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Didn't Bioware also retcon the 'force eater' aspect of KOTOR 2 because it didn't make sense...only to then reveal an entire, sentient(!) planet in their own canon was going to use the idea? 
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Apr 25, 2014 16:05
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poptart_fairy posted:Didn't Bioware also retcon the 'force eater' aspect of KOTOR 2 because it didn't make sense...only to then reveal an entire, sentient(!) planet in their own canon was going to use the idea? They basically stole the idea whole cloth of Nhilius and retconned it into the big boss baddie of their MMO. Every character they've made in that MMO or retconned is bland and uninspired. Satale or whatever her name is, comes across as a mary sue. The bad guy has literally no personality other than screaming you can't kill me and is just a repeat of Nhilius. That red Sith guy is bland and boring. Even side characters like Vrook, voiced by the amazing Ed Asner, had more life to them. He has motivations and doesn't treat the player like some golden boy and pat his bottom. Vrook outright distrusts the player in both games and at one point berates the poo poo out of the PC for loving up one of his plans.
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Apr 25, 2014 16:26
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YouTuber posted:Have you played KOTOR2? Kriea is easily the best written villian I've ever seen written. Villain in the loosest sense possible, because she everything she does for a super altruistic reason on the macro scale long term even if how she handles it in the short term is evil on the micro. Kriea is very much a villain, it's just that she is one of the few villains in the Star Wars Universe whose motivation is something beyond profit or I haven't filled my Sith quota of kicking puppies and eating babies.
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Apr 25, 2014 16:33
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Crabtree posted:What are the confirmed classes or powers we know about so far and what would be good additions to Inquisition? I've already expressed how I think Chevalier deserves to be in this game so we can wear their goofy feathered hats and kill jerky nobles in petty duels to the death. it'd also be funny if they had a personal battle prompt where the player will always say "Death before Dishonor" before charging in to the attack. Or at least that's what The Masked Empire says is their creed and motto. Well Chevalier isn't a specialization (for warriors the specializations are Champion, Templar, and Reaver), but I imagine that an Inquisitor could become an honorary Chevalier for Celen or Gaspard if you help either one.
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Apr 25, 2014 16:38
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Hunt11 posted:Kriea is very much a villain, it's just that she is one of the few villains in the Star Wars Universe whose motivation is something beyond profit or I haven't filled my Sith quota of kicking puppies and eating babies. That's debatable. It totally revolves around whether or not you view the Force as a good thing or not. Her goal is to destroy the Force since it is all about prophecy this prophecy that resulting in billions of people dead in the push-push of force sensitive people in the thrall of said prophecy. Removing the force users is just means to that goal, be it Sith or Jedi apprentices. That's why she works on killing off all the organizations so the only force users left stem from her direct tutelage and hatred of what the Force does. She views everyone including herself as something to sacrifice towards that goal.
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Apr 25, 2014 16:39
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SgtSteel91 posted:Well Chevalier isn't a specialization (for warriors the specializations are Champion, Templar, and Reaver), but I imagine that an Inquisitor could become an honorary Chevalier for Celen or Gaspard if you help either one. It would be nice if we can get lances like Dark Souls 2. Better even since this game will have horses.
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Apr 25, 2014 18:00
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I think the star wars discussion is interesting because I think the Force and Jedi/Sith is a really really neat comparison to the mage lore in Dragon Age. In both, children have to be ripped away from their parents as soon as their potential is found, and trained in how to use their powers properly. However, the big difference is that in Star Wars, first of all, not every non-jedi becomes evil or dangerous, many live normal lives, and second of all, the big danger they pose doesn't come from some outside threat. Say what you will about the dark side being corrupting, a Sith is born of someone with the ability to throw lightning going 'hey, I can throw lightning. MAYBE I should be in charge, since that clearly makes me the best.' Meanwhile children are ripped away and sent to the circle of magi, where even more of them go insane, every mage that isn't a PC that exists outside the circle is portrayed as evil or a danger, and every mage who goes blood mage isn't just going on a power trip, they're going LOL I'LL CONSORT WITH DEMONS! Also, I can totally see why Kreia's plot in KOTOR 2 was portrayed as impossible in all other media... because neither ending to the game made it out to be possible. In the lightsided ending, the Exile leaves Malachor after wiping out the remains of the sith acadmey there, refounds the jedi, and creates a new order with his companions (all of whom, canonically, became Jedi). Darksided ending, the Exile kills Kreia, wipes her legacy from Malachor, and opens up a proper sith academy, creating a training ground for those who would join the dark side. You can outright tell Kreia that her plan is nuts and wont ever work in the game. I don't know why goons latch onto it so hard as having been a hard canon that the Exile would then go on to destroy the force or anything. SWTOR treats her as just another person the Exile killed because no one else knew her plan - to everyone else in the galaxy, even most of your own party, she was just another insane Sith. And SWTOR doesn't retcn away Nihilus' abilities at all - it's stated at least once in game that Nihilus was taught by the Emperor a lesser version of the ability the Emperor had (the big change being that Nihilus would wither away into nothingness if not fed the force, while the Emperor just continually grows). It strikes really hard of people just wanting to hate on Swtor/Star Wars/Bioware when they try and pretend that everything was retconned away.
