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Insert name here posted:Yeah I never quite understood why that gun got nerfed too. It got nerfed when they added damage fall off to the shotguns, it's still decent with enforcer skills but the Saiga just performs much better with a deeper ammo pool, higher rate of fire, and being magazine fed. gently caress I hope they have drum mags for the Saiga
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Jul 1, 2014 22:41
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Zaphod42 posted:Yeah, for awhile I thought the AI was just bad at switching targets since I'm usually running Ghost, because they'd stay shooting at my buddies and its pretty easy for me to run around and flank them, and sometimes they continue to ignore me while I'm mowing them down by the dozens. But its because I was using fairly low threat weapons. Some cool strategy there, yeah. It seems wonky threat is both how much you can intimidate and how much attention you get, but it works. The Izhma is kind of crap without all the backing skills, just be forewarned. Also, you can't hit poo poo more'n 5 feet in front of you. Conversely, you can clear out the entire Rats house in about two mags if you're set up right. And I mean a packed house.
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Jul 1, 2014 22:42
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That's kinda sad that it seems like it's CAR or bust. Is there a semi-consensus tier list somewhere for the weapons in the game?
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Jul 1, 2014 22:42
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ATP_Power posted:That's kinda sad that it seems like it's CAR or bust. Is there a semi-consensus tier list somewhere for the weapons in the game? Weapon choice has almost zero impact on your performance unless you're specifically doing Deathwish. If you're not doing Deathwish just use whatever looks cool.
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Jul 1, 2014 22:44
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ATP_Power posted:That's kinda sad that it seems like it's CAR or bust. Is there a semi-consensus tier list somewhere for the weapons in the game? The list of go to weapons is pretty much CAR-4, Thanatos, Loco, Deagle. You can of course play with whatever you enjoy, but the considered top guns is a short list indeed. "heavy rifles", aka the AMR 16, Failcon, Eagle, and 762 all hit hard but have very low ammo. I usually don't take any of those guns unless I'm messing about.
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Jul 1, 2014 22:45
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You don't really need a tier list because for Overkill difficulty and below, pretty much anything will work if you're comfortable with it and have half an idea of what you're doing with mods. The only weapons I can think of that would really cripple you are the AMCAR assault rifle, which is complete poo poo in every respect, and the M308, which as mentioned before has been obsoleted twice. In Death Wish difficulty you need to pull out all the stops, and there it's CAR-4/sniper rifle/LMG or bust on your primary, and P90/loco or bust on your secondary. End of discussion.
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Jul 1, 2014 22:46
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Deathwish is its own kind of thing and I'm not gonna bitch about weapon choices on Overkill and below unless you're doing something completely idiotic that you're going to be sucking up ammo for (mosconi/deagle or like a sniper rifle/low ammo secondary) or you don't have silenced guns for a stealth run. But even for the latter that's fine as long as you don't loving shoot until everything is under control. Go ahead and shoot your LMG all over the map on the bank once everyone who could ruin it is controlled.
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Jul 1, 2014 22:47
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Stanos posted:Deathwish is its own kind of thing and I'm not gonna bitch about weapon choices on Overkill and below unless you're doing something completely idiotic that you're going to be sucking up ammo for (mosconi/) If you can kill what you aim at in one shot, the Mosconi is still quite self sufficient. Just try to get two kills per shot and you'll do fine on ammo.
