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Samuel posted:I'm always bothered by the lack of helmets, which is supposed to make them the faceless avenger. It is like Space Marines. The moment they lose the helmet their life expectancy goes up by 90%. Before then they are reusable assets, after they have a face that took time to model.
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May 13, 2014 05:23
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Ok, we should end this derail, but first, two things to this post:Samuel posted:That you manage to spin this into something to unleash your moral codes on astounds me, I wish it came down to well it's lame and it surprised nobody. But apparently it manages to be problem content against woman, while I'm sure only people who'd actively look for it would find it, actually I'm sure any spindoctor will manage to trash any piece of fiction using a coarse enough filter. 1) It is entirely possible to like something overall and find particular parts of it disdainful. 2) If the covert misogyny in Kerrigan is completely lost on you by the end of the HotS campaign, then you are completely blind to the entire issue. And by the way, the "love story" that Metzen has decided should be the focal point of SC2 is largely either nonexistent or very very subtle in SC1. And given Blizzard's track record with "subtlety," combined with their love of retconning, suggests that they made it up for SC2. RareAcumen posted:People only wear helmets in video games when they're not important. I assume you're discounting player characters? Samus, Master Chief, etc., all had helmets that never revealed their faces during the game. Admittedly, I guess Samus lost her helmet at the end of Metroid, but her face wasn't in a game proper until... Prime, as a reflection in her visor?
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May 13, 2014 05:31
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Synastren posted:I assume you're discounting player characters? Samus, Master Chief, etc., all had helmets that never revealed their faces during the game. Admittedly, I guess Samus lost her helmet at the end of Metroid, but her face wasn't in a game proper until... Prime, as a reflection in her visor? Nah, it was just very poorly thought out. When you've got characters wearing helmets 24/7 amidst people who don't then there's a big chance they're gonna be killed by something or other. It's not really supposed to mean player characters per se just NPCs for the most part.
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May 13, 2014 05:48
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Samuel posted:I don't see why a woman can't be sexy or cannot be allowed to be a victim in any way shape or form, for her to be a "good" female character. I'll agree that Kerrigan isn't exactly a shining example of deep heart wrenching intrigue, but the circumstances you illustrate cut off a lion's share of characters ever created for the sake of "someone might feel lustful", and then proceed to highlight X-men for a broad range of characters which is a bootylicious series to say the least and conforms highly to the categories you mentioned. You're taking it to Mysogyny is okay because uh? The problem is that women in stories are almost ALWAYS made to look sexy and be the victim. Even when it's their own story (Yes, I'm talking about HOTS, but I'll wait till that game's over to go in specifics there.) Even Lara Croft in the latest Tomb Raider game/reboot has to save a damsel in distress. For Samus, two words: OTHER M. Ellie in The Last of Us turns out okay as a character. Which reminds me, must get around ti finishing watching that LP. And Comic books, HA! Practically every big name comic book heroine gets stuffed into a fridge at some point during her career. The problem isn't that women are being made sexy and victimised. The problem is that women ALWAYS get written/portrayed as being sexy/victims. Blizzard has more money than most, and yet they still only write sexy victim females. Even Tosh gets to be a bit vague and mysterious - ie not a typical black person. But the ladies. Nope, no character allowed! Since the next update is I think the last in the colonist arc, I'll save my criticism of one of the other female characters till after that.
