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Cardiovorax posted:I wouldn't make any bets that you will actually get to the Zerg campaign. Explain stuff now, while you have the chance. It's less a "we're going to wait until Heart of the Swarm to discuss Zerg units" and more of a "holy poo poo, zergling, banelings, roaches, hydralisks, mutalisks, and ultras all in the same mission? PLUS bases?!" sort of thing. We'll go over stuff, don't worry!  my dad posted:Zerg-infested ground that is needed for Zerg structures to be built and greatly increases Zerg movement speed and regeneration rate. Movement and vision is much more important than the regeneration bonus. Almost all zerg land units move ~30% faster on creep, while they get a regen bonus of 1 HP/4 seconds while on creep. More important, especially for multiplayer, is that everything that creates creep gives map vision, plus your units move much faster on it, plus Terran and Protoss cannot build structures on creep.
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Feb 7, 2014 21:39
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Synastren posted:Movement and vision is much more important than the regeneration bonus. Almost all zerg land units move ~30% faster on creep, while they get a regen bonus of 1 HP/4 seconds while on creep. More important, especially for multiplayer, is that everything that creates creep gives map vision, plus your units move much faster on it, plus Terran and Protoss cannot build structures on creep. Wow, no wonder they took over so quickly. They sound pretty broken. But, to be fair, I don't know what advantages Terrans or Protoss have.
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Feb 7, 2014 21:59
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Critical Terran structures can lift off and relocate, which makes moving bases when resources run low really easy. Protoss buildings don't require continuing attention from a worker to keep construction going, so a single worker can spawn an entire base as efficiently as 10 can. Given enough resources, of course. E: I guess zerg buildings also don't require continuing attention from a worker for construction, but with zerg buildings, the worker literally becomes the building and you lose the worker, so details. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Feb 7, 2014 |
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Feb 7, 2014 22:06
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RareAcumen posted:Wow, no wonder they took over so quickly. They sound pretty broken. But, to be fair, I don't know what advantages Terrans or Protoss have. The thing is, the Zerg need to actively spread the creep, and some of their units are horrible when they're not on it. The reason that the Zerg and creep spread so fast in that mission is because of the spores dropping from the sky, and those are a campaign only thing. That said, I've only played the Original Starcraft (and BW) and my only knowledge of SC2 comes from watching tournament finals, so I might be wrong.
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Feb 7, 2014 22:06
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Hydras in particular were completely useless off of creep in WoL. I think they leveled it out somewhat now, though. Creep is spread by chaining those tumors out one by one. Each tumor gives map vision, and in multiplayer you need cloaking detection to find and destroy them. Basically they turned it from a strict limitation to a double-edged sword, which I really like.
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Feb 7, 2014 22:10
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Stimpacks because they are amazing and Agria so you can show off Firebats briefly while they're still barely mediocre and not useless.
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Feb 7, 2014 22:17
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In SC1, creep was only spread by building structures called creep colonies and since creep was only useful for buildings, you usually wouldn't bother unless you really wanted some defensive structures at some choke point. In SC2, zerg players don't have access to the zerg meteors seen in the campaign, but they can spread creep by having overlords drop it under them (overlords essentially being slow moving, flying supply depots) or dropping creep tumors that can each spawn another 1 creep tumor each after something like 30-45 seconds. Basically, zerg can spread creep fast as hell if they want to, but an opponent can also stunt it pretty hard if they can get some mid-field control and either start picking off overlords or breaking the creep tumor chains by killing off the forward-most ones.
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Feb 7, 2014 22:34
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Hmmmm, I wonder how well those creep meteors would work if they were actually available in multiplayer. Not sure how you would go about dropping them though. Maybe the lair or hive could build and launch them to a location you have line of sight. At any rate it will make the balance discussions light up even more gloriously than with the suggested 25 gas hydra change.
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Feb 7, 2014 23:02
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ArkhamPraetor posted:so you can show off Firebats briefly while they're still barely mediocre and not useless. It's such a shame, because Firebats are cool. But yeah, not really that great a unit.
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Feb 7, 2014 23:04
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Poil posted:Hmmmm, I wonder how well those creep meteors would work if they were actually available in multiplayer. Not sure how you would go about dropping them though. Maybe the lair or hive could build and launch them to a location you have line of sight. At any rate it will make the balance discussions light up even more gloriously than with the suggested 25 gas hydra change. It would depend entirely on what restrictions there were on the targeting, because blocking your opponents from build locations would be pretty powerful.
