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HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:Lukashenko's been caught a couple of times making offhand comments that this little monster will succeed him as president. He quickly backtracks though and insists that's not what he actually said. He once bit a plane stewardess hand when she did not let him to close plane's door. After that he shouted "When I will become a minister I will execute you!". If this story is remotely true, I hope he gets rid of that poo poo before become next ruler of Belarus. Edit: English is hard. When I "Quote." is full stop in quote sufficient, or I have put closing punctuation out of quote ? cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Mar 23, 2014 |
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Mar 23, 2014 01:16
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To be fair, if I were young son of despotic ruler I'd act the same. I'd probably get special drivers license for my chrome-plated Audi on my 13th birthday and have couple kids by 18 with different local pop stars.
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Mar 23, 2014 01:18
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kalstrams posted:He once bit a plane stewardess hand when she did not let him to close plane's door. After that he shouted "When I will become a minister I will execute you!" If this story is remotely true, I hope he gets rid of that poo poo before become next ruler of Belarus. I know there's decent odds it wasn't true and all, since even for complete shitbirds like this people love making up stories, but man I refuse to believe it's anything but true.
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Mar 23, 2014 01:20
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Imagine a world without Putin, where Lukashenko unites Belarus and Russia under his rule, and then leaves the whole thing to his son.
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Mar 23, 2014 01:28
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Imagine a world without Putin, where Lukashenko unites Belarus and Russia under his rule, and then leaves the whole thing to his son. Yea Hunger Games was a pretty sweet book.
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Mar 23, 2014 01:31
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Imagine a world without Putin, where Lukashenko unites Belarus and Russia under his rule, and then leaves the whole thing to his son.  The first thing I would do is escape Latvia.
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Mar 23, 2014 01:31
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Imagine a world without Putin, where Lukashenko unites Belarus and Russia under his rule, and then leaves the whole thing to his son. I hope it happens, I don't want to wait for another Game of Thrones new season
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Mar 23, 2014 01:31
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A while ago there was a story about Lukashenko wanting to unite Belarus and Russia on condition that he and Putin would take places as President of new country  . If they'd combine Turkmenistan too they could have a three way split with Turkmenbasha.
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Mar 23, 2014 01:32
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Lukashenko is straight out of medieval Europe in more ways than oneWikipedia posted:Lukashenko married Galina Zhelnerovich, his high school sweetheart, in 1975. Later that year his oldest son, Viktor, was born. Their second son, Dzmitry, was born in 1980. Galina lives separately in the family's house in the village near Shklov. Though they are still legally married, Galina Lukashenko has been estranged from her husband since shortly after he became president. His son Viktor is a 'national security aide;' Lukashenko has dismissed him in public as "a useless weakling who will soon become even weaker." kalstrams posted:He once bit a plane stewardess hand when she did not let him to close plane's door. After that he shouted "When I will become a minister I will execute you!". If this story is remotely true, I hope he gets rid of that poo poo before become next ruler of Belarus. I'd believe it. And put the full stop inside the quote. Some people may argue with that but I think it looks stupid as hell outside of the quote. It may be a US vs UK style thing.
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Mar 23, 2014 01:34
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That was originally the purpose of the Union State. Yeltsin was old, sick and drunk. Lukashenko saw his chance to unite the Soviet Union and take over and talked him into the Union State in 1997. In 1999 Yeltsin decided to retire and named the Prime Minister as his successor. The Union State never went the way Lukashenko planned after that.
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Mar 23, 2014 01:37
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HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:That was originally the purpose of the Union State. Yeltsin was old, sick and drunk. Lukashenko saw his chance to unite the Soviet Union and take over and talked him into the Union State in 1997. In 1999 Yeltsin decided to retire and named the Prime Minister as his successor. The Union State never went the way Lukashenko planned after that. So what you are saying is Putin ironically saved us all from ultimate dystopia. e: oh man Lukashenko is a real piece of work Wikipedia posted:In 1995, Lukashenko was accused of making a remark which praised Adolf Hitler: "the history of Germany is a copy of the history of Belarus. Germany was raised from ruins thanks to firm authority and not everything connected with that well-known figure Hitler was bad. German order evolved over the centuries and attained its peak under Hitler." Gen. Ripper fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Mar 23, 2014 |
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Mar 23, 2014 01:41
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Does anyone know why there was fighting at Belbek? Doesn't make sense if the Ukrainians were leaving anyway.Gen. Ripper posted:e: oh man Lukashenko is a real piece of work Okay, real talk. I don't understand how saying this is bad. Hitler sucked for many reasons but Germany did improve under him. Tons of people around the world think the West is evil like Hitler but we all know how great it is to live here.