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May 13, 2014 05:59
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You see, this is the problem right here. Because you're right. Women are constantly written as sex toys, as damsels in distress, as objects to be fought over. We will see case after case after case of that right here in this game, especially in HOTS. We can see it all over the rest of Blizard's work, all over video games in general, all over comic books and the rest. It is pervasive, and that's why it is not okay.Veloxyll posted:Even Lara Croft in the latest Tomb Raider game/reboot has to save a damsel in distress. And yet, this right here is where that argument loses everyone. Because it's not enough to point out that it happens constantly in all sorts of settings, we have to go a step beyond and start talking about how it's practically always every case no exceptions, ALWAYS, even when people make efforts not to, and then we have to throw Misogyny into the mix too just so people know that it's not ignorance powering this trend, it's vast numbers of people who actively hate women. Lara Croft does save a damsel in distress in her game, but somehow the fact that Lara herself, the main character of the game is not a damsel in distress, and that the game spends so much time ensuring that we know that she is not. Did all the people who wrote her and created that game hate women too? Because they had the temerity to have Lara rescue another female character? You cited Ellie from Last of Us as a decent character, but I watched that thread degenerate into mutual screams of outraged feminist credential-dropping over whether or not the creators of the game secretly despised women and felt they should be raped. And while I recognize the serious problems that this game has in this regard, are we seriously going to sit here and try and claim that no female character in this game has a character at all? Really? Because that's not just wrong, it's indefensibly stupid, and it makes the rest of the argument look stupid even though it's not. I know I'm unfairly calling you out, and I'm sorry, and that isn't very fair, but just once I'd like to look at a game through the lens of what it is, not what we make up to make it sound the worst. When we cross the line from "this is a pervasive trend found all over the place" to "every game that will ever be made is equally hateful towards Women and no efforts are ever made otherwise", we lose the whole point of the argument in the first place. Whatever you think of the latest Tomb Raider, if you honestly think that it's basically the same thing as Other M, that flawed though it might be, it's not a major step forward over previous incarnations, if you can't recognize that beyond the same accusations of literal woman-hatred on the part of practically every single person in the entire game industry, then how do you expect anyone to take you seriously on the rest of it? Because that's the bitch of it. You're right. You're ultimately right. And yet all I get out of this response is bile and bitterness. We're literally accusing someone of abetting the hatred of women because he enjoyed Starcraft. And that's just insane. It casts the entire point into aspersions. It makes you wrong by association. And that's not okay either.
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May 13, 2014 07:05
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Veloxyll posted:You're taking it to Mysogyny is okay because uh? Other M didn't exist. I refuse to consider it anything near real. Samus is a stoic badass that blows up planets and kills Ridley in all it's forms. I just wanted more prime. Prime was good, why can't we have more? But still, for Metroid, you are basically playing a suit of armor. The fact it is a chick inside is pretty much meaningless and it has no impact on the story. As far as Lara? She was doomed from the start. Sorry, but athletes and any woman that is going to do anything physical like she does binds em so they don't flop around. Also no one worth their salt would wear a loving tank top in a jungle. Loose, lightweight, covering, and breathable are the way to go. I think only Ellie and Alyx can be counted among the "Not hosed by mysogeny" as female characters. And even for them, there is some debate.
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May 13, 2014 07:10
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Zebrin posted:Other M didn't exist. I refuse to consider it anything near real. Samus is a stoic badass that blows up planets and kills Ridley in all it's forms. I think I might have bad news for you! Maybe. I honestly don't know what the point they were trying to make is.  quote:As far as Lara? She was doomed from the start. Sorry, but athletes and any woman that is going to do anything physical like she does binds em so they don't flop around. Also no one worth their salt would wear a loving tank top in a jungle. Loose, lightweight, covering, and breathable are the way to go. Sorry to go this direction but I don't think that proper binding for her tits was a big thing on the minds of the developers back in 1996. Or anyone by then.
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May 13, 2014 07:19
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What a strange direction for this thread to go.
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May 13, 2014 07:35
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oh yes oh god yes form the head FORM THE HEAD unghhhh...
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RareAcumen posted:Sorry to go this direction but I don't think that proper binding for her tits was a big thing on the minds of the developers back in 1996. Or anyone by then. The development of Lara Croft['s boobs] into unrealistic proportions was an accident that the higher-ups told Gard to keep. Gard accidentally made her bust size 150% the size it was supposed to be and was told to keep it. And your Metroid picture is something of a red herring. In Metroid and Metroid 2, you saw those graphics at the end of the game, and, in Metroid at least, only after completing the game so fast. It was absolutely progressive for its time, but it never really improved. It wasn't until Fusion, kinda, and Zero Mission, especially, that Samus-as-sexy-lady bled into the game experience itself. Prime completely distanced itself from that (which was fantastic), but we saw how that turned out...
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May 13, 2014 07:37
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RareAcumen posted:I think I might have bad news for you! Maybe. I honestly don't know what the point they were trying to make is. The point I was making was that, even if she is a woman, the difference is cosmetic at best. And completely meaningless in terms of character progression. Even Lara Croft has some details that get hammered out of her being a woman. If there was a dude in the power armor, Metroid would play exactly the same.
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May 13, 2014 07:50
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Folks, I get the feeling this barely pertains at all to StarCraft 2 (and this LP!) at this point. Could y'all reel it in?