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Feb 7, 2014 23:08
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Voting for Stimpacks as the upgrade and The Evacuation for the mission. Let's give Firebats a chance to show off their propane and propane accessories. Also, because we get Marauders in multiplayer, I'd rather we have fun with the campaign-exclusive Firebats first. I also like that they reference that the Hyperion used to be Mengsk's personal flagship. I think the novels may reference that somewhere, but the original Starcraft never makes mention of that little tidbit ANYWHERE. Kind of gives an extra reason for Mengsk to hate Raynor.
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Feb 7, 2014 23:08
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I'm not a mod, but this is a pretty good LP so far.  I was planning to play this myself recently, but I lost the authenticator that was attached to my account. My punishment for playing WoW in the past, I guess. I'll vote Stims and Evacuation.
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Feb 7, 2014 23:15
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Green Intern posted:It would depend entirely on what restrictions there were on the targeting, because blocking your opponents from build locations would be pretty powerful. I'm not sure it'd do much as just a creep bomb, you can already stall out expansions some with burrowed zerglings and creep dropping overlords, it just takes a bit more prep and a lot less timing.
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Feb 7, 2014 23:17
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Psion posted:It's such a shame, because Firebats are cool. But yeah, not really that great a unit. This is one of the problems I have with Wings of Liberty. Most of the campaign-only units aren't very useful. The game does try to make each mission where a unit is introduced showcase that unit's strengths, but in the end you're stuck with a lot of units you just won't build. Firebats aren't the last unit that I found myself asking "Why would I build these when I can build X instead that's cheaper/better at the same job?"
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Feb 7, 2014 23:24
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Most of the campaign only returning units bar the Medic and one other have been supplanted by better, if more specialized, versions. There's only one campaign only unit that I'm actually kind of dissapointed about, it seems so cool but it's too late in the tech tree and way too specialized to be useful in a real game. I still research it every time just for the ridiculousness of it, though.
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Feb 7, 2014 23:35
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Cythereal posted:This is one of the problems I have with Wings of Liberty. Most of the campaign-only units aren't very useful. The game does try to make each mission where a unit is introduced showcase that unit's strengths, but in the end you're stuck with a lot of units you just won't build. Firebats aren't the last unit that I found myself asking "Why would I build these when I can build X instead that's cheaper/better at the same job?" Yeah, that's the reason why they're not part of multiplayer. I think one reason Blizzard included them in the campaign was to point out that the classic units no longer really had a good place. There is one brand new campaign-only unit later on that I do like a lot, though.
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Feb 8, 2014 00:51
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Question (never played SC2): is creep associated with any one Zerg faction, or would Zerg players have full creep advantage on the creep of a hostile Zerg player? I'm assuming that there's some limitation and that your Zerg army doesn't have sight of every Zerg base on the map, friend or foe.
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Feb 8, 2014 01:20
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Patter Song posted:Question (never played SC2): is creep associated with any one Zerg faction, or would Zerg players have full creep advantage on the creep of a hostile Zerg player? I'm assuming that there's some limitation and that your Zerg army doesn't have sight of every Zerg base on the map, friend or foe. It's not the creep itself that has sight, it's the things that produce it. It spreads from certain structures, or your Overlords can dump it.
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Feb 8, 2014 01:23
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my dad posted:The thing is, the Zerg need to actively spread the creep, and some of their units are horrible when they're not on it. The reason that the Zerg and creep spread so fast in that mission is because of the spores dropping from the sky, and those are a campaign only thing. I was more talking about from the story perspective, if that makes any sense. It seems like they showed up and then boom five minutes later and a good city-sized area is Creeped. No wonder everyone got so worked up when they showed up. If this goes like I expect RTSes to go, I wonder what the zerg missions will be like. Did someone give any mention of why Tychus was arrested? Also, yay, people are talking about the game mechanics more!
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Feb 8, 2014 01:27
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Seyser Koze posted:It's not the creep itself that has sight, it's the things that produce it. It spreads from certain structures, or your Overlords can dump it. Yeah, though to his other question creep is creep and yes you can take advantage of the creep of another person playing zerg in a few ways.
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Feb 8, 2014 01:28
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As far as the story is concerned, yeah. The zerg are basically all the worst parts of a Zombie Plague, Gray Goo, and the Borg all rolled up into one. They can assimilate anything into their biomass, if they eat something worthwhile they can incorporate it into either an upgrade to one of their existing strains, or a new strain entirely. They can infest humans too, like they did to Kerrigan, and that's one of the least terrifying things they can do once they get a hold of a bunch of humans.
