided between the middle segments, and have my long range types (in the case of your example, that'd be Gadgeteer, Ranger and Bishop) all jammed into the back space. Also, one handy thing I've discovered is that if you jam a long range weapon into someone's back up weapon slot and a short range one into their main slot, and that person spends their time down the back anyway, that means they'll automatically switch out their melee weapons for their longer reach ones any time they can't reach people with their melee weapons. Also handy to give your melee front row a back up missile or reach weapon, that way when enemies are juuuust out of reach they'll just pull out their spear or whatever and have a swing anyway.

Also you actually will have Psi - Bishops cast from all four spellbooks.

Bouchacha
Feb 7, 2006

andrew smash posted:

Nice. So Lord/Ranger/Ninja/Gadgeteer/Bishop/bard is viable? that sounds like it covers the stuff i want to see as widely as possible without leaving any glaring holes, except magic is weak and i don't have any psi.

A lot of your characters won't show potential until the late game, including Gadgeteer, Bishop, and Lord. All three will absolutely murder hordes of enemies towards the end though, but you may want to switch out the Lord for a no-frills fighter (lizardman or draco for example). The ranger's scout ability is really useful from an annoyance perspective and the gadgeteer can be used to open locks, so you may want to switch the Ninja out for a str-based samurai.

The party I beat the game with was:
Lizardman Fighter
Mook Ranger
Human Samurai
Dwarf Gadgeteer
Elf Bishop
Halfling Bard

They all performed commendably and I got to play with most of the toys I came across. The bard was useful for crowd control early on, while my bishop and gadgeteer built up skills. My fighter was absolutely tearing enemies apart and my ranger would often save me with instant kills. My samurai was the only one that was lackluster, but that was probably because I opted for pumping speed instead of strength.

Genpei Turtle
Jul 20, 2007

GuyDudeBroMan posted:

I'm on the fence with Wizardry here. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna give 8 a go. My dilemma is if I want to do 6-7 first. How bad is 6? Like will I need to get my graph paper out and manually map out dungeons and poo poo, or does it have a usable auto-map feature/quest journal? I hate clunky old interfaces. Even Baulders Gate 1:EE angers me because its quest journal is garbage and it's too hard to follow (BG2's is fine though).

Wizardry 6 is almost 25 years old. You will need graph paper or a map, there is no quest journal, (most of the game is wandering around, trying to figure out puzzles and the like and has less in the way of structured quests) you will need to type keywords, all the use the same tiles, and there will be lots of clicking choices and inventory swapping. There is an excellent game under that, but it is clunky as hell.

Wizardry 7 isn't so clunky, but is still pretty dated. There's a map kit you find which allows you to automap, (and it gets more detailed as your party's mapping skill increases) the interface is a little more streamlined, there's much more visual variety which makes it easier to tell where you're going. Exploration and quests are similar to 6 though so no quest journal. The puzzles are a little less obtuse as well, though still pretty tricky. You might want to start with that instead.

The main advantage of going from 6-8 is that they all tie into each other. There are 4 separate endings for 6, and 7 starts differently depending on what ending you get. Similarly there are 4 endings for 7 and 8 starts differently depending on which you get. Also by skipping straight to 8, you miss out on 7 which is a much better game. Don't get me wrong, 8 is an awesome game, but it's a big step back from 7 in a lot of ways. The world just seems tiny and limited in 8 compared to 7--7 is a giant open world, and 8 is much much smaller. Also the class-change system was eviscerated in 8. 8 is way more hand-holdy with very little in the way of puzzles or serious potential roadblocks, so it's not nearly as satisfying to finish either.

Jordan7hm
Feb 17, 2011




Lipstick Apathy
+ 8 is still a pretty decent size world.

A playthrough of 6-8 is a massive undertaking. Just play 8. or 7.

6 is a lot of fun though too.

andrew smash
Jun 26, 2006

smooth soul
Well, bouchacha's party is working out pretty well so far. My only fuckup was picking sleep on my bishop, didn't realize the bard started with a sleep item. Also this game sounds exactly like jagged alliance 2, you can tell sirtech was recycling a lot of their audio around the time these two games came out.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever
I'm going to post this here as there is no dedicated thread on SA (I checked) and it's a "modern-retro" game:

Anyone here played Legend of Grimrock? Lately I've been keen to have a go at that, having always been a huge fan of the Eye of the Beholder trilogy. I'm just trying to decide on a party composition. This game is very structured and fixed, so I can't see myself playing it more than once and I want to get as much out of one run as I can

The game has 4 races and 3 classes, so I'm thinking Minotaur Warrior, Lizardman Rogue, Insectoid mage specialising in Lightning and then maybe Frost if I have the points, and a human... something. All of the previous races are basically tailor-made for their given classes, but humans are good all-'rounders who are solid at any class. I don't see much point in another rogue, so I'm thinking either a warrior, possibly with a monk-like build with no armour, high evasion, and great unarmed skill to complement the huge beefy bull-man, or another mage who slings fire (and maybe poison) around to put in the back with my bugwizard.

