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sitchelin posted:Wish I had known that. My main dude is a Shadow-walker, and I've built him, Shima, and Sevilin to be halberd-wielding slaughtermachines. I'm still struggling on Beloch. gently caress him and his endless slow/stuns. I remember there was a person in the Kellem woods who can help you re-specialize your characters but I don't think it applies to base stats, I might give it a look. Retraining your characters gives you a complete blank slate: stats, skills and all. With the Blademaster and Shadowwalker this lets you do things like put some points in Strength so they can wear heavy armour early on and then retrain into pure Dex once you get to the retrainer, by which time you'll have gained enough Strength from automatic levelup bonuses that you don't need to put points in it manually any more. quote:Speaking of Avadon 2, how is the Tinkermage? I bought Avadon 2 during the steam sale but only dabbled with it since I'm close to finishing Avadon 1. The Tinkermage is the strongest class in Avadon 2 by a pretty wide margin -- it can solo most of the game on the highest difficulty setting. Max out lockpicking with your first two levels' skill points, then beeline for Freeze Turret in the top right of the skill tree, then either max out Turret Craft at the top of the middle column or keep putting points in the turret skills until you've unlocked the higher-level turrets (you'll eventually want to do both of those things, but the order is up to you). In big fights, summon a Freeze or Inferno turret plus a Temporal or Healing pylon. The Tinkermage works well in combination with classes like the Blademaster that have good buff skills, since buffs works on turrets just like they do on your characters, creating an amazing force multiplier effect. Make sure to keep your Tinkermage alive, since the turrets shut down if they die; you can go either melee or ranged, but in either case a tanky build with plenty of endurance is a good idea.
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Jan 4, 2014 09:10
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sitchelin posted:Ranged weapons have always kind of lagged behind melee/spells in Spiderweb games, save for Exile/Avernum 3, where they absolutely crush everything, especially once you find the Fury Crossbow artifact. Actually in Avernum 4-6, ranged weapons are actually a completely viable alternative for a main battle fighter: >You still benefit from Battle Disciplines and since you can pick your target, it's easy to cherry pick dangerous targets >The raw damage, if you focus on Dexterity and relevant other stats (Bows, Sharpshooter) keeps pace very well with physical fighters >Crazy dodging thanks to Dexterity >No movement required, so it's much easier to hit enemies in narrow spaces and you don't lose AP moving to the target (this also means +AP gear is fantastic since you're much more likely to get two shots off) >Does not trigger any enemy reaction skills - This is actually way, way more important than it sounds given that later Avernum games absolutely love giving bosses automated reactions like spiky skin, "anybody who hits me gets confused", etc The trick is, if you're expecting ranged weapons to be anything more than something to do when you can't attack/cast normally, you really want a serious archer-type build. You still want some Endurance/Hardiness/etc so you can serve as a meatshield (all that Dexterity ends up making you surprisingly effective as a tank), but the investment in hand-to-hand combat stats should be minimal. Dexterity, Bows, Sharpshooter, and more Dexterity. Always get the bow with the highest base multiplier you can and you'll end up as effective, if not more so, than your pure battle Slith pole weapon dude.
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Jan 4, 2014 13:48
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MagusofStars posted:Actually in Avernum 4-6, ranged weapons are actually a completely viable alternative for a main battle fighter: Bows are especially good in Avernum 4: a lot of enemies in that game either have a high chance to parry melee attacks or do bad things to you if you hit them, and dual-wielding doesn't exist in A4 so melee fighters don't even really get the ability to do extra damage to make up for their unreliability. Plus, one particular bow is the best weapon in the game by a huge, huge margin. Unfortunately it's buried in a cache right outside the final dungeon and you need a total of something like 25 Nature Lore in your party to get it, so its practical value is a bit limited, but boy howdy is it ever fun for the time you have it. I wouldn't bother with throwing weapons, by the way -- the damage premium over bows isn't very significant, they don't have the useful added effects like stunning that some high-end bows have, and managing ammo is a pain.
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Jan 5, 2014 01:16
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Thuryl posted:I wouldn't bother with throwing weapons, by the way -- the damage premium over bows isn't very significant, they don't have the useful added effects like stunning that some high-end bows have, and managing ammo is a pain. Due to the limited availability and cost of the good throwing weapons, you'd generally end up using a lot of the wimpy/inexpensive weapons (e.g., Javelins) and only pulling out your real damage (Razordisks) for bosses, because otherwise you'd run out of good weapons too fast. So while the raw damage might look better, it actually comes out negatively in the end. If there was a single "ranged weapon" stat, it'd definitely be useful to keep some good throwing weapons in your back pocket and pull them out when Things Get Real, but since the skills are separate, your much higher Bow skill makes it worthless. Pretty much the only use for Throwing weapons skill is the fact that it's a fairly inexpensive way to raise Battle Disciplines later in the game when you've already leveled your main skill pretty high.
