Bitcoin: We've reached the end of the postchain.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > Bitcoin: We've reached the end of the postchain.

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Heresiarch: Oct 6, 2005; Literature is not exhaustible, for the sufficient and simple reason that no single book is. A book is not an isolated being: it is a relationship, an axis of innumerable relationships.

also somebody is claiming that the double-spend attempt Robawesome found wasn't made using the transaction mallability problem and is asking how i found that transaction. where'd you get that, Robawesome?

# ? Feb 11, 2014 20:56

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# ? May 13, 2024 15:16

dimebag dinkman: Feb 20, 2003

transfatphobic posted:

and scene

# ? Feb 11, 2014 20:58

OJ MIST 2 THE DICK: Sep 11, 2008; Anytime I need to see your face I just close my eyes
And I am taken to a place
Where your crystal minds and magenta feelings
Take up shelter in the base of my spine
Sweet like a chica cherry cola
-Cheap Trick; Nap Ghost

Cold on a Cob posted:

not sure what's funnier, that this is a known flaw that they told everyone to work around, or that nobody did so

latter

the solution is "don't trust untrusted data"

in a protocol that assumes nothing is trustworthy until a few trees are dead to verify it

as an actual bug id probably having a hard time getting funding for a fix bc the work around is so simple and the fix would be magnitudes more expensive

then again i also am mostly a hw side and no one is paying me to respin old boards when we hit eol for components

# ? Feb 11, 2014 20:59

theflyingorc: Jun 28, 2008; ANY GOOD OPINIONS THIS POSTER CLAIMS TO HAVE ARE JUST PROOF THAT BULLYING WORKS; Young Orc

ayn rand hand job posted:

latter

the solution is "don't trust untrusted data"

in a protocol that assumes nothing is trustworthy until a few trees are dead to verify it

as an actual bug id probably having a hard time getting funding for a fix bc the work around is so simple and the fix would be magnitudes more expensive

then again i also am mostly a hw side and no one is paying me to respin old boards when we hit eol for components

It's a drat terrible programming practice to leave holes in your product like that with the justification of "your implementation MUST DO THIS". A much simpler solution is "don't give the user the wrong impression in the first place."

Basically, at this point, the transaction ID is...nothing. A transaction's Unique ID is a combination of stats about it, not the transaction ID. That's a bad practice, and I'd be ashamed of any code I wrote that did it.

note: Much of the code I have written had far worse practices than that. i am always ashamed

# ? Feb 11, 2014 21:02

Shifty Pony: Dec 28, 2004; Up ta somethin'

Dex posted:

that man stole my kidney to make a point about the inherent oppression in regulating the organ trade industry

but that's a known issue with having kidneys.

# ? Feb 11, 2014 21:05

Dr. Honked: Jan 9, 2011; eat it you slaaaaaaag

keep your kidneys offline

# ? Feb 11, 2014 21:06

stoutfish: Oct 8, 2012; by zen death robot

uploading my cyber kidneys to hold my cyber coins

oh cyber piss

# ? Feb 11, 2014 21:07

neutral milf hotel: Oct 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

Shifty Pony posted:

but that's a known issue with having kidneys.

there's a wiki page on this, so we're not culpable. gently caress you got both my kidneys

# ? Feb 11, 2014 21:07

winvirus: Jan 23, 2009; You only delay the inevitable. All of this island will soon belong to me.

i keep my kidneys in cold storage myself

# ? Feb 11, 2014 21:07

anthonypants: May 6, 2007; by Nyc_Tattoo; Dinosaur Gum

hey no one's posted a wall of text in a while so here's one from the verge on the "bitcoin bump"

The Bitcoin bump: stores turn to virtual currency for a marketing boost posted:

Accepting Bitcoin brings press and a surge of geeky customers
By Adrianne Jeffries on February 11, 2014 11:03 am

Sapan Shah started accepting the virtual currency Bitcoin at his Subway franchise in the Philadelphia suburb of Allentown in November. Almost immediately, people began trickling in from out of state just to experience the novelty of buying a sandwich with their digital coins.

Andrew Torba and a friend drove 45 minutes. "During the ride we spoke about the potential Bitcoin had to completely revolutionize global commerce and finance, which only heightened the anticipation to make our first purchase," he wrote in a blog post titled "I Bought Subway with Bitcoin and It Was Awesome."

Shah started getting attention on Reddit, then from local media. Two weeks after he started accepting Bitcoin, he was on CNBC. His story has also been featured by Yahoo, The Washington Post, CNN, and Entrepreneur magazine.

It�s the Bitcoin bump.

"WE DIDN�T REALLY EXPECT THIS ONSLAUGHT OF PUBLICITY."