Any thoughts?

Jordan7hm
Feb 17, 2011




Lipstick Apathy
My last game stopped at around level 11 (floor level ~10) I went with:

Lizardman Rogue (Unarmed + Shield / No Armour) Every single skill point went into unarmed combat, which gives you a whole ton of evasion once you get the Lighning speed skill level.

Human Fighter (Swords + Board / Heavy Armour). Points went to Swords and Armour (just bring armour to 16 for the heavy proficiency)

Insectoid Fire Mage (No Armour). I did put 3 points into ice magic so I could use Ice Shards, but otherwise push for fire and spellcasting. 18 spellcasting is huge.

Minotaur Rogue (Bows / No Armour). Every point went into missile weapons.

The headhunter trait turns your Minotaur rogue into a dealer of death by the latter half of the game. Your human fighter is the tank, because later on nobody even targets the lizardman rogue.

Two mages would be fun, but I think you'd lose out a bit on the archery aspect. One issue with the game's balance is that fire is unquestionably the best magic path, so if you go another route, you're making a conscious decision not to powergame.

seorin
May 23, 2005

2 Sun's Dusk (Day 78)
Of the Seven Visions of Seven Trials of the Incarnate, I have now fulfilled the Fifth Trial.
It used to have its own thread, which you can still find in the archives here. There's plenty of party build chat there, but it's a huge thread, so here's the post I made about the most ridiculously overpowered party:

quote:

#1: Sword Fighter. Lizardman, max dex, remaining points in strength, agile and skilled, start with all points in swords. Spend your first level up on swords as well to get the special move, then spend two levels unlocking light armor. The rest of your points will go into swords, and your fighter will take any skill books you find to try and shoot for heavy armor use in the late game to make up for low evasion.

#2: Unarmed Rogue. Lizardman, max dex, remaining points in strength, agile and fist fighter, start with all points in unarmed. Spend all points in unarmed as you level. Once you max unarmed, you'll probably have just enough points to grab the lowest evasion bonus from dodge before the game ends.

#3: Fire Mage. Insectoid, max willpower, remaining points in vitality, strong mind and aura, start with 2 points in fire and 1 in spellcraft. Push spellcraft to 10 for quick casting and ice to 3 for a backup spell to use on fire-immune enemies. Then focus on fire to 32 for circle of protection, and then back to spellcraft with whatever points remain.

#4: Missile Rogue. Minotaur, max strength, remaining points in vitality, headhunter and athletic, start with a whole point in missile weapons. Spend all points in missile weapons as you level. If you somehow have points left over after maxing that, then, uh ... I dunno, see if anything gives you more strength.

If you really want a human, make the fighter a human. You might as well play on hard if you're using this party, because it's that overpowered.

andrew smash
Jun 26, 2006

smooth soul
With regard to wizardry 8, does anybody know where the keyboard mapping configuration info is stored? I can change key maps in-game (primarily to enable wasd movement) but they revert to the arrow key defaults when I close and re-open the game. No problems with save games aside from that. It wouldn't even really be a problem but my keyboard doesn't have a numpad.

Edit:if anyone cares it's wiz8.cfg. it's not human readable so you can't edit it easily but my problem was that it was set to read only.

andrew smash fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Jan 10, 2014

Genpei Turtle
Jul 20, 2007

What's the general consensus on old 80s-era SSI RPGs--e.g. Phantasie, Shard of Spring, Wizard's Crown, etc.--as in which are the best? As a kid I thought a lot of them looked interesting but never had the money for any of them. I played a little bit of Questron II but aside from that never touched any of them. I just got my old Apple II back up in commission (it's surprising how many 5-1/4" floppies can survive after 25+ years) and was thinking of looking around for a few to maybe give a try to the handful I never got to play.

