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AdmiralViscen posted:Nintendo is an entity that exists to return value to shareholders. So, companies can't make dumb choices, and they can't ever go bankrupt, since that wouldn't return value to shareholders, right?
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Jan 18, 2014 20:02
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Suspicious Dish posted:So, companies can't make dumb choices, and they can't ever go bankrupt, since that wouldn't return value to shareholders, right? If they don't want to fail, yeah. They lost nearly 20% of their stock value yesterday, and I really doubt that things will look any better on Monday. Unless there's a whole lot of dumb people who decide that now's the time to buy in for some reason. 
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Jan 18, 2014 20:13
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Does the 360 even have any exclusives on the horizon? Or will they all be multiplat titles and watered down versions of xbone games? Oh, it'll assuredly be multi-plats that are watered down versions of PS4/Xbox One games. That's what Cross-Gen is, that weird middle-stage where you have games that are still being developed for both last-gen and current-gen platforms. Aside from GT6, which seemed like a game that just missed a planned window, no one's really crazy enough to develop PS3 or 360 exclusive games after the launch of the new systems. What I was saying was, even without the tablet controller so that Nintendo could drop Wii U to $199, it's still in competition with PS3 and 360, and those systems will still be seeing new game releases for the next year or two that are versions of the big name games, ports that the Wii U isn't going to be getting. Combine that with the huge back catalog, and a $199 Wii U is still a not very attractive option for someone looking to buy a $200 game console when compared with the PS3 and 360 that you can get at that price point.
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Jan 18, 2014 20:13
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Suspicious Dish posted:So, companies can't make dumb choices, and they can't ever go bankrupt, since that wouldn't return value to shareholders, right? Nintendo can't keep losing money year after year and just shrug their shoulders as if its no big deal. In some cases their executives can actually be breaking the law if it looks like they are not trying.
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Jan 18, 2014 20:17
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thefncrow posted:Oh, it'll assuredly be multi-plats that are watered down versions of PS4/Xbox One games. That's what Cross-Gen is, that weird middle-stage where you have games that are still being developed for both last-gen and current-gen platforms. Honestly it's probably crazier to develop for next-gen consoles than current-gen consoles right now. The 360 and PS3 are still selling fairly well and have a huge install base. It's probably why Dark Souls 2 and Persona 5 are both current-gen only releases.
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Jan 18, 2014 20:18
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thefncrow posted:Aside from GT6, which seemed like a game that just missed a planned window, no one's really crazy enough to develop PS3 or 360 exclusive games after the launch of the new systems. I don't know about the 360, but the PS3 is still getting exclusive games. Mostly from Japan. Persona 5 is the next big PS3 exclusive.
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Jan 18, 2014 20:19
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THE loving MOON posted:If they don't want to fail, yeah. They lost nearly 20% of their stock value yesterday, and I really doubt that things will look any better on Monday. Unless there's a whole lot of dumb people who decide that now's the time to buy in for some reason. So, what if Nintendo fails? What if they put all their effort into beefing up their own platforms, rather than building software for other platforms, and fail? That's likely what's going to happen, whether we want it or not. Nintendo's software development divisions don't have any game development experience for any platforms but their own, and their SDKs are completely different than the ones for competing platforms, which are mostly OpenGL/Direct3D now.
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Jan 18, 2014 20:19
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Suspicious Dish posted:So, what if Nintendo fails? What if they put all their effort into beefing up their own platforms, rather than building software for other platforms, and fail? Why would Nintendo not have any experience with OpenGL/Direct3D? I don't know about the Wii and Wii U, but the Gamecube had a ATI graphics chip in it. Here is the thing that confuses me, you guys act like all of Nintendo's employees work entirely in a vacuum and they only have experience with Nintendo SDKs. That's not even remotely true. I can guarantee no one at Nintendo got a job there without first showing that they have experience with industry standard software and coding practices. Everyone at Nintendo can easily go over to different software and do just fine.
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Jan 18, 2014 20:21
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It's now possible to run pirated games on the 3DS, provided you have an older firmware. Since it has the ability to let you use the latest firmware without overwriting the actual one needed to start the exploit, then they've pretty much cracked the system forever. Apart from three games that use a different type of save system, Animal Crossing and Pokemon X/Y, it can play any game, and from any region. Piracy on the DS was huge, because nothing could have been simpler than putting some ROMs on a microSD card and then into a flash cart. Of course, piracy didn't stop the PSOne, PS2, DS, and Wii from being hugely successful, but it did kill the PSP outside of Japan. For the 3DS it could result in lower software sales if the cards are developed to the point that they can be booted without any procedure, and on any firmware. They're going to be highly sought after by importers, since Nintendo was stupid enough to region-lock the system.
