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Install Windows posted:Congrats on being wrong I guess. Yes, I am wrong: When you take into account the fact that factory farms raise 99.9 percent of chickens for meat, 97 percent of laying hens, 99 percent of turkeys, 95 percent of pigs, and 78 percent of cattle currently sold in the United States, it's shocking how much time we waste debating each other, rather than trying to actually change the system. source
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Apr 4, 2014 01:59
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zoux posted:I think eating meat is fine but at the same time I also think we should hold ourselves to higher standards than bears. Nature is red in tooth and claw so I don't think we should look to it for moral guidance. Don't we have a moral obligation to provide large quantities of tofu and seitan to bear populations so they can get their daily protein intake without having to slaughter helpless herbivores? We have the capability to hold the bears to a higher standard than they hold themselves! Aren't we killing their prey ourselves, through inaction?  (note: I picked instead of  because I realize this is a really dumb argument for me to use and I don't really mean it earnestly)(seriously I don't really care whether other people eat meat or what their reasoning is; more power to you  )
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Apr 4, 2014 02:00
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Rhesus Pieces posted:First Continental Congress, Articles of Association, October 20, 1774, which among other things began a boycott of British tea in the colonies in response to the Intolerable Acts: Well they also spoke ill of horse racing which is a major industry in Kentucky so I imagine he just ignored all that.
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Apr 4, 2014 02:07
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Shbobdb posted:Yes, I am wrong: Factory farms do not equal torture, check and mate.
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Apr 4, 2014 02:08
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Install Windows posted:Factory farms do not equal torture, check and mate. So, it has come to this. We have left reality behind and have entered a new space entirely.  We can dance if we want to, we can leave the facts behind
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Apr 4, 2014 02:11
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Install Windows posted:Factory farms do not equal torture, check and mate. That's pretty disputed.
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Apr 4, 2014 02:12
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Can we maybe get a cockfighting and food torture thread instead of filling this thread with it?
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Apr 4, 2014 02:13
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Badger of Basra posted:Also, the Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles (stacked with Perry appointees like every other board in this state, I'm assuming) refused to issue a posthumous pardon to said innocent man murdered by the State of Texas. Well that would require them admitting they executed an innocent man, so it's not terribly surprising. That,s the same board Perry dissolved and reformed after it looked like the members were prepared to exonerate or at least commute Willingham's sentence. Install Windows posted:Yeah but you should also be able to have DAs from other counties participate, especially in a state like Texas where cities are already free to sprawl across multiple counties without having area annexed to the original county. I have no idea when that law went on the books, but if it was any time before the last fifty years it means that the sheer size of the state would hamper investigations conducted from hundreds of miles away.
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Apr 4, 2014 02:15
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Pope Guilty posted:Can we maybe get a cockfighting and food torture thread instead of filling this thread with it? I tried that already. The mass line said "no". Since creativity comes from the people and is for the people, it behooves us to adhere to the mass line. Long Live Chairman Mao.
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Apr 4, 2014 02:17
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zoux posted:Well that would require them admitting they executed an innocent man, so it's not terribly surprising. That,s the same board Perry dissolved and reformed after it looked like the members were prepared to exonerate or at least commute Willingham's sentence. Yeah but consequently, a lot of official legislator misconduct would also happen in and around their home districts, so it'd be hard for the Travis County DA to effectively investigate given the distance. That some do it does not mean all do it. His stupid argument relies on all of them always doing it (not to mention that factory farm is a vaguely defined slur term at best).
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Apr 4, 2014 02:19
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Install Windows posted:That some do it does not mean all do it. His stupid argument relies on all of them always doing it (not to mention that factory farm is a vaguely defined slur term at best). *citation needed*
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Apr 4, 2014 02:23
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Install Windows posted:Yeah but consequently, a lot of official legislator misconduct would also happen in and around their home districts, so it'd be hard for the Travis County DA to effectively investigate given the distance. I believe that those incidents would still be prosecuted where they took place. It's only when acting in Austin, again I believe, when Travis Co has jurisdiction. So it's mostly executive branch and executive appointed officials that Ronnie Earle went after while he was DA. Lehmann hasn't been beating the war drums nearly as bad as Earle, this is mostly Perry's grudge against the office and the last real bastion of Democratic power in the state.
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Apr 4, 2014 02:25
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zoux posted:I believe that those incidents would still be prosecuted where they took place. It's only when acting in Austin, again I believe, when Travis Co has jurisdiction. So it's mostly executive branch and executive appointed officials that Ronnie Earle went after while he was DA. Lehmann hasn't been beating the war drums nearly as bad as Earle, this is mostly Perry's grudge against the office and the last real bastion of Democratic power in the state. I know Texas elects judges, are DAs also elected? It seems from what you're saying that they're gubernatorial appointments but I don't know if I've ever seen a judge/DA system split before.
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Apr 4, 2014 02:26
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Texas elects its DAs.
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Apr 4, 2014 02:29
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The Warszawa posted:I know Texas elects judges, are DAs also elected? It seems from what you're saying that they're gubernatorial appointments but I don't know if I've ever seen a judge/DA system split before. Yep, county elected. The confusion here is that if Lehmberg left office, Perry is permitted to appoint an interim DA to the office until the next election cycle in November.