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May 13, 2014 07:58
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Zorak posted:Folks, I get the feeling this barely pertains at all to StarCraft 2 (and this LP!) at this point. Could y'all reel it in? I was about to type a post but okey  I actually wanted to say, seeing the Zeratul mission on Brutal is all kinds of surprise awesome and difficult. I'm not really good enough to play on the harder difficulties but it looks really fun! Will you be doing both Endgame prep missions? Samuel fucked around with this message at 08:19 on May 13, 2014 |
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May 13, 2014 08:03
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I havent played starcraft in ages... Mengsk was the original villain from the first game yeah? What happened to the UED and its leader?
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May 13, 2014 09:49
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Jade Star posted:I havent played starcraft in ages... Mengsk was the original villain from the first game yeah? What happened to the UED and its leader? They all died. The end. Kerrigan pretty much killed them all. DuGalle managed to commit suicide before being killed at least. Torrannor fucked around with this message at 10:24 on May 13, 2014 |
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May 13, 2014 09:56
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Yeah the ending of Brood Wars was brutal to the UED. The final mission is everyone left in the universe binding together against Kerrigan above Char and failing. It literally ends on the UED admiral writing a letter for his wife and shooting himself in the head.
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May 13, 2014 10:22
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Xoidanor posted:Yeah the ending of Brood Wars was brutal to the UED. The final mission is everyone left in the universe binding together against Kerrigan above Char and failing. It literally ends on the UED admiral writing a letter for his wife and shooting himself in the head. That maybe never arrives because I got the impression Kerrigan ambushed the fleet in deep space and annihilated it.
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May 13, 2014 10:36
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Torrannor posted:They all died. The end. Some survived as mercenaries, and we've seen them in this playthrough. Looking forward to seeing the mercenary battlecruisers, I never did use those
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May 13, 2014 11:27
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Ultralisks can burrow now, that's pretty cool.
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May 13, 2014 11:36
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Samuel posted:I'm not really good enough to play on the harder difficulties but it looks really fun! Veloxyll posted:That maybe never arrives because I got the impression Kerrigan ambushed the fleet in deep space and annihilated it.
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May 13, 2014 12:44
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Poil posted:To be fair the difficulty isn't consistent. Some missions can be ballbreaking on hard and others are a breeze even on brutal. Given that he was using a grammaphone, this isn't certain.
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May 13, 2014 13:31
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The_Frag_Man posted:Ultralisks can burrow now, that's pretty cool. Yeah, pretty much everything can now which is pretty nice.
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May 13, 2014 14:53
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Samuel posted:I was about to type a post but okey Fortunately for rubbish players like me, Zeratul's first mission and one other mission later being hero-based means they're basically just puzzles, and they can be done without as much need for a good grasp of the mechanics. I'm currently stumbling my way through Hard mode again... primarily since I was getting anxious about the wait for this last video... and it's so much easier to pre-plan your moves. After all, a lot of the difficulty of high-level Starcraft play comes from multitasking, remembering to start creating another wave of troops and workers every twenty seconds while you're simultaneously planning out an assault, executing it, and watching the minimap for any little enemy blips where there shouldn't be any. Speaking of, Raldan, please stop making me look bad at StarCraft by breezing through missions like The Dig on Brutal. I'd really appreciate it if you could be more rubbish in future videos - forgetting to build workers for three minutes, saying "Oh poo poo where's that bioball I was building somewhere," clicking on the flashing minimap after thirty seconds to see one side of your base defences wiped out... that sort of thing. Thanks in advance. EDIT: Since at least one person's assumed I was being serious, I feel I should clarify that I wasn't. It's fun to see people destroy Brutal difficulty, it's not fun to see Brutal difficulty destroy people. WFGuy fucked around with this message at 18:49 on May 14, 2014 |
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May 13, 2014 19:12
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WFGuy posted:Speaking of, Raldan, please stop making me look bad at StarCraft by breezing through missions like The Dig on Brutal. I'd really appreciate it if you could be more rubbish in future videos - forgetting to build workers for three minutes, saying "Oh poo poo where's that bioball I was building somewhere," clicking on the flashing minimap after thirty seconds to see one side of your base defences wiped out... that sort of thing. Thanks in advance. Imagine playing against him in multiplayer. 