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Jan 18, 2014 20:22
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If you read Iwata saying "we need to re-evaluate being a hardware maker" and say "well obviously they're going to double down on the hardware!" then I dont know what the gently caress you read into that quote.
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Jan 18, 2014 20:22
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I think that Nintendo needs to spiritually break off into two factions: The casual, phone/tablet based Nintendo, and the more "hardcore" oriented home console/handheld Nintendo. It's very clear that the audience that was interested in casual experiences on the Wii/DS is no longer with them and has moved to phone. Providing experiences like Brain Age or Nintendogs or the number of other franchises that they started specifically for the "Touch Generation" series on mobile devices will not cannibalize sales of their main systems (because those games are no longer selling on them anyways), and will reacquaint that audience with Nintendo as an entertainment provider. Meanwhile, this frees up their other systems to have games that are catered towards the "hardcore" crowd, while avoiding the things that come off as fluff to a person interested in F-Zero and Metroid. Nintendo has a ton of experience making these casual, touch-friendly games, and they are absolutely trying to market them to the wrong audience. The people who have bought 3DS and Wii U so far seem generally apathetic to these franchises and I think Nintendo is finally maybe realizing that. VladimirLeninpest fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Jan 18, 2014 |
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Jan 18, 2014 20:25
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I said come in! posted:I don't know about the 360, but the PS3 is still getting exclusive games. Mostly from Japan. Persona 5 is the next big PS3 exclusive. Kabanaw posted:Honestly it's probably crazier to develop for next-gen consoles than current-gen consoles right now. The 360 and PS3 are still selling fairly well and have a huge install base. It's probably why Dark Souls 2 and Persona 5 are both current-gen only releases. Dark Souls 2 is more because of the timing of its release. Persona 5 is only announced for PS3 thus far, but that's because no US release has been announced and the 360 is completely insignificant in Japan. Given that Catherine was seen as an engine test and that came out on 360 and PS3, chances are that Persona 5 gets an Xbox 360 version announced when they make US-relevant announcements. But Atlus is slow and known for pulling this. Persona 4 came out on PS2 in 2008, 2 years after PS3 was out. And, yes, the existing install base of PS3 and 360 are why you get this cross-gen period. The publishers can't ignore those people who haven't moved to the next generation, so those consoles will get games until the transition has been made, at which point development on those consoles will slowly phase back to the level of just getting sports game ports. There was a PS2 version of FIFA 14 released this year, which makes it so damning that FIFA 14 didn't make it to the Wii U despite EA being able to just provide a roster update to the Wii U version of FIFA 13, which is what all the PS2 versions have been doing for years now. thefncrow fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Jan 18, 2014 |
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Jan 18, 2014 20:31
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Suspicious Dish posted:So, companies can't make dumb choices, and they can't ever go bankrupt, since that wouldn't return value to shareholders, right? That isn't what I said. I was responding to someone that said Nintendo will never make games for other platforms. If that is the only way they can make money, they will do it. They will not choose bankruptcy over principle. Their shareholders will not allow that.
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Jan 18, 2014 20:31
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VladimirLeninpest posted:I think that Nintendo needs to spiritually break off into two factions: The casual, phone/tablet based Nintendo, and the more "hardcore" oriented home console/handheld Nintendo. It's very clear that the audience that was interested in casual experiences on the Wii/DS is no longer with them and has moved to phone. Providing experiences like Brain Age or Nintendogs or the number of other franchises that they started specifically for the "Touch Generation" series on mobile devices will not cannibalize sales of their main systems (because those games are no longer selling on them anyways), and will reacquaint that audience with Nintendo as an entertainment provider. Meanwhile, this frees up their other systems to have games that are catered towards the "hardcore" crowd, while avoiding the things that come off as fluff to a person interested in F-Zero and Metroid. The hardcore crowd is pretty much or a super tiny minority at this point, there is no point in catering to them, that's not where the money is anymore.
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Jan 18, 2014 20:33
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It's probably topical to point out that it wasn't that long ago (actually almost exactly a year ago) when Nintendo quietly merged the 3DS and Wii U hardware divisions. I suspect that merger might prove to be quite influential this year for Nintendo.
