double nine posted:Could you give a basic rundown on the fun that would ensue if we kept all of it, and how long/what it would take to get rid of the rebels? If my experience playing Austria in Vicky 2 is any indication, Hungarians are never loving happy. If there's three things that are the bane of my existence, it's Jacobin, Hungarians, and the British, in that order. That being said, I vote whatever fucks the Hungarians, so C-3, I suppose. Also because health care is the best care, and the best reform too (apart from schools, but that's not an option). Additionally, I'd like for Hungary to lose that sea access or get Dalmatia entirely, because disconnected Dalmatia makes me weep.
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Jan 8, 2014 10:16
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B3
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Jan 8, 2014 10:17
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B3 Grateful vassal's are good vassals, and you can't lose with Healthcare Reform.
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Jan 8, 2014 12:09
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B3
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Jan 8, 2014 12:14
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I'd also like to re-iterate something that was a bit understated: If Hungary at any moment in time becomes a Great Power, we lose our overlordship over them and get no opportunity to get it back beyond incurring full infamy costs, and that only if they drop down beyond Secondary Power. Considering Hungary is on the level of those "gently caress you" GPs that pop up when a big war slaps down a few of the major ones (see also: Bavaria, Sweden) and puppets seem unnaturally attracted to prestige techs, this might very well happen if we leave Hungary be, unpartitioned.
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Jan 8, 2014 13:01
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D1 it seems like all plans involved are dead set on us becoming Ugliest Blob of 2014 so I can only support the one that gets rid of most of our stuff in the hope that we would look slightly less bad.
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Jan 8, 2014 13:19
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C3. Healthcare reform is very strong, and I see no reason why it's consistent to let the Hungarians have their independence but keep the Romanians down. And don't you Crown of St. Stephen me. Also, yeah, Hungary GPing would be a tremendous pain in the rear end.
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Jan 8, 2014 13:45
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TheMcD posted:I'd also like to re-iterate something that was a bit understated: Good point. Changing my vote to C-3. And we should definitely keep the whole coastline, because one of the ways to control our vassal states is by making them use our ports to export stuff anywhere that isn't Russia or the Ottomans. Is there a way to also free Croatia (albeit one that only includes Slavonia and Croatia proper, not Dalmatia or Istria)?
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Jan 8, 2014 13:45
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TheMcD posted:I'd also like to re-iterate something that was a bit understated: Agreed. Not voting, but an unpartitioned Hungary, in the few of my games where I managed to annex Austria, Hungary was always a massive pain in the but when it had all of it's cores. It usually manages to become a GP due to another GP's bad luck..... and it does get an industry rather quickly. Don't let it. It will try to take your sphere, and just be a giant pain in the rear end. Edit: Clarifying. Whoops.
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Jan 8, 2014 13:52
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C-3 Hungary would just cause us problems if it is whole
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Jan 8, 2014 14:14
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The Sandman posted:Good point. Editing cores and borders is trivial, though I'll probably have to ask Wiz for help with not giving every released state Expressionism. One last thing to point out. Going all Trianon on Hungary will lead them to crazy levels of revaunchism and if one of our vassals has a revolution its ties to us will break. (If we have a revolution all of our vassals will go free)
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Jan 8, 2014 15:38
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Patter Song posted:One last thing to point out. Going all Trianon on Hungary will lead them to crazy levels of revaunchism and if one of our vassals has a revolution its ties to us will break. (If we have a revolution all of our vassals will go free) Just stick an army in Budapest and be done with it. If poo poo gets out of hand, you can then do the occasional cleanup.
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Jan 8, 2014 15:42
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A philosophical question: can I truly call SGF "the most technologically advanced country on Earth" if I do, in fact, have more tech than anyone else but my (nonexistent) Navy is still operating on 1836 tech?
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Jan 8, 2014 16:29
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Patter Song posted:A philosophical question: can I truly call SGF "the most technologically advanced country on Earth" if I do, in fact, have more tech than anyone else but my (nonexistent) Navy is still operating on 1836 tech? Yes, because your technology has clearly just evolved beyond the need for boats.
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Jan 8, 2014 16:34
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B3. Ludwigcare will provide a life of health and happiness to our new, more fully German, nation.
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Jan 8, 2014 16:41
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B3 for Hungary.
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Jan 8, 2014 17:25
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B3, because on reflection 1 and 2 probably aren't such great ideas in a newly formed empire.
