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Having an Elizabeth doesn't really stop your Daves and your Georges (or your Tonys or Gordon's for that matter), does it?
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Apr 6, 2014 16:17
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General China posted:Its not like anybody goes on holiday to France ever. They go there for the climate and the food, not for actual French people. I really don't understand what brings tourists to Britain at all most of the time.
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Apr 6, 2014 16:21
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But if the president had a similar low level role to the monarch bribery wouldn't be an issue. It isn't like the Irish president visiting steorn destroyed Ireland's tech sector or anything either. Nothing stopping the president living in Buckingham palace either. Oh well, what can you do?
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Apr 6, 2014 16:25
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Seaside Loafer posted:Apart from Clinton recently they have all pretty much been figreheads havent they? I like to think that the early 2000s would have been much better if Gore had won, but Gore wasn't really that far to the left of Reagan and the GOP would probably have the White House right now if he'd held it until 2008, so
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Apr 6, 2014 16:49
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President doesn't necessarily means Supreme Politician like in France (semi-presidential on paper but the way parliamentary elections are set up in this country generally lead to presidents having majority power) or in the US, plenty of countries like Germany or Italy have presidential head of states with a ceremonial role.
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Apr 6, 2014 16:49
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US presidents wield significant power, just in ways that aren't relevant in the UK, most notably the huge number of judicial and civil service appointments they can make. The veto would be an interesting issue but in a straight swap of a monarch to president with the exact same powers this again wouldn't matter too much. A UK president might be able to make use of the bully pulpit but that would depend on convention and popular attitudes.
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Apr 6, 2014 16:56
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Police uncover possible evidence Saville sexually assaulted children in a care home in Islington, North London: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...llegations.html and a piece by the journalist who first exposed the sexual abuse in Islington: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/jimmy-savile/10746412/Jimmy-Savile-sex-abuse-Islington-is-still-covering-up.html
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Apr 6, 2014 16:58
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ReV VAdAUL posted:I cannot comprehend why so many people are actively in favour of it. I don't think most people really bother about it one way or the other, it's just there, it's part of the furniture, and doesn't really effect most people at all in day to day life, apart from the occasional extra day off. It's a national soap opera really. Princess Anne is sound though, she's helped out a wee local charity I'm involved with quite a few times, sometimes at short notice. A royal turning up is just the kick in the arse that the local councilors, MPs and MSPs need to get their fingers out to solve a problem, and she's always been engaged, informed, and interested when I've met her. Come the revolution, she's excused the wall.
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Apr 6, 2014 17:18
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Kegluneq posted:They go there for the climate and the food, not for actual French people. I really don't understand what brings tourists to Britain at all most of the time. I'd want to go to see all the historical poo poo (a structure older than 200 years?!?!?! wow!!!!!!) and the museums, plus I actually like it colder and more damp Also I'm a fan of peasant food 
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Apr 6, 2014 17:19
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TheHoodedClaw posted:Princess Anne is sound though There is the whole gassing badgers thing though
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Apr 6, 2014 17:35
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ReV VAdAUL posted:What are the common reasons given in favour of monarchy? I cannot comprehend why so many people are actively in favour of it. For a lot of people the Monarchy is an important symbol of the country and a part of our heritage and cultural traditions.
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Apr 6, 2014 17:40
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Kegluneq posted:They go there for the climate and the food, not for actual French people. I really don't understand what brings tourists to Britain at all most of the time. I mean it's why I holiday here.
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Apr 6, 2014 17:53
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Mister Adequate posted:For a lot of people the Monarchy is an important symbol of the country and a part of our heritage and cultural traditions. All of those things are terrible though.
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Apr 6, 2014 18:03
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One of the reasons I'm a monarchist is that I've always found it nice that we can at least have one major political position whose appointment isn't dependent on how much you can rear end-kiss Rupert Murdoch.
kapparomeo fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Apr 6, 2014 |
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Apr 6, 2014 18:06
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Well the Queen is appointed by God and that's pretty much the same thing to Howling Mad Murdoch.
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Apr 6, 2014 18:10
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Gonzo McFee posted:Well the Queen is appointed by God and that's pretty much the same thing to Howling Mad Murdoch. Murdoch wields considerably more power than God these days - Murdoch can make people rich and humble them, the big beardy bloke can barely manage the occasional bit of rain.