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Jan 18, 2014 20:34
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I said come in! posted:Why would Nintendo not have any experience with OpenGL/Direct3D? I don't know about the Wii and Wii U, but the Gamecube had a ATI graphics chip in it. The Flipper chip was built by a company called ArtX which got bought out by ATI. It's a very powerful chip with a powerful fixed-function pipeline, but there's no OpenGL or Direct3D driver for it, since it was much more powerful than what those APIs exposed at the time. The graphics API used in the Gamecube is called "GX", and the only public reference I can point you to is in US Patent 7196710, Method and apparatus for buffering graphics data in a graphics system, which makes direct reference to the GX API calls. You can find more on your own by Googling for any "GX" APIs you see lying around there. The Wii uses a variant of GX called "HW2 GX", which has a slight few differences. The Wii U uses an entirely new API with a programmable pipeline and pre-compiled shaders called "GX2". Details are scarce, since although the Wii U has been cracked, it wasn't fun to crack, and the team that did it is entirely burned out. I don't know any public reference about what the GX2 API looks like, but I do know that it's still substantially different than OpenGL or Direct3D.
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Jan 18, 2014 20:35
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Alteisen posted:The hardcore crowd is pretty much or a super tiny minority at this point, there is no point in catering to them, that's not where the money is anymore. Well, the money is not wherever Nintendo is at the moment, and that's the problem. People are clammering for games like F-Zero or Metroid or anything that will provide variety to the Wii U lineup, but instead Nintendo spent a ton of time on Wii Sports U and Wii Fit U, two games that are 100% not going to do as well without the audience that moved to phones. Provide the casual experience (puzzle games, brain age-esque games, nintendogs) to the people on mobile devices and they will buy them. Provide games that gamers want (gently caress, anything, Nintendo has almost no games announced for this year) and it will do a lot more to convince Johnny Xbox to buy a Wii U than if they keep trying to release what made them popular last gen.
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Jan 18, 2014 20:47
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Suspicious Dish posted:The graphics API used in the Gamecube is called "GX", and the only public reference I can point you to is in US Patent 7196710, Method and apparatus for buffering graphics data in a graphics system, which makes direct reference to the GX API calls. You can find more on your own by Googling for any "GX" APIs you see lying around there. GX is essentially a lower-level OpenGL. You can take a look at it here.
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Jan 18, 2014 21:02
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Toady posted:GX is essentially a lower-level OpenGL. You can take a look at it [redacted]. Technically, that's illegal, since libogc is just a decompiled version of the leaked SDKs, and I don't want to talk about :files: on here. Superficially, GX is very similar to OGL/D3D, since lots of the specifics of 3D rendering are the same (it's a lot better than PS2 development), but there's a lot of low-level differences that teams would have to be retrained for. For instance, Nintendo games tend to use CPU postprocessing effects, since the way the Gamecube is architected, the GPU renders to its embedded framebuffer (EFB), and copying that back to CPU memory is cheap and inefficient. On desktop systems, readback is super expensive, since it means that your entire pipeline is stalled until the read completes. (This is why the Dolphin option "EFB to RAM" is almost always required to accurately emulate Nintendo games, but also slows down games so much. If you turn it off, whenever the CPU tries to copy the embedded framebuffer contents over, we just throw it gray pixels and hope nothing goes wrong. Oh, yeah, I should mention that I'm one of the developers of Dolphin. Hi.) On a modern system, you'd render to an framebuffer object (or render target in Direct3D terminology), and then use that to do postprocessing on from the GPU. Indirect texture mapping is another Flipper chip feature that was ahead of its time. Thankfully, there's another US Patent about that if you want to learn the details. This is how the cell shading in Wind Waker works, and while it can be emulated with a shader, the teams that do artwork are very used to having that functionality available. A majority of the artwork in Super Mario Galaxy 2 was done with vertex colors, and the hardware's gourad shading. It's impressive to see what Nintendo's artists can do without textures, and with 2006-era hardware. PC development is also a lot more expensive in general: with embedded hardware, you know that it will all work consistently. With PCs, you have to do a lot more QA and testing across the various kinds of deployments, deal with different audio cards, video cards, drivers, OSes, etc. It's a lot harder to have a consistent product that performs well, and you often have no idea about the details of the platform under you, and GPU vendors aren't too likely to disclose that information. Anyway, I could go on all day about the Gamecube and Wii's architecture. There's lots of really clever, awesome stuff in there. But this isn't the thread for it. Maybe I should post something in YOSPOS about it... hm.
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Jan 18, 2014 21:22
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I don't remember reading about this at the time, but Reggie Fils-Aime mentioned smartphones last December:quote:“It’s a topic that comes up all the time. It’s a debate that’s constantly had,” said Nintendo of America president/chief operating officer Reginald "Reggie" Fils-Aime during a wide-ranging interview with KING 5 News. “We recognize that there are a lot of smartphones and tablets out there, and so what we’re doing is we’re being very smart in how we use these devices as marketing tools for our content.” So they've experimented with third-party games as marketing, but I wonder how it ties into Iwata's talk of a new business structure. The curated app stores won't let you advertise other platforms.