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Apr 4, 2014 02:30
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The Warszawa posted:I know Texas elects judges, are DAs also elected? It seems from what you're saying that they're gubernatorial appointments but I don't know if I've ever seen a judge/DA system split before. They are elected but my understanding is that if one steps down Perry would get to appoint someone to hold the office until the next election. This would be a bad thing because she was just one year into her term so Perry and Co would have free reign for about three years. edit: beaten, and likely wrong on the length of the interim appointment because zoux knows his poo poo.
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Apr 4, 2014 02:32
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Shifty Pony posted:They are elected but my understanding is that if one steps down Perry would get to appoint someone to hold the office until the next election. This would be a bad thing because she was just one year into her term so Perry and Co would have free reign for about three years. Her term runs through 2016 but in the event of removal, the election moves up to the next general. It was a bit bigger deal when this all happened last spring and they thought they could force her out then.
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Apr 4, 2014 02:35
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Shbobdb posted:*citation needed* You're the one who needs to provide citations buddy! zoux posted:I believe that those incidents would still be prosecuted where they took place. It's only when acting in Austin, again I believe, when Travis Co has jurisdiction. So it's mostly executive branch and executive appointed officials that Ronnie Earle went after while he was DA. Lehmann hasn't been beating the war drums nearly as bad as Earle, this is mostly Perry's grudge against the office and the last real bastion of Democratic power in the state. Ok that makes a lot more sense. I thought you were saying that all state legislative misconduct has to be investigated by Travis County.
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Apr 4, 2014 02:40
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Install Windows posted:You're the one who needs to provide citations buddy! The "naw-ah!" defense is not recognized in most countries. I cited a HuffPo article and then Ginsburg cited Rolling Stone. Both pop sources, I'll admit. But that is more than your "nothing aside from bold assertion".
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Apr 4, 2014 02:43
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Install Windows posted:You're the one who needs to provide citations buddy! I looked it up, their charter (1982) gives them purview over cases that "must be investigated in Travis County" so there's probably a list of statutes that set those criteria, and I have no idea what it is. I do know that due to the cut in state funding, they are currently only investigating poo poo locally. I remember that either the county or the city was going to give them as much funding as they could come up with, but I cant remember which entity it came down to in the end.
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Apr 4, 2014 02:48
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Shbobdb posted:The "naw-ah!" defense is not recognized in most countries. Neither of you provided any evidence that all factory farms always torture animals. There's also no actual hard-and-fast definition of a factory farm other than as a scare term akin to "anti-life" and "anti-family". It'd be really simple to do this if it was true. zoux posted:I looked it up, their charter (1982) gives them purview over cases that "must be investigated in Travis County" so there's probably a list of statutes that set those criteria, and I have no idea what it is. I do know that due to the cut in state funding, they are currently only investigating poo poo locally. I remember that either the county or the city was going to give them as much funding as they could come up with, but I cant remember which entity it came down to in the end. Ok yeah, that makes it a lot more sensible.
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Apr 4, 2014 02:53
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Shbobdb posted:The "naw-ah!" defense is not recognized in most countries. Tell us again how everyone who thinks cockfighting should be banned is a virulent racist.
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Apr 4, 2014 03:00
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It turns out that President William Henry Harrison probably didn't die of pneumonia he contracted by giving a long inauguration speech, but rather because the White House's water supply was full of poo poo.
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Apr 4, 2014 03:08
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Tinted Windows, Re-read my posts. I'm not claiming anything as an "always" position. Just a vast majority, which I have supported. But good job, Peyton Strawmanning, you uncovered the case! Paragon, Did I stumble into Freep where asserting that privilege influences how we relate to issues automatically means I'm calling everyone a virulent racist?
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Apr 4, 2014 03:41
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Shbobdb posted:Paragon, If it helps I dislike both cockfighting and fox hunting. So I guess I feel morally superior to mudpeople and blue bloods. Should I check my 'Not British Upper Class' privilege as well?
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Apr 4, 2014 03:47
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loquacius posted:Don't we have a moral obligation to provide large quantities of tofu and seitan to bear populations so they can get their daily protein intake without having to slaughter helpless herbivores? We have the capability to hold the bears to a higher standard than they hold themselves! Aren't we killing their prey ourselves, through inaction? Zoux is talking about cockfighting/dogfighting, not eating meat. Which is also why your argument is really dumb. I'm not being sarcastic or anything, you just missed the context and I can kinda see why, so I thought I'd letcha know.
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Apr 4, 2014 03:47
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Nah, I was saying that appeals to nature, essentially biotruths, are a bad way to form an ethos. So eat meat, but don't justify it by saying humans evolved to eat meat, or because other animals eat meat.
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Apr 4, 2014 03:52
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Neremworld posted:Zoux is talking about cockfighting/dogfighting, not eating meat. Which is also why your argument is really dumb. I don't think he was, because my initial post (a response to Shbobdb) mentioned bears eating meat, and Zoux's post was a response to that one and mentioned the habits of bears explicitly, and I don't think anyone was talking about bears starting cockfighting rings.