Chinook
Apr 11, 2006

SHODAI

Genpei Turtle posted:

What's the general consensus on old 80s-era SSI RPGs--e.g. Phantasie, Shard of Spring, Wizard's Crown, etc.--as in which are the best? As a kid I thought a lot of them looked interesting but never had the money for any of them. I played a little bit of Questron II but aside from that never touched any of them. I just got my old Apple II back up in commission (it's surprising how many 5-1/4" floppies can survive after 25+ years) and was thinking of looking around for a few to maybe give a try to the handful I never got to play.

I remember having fun with The Magic Candle. (I also played Questron 2 back in the late 80s.)

Genpei Turtle
Jul 20, 2007

Chinook posted:

I remember having fun with The Magic Candle. (I also played Questron 2 back in the late 80s.)

I liked the Magic Candle too, but that was Mindcraft, not SSI. :)

chairface
Oct 28, 2007

No matter what you believe, I don't believe in you.

Genpei Turtle posted:

What's the general consensus on old 80s-era SSI RPGs--e.g. Phantasie, Shard of Spring, Wizard's Crown, etc.--as in which are the best? As a kid I thought a lot of them looked interesting but never had the money for any of them. I played a little bit of Questron II but aside from that never touched any of them. I just got my old Apple II back up in commission (it's surprising how many 5-1/4" floppies can survive after 25+ years) and was thinking of looking around for a few to maybe give a try to the handful I never got to play.

I only played some of them on C64 but a lot of those 80s-era SSI games like Phantasie pretty well establish their credibility that led to the late 80s/early 90s Gold Box AD&D licensed games. The Phantasie games are particular gems and if you like 80s type party based rpgs, you'll probably enjoy them. Phantasie 1-3 are all good starting points and IIRC you can import a party through all of em.

CountingWizard
Jul 6, 2004

GuyDudeBroMan posted:

I'm on the fence with Wizardry here. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna give 8 a go. My dilemma is if I want to do 6-7 first. How bad is 6? Like will I need to get my graph paper out and manually map out dungeons and poo poo, or does it have a usable auto-map feature/quest journal? I hate clunky old interfaces. Even Baulders Gate 1:EE angers me because its quest journal is garbage and it's too hard to follow (BG2's is fine though).

I still think the best version of Wizardry is Wizardry: Tale of the Forsaken Land for the PS2 and supposedly its sequal (J) is even better. If you don't mind loading up an emulator it is a great experience of how to do old-school gaming right. They did alot of things different while keeping the fun things the same:

  • Fast movement, and no jerky step by step as you move from grid-tile to grid-tile.
  • Non-standard tile shapes like winding paths, elbows, etc.
  • Bonus-pt Stat Roll: <12 95%, 13 4%, 14-20 1%, 20-30 super rare; meaning you may as well settle for slightly above average and not spend hours rolling.
  • Western themed art style; no kawaii animes (mostly).
  • Tons and tons of in-dungeon story interactions that make exploring interesting.
  • Tons of pre-made characters that are stronger than customs, and make the game interesting because they cause things to happen.
  • Friendship/Trust system that is affected by in-dungeon actions and dialogue choices.
  • Allied Action system, allow you to take more versatile and tactical actions than just an individual character blocking or attacking. Example: Charge enemies to kill weak ones quickly, counterattack from back row to cancel attacks on front row, etc.
  • Really good 3-dimensional monsters and animations.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

CountingWizard posted:

I still think the best version of Wizardry is Wizardry: Tale of the Forsaken Land for the PS2 and supposedly its sequal (J) is even better. If you don't mind loading up an emulator it is a great experience of how to do old-school gaming right. They did alot of things different while keeping the fun things the same:

  • Fast movement, and no jerky step by step as you move from grid-tile to grid-tile.
  • Non-standard tile shapes like winding paths, elbows, etc.
  • Bonus-pt Stat Roll: <12 95%, 13 4%, 14-20 1%, 20-30 super rare; meaning you may as well settle for slightly above average and not spend hours rolling.
  • Western themed art style; no kawaii animes (mostly).
  • Tons and tons of in-dungeon story interactions that make exploring interesting.
  • Tons of pre-made characters that are stronger than customs, and make the game interesting because they cause things to happen.
  • Friendship/Trust system that is affected by in-dungeon actions and dialogue choices.
  • Allied Action system, allow you to take more versatile and tactical actions than just an individual character blocking or attacking. Example: Charge enemies to kill weak ones quickly, counterattack from back row to cancel attacks on front row, etc.
  • Really good 3-dimensional monsters and animations.

I'll second this. Gamestop was really groovy and hunted me up a copy of this game from 500 miles away. It was $60+ online, but they had it shipped in and only charged me $4.99 for it. No box/booklet, but that was a loving deal.