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Jul 1, 2014 22:49
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the FAL being behind DLC I don't want to buy and not best gun in the game is a true blow 
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Jul 1, 2014 22:49
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ATP_Power posted:That's kinda sad that it seems like it's CAR or bust. Is there a semi-consensus tier list somewhere for the weapons in the game? Primary: S-Tier: Car-4, Thantos, KSP A-Tier: R93, AMR-16 (Enforcer only), Falcon, AK 7.62, Brenner, Ishma 12G (with a poo poo-ton of skill support) Average-Tier: Everything Else poo poo-Tier: AMCAR Secondary: S-Tier: Loco A-Tier: Chimano Custom (Mastermind only), Kobus 90 Average-Tier: Everything else poo poo-Tier: Chimano 88 Did I miss anything? EDIT: Melee: S-Tier: Shovel (hopefully) A-Tier: Gun butt Average Tier: Everything else.  Legit Businessman fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Jul 1, 2014 |
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Jul 1, 2014 22:50
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ATP_Power posted:How's the M308? That was my go-to in the first game, does it stack up ok to the CAR or should I just save for the R93 if I want to go for a marksman style rife? It's a bit of a toss-up between the M308, the Rattlesnake, and the R93. M308 has the option to go auto-fire, which is nice when a 'Dozer gets the drop on you. It also has the best RoF and Stability for repeat shots. The Rattlesnake has a slower RoF (bolt-action), but has a slightly larger ammo pool with the same 1-to-1 pickup to ammo ratio as the M308. The main advantage of going with a sniper rifle in general is that you get penetration for shields and soft targets. The R93 is a true sniper rifle, lower RoF still than the Rattlesnake, and a smaller but still reasonable ammo pool (unlike the Thanatos' 15 shots) and, notably, can kill shields in one shot whereas the Rattlesnake takes two. Skoll posted:It's pretty much always been considered a bad gun, man. Hell, I LOVE the AK-5 and use it a LOT, but he asked me if it's viable for late game, which is Death Wish. It's not so I gave him an honest answer, and what is also a widely held opinion. Personally, if you like something, use it; I don't give a gently caress. If you're doing DW though, stick to the loving meta because it's there for a reason. I've seen plenty of folks using it and have never heard any complaints. Just double checking the stats on the one sitting in my inventory, it's actually in the same ballpark stat-wise as my tricked out CAR-4. And like I said, I took "lategame" to mean Overkill and not Death Wish. Even then, it's not like you can't just own and use both.
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Jul 1, 2014 22:53
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John Murdoch posted:
Like we've both alluded to, it's mainly preference. I don't like it personally, but then again, I use every other "bad" gun.
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Jul 1, 2014 22:59
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ATP_Power posted:That's kinda sad that it seems like it's CAR or bust. Is there a semi-consensus tier list somewhere for the weapons in the game? The CAR is great - once you have all the mods for it. That takes a while. The other guns like the Eagle Heavy and Commando don't take as many mods to hit their full potential so they're really useful much earlier (depending on your luck on mod drop). You can play this game for 40+ hours without ever touching Deathwish (which is what I've done) so don't worry about weapon choice too much. Just use what looks cool and experiment.
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Jul 1, 2014 23:05
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PantsOptional posted:They mention the National Gallery in the video itself as being where "the Diamond" is. I don't know why they do so; there aren't any jewels in the National Gallery since it's an art gallery. The Hope Diamond is in the Smithsonian. Specifically, the Hope Diamond is in the Natural History Museum, in the geology exhibit. The National Gallery is a massive two-building complex, and I doubt they're going to render it even remotely accurately. My guess is that they're going to lump a whole bunch of Smithsonian museums together. This is probably why Shadow Raid included artifact and painting assets, so they could get a headstart on producing things for the next big heist. It's a shame they're not using the Natural History Museum, because as the imagedump I'm about to inflict on you will show, it would be the most incredible space for a heist imaginable.  This is the entry hall- the Natural History Museum is about three times the size of Big Bank. The images below only cover maybe a third to a half of the spaces in the museum. It also gets decorated for special events.  Part of the dinosaur exhibit. Yes, those are all full skeletons. There are more in a non-public restoration area I got to see when I was a kid. Imagine stealing those one part at a time.  Part of the Butterfly House. Yes, the Natural History museum has a free roaming butterfly exhibit. Imagine this ingame, at night.  The Hope Diamond exhibit. This is about one quarter of the gems and geology space. They have many of the largest natural gems ever found there, such as the 858 carat Gachala Emerald and the 330 carat Star of Asia Sapphire. This is a fraction of the space. Not shown- the full size blue whale model, the taxidermied animals (including a giant squid), or the fossil vault. Obviously OVerkill would and should remix the space and cut stuff to make it practical (and not too accurate), but it'd be freaking amazing no matter how heavily compromised. Most of the Smithsonian museums would make for incredible heisting spaces, now that I think about it.
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Jul 1, 2014 23:09
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Zaphod42 posted:Of all the classic heists, Casino is the biggest oversight right now. They really need a Casino job where we can go all Ocean's Eleven / 3000 Miles to Graceland / whathaveyou. The problem with that (and therefore with the planned casino heist) is that movie casino heists rely very much on the grifting angle, which this game absolutely does not support with the visibility mechanics. It would have worked fine in Payday 1 (and No Mercy works as a kind of prototype), but I doubt we'll get anything resembling film casino heists in Payday 2. At best, we'll get another Big Bank where you need to take 45 minutes of getting lucky and three quarters of the team not doing anything to stealth the level on higher difficulties.