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Jan 18, 2014 21:31
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Toady posted:So they've experimented with third-party games as marketing, but I wonder how it ties into Iwata's talk of a new business structure. The curated app stores won't let you advertise other platforms. I have a Ratchet and Clank iPad app that tells me I can sync it with the PS3 game. Maybe it doesn't technically count as advertising in that case but it still would raise awareness of the PS3 game.
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Jan 18, 2014 21:50
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J-Spot posted:I have a Ratchet and Clank iPad app that tells me I can sync it with the PS3 game. Maybe it doesn't technically count as advertising in that case but it still would raise awareness of the PS3 game. That's very surprising. I mean, someone in CoC had their iOS app rejected because the about panel loaded a webpage that simply mentioned Android on it.
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Jan 18, 2014 21:53
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There's more than one iOS app reviewer. Most times, you can just resubmit your app with no changes to get another reviewer to look at it, and they'll pass it.
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Jan 18, 2014 21:54
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J-Spot posted:I have a Ratchet and Clank iPad app that tells me I can sync it with the PS3 game. Maybe it doesn't technically count as advertising in that case but it still would raise awareness of the PS3 game. Wasn't there that new Pokemon app that got a trademark recently? A Pokewalker-esque app for smart phones that lets you send a Pokemon to your smart phone via wifi to level them up and teach them exclusive moves would sell gangbusters at 5 bucks, and I think that's the kind of brand extension we'll see on smart devices.
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Jan 18, 2014 21:55
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Suspicious Dish posted:There's more than one iOS app reviewer. Most times, you can just resubmit your app with no changes to get another reviewer to look at it, and they'll pass it. It's surprising that Sony got approval, because Apple's review guidelines are explicit: "Apps or metadata that mentions the name of any other mobile platform will be rejected." At the very least, I'd have assumed that mentioning PSN was off-limits. You can't even mention WhatsApp. Toady fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Jan 18, 2014 |
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Jan 18, 2014 22:02
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People say Nintendo doesn't have a Kaz waiting in the wings, but... couldn't they just poach the actual Kaz Harai or someone else from a currently better run corporation?
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Jan 18, 2014 22:09
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So many replies, so many horrible ideas on how to save the Wii U...
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Jan 18, 2014 22:09
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Astro7x posted:So many replies, so many horrible ideas on how to save the Wii U... The best idea is to not attempt to save the wii u. Just leave it on life support and let it die when its time come. Thats probably whats best for nintendo right now.
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Jan 18, 2014 22:12
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Toady posted:It's surprising that Sony got approval, because Apple's review guidelines are explicit: "Apps or metadata that mentions the name of any other mobile platform will be rejected." At the very least, I'd have assumed that mentioning PSN was off-limits. You can't even mention WhatsApp. PS3 isn't in the mobile space, so that may not apply.
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Jan 18, 2014 22:18
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The Taint Reaper posted:Those games make up a small % of what the Wii library had. It certainly wasn't like the PS2 where you maybe had a dozen or so games of the same genre all tied for the number 1 spot. I'm sorry, but I think you missed the point of my post. I thought 'No, that's wrong.' and went over to my game shelf. I had a few longer third party rpgs, and some okay ones like Cursed Mountain but 80% of my collection was Nintendo First Party titles. I never realized how bad the Wii was in terms of software, and I just looked up the release dates of these games(picked these up all in 2012) and a good chunk of these games...are really spaced out. I never realized this but yeah, I don't really think a game like MadWorld can make a game drought go away, I got maybe 20 hours out of it and I can imagine that in 2008 that could be a week for bored Wii owners. Then they don't have jack poo poo for months. Is it a trend for nintendo consoles to be secondary? I have a PS3/Ps4/Wii U and my Wii U is not my primary console. All the games I want aren't on it(or they cost too much for the same thing. Thirty bucks for PS3 Deus Ex vs 60 on Wii U), and the few games I want for it are really good but if I only had a Wii U to play during my downtime, I'd have gone insane. I mean Nintendo's exclusives on it are amazing, 3Dworld was amazing, Pikmin, etc, but these games are not long enough. I doubt most people can get 50+ hours out of Pikmin 3 like I did(multiple playthroughs and challenge mode) because 100% completion was 12 hours for the average gamer. I dunno. This Wii U situation is really worrying for me, and especially all the bad news lately. I want the system to be good enough but is Nintendo going to have to seriously pay for every single title out for it?