Good game... maybe great. Feels like wizardy, really cool tactical combat, actually has character and is challenging without being bullshit

BadAstronaut
Sep 15, 2004

Hmmmm. I might want to pick up an old SSI RPG now that you guys have brought them up again. I never gave much time to Champions or Dark Queen of Krynn, and Gateway to the Savage Frontier as well.
I might take a cheater speedy run by finding maps online because I don't know if I can go back to that old system again and have to clunk around those towns mapping them out...

Which was your favourite in the series? I really enjoyed Death Knights and Treasures, and got many hours out of the first Buck Rogers game too.

Hmmm.... which one to play...

Largepotato
Jan 18, 2007

Spurd.

Genpei Turtle posted:

What's the general consensus on old 80s-era SSI RPGs--e.g. Phantasie, Shard of Spring, Wizard's Crown, etc.--as in which are the best? As a kid I thought a lot of them looked interesting but never had the money for any of them. I played a little bit of Questron II but aside from that never touched any of them. I just got my old Apple II back up in commission (it's surprising how many 5-1/4" floppies can survive after 25+ years) and was thinking of looking around for a few to maybe give a try to the handful I never got to play.

I remember Wizard's Crown being alright. Use the quick combat option and stay away from the sequel though.

Dr. Quarex
Apr 18, 2003

I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

TOVA TOVA TOVA

BadAstronaut posted:

Which was your favourite in the series? I really enjoyed Death Knights and Treasures, and got many hours out of the first Buck Rogers game too.
I remembered Secret of the Silver Blades being my personal favorite even though it seems like most people think of that as one of the worst in the whole extended series; I can certainly confirm as I only played them for the first time ~5 years ago that Gateway to the Savage Frontier and Treasures of the Savage Frontier are probably the easiest to play nowadays as they have all of the annoyance-minimizing features they figured out in the other games worked in. Though it sounds like you already played both of those, unless you skipped Gateway entirely.

BadAstronaut
Sep 15, 2004

I loved Treasures and never played Gateway (just didn't have access to it when I was younger). I'm trying now but it always says Please Insert Disk 3 into Drive D:... Oh DOSBox fun. I'll do some googling, but from my D-Fend setup, I can't see what is going wrong...

Twobirds
Oct 17, 2000

The only talking mouse in all of Britannia.
I had been meaning to ask about those. I played a bunch of them as a tyke, and was a terrible Dragonlance nerd. I thought the stories in the Krynn ones were fun, though the last one was on a different continent than the others that I had never heard of as a fan and it seemed to focus on the combat a lot more. I'm pretty sure they had the quality of life features developed in the Forgotten Realms (thank god for "Fix") so they're a good place to start.

I never did play Pools of Darkness or Treasures of the Savage Frontier. I loved Gateway so I need to try Treasures from the sounds of it, but is Pools worth it? It looked exhaustingly high-level. I got annoyed in Silver Blades that my all-the-way-from-Pool-of-Radiance characters were suddenly not gaining levels because of *~AD&D~*. I had to dump them for new folks who COULD keep up.

I remember the back-of-the-box blurbs for Treasures mentioning your characters could fall in love in the game, now I want to see how terrible it was.

BadAstronaut
Sep 15, 2004

Now, I don't remember any romances, but I do remember loving the combat and getting very into the various plots taking place. You get to do some cool overworld exploration and go into a bunch of towns that gave it an almosy open-world feel.

Treasures is definitely worth it.

As for Pools, I dunno. I should definitely play that. I want to do Champions of Krynn too, but now it's almost 11pm and I'm not going to get started on this anymore. Sigh. :smith:

I do have the non-Old School non-PC almost-RPG [b]Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together[/i] waiting to be played on my PSP, so I'm off to do that, and see if I can get Champions to work tomorrow...

EDIT: Gamefaqs has maps and what not in PNG format if, like me, you're OK with not mapping out for yourself in the Gold Box games. I just don't have quite the same amount of time as I did 20+ years ago...
http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/564800-champions-of-krynn/faqs

EDIT 2: Can anyone decipher what this is and why it exists?
https://pacer.ischool.utexas.edu/bitstream/2081/29098/1/Video%20Game%20Report%20Final.pdf

BadAstronaut fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Jan 18, 2014

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Thuryl
Mar 14, 2007

My postillion has been struck by lightning.

Looks like a group's report for a university project in which they obtained copies of the game Champions of Krynn, its documentation and other materials relating to it in order to create a digital archive for posterity.

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