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Feb 8, 2014 01:32
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RareAcumen posted:Did someone give any mention of why Tychus was arrested?
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Feb 8, 2014 01:36
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Firebats didn't fit that well into SC1 either. The only thing I remember them effectively countering were Zealots. They were good against other unit types (like Zerglings), but Firebats required too much time to spin up to make them worthwhile.
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Feb 8, 2014 01:42
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In story terms (based solely on SC1, I have no knowledge of SC2), the Zerg are both highly dangerous and somewhat pitiful. They have a hive mind and the most dominant personality in the Swarm can seize control of everything in it. This is to their detriment: after the Protoss killed the Zerg Overmind, the Zerg swarm descended into anarchy before falling into a succession war between Kerrigan and an infant new Overmind, and, in one of the most clever plots, the Terran UED enslaved the new Zerg Overmind and attempted to bring Zerg everywhere to heel (Kerrigan had the Overmind assassinated, giving her indisputable supremacy in the Swarm, but the UED's strategy was pretty much the only one that could crush the Zerg). Long ago the precursor race, the Xel'Naga (whose artifacts we're digging up), lifted both the Zerg and the Protoss to intelligence. There have been more than one characters, most notably the first Overmind and Kerrigan's ex-advisor Samir Duran, who have suggested that a Zerg assimilation of the Protoss would create the perfect race, a new Xel'Naga.
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Feb 8, 2014 01:53
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Just found this LP and I'm so glad. I loved SC1 back in the day and never played 2 due to having a poo poo computer, and I'm excited to see the changes. As much as I want to take the paragon option and save the people in danger, let's see the new toys and Smash and Grab. I guess I'll take the popular option and pick stimpacks for upgrades. I never used the things enough because I was a terribly mediocre player who could never use the things correctly, but you guys seem like you know what you're doing, so stim it up.
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Feb 8, 2014 03:22
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Patter Song posted:In story terms (based solely on SC1, I have no knowledge of SC2), the Zerg are both highly dangerous and somewhat pitiful. They have a hive mind and the most dominant personality in the Swarm can seize control of everything in it. This is to their detriment: after the Protoss killed the Zerg Overmind, the Zerg swarm descended into anarchy before falling into a succession war between Kerrigan and an infant new Overmind, and, in one of the most clever plots, the Terran UED enslaved the new Zerg Overmind and attempted to bring Zerg everywhere to heel (Kerrigan had the Overmind assassinated, giving her indisputable supremacy in the Swarm, but the UED's strategy was pretty much the only one that could crush the Zerg). It should be noted that the Xel'Naga were responsible for creating the Overmind and making the Zerg into a hive-mind but were NOT responsible for their ability to assimilate the traits of other creatures. According to the original SC's manual the Larvae are the Zerg that are actually anything like their original form. Without going into spoilers Heart of the Swarm sort of modifies this, basically suggesting that it was both true and not really telling the whole story. Amusing note, the Xel'Naga were in fact wiped out by the Zerg. The Zerg assimilated the essence of a creature that could survive in space (which is the core genus of the Overlord) and used that as a springboard to attack and destroy them. The only one of those upgrades I'd normally buy is Combat Shields since it addresses a very real problem with Marines. Evacuation is the better map to do now because Smash and Grab is much more hilarious if you've got a certain unit that's not currently on offer and that means not doing it yet. Feinne fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Feb 8, 2014 |
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Feb 8, 2014 04:02
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Save them peeps and get those stimpaks.
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Feb 8, 2014 04:02
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TwoPair posted:As much as I want to take the paragon option and save the people in danger, let's see the new toys and Smash and Grab. Fortunately, missions don't go away. Agria will still be there afterwards. Some missions become significantly easier if you grab the right unit from a different mission series first. Happily, marauders are one of those units that never goes out of style, at least in my experience. Marines, marauders, and medics can steamroll most maps.