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Jul 1, 2014 23:14
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Discendo Vox posted:Specifically, the Hope Diamond is in the Natural History Museum, in the geology exhibit. The National Gallery is a massive two-building complex, and I doubt they're going to render it even remotely accurately. My guess is that they're going to lump a whole bunch of Smithsonian museums together. This is probably why Shadow Raid included artifact and painting assets, so they could get a headstart on producing things for the next big heist. Obviously what they should do is make it a multi day mission with the whole museum intact.
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Jul 1, 2014 23:16
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President Ark posted:Whenever they get around to nerfing the Loco - and let's be honest, they should, that gun is loving absurd - they should also buff SMGs. I try to use them but every time I pull one out it feels like I may as well be gently farting on the swats for all the good it does. Ya how about before nerfing the Loco we discuss making enforcers not have to sacrafice their primary and have no choice whatsoever for secondary but the "overpowered loco". Because I garentee you if they nerf the loco with no other secondary options and keeping the saw in the enforcer tree, well gently caress the team I'm taking a real primary.
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Jul 1, 2014 23:16
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That new dlc holy poo poo oh my god.
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Jul 1, 2014 23:16
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This is my setup for the CAR-4, which is basically what everybody considers the best (minus the Exotique because that loving thing refuses to drop) This is what I have for the UAR. Only major differences to note are the total ammo and fire rate. I used it for a while because I got a whole bunch of drops for it early on that made it better than the CAR-4 but I dislike the recoil pattern it has on full auto.  I have this very similar CAR-4 set up on the AK (the one that unlocks at rank 2). I haven't tried it on Deathwish but I suspect it would perform similarly to the CAR-4, just with a little less ammo.  And finally a fully modded Commando 553. I really don't like the recoil on this thing and it sounds real wimpy to me but it performs similarly to all the others.  So now I just don't get why it has to be CAR-4 or bust (besides being able to roll a quad-stack mag with no accuracy loss), although granted all of these are fully modded.
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Jul 1, 2014 23:17
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Lemon Curdistan posted:The problem with that (and therefore with the planned casino heist) is that movie casino heists rely very much on the grifting angle, which this game absolutely does not support with the visibility mechanics. What are you talking about? Getting that bouncer in Nightclub to let you in is tricky! You have to wear your best blue gloves or he'll see right through you.
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Jul 1, 2014 23:18
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-Zydeco- posted:I want to say within 10' or so. It would help indoors such as the inside bank or day three of framing frames, but would be worthless on more open maps such as ED 1. I like it since it helps in the OH poo poo! situations where you're taking the most damage and need to dish out the most in return. Unless it has been silently nerfed, Underdog has an 8 meter radius which would work out to about 26 feet. It is a good skill.
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Jul 1, 2014 23:19
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UnknownMercenary posted:This is what I have for the UAR. Only major differences to note are the total ammo and fire rate. Overkill could make most of the assault rifles worth using again by just upping their max ammo count to max the CAR-4's (or nerfing the CAR-4's to 120). That and making the saw a secondary should really have been done months ago.
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Jul 1, 2014 23:21
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Matlock Birthmark posted:Ya how about before nerfing the Loco we discuss making enforcers not have to sacrafice their primary and have no choice whatsoever for secondary but the "overpowered loco". Because I garentee you if they nerf the loco with no other secondary options and keeping the saw in the enforcer tree, well gently caress the team I'm taking a real primary. Yes, which is why I said SMGs should be buffed. I'm an enforcer, that's literally why I made that suggestion.
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Jul 1, 2014 23:22
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An ideal compromise would be turning one of the lovely saw talents into making the saw secondary. Ideally it should just be secondary anyway but if they nerf the loco without buffing any sidearms it's going to be a real lovely day for enforcers who take the saw for the team. Hello to hoovering ammo!
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Jul 1, 2014 23:27
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Better solution for the saw - it should replace the consumable equipment, not a weapon slot. That way you also have to coordinate with teammates to bring ammo for you.
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Jul 1, 2014 23:30
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Rotten Red Rod posted:Better solution for the saw - it should replace the consumable equipment, not a weapon slot. That way you also have to coordinate with teammates to bring ammo for you. I'd rather it were a secondary so you could bring your own ammo, personally. (While we're at it, make the sentry a secondary replacement too, and let me pick it back up and refill its ammo, that way it will no longer be useless.) Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Jul 1, 2014 |
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Jul 1, 2014 23:34
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President Ark posted:Yes, which is why I said SMGs should be buffed. I'm an enforcer, that's literally why I made that suggestion. Well I apologize, hasty reading of your post plus the post on the steam community discussing nerfing the loco that was linked in the last thread have annoyed me. Lemon Curdistan posted:(While we're at it, make the sentry a secondary replacement too, and let pick it back up and refill its ammo, that way it will no longer be useless.) This would be a very nifty idea.