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Mar 23, 2014 01:55
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Aspergeoisie posted:
Hitler mismanaged the war so badly that an alien clone bred to be a saboteur probably couldn't do a worse job.
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Mar 23, 2014 02:10
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computer parts posted:Hitler mismanaged the war so badly that an alien clone bred to be a saboteur probably couldn't do a worse job. Its fun when you have some of the best generals and a well equipped army, and you screw it up so badly.
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Mar 23, 2014 02:14
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Aspergeoisie posted:Okay, real talk. I don't understand how saying this is bad. Hitler sucked for many reasons but Germany did improve under him. Tons of people around the world think the West is evil like Hitler but we all know how great it is to live here. Saying that Germany attained its peak under Hitler is pretty revealing as to his lovely priorities. The peak of a nation's culture and society should be a healthy, representative, tolerant and legitimate government, not a tyrant who gets the trains to run on time and rebuilds the military. More on topic though, characters like Lukashenko make me worry what will happen to Russia when Putin declines. He seems to have rebuilt the state around him, crippling the opposition and even breaking many oligarchs who effectively operate as Russia's feudal aristocracy. As bad as Putin is, Russia has the very real potential to fall apart entirely or fall under the thumb of a proper tyrant - who's to say the next man to seize control of Russia wouldn't happily order the army to flatten Kyiv if it defies him? There aren't really any checks on that situation. Edit - sorry Aspergeoisie, I didn't mean your priorities, I just mean Lukashenko saying that about Hitler is revealing of him. Dolash fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Mar 23, 2014 |
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Mar 23, 2014 02:22
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Aspergeoisie posted:Okay, real talk. I don't understand how saying this is bad. Hitler sucked for many reasons but Germany did improve under him. Tons of people around the world think the West is evil like Hitler but we all know how great it is to live here.  "Guys I know Hitler was a horrifically racist piece of poo poo who was responsible for the murder of over 10 million people but he made the trains run on time so I think it balances out."
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Mar 23, 2014 02:26
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Dolash posted:Saying that Germany attained its peak under Hitler is pretty revealing as to his lovely priorities. The peak of a nation's culture and society should be a healthy, representative, tolerant and legitimate government, not a tyrant who gets the trains to run on time and rebuilds the military. Of course, the issue was that Germans looked on Hitler favorably because the relatively tolerant and democratic government has utterly collapsed on itself, which isn't a knock against tolerant and democratic governments but the really terrible results of when they fail. I think things in Russia have the potential to get a lot worse than they are, and Russia certainly could be more aggressive than it is. Crimea was obviously a move that violated international law, but it could have turned out more bloody and have not been limited to Crimea. It isn't to say anyone is lucky to have Putin around but there is plenty of worrying trends in Russian society at the moment that can easily be capitalized on. It very well lead to a situation (like in 1917) when only the most driven (and likely ruthless) political actors (probably not left political actors) came to the front. I don't think it would be a guy like Lukashenko who prefers his version of the status quo but a guy with a much broader "dream." As much as we would like to think Putin or even Lukashenko is as bad as they get, I do think there are guys with far more ambition to wreck serious damage. To be honest, I have a real hard time seeing a stable liberal democratic regime coming out of Putin's fall especially if it coincidences with another significant economic downturn.
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Mar 23, 2014 02:33
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He also managed to get his people into a war that they could never win, so on the balance he was a pretty lovely ruler. No, honestly, even if you don't go in for the whole rights and democracy thing, Hitler could have had so much more if he was a pragmatic ruler. He had absorbed Austria, the Czech lands, and reoccupied the Rheinland before the British decided Poland was a bridge too far. Imagine if he had stopped and focused on solidifying what he had! Germany would have been a behemoth, and in a few years every democratic capitalist nation would have been sidling up to Germany as the strong bulwark against Soviet aggression in Europe. He could have killed every Jew in Germany and no one would have dared attack him so long as he didn't throw the first punch. Not saying that I support such action, but I'm just saying that there's no coherent framework wherein Hitler is a net win, unless your highest good is taking as much of the world down with you as possible.