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Jan 18, 2014 22:29
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greatn posted:People say Nintendo doesn't have a Kaz waiting in the wings, but... couldn't they just poach the actual Kaz Harai or someone else from a currently better run corporation? I don't think there is really a way to save Nintendo. There's only so much you can do when the simple fact is not enough people want to buy your products.
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Jan 18, 2014 22:34
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I said come in! posted:I don't think there is really a way to save Nintendo. There's only so much you can do when the simple fact is not enough people want to buy your products. People seem to forget that even Apple needed a little help.
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Jan 18, 2014 22:46
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Fly with me posted:People seem to forget that even Apple needed a little help. But don't you also need to be cognizant that your company needs help? I look at Iwata, and despite what he says, it sounds to me like "yeah yeah yeah, impending doom for Nintendo. Let's just poo poo out another HD remake of Zelda. That'll make those whiney fucks happy."
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Jan 18, 2014 22:55
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CowboyAndy posted:But don't you also need to be cognizant that your company needs help? I look at Iwata, and despite what he says, it sounds to me like "yeah yeah yeah, impending doom for Nintendo. Let's just poo poo out another HD remake of Zelda. That'll make those whiney fucks happy." Yeah, he seems really out of touch with what people actually want in a video game console. I thought at first it was just Nintendo playing it safe with its top selling franchises, but after seeing how they handles stuff like Wii Sports Club and Wii Fit U, it feels like they just slapped some HD on what they already had and felt like it would move millions of consoles.
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Jan 18, 2014 22:59
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I said come in! posted:I don't think there is really a way to save Nintendo. There's only so much you can do when the simple fact is not enough people want to buy your products. Except that fact isn't "simple" at all- people aren't buying Nintendo products because the label of Nintendo is on them. The 3DS is selling just fine and so is its software, and reasons for the Wii U's failure has been noted throughout the thread. There's no brand loyalty in the video game market outside of a small hardcore crowd.
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Jan 18, 2014 23:01
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A cool drat horse posted:Except that fact isn't "simple" at all- people aren't buying Nintendo products because the label of Nintendo is on them. The 3DS is selling just fine and so is its software, and reasons for the Wii U's failure has been noted throughout the thread. There's no brand loyalty in the video game market outside of a small hardcore crowd. They slashed 3DS projections from 19 million to 13 million, and also its software. It is flat YoY despite Zelda, Pokemon, and a cheaper new hardware revision. It is tracking well behind DS and I believe is even tracking behind Game Boy Advance. As for the Wii U, the problem is bigger than the individual items brought up in this topic. The real problem is that Nintendo doesn't have a way out and doesn't seem to have the will or capability to address them in a follow-up device.
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Jan 18, 2014 23:04
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Reading all this stuff on people's ideas to fix Nintendo is kind of hilarioushttp://couchsquad.com/the-wii-us-unsuccessful-start-is-a-marketing-problem/ posted:
Yup, the lovely second screen experience of Wii TVii is going to save them... Forbes also released an article on the 5 things Nintendo should announce right now, which was basically. -Fire Iwata -Fix accounts so you can redownload software. -Release an iOS/Android app with every Nintendo game ever on the NES, SNES, N64 and Gamecube. -Announce firm release dates for all games -Price drop to $200-$250
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Jan 18, 2014 23:11
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Microsoft's doing pretty well. I mean, have you seen Titanfall? Nintendo could benefit from trying out some of Microsoft's techniques.
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Jan 18, 2014 23:16
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Astro7x posted:Reading all this stuff on people's ideas to fix Nintendo is kind of hilarious Live sporting events, especially the NFL, also draw huge crowds and lots of families and lots of groups in households watching, so it's always a good idea to advertise during them, whether you think there's crossover or not. When we're talking double digit millions watching every individual game, to ignore that is to just flat out be ignoring America itself. It's just loving dumb. Selling the sports side of it, though, probably not worth it. Just general ads about the system and software are fine. Even if you get services like MLB.TV and NHL Gamecenter, the sports fan will say "well what sports games can I -play- on it?" And there really aren't any. Just buy a spot during a football game or March Madness game and let people know it exists at all. Heck why not buy an ad during the Super Bowl? You know Microsoft and Sony are going to have an ad somewhere in there. The Xbox One is an official NFL sponsor. You're not going to have any more eyeballs aimed at a TV than you will that night. That is maximum eyeball. The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Jan 18, 2014 |
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Jan 18, 2014 23:33
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Forbes also thought a satire article where Iwata said the problem was Nintendo fans weren't having enough children was true.
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Jan 18, 2014 23:33
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