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Jul 1, 2014 23:34
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Is that a shovel oh my god
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Jul 1, 2014 23:35
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I've always liked that idea best. The saw is amazing because of course a real robber is gonna bring a huge fuckin' circular saw to a heist, but then I always feel really bad when I am inevitably the first person who needs to put down a valuable ammo bag and keep having to run back to it when my secondary runs dry.
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Jul 1, 2014 23:42
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I think the saw as primary is fine. It lets the team skip a number of parts of different heists, and taking one member's primary slot and some ammo is a decent offset to the benefit it provides. If it were a consumable or a secondary, it would make several heists even more trivial.
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Jul 1, 2014 23:59
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404notfound posted:Is that a shovel oh my god Yes it is! 
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Jul 2, 2014 00:01
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UnknownMercenary posted:This is my setup for the CAR-4, which is basically what everybody considers the best (minus the Exotique because that loving thing refuses to drop) Can most of the above guns get to 40 damage without the +5% damage bonus of the enforcer without sacrificing other stats? Because I know the Car-4 can, have a 60 round magazine, selectable fire, 18 accuracy and max stability. It's crazy.
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Jul 2, 2014 00:05
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Thanks for the advice guys, think I'll ditch the UAR (why the hell does it cost so much?) and rock the Eagle while I accumulate mods for the CAR since the iron sights on the Commando look terrible.
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Jul 2, 2014 00:06
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Lemon Curdistan posted:I'd rather it were a secondary so you could bring your own ammo, personally. Or at least put one of the new shotguns on it so a sentry can have limited explosive round spray. Oh, is a shield trying to gently caress with my sentry again? Well I hope you fuckers like fireworks.
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Jul 2, 2014 00:08
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Coolguye posted:You don't really need a tier list because for Overkill difficulty and below, pretty much anything will work if you're comfortable with it and have half an idea of what you're doing with mods. The only weapons I can think of that would really cripple you are the AMCAR assault rifle, which is complete poo poo in every respect, and the M308, which as mentioned before has been obsoleted twice. This right here is the correct opinion on gun selection. Use the "Best" guns if you want all the time, you'll just get bored faster. I break out a JP36 modded for max damage, full-auto M308, AK5 (sounds so good), and Gold 762 modded for a mix of decent stats and most gold plating, etc. just for shits and giggles. On Deathwish you have to put on your serious suit and sperg out about the highest efficiency, but that is its own fun for the right groups.
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Jul 2, 2014 00:17
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I just like to have fun and shoot mans.
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Jul 2, 2014 00:21
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Guys I might barf out of happiness. Do not expect me to ever stealth again once I get a DAO-12 and a shovel. Also, you get to see my dyslexia in action in the OP, considering I went over the gun porn section like eight times for typos, and I still see some.
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Jul 2, 2014 00:28
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Quick question: Is shadow raid even worth doing if you can find people to stealth it? I failed it 3 times and just said gently caress it. It looks like it COULD be interesting but not worth the pain.
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Jul 2, 2014 00:34
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Drewjitsu posted:Can most of the above guns get to 40 damage without the +5% damage bonus of the enforcer without sacrificing other stats? Because I know the Car-4 can, have a 60 round magazine, selectable fire, 18 accuracy and max stability. It's crazy. It looks like I can keep the AK at the same damage and accuracy stats if I swap the competitor's compensator for a firebreather and also take off the quad-stack. The others would need firebreathers and take a -2 hit to accuracy with various hits to stability. ATP_Power posted:Thanks for the advice guys, think I'll ditch the UAR (why the hell does it cost so much?) and rock the Eagle while I accumulate mods for the CAR since the iron sights on the Commando look terrible. If you have the Gage mod pack you really never have to worry about sight drops again.
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Jul 2, 2014 00:37
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Stanos posted:Quick question: Is shadow raid even worth doing if you can find people to stealth it? I failed it 3 times and just said gently caress it. It looks like it COULD be interesting but not worth the pain. It's worth it just to do solo runs to get the layout, then get some teammates in. It can be super-satisfying to run out of there with 12+ bags and a suit of armor. Also, nothing beats the pulse-pounding action of having the 1:00 timer show up while one of your teammates races the clock back to the van with an artifact on his back.
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Jul 2, 2014 00:38
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