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Apr 6, 2014 18:17
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Gonzo McFee posted:All of those things are terrible though. Oh I didn't say I agreed with the stance.
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Apr 6, 2014 18:35
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Farecoal posted:I'd want to go to see all the historical poo poo (a structure older than 200 years?!?!?! wow!!!!!!) and the museums, plus I actually like it colder and more damp  kapparomeo posted:One of the reasons I'm a monarchist is that I've always found it nice that we can at least have one major political position whose appointment isn't dependent on how much you can rear end-kiss Rupert Murdoch. I'm slightly less anti-monarchy than I used to be, mostly because I realised they're the only family of inbred overprivileged posh wankers we can hound for every minor indiscretion. Princess Anne also seems alright, at least up to the badger gassing thing.
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Apr 6, 2014 18:56
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Trickjaw posted:IDS is someone who will brook no rebuttal, anyway. What he believes is correct. Look forward to people in wheelchairs being forced into window cleaning or hod carrying. This is of course believing the fact that disability only manifests in physical form. I'm now imagining someone adapting a motorised wheelchair for uneven surfaces, fitting a hod and buzzing round a building site all day.
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Apr 6, 2014 19:20
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For the next two weeks, I'm still a team member of the Prince's Trust, so until then, I'm in favour of monarchy. Come the 25th, when I'm finished with them, viva la revolution.
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Apr 6, 2014 19:31
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Gonna start a change.org campaign to stop General China from shooting an air rifle pellet into the chest of a Pheasant and making it die a long protracted painful death via infection. Cos if you think you're headshotting/clean killing a Pheasant with an air rifle you just picked up off the market then you're mistaken, if you just left some seeds out or grew some heather they wouldn't dig your poo poo up and you wouldn't have to take a life.
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Apr 7, 2014 09:42
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Get yourself a low weight takedown bow and hunt like a man.
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Apr 7, 2014 09:54
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Phoon posted:Get yourself a low weight takedown bow and hunt like a man. Sorry but the manly way to take down a pheasant is not to hide in bushes with a long-range weapon like a coward. The manly way is to tackle it and break its neck with bare hands. And then wear its plumage.
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Apr 7, 2014 10:24
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Oh I thought he was hunting the rich never mind
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Apr 7, 2014 10:33
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kapparomeo posted:One of the reasons I'm a monarchist is that I've always found it nice that we can at least have one major political position whose appointment isn't dependent on how much you can rear end-kiss Rupert Murdoch. To be honest, I think this is the best argument in favour of the concept of a monarchy. The Queen plays a pretty important constitutional role, and the fact that she's formally a-political and unelected actually makes it simpler for her to play that role than if she were a party-political appointment. Even if a Labour/Tory/Lib Dem president had exactly the same formal powers as the Queen, and exercised them in exactly the same way as the current Queen does, that president's actions would nevertheless be considered suspect by a good part of the UK simply because they were associated with a political party. Even if there was a ban on politicians being aligned with parties for the purposes of the presidential election, you would still get political figures standing, so it would be implicit that they were 'the Labour candidate' or whatever. The role of the monarch in the UK constitution is almost entirely symbolic. If you start mixing the symbolism of the head of state with the symbolism of party politics, the whole thing becomes less trustworthy. If you object to the idea of a symbolic head of state in general then your attitude will be different, but I think in that case you'll have to advocate fundamental constitutional reform - e.g. a switch to a French/German/US-style system. There may be good arguments in favour of doing that, but it's exceedingly unlikely to happen without a major revolution. Despite all that, I agree that the concept of a monarchy does seem kind of insulting and patronising, and the idea of inheriting that position is obviously prima facie objectionable. And the problem with the argument I'm making is that it comes across as saying, 'people are too stupid to see past the symbolism and look only at the way things actually work, so let's make sure the symbolism is clear'. Which is essentially the same as the patronising argument made by Walter Bagehot: quote:The best reason why Monarchy is a strong government is, that it is an intelligible government. The mass of mankind understand it, and they hardly anywhere in the world understand any other. It is often said that men are ruled by their imaginations; but it would be truer to say they are governed by the weakness of their imaginations. The nature of a constitution, the action of an assembly, the play of parties, the unseen formation of a guiding opinion, are complex facts, difficult to know and easy to mistake. But the action of