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Jan 8, 2014 17:30
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Lynneth posted:B3 for Hungary.
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Jan 8, 2014 17:53
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If anyone wants demographic breakdowns on any specific parts of the eastern empire we're partitioning, just ask. I'm thinking that we're going to keep the Croatian coastline after all in either B or C because that would be dumb for us to give up. As mentioned before, if released in B Hungary would still be 12.7% South German, as well as 40.1% Hungarian. There are a great many provinces in Transylvania that are something like 50% Romanian, 30% Hungarian, 10% South German, 10% North German/Other.
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Jan 8, 2014 18:10
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Patter Song posted:Editing cores and borders is trivial, though I'll probably have to ask Wiz for help with not giving every released state Expressionism. I'm pretty sure releases getting all your tech and all inventions related to them is hard coded. What should work though: 1) Make a new save just before release 2) Use "provid" in console and get the ID of your capital 3) Edit your save file, search for "capital=XXX" to find the SGF contry section. 4) Remove whatever you want from the technologies section. 5) I don't think you need to remove anything from the active_inventions section. 6) Release, and edit your technologies back.
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Jan 8, 2014 18:30
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Xenoborg posted:I'm pretty sure releases getting all your tech and all inventions related to them is hard coded. What should work though:
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Jan 8, 2014 18:43
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Munich is #599, just for my own reference. Also, the only province I'd need to take away from Hungary to have an unbroken Dalmatian coastline is Senj, which only has 30k pops (half Croatian, a third Serb, 5.6% South German) and is only 1.3% Hungarian. Yeah...Hungary's losing the core on Senj if we pick B or C. EDIT: As an example of data, the state of Slovakia has 918k pops (extremely densely populated) and is 52% Slovak, 24% Hungarian, 10% Ukrainian, 8% South German, 3% Ashkenazi Jewish, 2% Romanian and 1% Other. The city of Bratislava (Pressburg) and its environs have 256k pops (amazingly densely populated) and is 58% Slovak, 23% Hungarian, 10% South German, 8% Ashkenazi Jewish, and 1% Other. Patter Song fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Jan 8, 2014 |
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Jan 8, 2014 18:49
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B3  Keep the Croatian coastline, we need it to host our Battleship fleet.
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Jan 8, 2014 19:08
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Pimpmust posted:B3 Lets keep it historical and keep Trieste for our battleships.
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Jan 8, 2014 19:52
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Hypothetical (except not because it's going to happen eventually): If Italy attacks us to take some of its This isn't a vote, I'm just looking for suggestions, because Italy is going to (falsely) determine that we're vulnerable and come knocking soon.
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Jan 8, 2014 20:10
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Patter Song posted:Hypothetical (except not because it's going to happen eventually): Force-releasing the Papal State is probably my preferred choice, but good god that infamy cost for no real benefit beyond roleplaying. Alternatively, I would bring more nations into the South German fold by annexing North Italy and releasing puppets such as Venice and Lombardia. Also, puppet Switzerland at some point. They're southern. And German. It must be done for the sake of the Federation.
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Jan 8, 2014 20:15
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Patter Song posted:Hypothetical (except not because it's going to happen eventually): The truly honourable thing to do would be to cede the territory wrongful stolen from Italian hands by the cruel warmongers of Austria. If we do not undo the tragic consequences of their crimes, are we truly any better than they are? In that vein, I shall vote for D1. Let all peoples of Europe look to Bavaria as the most benevolent and enlightened of states.
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Jan 8, 2014 20:15
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TheMcD posted:Force-releasing the Papal State is probably my preferred choice, but good god that infamy cost for no real benefit beyond roleplaying. I don't really conquer much, and uncivs are cheap, anyway, and force-releasing things to screw with the big dogs is a tremendous amount of fun. There's nothing I like better than Balkanizing rivals, sphereing the minors, and basically taunting them to try to reclaim their stuff. The absolute best is releasing Bulgaria from the Ottomans...it's like half the Balkans.
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Jan 8, 2014 20:16
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Patter Song posted:I don't really conquer much, and uncivs are cheap, anyway, and force-releasing things to screw with the big dogs is a tremendous amount of fun. Still, if you're going to release the Pope, you'll have to go and release Two Sicilies as well, because a split Italy is just terrible.