The virtual currency, which approximates cash on the internet, now powers an economy worth around $7 billion. Much of that value just comes from people buying and selling the currency itself, however; merchants that accept Bitcoin are still relatively rare. That means anyone who does gets a bit of extra attention from virtual currency fans � and the press.

When real estate developer Jack Sommer decided to accept Bitcoin in addition to traditional currencies for his $7.85 million mansion in Las Vegas, he didn�t do much to spread the news: he added "Bitcoin Accepted" to his YouTube ad. The number of views doubled nearly overnight.

Sommer and his wife Laura were astonished: their son had advised them that they would get "more exposure" for the property, but they had no idea it would bring on the news crews. They�ve had a couple inquiries about buying the house in Bitcoin, but more than that, the house has now been featured everywhere from local media all the way up to Fox News. "We didn�t really expect this onslaught of publicity," Laura says.

An anonymous Bitcoin user drove two hours to get to Shah�s Subway. The YouTube video of the experience has more than 10,000 views.

The first wave of Bitcoin acceptance was from people like Shah who are deeply embedded in the Bitcoin scene; the second wave was from people like the Sommers who were converted by a true believer. The third wave, however, is made up of opportunists.

Shortly after The Verge covered the Sommer house, a real estate broker wrote in about a mansion for sale in Paris for $10 million. He had convinced his client to accept Bitcoin and was hoping for similar coverage. "My listing surpasses the previous record listing of Mr. Sommer," he wrote. "I�m sure that this is newsworthy to yourself, for the same reason Mr. Sommer's listing was."

The broker is not unique. There has been a deluge of "firsts" to Bitcoin acceptance: the first car dealership, first winery, first pro sports team. "I was wondering if one of you would like to do a short piece on Sheridans� acceptance of Bitcoin," a representative recently wrote to The Verge, noting that Sheridans is the first UK law firm to accept payment in Bitcoin.

SOME OF THIS ADOPTION IS A BIT DISINGENUOUS

Some of this adoption is a bit disingenuous. The dealership, for example, made the customer convert his bitcoins into dollars before the sale. Merchant adoption is a good thing even if it�s just a marketing gimmick, according to advocates who hope to see Bitcoin become a universal currency. But what happens when accepting Bitcoin becomes common enough that it stops grabbing headlines? Will merchants continue to take it, given that it�s still a niche currency that is less convenient than cash?

There are reasons to accept Bitcoin besides publicity. In the past, Bitcoin�s volatile price made it unappealing to merchants. Now that it is possible to immediately convert Bitcoin into other currencies, that downside has been made obsolete. The US government has also indicated that using Bitcoin for commerce is sanctioned, so the legal ambiguity is gone. Accepting Bitcoin also allows merchants to avoid expensive credit card fees and "chargebacks," refunds merchants are forced to issue in the case of fraud.

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN BITCOIN STOPS GRABBING HEADLINES?

Overstock.com recently began accepting Bitcoin; it reportedly did $130,000 worth of sales in the currency in the first day. The company is now considering investing further in Bitcoin, possibly paying vendors and employees in the virtual currency.

Online merchants have it much easier, as in-person Bitcoin transactions are still a bit unwieldy. While there are many Android apps that will do the job, iPhone owners face a challenge since Apple does not allow Bitcoin apps in the App Store. The technologically innovative Bitcoin developer community is hard at work overcoming these hurdles. Whether the virtual currency can hold the world�s attention is another matter.

# ? Feb 11, 2014 21:08

Shifty Pony: Dec 28, 2004; Up ta somethin'

BeOSPOS posted:

there's a wiki page on this, so we're not culpable. gently caress you got both my kidneys

also got some other guy's kidney because he didn't sufficiently armor his flank and really that's just asking for me to take it.

# ? Feb 11, 2014 21:09

theflyingorc: Jun 28, 2008; ANY GOOD OPINIONS THIS POSTER CLAIMS TO HAVE ARE JUST PROOF THAT BULLYING WORKS; Young Orc

listen, if mtgox didn't want its bitcoins stolen, it wouldn't have been dressed like that

# ? Feb 11, 2014 21:10

Adult Sword Owner: Jun 19, 2011; u deserve diploma for sublime comedy expertise

Shifty Pony posted:

also got some other guy's kidney because he didn't sufficiently armor his flank and really that's just asking for me to take it.

i didnt even need that kidney but i had to prove a point

# ? Feb 11, 2014 21:11

duTrieux.: Oct 9, 2003

Heresiarch posted:

i know, it's just really funny that blockchain.info is calling it that

also it allows me to set up this which ought to piss some people off to no end

lol

# ? Feb 11, 2014 21:14

Dex: May 26, 2006; Quintuple x!!!

Would not escrow again.