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Apr 25, 2014 18:29
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KittyEmpress posted:I think the star wars discussion is interesting because I think the Force and Jedi/Sith is a really really neat comparison to the mage lore in Dragon Age. I don't know. Morrigan and Flemeth weren't really shown to be capital E evil (though Morrigan is kind of a jerk). Jowan, the colossal pain, doesn't directly kill anyone with blood magic and actually uses it in good ways if you let him (to save the possessed brat). He never starts cackling about he's awesome and will take over the world. Also the lore suggests places like Rivain manage just fine with mages being a part of society without the indoctrination / training the chantry gives. ElrondHubbard fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Apr 25, 2014 |
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Apr 25, 2014 22:34
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ElrondHubbard posted:Also the lore suggests places like Rivain manage just fine with mages being a part of society without the indoctrination / training the chantry gives. That's interesting. Checking the wiki, I see Rivain has been fought over by both the Tevinter Imperium's Chantry, the Chantry that's headquartered in Orlais (is there a more specific name for it?) and the Qunari, but remains a pantheist society with a "good" relationship with elves and a circle that's only in place to appease the Chantries and head off another Exalted March (because their country has seen at least three). Oh course, when the Chantry figured out that they weren't keeping the mages locked up full time and even were giving the female mages positions of authority in government, they invoked the Rite of Annulment (9:40 Dragon, so probably contemporary to all the other Chantry/Mage shenanigans that came after Anders).
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Apr 25, 2014 23:06
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KittyEmpress posted:Also, I can totally see why Kreia's plot in KOTOR 2 was portrayed as impossible in all other media... because neither ending to the game made it out to be possible. quote:It strikes really hard of people just wanting to hate on Swtor/Star Wars/Bioware when they try and pretend that everything was retconned away. quote:And SWTOR doesn't retcn away Nihilus' abilities at all - it's stated at least once in game that Nihilus was taught by the Emperor a lesser version of the ability the Emperor had (the big change being that Nihilus would wither away into nothingness if not fed the force, while the Emperor just continually grows).
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Apr 26, 2014 07:07
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Well, the original explanation for Nihlus' power was that he watched the Exile become a wound in the force from the impact of Malachor V, and learned how to make himself into one, then 'upgraded' it into becoming a black hole to the force. The retconned version is that Nihlus' power was that he watched the Exile become a wound in the force, learned how to make himself into one by doing an act so heinous the Sith Emperor himself noticed, then was taught how to upgrade it. It's sorta a cop out and obviously there to tie together the games with a bigger bad, but it's not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. Kreia's teachings die out because you literally murder the last person who believes in them, not because of some huge anti-obsidian agenda.
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Apr 26, 2014 07:19
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Lotish posted:That's interesting. Checking the wiki, I see Rivain has been fought over by both the Tevinter Imperium's Chantry, the Chantry that's headquartered in Orlais (is there a more specific name for it?) and the Qunari, but remains a pantheist society with a "good" relationship with elves and a circle that's only in place to appease the Chantries and head off another Exalted March (because their country has seen at least three). Oh course, when the Chantry figured out that they weren't keeping the mages locked up full time and even were giving the female mages positions of authority in government, they invoked the Rite of Annulment (9:40 Dragon, so probably contemporary to all the other Chantry/Mage shenanigans that came after Anders). According to the wiki, there is the "Imperial Chantry" of Tevinter, and there is the "Chantry of Andraste" in Orlais. I wonder how anybody is supposed to think that the Chantry of Andraste is right, when we see several examples how to treat mages (who really are dangerous, with the potential to cause huge destruction) that work better than the Circle system. Even in Tevinter they are better at keeping their mages from becoming abominations.