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Feb 8, 2014 04:08
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As far as I know, Creep is usable by all zerg. Which used to (and probably still does) make for great fun with Nydus Canals
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Feb 8, 2014 04:44
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Veloxyll posted:As far as I know, Creep is usable by all zerg. Which used to (and probably still does) make for great fun with Nydus Canals Creep itself doesn't have an owner, so all zerg get to use it. There are a few early all-in attacks in zerg vs zerg that rely on that (early spawning pool to allow zerglings -> make zerglings instead of workers -> build "defensive" structures in your opponent's base while your early zerglings attack), but generally it doesn't matter too much. Zerg tends to not spread creep very aggressively in zvz, opting instead to spread creep to their own bases for defensive mobility. I am also sad to report that Nydus works completely differently in SC2 than in Brood War.  edit: By the way, for those of you who might be interested in watching some competitive StarCraft 2, rip zeez is going to have a clan war next Saturday (Feb 15), which will definitely be casted. If the thread is interested, I'd be happy to relate more details.
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Feb 8, 2014 04:50
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Patter Song posted:There have been more than one characters, most notably the first Overmind and Kerrigan's ex-advisor Samir Duran, who have suggested that a Zerg assimilation of the Protoss would create the perfect race, a new Xel'Naga. Synastren posted:I am also sad to report that Nydus works completely differently in SC2 than in Brood War.
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Feb 8, 2014 04:50
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Drakyn posted:Though the new method IS hilarious. And expensive.
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Feb 8, 2014 04:53
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Man, now I can't wait to see these Protoss guys show up in the game. I really wish someone had done the First Starcraft game so I could get some backstory on this stuff and not have to ask a bunch of probably super-obvious questions. Cuz I'm so lost on this Queen of Blades stuff or who Jim Raynor is supposed to be. 
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Feb 8, 2014 06:27
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RareAcumen posted:Man, now I can't wait to see these Protoss guys show up in the game. I really wish someone had done the First Starcraft game so I could get some backstory on this stuff and not have to ask a bunch of probably super-obvious questions. Cuz I'm so lost on this Queen of Blades stuff or who Jim Raynor is supposed to be. Well, if it makes you feel any better, Blizzard has a habit of retconning the poo poo out of the stories of previous games in a franchise. Warcraft is probably one of the most retconned IPs this side of comics, so you aren't missing that much. Besides, the gameplay in the SC2 campaign is much more engaging and interesting to both play and watch. Don't worry! You'll get filled in on things as we move forward, and if you are really interested, you can always look things up on the Wikia, just be advised that there are some pretty major spoilers for SC2 in there.
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Feb 8, 2014 06:30
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Synastren posted:Well, if it makes you feel any better, Blizzard has a habit of retconning the poo poo out of the stories of previous games in a franchise. Warcraft is probably one of the most retconned IPs this side of comics, so you aren't missing that much. Besides, the gameplay in the SC2 campaign is much more engaging and interesting to both play and watch. Doesn't Warcraft have like seven different games out or something? Or expansions? Either way, I can't say I'm too surprised about that. MMOs always seemed like a huge mess to keep coherent in the best of times. I think this got ignored during all the voting but can you zoom in the camera on the buildings when they're being put together? I'd like to have a better look at it. Synastren posted:Don't worry! You'll get filled in on things as we move forward, and if you are really interested, you can always look things up on the Wikia, just be advised that there are some pretty major spoilers for SC2 in there. Yyyyyeaahhhh I'm gonna not. It may not be worth it but I'm gonna try to not end up spoiled on this.
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Feb 8, 2014 06:37
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RareAcumen posted:Man, now I can't wait to see these Protoss guys show up in the game. I really wish someone had done the First Starcraft game so I could get some backstory on this stuff and not have to ask a bunch of probably super-obvious questions. Cuz I'm so lost on this Queen of Blades stuff or who Jim Raynor is supposed to be. See: The Draenei. "Sargeras was corrupted by the Eredar." became "The Eredar were corrupted by Sargeras. The few who resisted fled and became the Draenei." Also Blood Elves are totally Space pirates. Basically - Jim Raynor was Marshal on Mar Sara. Then the Zerg showed up, and the Confederacy didn't do anything about it. And imprisoned Jim + co when they fought the Zerg. Then the Sons of Korhal, led by Acturus Mensgk offered to help Jim evacuate the planet. During their campaign, Jim met one of the Sons' Ghosts, named Sarah Kerrigan. Turns out the Confederacy had a way to call the Swarm in on planets. Mengsk stole these and deployed some on Tarsonis, capital of the Confederacy. When Kerrigan was down there protecting the swarm from the Protoss while the swarm built up to critical mass, Mengsk abandoned Kerrigan. Mengsk then declared himself Emperor of the new Terran Dominion. Jim Raynor said nuts to that, stole the Dominion Flagship, and escaped Tarsonis. The Zerg over-ran Tarsonis, and the Overmind applied Zerg Science to Kerrigan, and mutated her into the Queen of Blades. While this was happening, Kerrigan called out to Jim, where he got to see her emergence. Then the Overmind died on the Protoss Homeworld, and after a succession crisis, Kerrigan took control of the Swarm. After the events of Broodwar, Kerrigan has been building up the Swarm for reasons. I think that covers the major plot points. Veloxyll fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Feb 8, 2014 |
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Feb 8, 2014 06:39
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RareAcumen posted:I think this got ignored during all the voting but can you zoom in the camera on the buildings when they're being put together? I'd like to have a better look at it. Yeah, no problem, I'll show a building being constructed during the next video. I think you guys are selling the firebat a little short. It's true that you can just go through the game with marine/medic + new unit, but that's a little boring. Most units have their niche, and I want to try to show them off as best I can. I can think of a couple units I probably won't be making outside of their specific mission, but the firebat isn't one of them.