VERY MISLEADING!

ok gently caress kidneys, i have built my own altorgan to do the same thing but even better, and i'm sure my body will catch on and start using it any day now

# ? Feb 11, 2014 21:14

anthonypants: May 6, 2007; by Nyc_Tattoo; Dinosaur Gum

theflyingorc posted:

Basically, at this point, the transaction ID is...nothing. A transaction's Unique ID is a combination of stats about it, not the transaction ID. That's a bad practice, and I'd be ashamed of any code I wrote that did it.

if those stats are always going to be unique then why not just make a transaction id out of the hash of those stats

and of course they aren't always going to be unique but that's the workaround they want everyone to use

# ? Feb 11, 2014 21:14

stoutfish: Oct 8, 2012; by zen death robot

i think it's wrong to have regulations against harvesting and selling organs

if the free market is providing a market for it, who are we to judge?

# ? Feb 11, 2014 21:15

Robawesome: Jul 22, 2005

Heresiarch posted:

also somebody is claiming that the double-spend attempt Robawesome found wasn't made using the transaction mallability problem and is asking how i found that transaction. where'd you get that, Robawesome?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=457546.0

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1xkp1e/recent_large_volume_double_spending/

One of those, i think

# ? Feb 11, 2014 21:21

Adult Sword Owner: Jun 19, 2011; u deserve diploma for sublime comedy expertise

stoutfish posted:

i think it's wrong to have regulations against harvesting and selling organs

if the free market is providing a market for it, who are we to judge?

if people dont want their organs or are irresponsible with them, then they should go to someone who wants an organ and will treat it better

# ? Feb 11, 2014 21:22

unpacked robinhood: Feb 18, 2013; by Fluffdaddy

I don't think this was posted here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhIz2Dz_KEE

# ? Feb 11, 2014 21:23

Robawesome: Jul 22, 2005

[�]tulipfutures -4 points 43 minutes ago*

Coke and Pepsi should just work together right? Ask me if I'm surprised that bitcoiners don't understand that competition is GOOD for business. It forces businesses to compete for consumer dollars, otherwise it's a monopoly and they can charge what they want.

You should really take an "introduction to economics" class if you're going to be involved with bitcoin. It's really embarassing that you don't even understand the fundamentals, and funny that you got 3 upvotes for it.

[�]yonkfu 2 points 32 minutes ago

Your kidding yourself if you don't think coke and Pepsi work together

# ? Feb 11, 2014 21:26

double sulk: Jul 2, 2010

unpacked robinhood posted:

I don't think this was posted here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhIz2Dz_KEE

it was

# ? Feb 11, 2014 21:27

double sulk: Jul 2, 2010

it's still funny though

# ? Feb 11, 2014 21:27

stoutfish: Oct 8, 2012; by zen death robot

Robawesome posted:

[–]tulipfutures -4 points 43 minutes ago*

Coke and Pepsi should just work together right? Ask me if I'm surprised that bitcoiners don't understand that competition is GOOD for business. It forces businesses to compete for consumer dollars, otherwise it's a monopoly and they can charge what they want.

You should really take an "introduction to economics" class if you're going to be involved with bitcoin. It's really embarassing that you don't even understand the fundamentals, and funny that you got 3 upvotes for it.

[–]yonkfu 2 points 32 minutes ago

Your kidding yourself if you don't think coke and Pepsi work together

lol

# ? Feb 11, 2014 21:27

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

coke and pepsi are just nsa government shills anyway. you delusional loving goons.

# ? Feb 11, 2014 21:29

Same Great Paste: Jan 14, 2006

so we're all agreed, coke and pepsi teamed up with the reverse vampires

# ? Feb 11, 2014 21:35

unpacked robinhood: Feb 18, 2013; by Fluffdaddy

some coiner posts his own physical coin design

quote:

[�]donniesf 2 points 6 heures de �a

Good job +/u/dogetipbot 10 doge verify

[�]dogetipbot 1 point 6 heures de �a

[wow so verify]: /u/donniesf -> /u/karmedian �10.000000 Dogecoin(s) ($0.0163333) [help]

[�]lifeboatz 7 points 4 heures de �a

"Good job, I'll throw two pennies on the floor. I hope they're worth your time to pick up."

(Compliment + insult)

# ? Feb 11, 2014 22:05

Heavy_D: Feb 16, 2002; "rararararara" contains the meaning of everything, kept in simple rectangular structures

Dex posted:

ok gently caress kidneys, i have put filter paper down my throat to do the same thing but even better, and i'm sure my body will catch on and start using it any day now

# ? Feb 11, 2014 22:07

Darkman Fanpage: Jul 4, 2012

Robawesome posted:

[�]tulipfutures -4 points 43 minutes ago*

Coke and Pepsi should just work together right? Ask me if I'm surprised that bitcoiners don't understand that competition is GOOD for business. It forces businesses to compete for consumer dollars, otherwise it's a monopoly and they can charge what they want.