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Apr 26, 2014 07:48
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It would be easier just to call them the Black and White Chantries, after their respective Divines.
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Apr 26, 2014 07:53
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Torrannor posted:According to the wiki, there is the "Imperial Chantry" of Tevinter, and there is the "Chantry of Andraste" in Orlais. I'm pretty sure we aren't, but DAII tried to "balance" mages and Templars in such a hamfisted way that both looked like complete lunatics. If it had been more like Origins or we'd seen some more alternative systems instead of tossing demons and blood mages everywhere for maximum mindless fighting, there could have been some debate. Geostomp fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Apr 26, 2014 |
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Apr 26, 2014 13:19
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Alouicious posted:You lose reputation with her for not sacrificing an entire room of elven slaves for no reason. That's pretty drat evil bro Her entire argument for it every time though is "BUT I WANT YOU TO DO EVIL FOR POWER". She's an incredibly sadistic child, but a spoiled brat all the same. Torrannor posted:According to the wiki, there is the "Imperial Chantry" of Tevinter, and there is the "Chantry of Andraste" in Orlais. I'm sure Bioware was attempting to make their own short sighted version of the East-West Schism that resulted in the Eastern Orthodoxy and the Roman Catholic Church. Only we haven't yet seen how the Tevinter male priests are obviously slightly eviler than the regular insane White Chantry because of BLOOD MAGIC SACRIFICES AND BETRAYAL. Which would be cool but too much effort to see really sleasy dealing in magics to promote yourself to a higher position/protect your neck against every other plotting magister. Only now that I think about it, its a little bit in reverse because Tevinter Chantry are the one that stayed with the game's version of Rome, but they're also something along the lines of Constantinople in being the surviving Eastern part of the empire. The Adresteites are still hardcore "MAGIC IS BAD" camp, but there were too many surviving Magisters to accept being herded into a Circle so they're still running things the same as always, only now they have their own version of Chantry priests saying the Maker's okay with magic. Anyone hardcore Andrestite could easily look at it and go "Well, see? This is what happens when you don't double down on mages. They rule us all like slaves!" Crabtree fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Apr 27, 2014 |
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Apr 27, 2014 00:34
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Aren't Ferelden and Orleas on the Southern Hemisphere of Thedas? A one-to-one comparison wouldn't fit then?
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Apr 27, 2014 01:07
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Aren't Ferelden and Orleas on the Southern Hemisphere of Thedas? A one-to-one comparison wouldn't fit then? They are. It gets colder as the locales get more southern.
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Apr 27, 2014 23:34
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Nichael posted:They are. It gets colder as the locales get more southern. they pretty much just flipped the map upside down.
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Apr 28, 2014 09:42
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To any of y'all eager beavers dumb enough to preorder a game by the makers of Dragon Age II, Mass Effect 3, and SWTOR, it's now available on GMG and you can apply the current 20% off voucher code to your order.
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Apr 28, 2014 13:14
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Stroth posted:they pretty much just flipped the map upside down. In the fine tradition of Drakengard...
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Apr 28, 2014 13:25
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did they really rip off the name of Anders' cat too. I mean I knew they lifted from Game of Thrones wholesale but I thought they'd at least change the names
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Apr 28, 2014 16:01
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epitasis posted:did they really rip off the name of Anders' cat too. I mean I knew they lifted from Game of Thrones wholesale but I thought they'd at least change the names There's a "Sir Pounce-a-lot" in Game of Thrones?! 
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Apr 28, 2014 17:48
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Bored posted:There's a "Sir Pounce-a-lot" in Game of Thrones?! If the most recent episode has taught me anything, one of the little blonde Baratheon boys has a cat named Ser Pounce.
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Apr 28, 2014 17:54
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PantsBandit posted:If the most recent episode has taught me anything, one of the little blonde Baratheon boys has a cat named Ser Pounce. Lol. I did not know that. Well that ruins my sarcastic reply. I also have a cat named Pounce. He was named for the kitten that lost his tail in battle in "Tailchaser's Song". Technically, it's Pouncequick, but I call him Pounce.