a single will, the fiat of a single mind, are easy ideas: anybody can make them out, and no one can ever forget them. When you put before the mass of mankind the question, “Will you be governed by a king, or will you be governed by a constitution?” the inquiry comes out thus—“Will you be governed in a way you understand, or will you be governed in a way you do not understand?” The issue was put to the French people; they were asked, “Will you be governed by Louis Napoleon, or will you be governed by an assembly?” The French people said, “We will be governed by the one man we can imagine, and not by the many people we cannot imagine.” I think there's a kernel of truth in what Bagehot says, even though he is totally disdainful of the 'mass of mankind'. You can see the same thing with the concept of the Prime Minister. When many people vote in a general election, they think of themselves as electing the Prime Minister. Which of course isn't really what they're doing, but at the same time it sort of is. The British constitution is odd but interesting. Whitefish fucked around with this message at 11:16 on Apr 7, 2014 |
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Apr 7, 2014 11:06
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baka kaba posted:I wonder how much of that property is owned by criminal gangs looking for a safe place to store or launder their arms and drug money. Makes sense that you wouldn't be too keen on meeting the neighbours
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Apr 7, 2014 11:15
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Annual appointment of a new King or Queen randomly selected from the electoral roll (like Jury Service, but you get to live in a palace, ride in a Bentley and meet Barack Obama).
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Apr 7, 2014 11:19
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Bozza posted:Annual appointment of a new King or Queen randomly selected from the electoral roll (like Jury Service, but you get to live in a palace, ride in a Bentley and meet Barack Obama).
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Apr 7, 2014 11:24
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Bozza posted:Annual appointment of a new King or Queen randomly selected from the electoral roll (like Jury Service, but you get to live in a palace, ride in a Bentley and meet Barack Obama). Never work. The government of the day would be selling the winning lottery ticket to the highest bidder, we'd never end up with HRH Enid Stubbs of Paradise Gardens, Walthamstow. It will be THE QUEEN sponsored by BSkyB.
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Apr 7, 2014 11:27
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Bozza posted:Annual appointment of a new King or Queen randomly selected from the electoral roll (like Jury Service, but you get to live in a palace, ride in a Bentley and meet Barack Obama). No, we'd have to change all the money / other poo poo too frequently. 15 year reigns decided by a winner-stays-on rock paper scissors championship open to all British citizens.
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Apr 7, 2014 11:29
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Larry_Mullet posted:if you just left some seeds out or grew some heather Leave some seeds out, gain their trust, eat them when they're not paying attention. 
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Apr 7, 2014 11:37
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Mahmoud Ahmadinejad posted:No, we'd have to change all the money / other poo poo too frequently. 15 year reigns decided by a winner-stays-on rock paper scissors championship open to all British citizens. join the euro, problem solved
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Apr 7, 2014 11:40
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Trickjaw posted:Never work. The government of the day would be selling the winning lottery ticket to the highest bidder, we'd never end up with HRH Enid Stubbs of Paradise Gardens, Walthamstow. It will be THE QUEEN sponsored by BSkyB. Burger King would fork out an ungodly amount of money to ensure that The King was actually The King.
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Apr 7, 2014 11:43
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KKKlean Energy posted:Burger King would fork out an ungodly amount of money to ensure that The King was actually The King. As long as they promised he would creep after people and assault them with free burgers I'm all for it.
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Apr 7, 2014 11:59
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Whitefish posted:The Queen plays a pretty important constitutional role Whitefish posted:The role of the monarch in the UK constitution is almost entirely symbolic. Wait, what?
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Apr 7, 2014 12:09
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Wolfsbane posted:Wait, what? The symbolism is important. Or the importance is symbolic?
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Apr 7, 2014 12:10
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Kegluneq posted:I really don't understand what brings tourists to Britain at all most of the time.
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Apr 7, 2014 12:29
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Cerv posted:join the euro, problem solved The king/queen of Europe?
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Apr 7, 2014 12:42
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Apr 7, 2014 12:48
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Chocolate Teapot posted:The king/queen of Europe? is that also including Russia? If so, you have a pal in everyone's favourite permabanned poster
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Apr 7, 2014 12:49
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