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Jan 5, 2014 02:17
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Am I missing something, or are healing potions hard to come by at the beginning of A:EftP? Do the older geneforge games play well on modern machines? Avernum 1 was pretty hard to play in 2011.
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Jan 5, 2014 18:46
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Really? I played Avernum 1-6 on a Windows 7 box. Geneforge works fine on it too. Unless you mean the GUI, it's still rough.
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Jan 5, 2014 20:51
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keyvin posted:Am I missing something, or are healing potions hard to come by at the beginning of A:EftP? IIRC they're a bit sparse in the early but you'll be swimming in them before too long. I certainly never felt crunched for potions and I spend them liberally.
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Jan 5, 2014 20:56
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There is a known issue with the earliest Geneforge games being practically unplayable on some modern machines. I haven't seen any pattern to it wrt OS or hardware and plenty of people have no issue. It's fixed in the GOG versions but not on Steam. Caveat emptor.
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Jan 6, 2014 00:11
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Bought the Geneforge games off GOG, the first one seems to run alright. I am focusing on beating Avadon, and I noticed I am starting to chew through consumables faster than I am finding them. I just beat the second big boss of the game. I had to abuse my wands, crystals, potions, and scrolls to do it. I am only playing on normal difficulty. Do my tactics need adjustment? I ask because I beat the infinity engine games on normal difficulty, and I don't remember having a dependence on consumables (other than ammo) and that is what I often see spiderweb games compared against. Does the game ever "open up" or is it fairly linear all the way through.
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Jan 7, 2014 17:11
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Avadon 1 is pretty linear but Avadon 2 is more open but no where near as open as Avernum.
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Jan 7, 2014 17:12
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A thought just occurred to me... is there a way to get ahold of the full version of Nethergate, the original one, anywhere? Ressurection is on Steam, of course, and Exile 1-3 + Blades are free downloads from Jeff's site, but I don't recall seeing Nethergate there. The aforementioned Exile quartet run very well on an XP Virtual Machine and I'd like to see Nethergate Original... I'm just not going to pay $30 for it or whatever. I love Jeff's work, but he has enough of my dosh already. Edit: I had the brainchild to just send a letter to Spiderweb Support, and apparently the original Nethergate is free for anyone who asks. I just installed it on Windows 7 Enterprise x64 and it actually works fine, which surprised the hell out of me. Anyway, if you're interested, all you need to do is ask. JustJeff88 fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Jan 20, 2014 |
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Jan 20, 2014 17:39
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In Geneforge 2, is there any way to get into the Barzite-only rooms in Rising without joining them? I tried joining, but I was too nice to serviles for him, so I killed everyone. I have a save if I can't get in there any other way, but I like the way it went so much that I'd rather keep going. I really want to see what's back there though.
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Feb 6, 2014 20:32
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Remora posted:In Geneforge 2, is there any way to get into the Barzite-only rooms in Rising without joining them? I tried joining, but I was too nice to serviles for him, so I killed everyone. I have a save if I can't get in there any other way, but I like the way it went so much that I'd rather keep going. I really want to see what's back there though. I don't think you can get in without joining the Barzites, but I could just tell you what's in there. One room you get into immediately for joining them: it contains a Reaper Baton, a Shaped Blade, and canisters of Intelligence and Endurance. The remaining rooms are accessed by doing quests for the Barzites after joining them, and contain one canister each of Strength, Dexterity and Create Drayk and two canisters each of Spellcraft and Melee Weapons.
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Feb 7, 2014 00:54
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keyvin posted:Am I missing something, or are healing potions hard to come by at the beginning of A:EftP? IME even the older Geneforge games work fine on modern windowses. They don't work for poo poo in Wine, though. 
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Feb 7, 2014 01:00
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I just remembered three things from Exile 3 that have always plagued me. Using Magic Map there are inaccessible areas within Sulfras' Lair, Blackcrag Fortress, and Erika's tower. Each of them is fully fleshed out; Sulfras inner sanctum even has special encounter nodes and Blackcrag has tons of shops and other buildings, but they're impossible to explore unless I missed something. Is there some way to visit those areas or is it just a big cocktease?