You should really take an "introduction to economics" class if you're going to be involved with bitcoin. It's really embarassing that you don't even understand the fundamentals, and funny that you got 3 upvotes for it.

[�]yonkfu 2 points 32 minutes ago

Your kidding yourself if you don't think coke and Pepsi work together

best buddies coke and pepsi

# ? Feb 11, 2014 22:08

TVarmy: Sep 11, 2011; like food and water, my posting has no intrinsic value

So are they saying collusion is a good thing or a bad thing?

# ? Feb 11, 2014 22:10

Robawesome: Jul 22, 2005

TVarmy posted:

So are they saying collusion is a good thing or a bad thing?

he thinks coke and pepsi are working together to make sure they both have a healthy amount of market share and revenue, literally

Darkman Fanpage posted:

best buddies coke and pepsi

# ? Feb 11, 2014 22:12

Friend Commuter: Nov 3, 2009; SO CLEVER I WANT TO FUCK MY OWN BRAIN.; Smellrose

anthonypants posted:

if those stats are always going to be unique then why not just make a transaction id out of the hash of those stats

and of course they aren't always going to be unique but that's the workaround they want everyone to use

i thought that was what the transaction id was, only you can combine them in any order before hashing so each set of unique stats can have loads of different txids

# ? Feb 11, 2014 22:13

Darkman Fanpage: Jul 4, 2012

Robawesome posted:

he thinks coke and pepsi are working together to make sure they both have a healthy amount of market share and revenue, literally

despite the fact that the two get into legal battles fairly regularly

# ? Feb 11, 2014 22:23

theflyingorc: Jun 28, 2008; ANY GOOD OPINIONS THIS POSTER CLAIMS TO HAVE ARE JUST PROOF THAT BULLYING WORKS; Young Orc

anthonypants posted:

if those stats are always going to be unique then why not just make a transaction id out of the hash of those stats

it is generated that way, apparently somebody did the hash in a stupid manner

# ? Feb 11, 2014 22:24

Adult Sword Owner: Jun 19, 2011; u deserve diploma for sublime comedy expertise

Darkman Fanpage posted:

despite the fact that the two get into legal battles fairly regularly

just a ploy by the rich banksters

# ? Feb 11, 2014 22:24

anthonypants: May 6, 2007; by Nyc_Tattoo; Dinosaur Gum

Friend Commuter posted:

i thought that was what the transaction id was, only you can combine them in any order before hashing so each set of unique stats can have loads of different txids

theflyingorc posted:

it is generated that way, apparently somebody did the hash in a stupid manner

# ? Feb 11, 2014 22:26

Heresiarch: Oct 6, 2005; Literature is not exhaustible, for the sufficient and simple reason that no single book is. A book is not an isolated being: it is a relationship, an axis of innumerable relationships.

Robawesome posted:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=457546.0

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1xkp1e/recent_large_volume_double_spending/

One of those, i think

thanks

interestingly enough, the first transaction is no longer flagged as potential double-spend and the second transaction isn't there at all anymore

is this how it's supposed to work with orphaned transactions or did blockchain.info do some fiddling?

# ? Feb 11, 2014 22:35

Robawesome: Jul 22, 2005

Using TXID to track your Bitcoin balance is as stupid as using bank note serial numbers to track the amount of money you have in your wallet. (self.Bitcoin)

submitted 1 minute ago by Rodyland

The analogy isn't perfect, but I think it's a reasonable lay-person explanation. Just like someone can swap out a $10 note from your wallet and make you "lose" $10, transaction malleability means you can transfer Bitcoin and "lose" that transaction.

The best way to know how much is in your wallet is to count the notes, and the best way to know how much Bitcoin you have is to count the unspent outputs.

# ? Feb 11, 2014 22:40

killhamster: Apr 15, 2004; SCAMMER
Hero Member

Heresiarch posted:

thanks

interestingly enough, the first transaction is no longer flagged as potential double-spend and the second transaction isn't there at all anymore

is this how it's supposed to work with orphaned transactions or did blockchain.info do some fiddling?

yeah that's how it's supposed to work

one reached six confirmations and found its way into the official blockchain and the other was orphaned and discarded

# ? Feb 11, 2014 22:48

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# ? May 13, 2024 15:16

kitten emergency: Jan 13, 2008; get meow this wack-ass crystal prison

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/11/usa-bitcoin-idUSL2N0LG1P520140211

capital requirements for bitcoin-related businesses

:fork:

# ? Feb 11, 2014 23:03

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > Bitcoin: We've reached the end of the postchain.

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