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Jan 8, 2014 20:20
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TheMcD posted:Still, if you're going to release the Pope, you'll have to go and release Two Sicilies as well, because a split Italy is just terrible. I believe that it'd be better to release the Papal States for just this reason 
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Jan 8, 2014 20:29
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Patter Song posted:Hypothetical (except not because it's going to happen eventually): Why not both?  As a magnanimous gesture, though, I say that when we beat up France to get Alsace, we also give the Italians back Nice and Savoy. Because that was really just a dick move on Cavour's part.
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Jan 8, 2014 23:48
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The Sandman posted:As a magnanimous gesture, though, I say that when we beat up France to get Alsace, we also give the Italians back Nice and Savoy. Because that was really just a dick move on Cavour's part. It really was. If I were Wiz I'd probably have overturned that. It wasn't a great move in real life, it was even less so in a world where Italy formed (with Lombardy!) with no need for French assistance and with Austria crumbling at the seams. One almost suspects that Cavour did it just to spite Garibaldi. EDIT: Fun fact. For a while a few months ago I was considering changing my avatar to a picture of Count Cavour (Mainly because I find his "Victorian Gabe Newell" look amazing). I decided against it, but in retrospect I wish I had because it would've made this update even better. Patter Song fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Jan 8, 2014 |
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Jan 8, 2014 23:52
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B...b..but philosopher junko!
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Jan 8, 2014 23:59
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Patter Song posted:It really was. If I were Wiz I'd probably have overturned that. It wasn't a great move in real life, it was even less so in a world where Italy formed (with Lombardy!) with no need for French assistance and with Austria crumbling at the seams.
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Jan 9, 2014 00:18
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Patter Song posted:It really was. If I were Wiz I'd probably have overturned that. It wasn't a great move in real life, it was even less so in a world where Italy formed (with Lombardy!) with no need for French assistance and with Austria crumbling at the seams. I just found the potential Cavour avatars I made again recently. Good times.
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Jan 9, 2014 00:52
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B and 3 won. We're going to remain an oligarchy of South German men of means where organized dissent is forced underground, but the commoners will be able to see the doctor so it should all work out OK! It worked for Otto von Bismarck. Also much like Bismarck, the Hungarians are out. Next update might be a while, I want to get this right. I'm keeping the province of Senj so we'll have an unbroken coastline. We will try the "delete Expressionism, release vassals, give ourselves back Expressionism" strategy to prevent Hungary from stealing 40 prestige from us.
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Jan 9, 2014 23:17
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In my Austria-Germany game the Hungarians all assimilated to Germans. The only states I had that wasn't 80-90 German minimum were Venice and Lombardia. Ahhh old Vicky 2
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Jan 9, 2014 23:30
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theblastizard posted:In my Austria-Germany game the Hungarians all assimilated to Germans. The only states I had that wasn't 80-90 German minimum were Venice and Lombardia. Ahhh old Vicky 2 Yes. As of AHD they stopped doing that.
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Jan 9, 2014 23:34
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Patter Song posted:Yes. As of AHD they stopped doing that.
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Jan 10, 2014 00:44
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theblastizard posted:That was a really good decision because it was hilariously stupid. To be specific, pops never assimilate on territory that has a core in which that pop is a primary/accepted culture. Example: illiterate Slovakian farmer outside of Bratislava will never become a South German due to the Slovakia core. If he moves to Vienna, he may eventually become South German. If he goes to New York City, he'll be a Yankee by the end of the month. Original Vicky 2: illiterate Slovakian farmer has no such protection, a decade in he'll become South German. Alternately, he moves to the New World and begins a very slow integration process during which time he notices that the USA is now 30% Chinese due to all the immigration from East Asia, and that Canada is 99% various types of South Asians and flat-out majority Bengali because that's how the British Empire works. V2 has come a long way. EDIT: After I play the next update I'll probably do a State of the World. Keeping an eye on several things...my estimate of Chinese Westernization is being pushed back to 1890, though. The later the better for the rest of us, as China has more and more to catch up on factory efficiency techs. If China westernizes in the 1860s or 1870s when European factories aren't much better than theirs they'll put all of Europe out of business very quickly. By 1890 our factories are enough better that it'll take them some years to build them up to factory level 20 or so and outperform us on sheer manpower. Patter Song fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Jan 10, 2014 |
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Jan 10, 2014 01:55
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