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Mar 23, 2014 02:37
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Ardennes posted:
I think the best we may hope for would be Medvedev acting as a slightly gentler version of Putin. As bad as Ukrainian politics are, Russia's are absolutely terrifying, since anyone with any presence seems either a yes-man or just nuts.
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Mar 23, 2014 02:39
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OddObserver posted:I think the best we may hope for would be Medvedev acting as a slightly gentler version of Putin. Putin and Medvedev are tied at the hip, if Putin's regime is seriously going to collapse, Medvedev is going to be on the same flight. I think it would be just a giant vacuum as the (relative) liberals try to fight for control of Moscow versus a wide array of the far-right. Ultimately, it might just boil down to whomever has a good speaker and more thugs.
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Mar 23, 2014 02:44
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OddObserver posted:I think the best we may hope for would be Medvedev acting as a slightly gentler version of Putin. If Putin dies, Medvedev could actually become a decent president without his influence. By Russian standards, anyway. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6Ksc7R6jhc Look, he's got all the right moves.
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Mar 23, 2014 02:47
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Ouch, one does not Need to murder millions of People to have Trains run on time in Germany. As a strategist, Hitler was basically so bad he sometimes was good due to doing completely unpredictable (by his more "sane" opponents) stuff, other than that, well, he was outright horrible in Terms of actual leadership, and the Nazis may have been the least efficient german leaders since the Teuton/Cimbrian Invasion of Rome. Lukashenko btw. is a pretty sane, effective and Long-term thinking Autocrat, who actually isnt particularly cruel or anything like that. There is an Opposition that is harrassed, but not brutally repressed. Slapping the Nations General attorney as a civil rights activist gets you about 2 weeks of probation and a small fine. Lukashenko is also surrounding himself with a circle of fairly Young advisors, and These have some (non violent) turnover. So basically, the System can be adjusted by people not yet in politics from within, which removes a lot of pressure towards democracy that would otherwise be there. And well, Belarus is the only Soviet republic (other than the Latvia and Estonia, who got some pretty massive EU subsidies) that didnt suffer from Major deprivation during the Soviet collapse (they basically managed to maintain living standarts), and a large Portion of Belarus more elderly citizens would vote for Lukashenko in free elections because they Attribute not having gone through a Yelzin like period to him. That Belarus economy didnt collapse is btw. a bigger reasons for their not being Oligarchs there then Lukashenko breaking Oligarchs. If there is no great free for all looting of state assets (see Russia or Ukraine), there are far less opportunities to become an Oligarch. Some People from Minsk I know describe Belarus as a mix of East Germany, Titos Yugoslavia and the 20th century Habsburg empire. What is really doubtfull is the succession. Lukashenko is cycling advisors, so None of them is a clear succession candidate. There arent any oligarchs, and well, doubts about his families abilities are pretty widespread.
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Mar 23, 2014 02:50
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Dispatch 16 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBLs_AsBtjg Also the 2 filmmakers behind the Babylon'13 youtube channel were finally released from custody after disappearing in Crimea for 5 days. They just uploaded this neat video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZcTHu1BetA Tainen fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Mar 23, 2014 |
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Mar 23, 2014 02:51
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Ardennes posted:Putin and Medvedev are tied at the hip, if Putin's regime is seriously going to collapse, Medvedev is going to be on the same flight. I think it would be just a giant vacuum as the (relative) liberals try to fight for control of Moscow versus a wide array of the far-right. Ultimately, it might just boil down to whomever has a good speaker and more thugs. Does Medvedev have enough influence to glide into Putin's spot if Putin passes away while his regime is intact? Medvedev's 13 years younger, if Putin's powerbase transfers to him when he dies he could have a few years of maintaining stability in him.