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Feb 7, 2014 01:15
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sitchelin posted:I just remembered three things from Exile 3 that have always plagued me. Using Magic Map there are inaccessible areas within Sulfras' Lair, Blackcrag Fortress, and Erika's tower. Each of them is fully fleshed out; Sulfras inner sanctum even has special encounter nodes and Blackcrag has tons of shops and other buildings, but they're impossible to explore unless I missed something. Is there some way to visit those areas or is it just a big cocktease? Nah, they're not accessible, Jeff Vogel just likes loving with people sometimes. A lot of his games have inaccessible areas like that. Occasionally they're left over from early development but often they're just there to make you wonder what's in them. Thuryl fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Feb 7, 2014 |
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Feb 7, 2014 01:21
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Thuryl posted:I don't think you can get in without joining the Barzites, but I could just tell you what's in there. One room you get into immediately for joining them: it contains a Reaper Baton, a Shaped Blade, and canisters of Intelligence and Endurance. The remaining rooms are accessed by doing quests for the Barzites after joining them, and contain one canister each of Strength, Dexterity and Create Drayk and two canisters each of Spellcraft and Melee Weapons. Yeah, I figured out what was out there, I just wanted a way to get in without joining the Barzites... could really have used that Int bonus, but oh well, I have 21 already.
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Feb 7, 2014 03:02
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Thuryl posted:I don't think you can get in without joining the Barzites, but I could just tell you what's in there. One room you get into immediately for joining them: it contains a Reaper Baton, a Shaped Blade, and canisters of Intelligence and Endurance. The remaining rooms are accessed by doing quests for the Barzites after joining them, and contain one canister each of Strength, Dexterity and Create Drayk and two canisters each of Spellcraft and Melee Weapons. Note that the rewards Thuryl listed (since they're exclusive to Barzites) make the Barzites the unquestionable best choice if you're looking purely from a power-gaming perspective, since they're the only major rewards which are exclusive to one faction. Also, IIRC, the stat canisters are actually unique, in that they raise your stats by +2 rather than +1 like every other canister. Of course, by the time you get to doing end-game quests for the factions, you should already be powerful enough to handle pretty much anything in the game.
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Feb 7, 2014 13:23
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Avadon 2 is on sale for $2.50 this week on steam.
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Feb 20, 2014 18:43
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How do you beat The sorceress shade in avadon 1. I'm playing on normal and my guys are level 14. I don't know if this is one of those encounters where you are supposed to come back later or what.
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Feb 21, 2014 20:29
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Yes, come back later. Like 10 levels later.
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Feb 21, 2014 20:56
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keyvin posted:Avadon 2 is on sale for $2.50 this week on steam. I didn't even realize Avadon 2 was out! where are my Geneforge remakes you bastard
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Feb 21, 2014 21:00
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ToxicFrog posted:I didn't even realize Avadon 2 was out! I think that Jeff said that their next project after Avadon 2 was to remake (again) Avernum 2, but I'm not sure.
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Feb 21, 2014 21:24
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That's correct, he wants to remake Avernum 2 and 3. Not 4, 5 or 6 since they are on the newer Geneforge engine.
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Feb 21, 2014 21:28
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I can't loving wait for Avernum 2, it was the best of the trilogy.  A remake of the early Geneforge games that's less of a pain to get working on my modern computer would also be nice.
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Feb 21, 2014 21:31
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keyvin posted:How do you beat The one in Beraza Woods? She's tough, and you should probably pile on more levels. In my party I used Sevilin (specced for bows/shouts/buffs) and Jenell (specced for summons). My main guy was a melee-specced Shadowwalker. I'd summon a Drake and park it outside to help burn down the adds when one of your members is teleported away, the sooner you can bring back your members the better. I'd just tunnel-vision the Sorceress when I caught a break.
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Feb 21, 2014 21:42
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ToxicFrog posted:I didn't even realize Avadon 2 was out! I've questioned that decision too, GF2 isn't that bad, but man, GF1 is insanely primitive. Borderline unplayable even simply because the options are so limited that it ends up being very unforgiving.
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Feb 22, 2014 01:02
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sitchelin posted:I just remembered three things from Exile 3 that have always plagued me. Using Magic Map there are inaccessible areas within Sulfras' Lair, Blackcrag Fortress, and Erika's tower. Each of them is fully fleshed out; Sulfras inner sanctum even has special encounter nodes and Blackcrag has tons of shops and other buildings, but they're impossible to explore unless I missed something. Is there some way to visit those areas or is it just a big cocktease? They are there as red herrings to convince you that they are responsible for the plagues. Actually does anyone know what happens in the endgame if you have foolishly killed Eirika previously? Fangz fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Feb 22, 2014 |
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Feb 22, 2014 01:23
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Fangz posted:Actually does anyone know what happens in the endgame if you have foolishly killed Eirika previously? Rentar teleports you away, then you fight your way back, then she does it again, and so on. But you get messages about how she's increasingly fatigued, so eventually it doesn't work and you can proceed as normal.