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May 13, 2014 22:45
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WFGuy posted:Speaking of, Raldan, please stop making me look bad at StarCraft by breezing through missions like The Dig on Brutal. I'd really appreciate it if you could be more rubbish in future videos - forgetting to build workers for three minutes, saying "Oh poo poo where's that bioball I was building somewhere," clicking on the flashing minimap after thirty seconds to see one side of your base defences wiped out... that sort of thing. Thanks in advance. You'd have to cut off both of his hands to get him to do that. You're asking him to completely undo what four years of regular play has imprinted on him. This is like asking a professional musician to play like poo poo just so you don't look so bad in comparison. It's very difficult to do that.
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May 13, 2014 22:58
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Hey were those.. not quite sunken colonies.. walking around..? What the?
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May 14, 2014 11:52
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They're called Spine Crawlers, and they're basically sunken colonies that can uproot themselves and wander around. They can't attack while they're in mobile mode though.
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May 14, 2014 13:24
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Yeah, as we'll see in HotS Sunken Colonies have been deprecated and are basically extinct.
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May 14, 2014 14:12
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SirSamVimes posted:They're called Spine Crawlers, and they're basically sunken colonies that can uproot themselves and wander around. They can't attack while they're in mobile mode though. Do they use up supply? Do they generate creep?
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May 14, 2014 14:12
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The_Frag_Man posted:Do they use up supply? Do they generate creep? No and No.
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May 14, 2014 14:12
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The_Frag_Man posted:Do they use up supply? Do they generate creep? Creep spread falls entirely under three sources: Hatcheries, Creep Tumors, and Overlords that have evolved to spread it.
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May 14, 2014 14:41
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Starcraft 2's creep is primarily generated by creep tumors, which can be laid by a queen. One creep tumor can build another, though it takes a little time, and they're burrowed and give vision, too, so the more tumors you have around the map, the more you can see--it acts as a basic scouting or early-warning system if you're playing Zerg.
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May 14, 2014 15:32
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Additionally, zerg units move more quickly on creep. They don't regenerate health more quickly on it; I don't know if that was the case in BW but it's a common misconception that people have.
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May 14, 2014 16:12
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They do in the HOTS Campaign, which might be why people are confused. But a lot of things happen in the HOTS campaign that don't in the regular game.
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May 14, 2014 16:35
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GenericOverusedName posted:Additionally, zerg units move more quickly on creep. They don't regenerate health more quickly on it; I don't know if that was the case in BW but it's a common misconception that people have. I think it was in both Broodwar and HOTS. Thus people think that the single player game works the same as multiplayer. (Apologies if that was a bit condescending. I've come straight from complaining about the government. Certain attitudes take a few minutes to disperse)
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May 15, 2014 11:13
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Didn't seem condescending to me. I'm not sure why Blizzard made the SP different from MP in that regard though, that is awfully confusing.
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May 15, 2014 15:22
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I can't remember the exact numbers, but most of the people who bought Starcraft 2 played through the single player campaign and never touched multiplayer. Single Player is also where they can give you blatantly unbalanced things and not have to worry about it. If the Terrans had the Hercules in multiplayer, you'd see a lot more Terrans winning.
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May 15, 2014 15:55
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Veloxyll posted:I think it was in both Broodwar and HOTS. Thus people think that the single player game works the same as multiplayer. As far as I know, creep had no effect on zerg units in Brood War, and served only to limit where zerg could build structures. In SC2, zerg ground units get a 30% move speed buff--though queens get a much larger move speed buff. Kurieg posted:I can't remember the exact numbers, but most of the people who bought Starcraft 2 played through the single player campaign and never touched multiplayer. Something like half of all people who have played SC2 have never touched multiplayer.
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May 15, 2014 16:13
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Synastren posted:Something like half of all people who have played SC2 have never touched multiplayer. *raises hand* I'm one of them. I found the very chess-like nature of SC1's multiplayer to be extremely uninteresting, saw that SC2's was the same way, and never glanced at the multiplayer windows again.
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May 15, 2014 16:18
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Cythereal posted:*raises hand* I'm one of them. I found the very chess-like nature of SC1's multiplayer to be extremely uninteresting, saw that SC2's was the same way, and never glanced at the multiplayer windows again. SC2 is a very fast game. You can consider it like chess, but it is entirely possible in this variation that a player will not be able to successfully move their pieces.
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May 15, 2014 16:19
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Yeah, I'm pretty poo poo in MP but love the hell out of the campaigns.
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May 15, 2014 16:21
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