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Apr 4, 2014 03:52
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Joementum posted:It turns out that President William Henry Harrison probably didn't die of pneumonia he contracted by giving a long inauguration speech, but rather because the White House's water supply was full of poo poo.
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Apr 4, 2014 03:55
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loquacius posted:I don't think he was, because my initial post (a response to Shbobdb) mentioned bears eating meat, and Zoux's post was a response to that one and mentioned the habits of bears explicitly, and I don't think anyone was talking about bears starting cockfighting rings. zoux posted:Nah, I was saying that appeals to nature, essentially biotruths, are a bad way to form an ethos. So eat meat, but don't justify it by saying humans evolved to eat meat, or because other animals eat meat. Ah, so I was the confused one!  Thanks for letting me know.Shbobdb posted:Tinted Windows, You did kind of come into this thread with this post Shbobdb posted:If we're going to continue disparaging the gambling habits of the poor, minorities and (especially) poor minorities, we should really have a separate thread so we can really feel morally superior to those cockfighting mudpeople. which said nothing about how privilege influences how we relate to anything and a lot more about how we feel superior to them "poor cockfighting mudpeople".
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Apr 4, 2014 03:57
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Hold on, so tell me if I'm reading this wrong. Shbobdb's position seems to be that we shouldn't outlaw cockfighting but we should stop eating meat? Also, what are the odds that that "states' rights" group in Kentucky is comprised of poor minorities? (I'm guessing about zero or they probably wouldn't use the "states' rights" buzzword)
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Apr 4, 2014 04:02
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Shbobdb posted:Did I stumble into Freep where asserting that privilege influences how we relate to issues automatically means I'm calling everyone a virulent racist? It is pretty hilarious bringing up privilege influencing peoples' views when your entire argument qualifying eating meat as equivalent to watching animals kill each other for entertainment is that people have alternative food options, which completely ignores the people who rely on the affordability of mass produced factory farmed meat to meet their nutritional needs. Your argument may hold true that some yuppie rear end in a top hat is a hypocrite, but he's probably eatitng free range grassfed meat already. Your profession has turned you into a weird beep boop robot about ethics pertaining to animals. Maybe work on that.
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Apr 4, 2014 04:07
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JT Jag posted:The long speech thing is going to keep being printed in schoolbooks until the end of time though Who wants to read about 19th century presidents drinking poo poo? There's no reinforcement of parental nagging there. Wear a coat saves lives, don't drink poo poo is just common sense in this day and age.
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Apr 4, 2014 04:24
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Gyges posted:Who wants to read about 19th century presidents drinking poo poo? There's no reinforcement of parental nagging there. Wear a coat saves lives, don't drink poo poo is just common sense in this day and age. Look, we can split the difference and just say he was full of poo poo.
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Apr 4, 2014 04:27
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His speech was also, reportedly, really lovely.
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Apr 4, 2014 04:29
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loquacius posted:Hold on, so tell me if I'm reading this wrong. Shbobdb's position seems to be that we shouldn't outlaw cockfighting but we should stop eating meat? Urdnot Fire fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Apr 4, 2014 |
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Apr 4, 2014 04:34
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loquacius posted:Hold on, so tell me if I'm reading this wrong. Shbobdb's position seems to be that we shouldn't outlaw cockfighting but we should stop eating meat? Also, what are the odds that that "states' rights" group in Kentucky is comprised of poor minorities? (I'm guessing about zero or they probably wouldn't use the "states' rights" buzzword) I honestly don't know the demographics of cockfighting in Kentucky, but in popular culture it's generally associated with Latinos and immigrants from Latin America, which is probably what s/he's getting at. Many Latin American countries have a strong cockfighting tradition, and many immigrants brought that tradition with them, but before that cockfighting was seen as popular among African-Americans and poor whites. It's debatable whether this is an independent thing or one of those the-law-in-its-majestic-equality deals, and I don't have a strong position on it, but in New York at least the cockfighting raids tend to pick up predominantly Latino individuals, such as in the hilariously named Operation Angry Birds.
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Apr 4, 2014 04:40
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Cockfighting also used to have the reputation of being engaged in by Italian immigrants back in the day, so I think it's just one of those assocaitions whose core is "those dang immigrants" and whose ethnicity changes to suit whoever is "those dang immigrants" at a given time.
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Apr 4, 2014 04:44
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Install Windows posted:Cockfighting also used to have the reputation of being engaged in by Italian immigrants back in the day, so I think it's just one of those assocaitions whose core is "those dang immigrants" and whose ethnicity changes to suit whoever is "those dang immigrants" at a given time. This is likely partly true, but at least for people whose origins trace back to Spain and Italy I think it's probably more that they're from places that had a strong tradition and carried it forward. (Spain has banned cockfighting except in the Canary Islands and Andalucía, where it is considered "traditional.")
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Apr 4, 2014 04:46
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I can't wait for election season when cockfighting will just mean it's primary time.
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Apr 4, 2014 05:02
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