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Feb 22, 2014 03:59
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Zereth posted:I can't loving wait for Avernum 2, it was the best of the trilogy. I am all sorts of ready to go down waterfalls and find that stupid crank or w/e for the waterway gate again!
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Feb 22, 2014 07:54
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Is it a thing in spiderweb games that you have to double back frequently? I mean, you can clear to the boss OK but even after five to ten attempts it becomes apparent that your levels are to low or you suck. I feel a sense of shame if I have to play an rpg on lower than the standard difficulty.
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Feb 22, 2014 14:32
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keyvin posted:Is it a thing in spiderweb games that you have to double back frequently? I mean, you can clear to the boss OK but even after five to ten attempts it becomes apparent that your levels are to low or you suck. I feel a sense of shame if I have to play an rpg on lower than the standard difficulty. Not in most of them, but Avernum: Escape from the Pit in particular had some issues with bosses that were out of whack with the difficulty of the rest of the area you found them in, especially early in the game. Some people have made the same complaint about Avadon, although I personally didn't have major problems with it in that regard.
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Feb 22, 2014 15:50
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JustJeff88 posted:I think that Jeff said that their next project after Avadon 2 was to remake (again) Avernum 2, but I'm not sure. I know, and that makes me really sad, because (a) I don't really care about Avernum, but I really like Geneforge, and (b) they've already gotten a remake! There's also the fact that GF1/2 are games that would be ideal to play on my laptop, except they don't work in Wine.
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Feb 22, 2014 15:55
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Next remake should be the exact spells, skills and stats from Exile slapped into a modern engine. Even the useless ones. The remakes are all great, but I really want to replay the original trilogy and drop some Quickfires and Death Arrows on dudes and goddamn that tiny window makes them unplayable.
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Feb 22, 2014 16:09
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keyvin posted:Is it a thing in spiderweb games that you have to double back frequently? I mean, you can clear to the boss OK but even after five to ten attempts it becomes apparent that your levels are to low or you suck. I feel a sense of shame if I have to play an rpg on lower than the standard difficulty. It's something that the creator of spiderweb likes doing every now and then since it gives you a bit of a feeling of achievement when you come back and get some revenge. Unfortunately, some of the games go wildly over the top with it. Thuryl mentioned Avernum: Escape from the Pit, but Avernum 6 is probably the most famous/infamous for it - In the original version, the doubling-back requirements were massively overdone that they actually patched the game for the sole reason to cut down on the number of times this happened.
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Feb 22, 2014 16:24
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Big Mad Drongo posted:Next remake should be the exact spells, skills and stats from Exile slapped into a modern engine. Even the useless ones. I'd go for this. I have never, ever liked that he went from 6-man party in Exile to 4-man in the remakes. I understand his reasoning for it, but I don't agree with his logic and I did not enjoy the consequences to gameplay.
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Feb 22, 2014 18:50
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JustJeff88 posted:I'd go for this. I have never, ever liked that he went from 6-man party in Exile to 4-man in the remakes. I understand his reasoning for it, but I don't agree with his logic and I did not enjoy the consequences to gameplay.
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Feb 22, 2014 21:03
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Yeah, I feel the same way. Spiderweb was already producing Avernum and Geneforge by the time I was introduced to them, so I could never bring myself to get very far in the dated Exile games, but having six party members was by far my favorite part of them. Having tank/healer/mage archetype characters has always been pretty mandatory in my experience with Spiderweb games, but having six characters gave you a couple of extra guys to do whatever with, and it was a lot more fun.
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Feb 23, 2014 02:17
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Jeff actually released all the old Exile games here for free. Standard compatibility issues for old, unsupported games apply, though. I would love it if he'd do some porting so they'd work on modern operating systems without VMing. Of course, he already did essentially that and much more when going from Exile to Avernum, but I still have a soft spot for plain Exile like many people here.
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Feb 23, 2014 02:48
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JustJeff88 posted:I'd go for this. I have never, ever liked that he went from 6-man party in Exile to 4-man in the remakes. I understand his reasoning for it, but I don't agree with his logic and I did not enjoy the consequences to gameplay. My favorite thing to do in Exile 3 was to have the first 3 guys specialize in melee and the last 3 specialize in archery. All 6 of them also had priest spells, and I would roam the countryside slaughtering every magic-using heretic I could find, spreading the word of the Anama temple along the way. Playing without mage spells is a pain in the rear end, but still somehow fun once you've got 6 people with divine host and suddenly there's an army of undead at your beck and call.
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Feb 23, 2014 10:01
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