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Feb 8, 2014 07:02
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Also technically the Xel'Naga "uplifted" two different species... the Protoss were the first species to recieve the uplift and ended up almost annihilating themselves in the Aeon of Strife. They underwent a significant social change and only used certain types of psyonic energies, while a small splinter faction fled and used the other type (severing themselves from a communal link If I remember correctly). In the first Starcraft, a point was made that Zerg could only really "die" if killed by a member of the splinter faction because of... some reason. And as part of the Overminds end, the protoss homeworld was invaded and utterly RUINED by the Zerg, leading to the survivors of the main part of the race linking up with their splinter buddies and hiding. As to Raynor? Like Velox said, he started out as an old school Law Man. At the time Terrans were run by the Confederacy (as in "Confederate States of America" stars and bars Confederacy), and Jim ended up with a Zerg infestation on his planet. The only option to survive was to turn to the Sons of Korhal, a rebel faction under Mengsk. Mengsk saves them and you do several operations to get psychic macguffins for Mengsks plan. You get the macguffins and attack the Terrin capital world, setting down the macguffins to summon the Zerg to eat the entire Terran government, so he could move in and take over. Raynor had it out with Mengsk over this and took off with the forces that were loyal to him, while Mengsk declared that he was the new leader of all the Terran's in "A New Dominion" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9WnmCKWjvc <--- the ending cinematic for the Terran Campaign for the original game. Kerrigan was a Ghost under the Sons of Korhol (and Mengsk). As part of Mengsk gambit to wipe out the Confederate leadership, he left Kerrigan to be killed on Tarsonis. She was already a powerful psychic (humanity had been 'awakening' to psychic powers for a long time, and you had to be psychic to become a Ghost... like Warhammer 40k's black ships), and the Overmind just infested her rather than killing her. Due to the infestation she became the most powerful psychic force in the sector minus the overmind, and did...stuff... (I don't remember the zerg campaign from Starcraft ok!?) Her time to shine was in the Expansion, Brood Wars, where she manipulated and connived her way to having utter domination of the entire swarm (the Overmind's death left all the chieftains to vie for dominion, most ended up merging into a New overmind that she had killed). As part of that conniving she killed a Protoss buddy of Raynors (Fenix) which led to him stating he was going to kill her. Kerrigan also wears the moniker of "The Queen of Blades". In the original game, any romance between the two was basically subtext. They could have just been two best buddies who happened to be other genders, and not a single line would have changed. That's why people got a little annoyed when she pops up as the love interest, because it had only barely been hinted at, with nothing really concrete to build upon from the first game. As it stands at the start of this game, Kerrigan hasn't really been seen or heard from since the end of the Brood Wars, having mostly withdrawn her forces to get them fully under control (and wipe out the remains of a fleet Earth had sent to take over the sector), while Raynor has been waging a mostly guerrilla style war against Mengsk. Although he's suffering Spider Man syndrome in that even his good deeds are given bad press. Should be noted that the first game had a pretty thick book of backstory built into it... when companies actually gave us those instruction books *sigh*
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Feb 8, 2014 07:19
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Matt Horner is the best Terran character.
J.theYellow fucked around with this message at 07:33 on Feb 8, 2014 |
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Feb 8, 2014 07:28
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Voting Stim Packs and Smash and Grab. Looking forward to those Marine splits
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Feb 8, 2014 07:38
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