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Apr 28, 2014 17:59
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yeah there was a Ser Pounce in the books and he debuted on yesterday's ep and now everyone is going gaga for him. Dragon Age was careful to add the "-a-Lot" I guess.
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Apr 28, 2014 18:02
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epitasis posted:yeah there was a Ser Pounce in the books and he debuted on yesterday's ep and now everyone is going gaga for him. Dragon Age was careful to add the "-a-Lot" I guess. Sorry, but it's a little bit like naming your cat "Tiger". I don't think ASOIAF can claim copyright on that name.
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Apr 28, 2014 18:05
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"Ser Pounce" is the same degree of generic as "Tiger"?? No.
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Apr 28, 2014 18:19
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It's obviously at least a nod to A Song of Ice and Fire, given the whole using ser instead of sir is, in the first place, lifted wholesale from those books. The Grey Wardens also bear a striking similarity to the Night's Watch.
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Apr 28, 2014 18:22
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Mung Dynasty posted:To any of y'all eager beavers dumb enough to preorder a game by the makers of Dragon Age II, Mass Effect 3, and SWTOR, it's now available on GMG and you can apply the current 20% off voucher code to your order. Xbones are pre-order proof, so... 
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Apr 28, 2014 18:24
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epitasis posted:"Ser Pounce" is the same degree of generic as "Tiger"?? No. No, you're right. Absolutely no one before GRRM noticed that cats pounce on things. The "ser" is certainly not incidental to the setting and a dead a giveaway of plagiarism. Actually it probably is a nod to the books but who the gently caress cares its a cat.
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Apr 28, 2014 18:39
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Android Blues posted:It's obviously at least a nod to A Song of Ice and Fire, given the whole using ser instead of sir is, in the first place, lifted wholesale from those books. The Grey Wardens also bear a striking similarity to the Night's Watch. Yeah I've been replaying Dragon Age 1 for the past few days and since watching the show the influence is really obvious. I wish they hadn't lifted that 'Ser' thing as it annoys me. Oh very smart, you changed one letter from the English word, what an exotic fantasy world you have created.
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Apr 28, 2014 18:48
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Android Blues posted:It's obviously at least a nod to A Song of Ice and Fire, given the whole using ser instead of sir is, in the first place, lifted wholesale from those books. Raygereio fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Apr 28, 2014 |
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Apr 28, 2014 18:58
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Raygereio posted:Other books and settings have used "Ser" before GRRM did. It's also a legitimate Italian "medieval-y" contraction (from "messere").
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Apr 28, 2014 19:01
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so why do non-Italian cultures use it in either of those works of fiction christ that poo poo always bothers me
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Apr 28, 2014 19:14
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Alouicious posted:so why do non-Italian cultures use it in either of those works of fiction I for one can't think of any reason why Italy would have had huge cultural influence on other European cultures since late antiquity, especially on works set in a sort of middle ages.
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Apr 28, 2014 19:18
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Alouicious posted:so why do non-Italian cultures use it in either of those works of fiction Plus in the Free Marches they actually use Messere, so transmission and contraction makes perfect sense in universe.
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Apr 28, 2014 19:25
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Alouicious posted:so why do non-Italian cultures use it in either of those works of fiction Tons of stuff uses affectations like that to confer an automatic understanding to the reader. It's to give it a period-piece feel while still making it clear that this is not actually medieval Europe/whatever and that you should expect some of those rules to be ignored/broken.
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Apr 28, 2014 19:28
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Fojar38 posted:I for one can't think of any reason why Italy would have had huge cultural influence on other European cultures since late antiquity, especially on works set in a sort of middle ages. For anyone who doesn't know anything about history, Italy was consistently the richest place in the world, especially in the middle ages. Their currencies were considered safer currency to trade in than the currencies of the Holy Roman Empire, because they had so much money.
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Apr 28, 2014 19:29
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KittyEmpress posted:For anyone who doesn't know anything about history, Italy was consistently the richest place in the world, especially in the middle ages. Their currencies were considered safer currency to trade in than the currencies of the Holy Roman Empire, because they had so much money. Also, general influence on the surrounding peoples by virtue of Rome's imperial legacy and the Catholic Church.
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Apr 28, 2014 19:32
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laff you guys think any amount of thought was put into the dragon age setting
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Apr 28, 2014 19:36
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