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Mar 23, 2014 03:05
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Mightypeon posted:Ouch, one does not Need to murder millions of People to have Trains run on time in Germany. Eh, lets be fair. Supporting the Manstein Plan in 1940 and his Stand Fast orders in 1942 were correct decisions; and a number of potential catastrophes averted by his flinging General Model at Soviet breakthroughs and Guderians suggestions for deep penetrations of the USSR would have likely been disastrous much sooner. I'ld pin Hitler's more disastrous decision making phase to Stalingrad onwards and well, probably spared Germany the atomic bomb 
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Mar 23, 2014 03:16
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Raenir Salazar posted:I'ld pin Hitler's more disastrous decision making phase to Stalingrad onwards and well, probably spared Germany the atomic bomb I think you've hit the nail on the head: Had Hitler given Von Paulus more leeway in what he did with the 6th Army, the disaster at Stalingrad could have been lessened or even avoided. Hitler screwed his generals by putting them in corners they knew were traps and telling them to stay there no matter what.
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Mar 23, 2014 03:33
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Raenir Salazar posted:Eh, lets be fair. Supporting the Manstein Plan in 1940 and his Stand Fast orders in 1942 were correct decisions; and a number of potential catastrophes averted by his flinging General Model at Soviet breakthroughs and Guderians suggestions for deep penetrations of the USSR would have likely been disastrous much sooner. Hitler, like any proper fascist, was a deluded romantic. Any good decisions he made were more due to blind luck and an arrogant dislike for the conservative Wehrmacht top brass than anything else. So this worked great when he favored the bright young von Manstein in 1940, and when he sided with the brash upstart Guderian to modernize German armored warfare some years before that. But as the war ran on and the General Staff learned from their experiences or simply understood the situation on the ground better than he did, he continued to distrust them just the same, with disastrous results. Also I was under the impression that his Stand Fast orders resulted in needless casualties by forcing German troops to hold exposed positions, as opposed to trading ground for men, was this not the case? Remember, this was a man who deliberately shifted military resources westward late in the war (e.g. Battle of the Bulge) because he figured if Germany was going down, it should be a proper Gotterdammerung at the hands of their most bitter enemy to the east. More on topic: are there any Ukrainian-held bases left in the Crimea, or have green men/wannabe Cossacks cleaned everything out? And how serious are the signs of possible Russian aggression in east Ukraine? US National Security Advisor Susan Rice certainly sounded alarmed about that today.
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Mar 23, 2014 03:47
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rockopete posted:More on topic: are there any Ukrainian-held bases left in the Crimea, or have green men/wannabe Cossacks cleaned everything out? And how serious are the signs of possible Russian aggression in east Ukraine? US National Security Advisor Susan Rice certainly sounded alarmed about that today. Obama made an announcement this morning raising alarm at Russia's massing to the east of Ukraine, and said we have intel that says they are planning something that could happen in the next few days. I linked it earlier in the thread.
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Mar 23, 2014 03:49
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CommieGIR posted:Obama made an announcement this morning raising alarm at Russia's massing to the east of Ukraine, and said we have intel that says they are planning something that could happen in the next few days. Ah sorry, I missed it somehow. Thanks for the link.
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Mar 23, 2014 03:51
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Dolash posted:Does Medvedev have enough influence to glide into Putin's spot if Putin passes away while his regime is intact? Medvedev's 13 years younger, if Putin's powerbase transfers to him when he dies he could have a few years of maintaining stability in him. The answer is maybe, depends on public opinion at the time. Personally, I don't think Putin is going to die of old age...in Russia. He is still only 61 and already there are plenty of cracks forming, and like I said before the Crimea invasion was more out of desperation than megalomania. He didn't want a "Ploshchad" happening in Moscow, and he knows the economy isn't doing so great. I think his short term outlook is pretty strong, but his mid-term if not long term outlook isn't great especially after people forget Crimea even happened. I do think if oil prices take a big hit, his regime is going to come under a lot of pressure. Russia still had a large amount of currency reserves but they can be drained fast. Russia still has a positive balance of trade but obviously the economy isn't efficient in allocating resources and if that surplus drops, then the state budget starts coming into a crunch. Remember, the ruble has recently already devalued by a fair amount.
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Mar 23, 2014 03:52
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rockopete posted:Remember, this was a man who deliberately shifted military resources westward late in the war (e.g. Battle of the Bulge) because he figured if Germany was going down, it should be a proper Gotterdammerung at the hands of their most bitter enemy to the east. Actually, he did it to try and get the Allies to truce/peace out long enough that he could rebuild the eastern front and push back against the Russians in the spring. Hitler wasn't a good leader but he wasn't completely bonkers.
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Mar 23, 2014 03:53
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Forums Terrorist posted:Actually, he did it to try and get the Allies to truce/peace out long enough that he could rebuild the eastern front and push back against the Russians in the spring. Hitler wasn't a good leader but he wasn't completely bonkers. And at the same time, he hoped by dashing to the French coast that the Allies would realize that he wasn't the enemy and they needed to team up against the Soviets. The plan was both bonkers and well thought out...to a degree. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Mar 23, 2014 |
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Mar 23, 2014 03:56
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rockopete posted:I'd believe it. And put the full stop inside the quote. Some people may argue with that but I think it looks stupid as hell outside of the quote. It may be a US vs UK style thing. FYI full stop within the quotes is proper usage in the US too. The exceptions are for when the sentence is interrupted by attribution or the quote itself is incomplete- in which case other punctuation is used instead. Sorry, here's my source. Generally a good english usage site on top of providing a simple version of a common citation format. vvvvv Right. Here's a source detailing the differences. This is one case where I feel US usage is clearer. The Doubling of punctuation mentioned further downt hat page is probably a win for the UK, though- it conveys more information, even if it hurts to look at. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Mar 23, 2014 |
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Mar 23, 2014 04:46
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Discendo Vox posted:FYI full stop within the quotes is proper usage in the US too. The exceptions are for when the sentence is interrupted by attribution or the quote itself is incomplete- in which case other punctuation is used instead. It is a American versus British English thing, I always put the period inside the quote but it really depends on the what style you are using/where you are from.
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Mar 23, 2014 04:57
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rockopete posted:Also I was under the impression that his Stand Fast orders resulted in needless casualties by forcing German troops to hold exposed positions, as opposed to trading ground for men, was this not the case? Germany's logistic situation was a complete disaster and trying any large pullback would likely have escalated into a catastrophe and rout. They didn't really have the ability to stage a fighting retreat or support the mass movements necessary to trade land for time. Trying to do either would have led to the German army dying running and out of supply instead of fighting. Attempting to stand fast and bleed the Soviets out was probably their best option, which given their impossible situation still wasn't enough. SickZip fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Mar 23, 2014 |
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Mar 23, 2014 05:12
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Im kinda drunk posting from a party right now, but holy poo poo has Russia hosed up. Like, Putin lost on the international stage, and Russia's deffo not getting any growth in the near future, wtf is Putin thinking? Is state propaganda really that powerful?
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Mar 23, 2014 05:12
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awesome-express posted:Im kinda drunk posting from a party right now, but holy poo poo has Russia hosed up. Like, Putin lost on the international stage, and Russia's deffo not getting any growth in the near future, wtf is Putin thinking? Is state propaganda really that powerful? Yes, probably- it's let him get away with a lot in the past. When you haven't studied or lived under effective systems of mass media control, it's hard to comprehend the sheer force of their effect. This may have been a step too far for Putin, however; time will tell, and the responses by China, the EU, NATO and the US will probably make a big difference.
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Mar 23, 2014 05:16
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awesome-express posted:Im kinda drunk posting from a party right now, but holy poo poo has Russia hosed up. Like, Putin lost on the international stage, and Russia's deffo not getting any growth in the near future, wtf is Putin thinking? Is state propaganda really that powerful? If anything the state propaganda has a eerie facility to all the media control and outright lying that went into justifying the invasion of Iraq. In Russia case it's painting Ukraine as a nazi controlled country or claiming that the country is planning to do ethnic cleansing against Russians. Which overlooks things such as how the Crimean government has ordered the tartars to give up the land but with the promise that they will get equivalent property in others part of the new country. http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/crimean-tatars-asked-to-vacate-land-regional-official-says/496451.html
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Mar 23, 2014 05:18
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CommieGIR posted:Obama made an announcement this morning raising alarm at Russia's massing to the east of Ukraine, and said we have intel that says they are planning something that could happen in the next few days. Yeah, it struck me today that if they did want to make a play for east Ukraine, there is literally never going to be a better time then now. The more time that passes, the more time Ukraine has to prepare and receive aid and guarantees from the West. I'm thinking they're going for it. 
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Mar 23, 2014 05:24
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Any thoughts on Obama/White House talking openly about the intel linked before as a preemptive move rather than carrying any actual merit? I'm always curious about intel being talked about in the public as a deterrent.
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