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Dick Fagballzson posted:Except Breaking Bad. Which also happens to be the best show of all time. No suprises that having an overall direction for a show with a beginning, middle, and end results in a good show vs just making poo poo up as you go along like LOST or BSG. The show was originally written to take place in Riverside, California Jessie was originally going to die at the end of season 1 Season 1 was cut short because of the writer's strike and they had to rewrite everything because of it Tuco was going to stick around longer but the actor had a role on The Closer and had to leave sooner Even if you make a show with a plot (mild-mannered teacher becomes drug lord, gets his wife involved) and ending (spoiler: Walt dies) in mind nearly everything in between is made up on the fly and changes based on casting and production issues. Season 2 of Breaking Bad was the only one that was completely planned out and written ahead of time and its ending (and all the flashforwards leading up to it) are considered the show's nadir
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Jul 23, 2014 02:03
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i wasn't specifically rooting for gaius but he was great to watch
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Jul 23, 2014 02:03
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...of SCIENCE! posted:spoiler alert: this is literally every serialized television show ever made the show was super, super smug about telling you directly that yes, it did, IN FACT, have a super awesome clever airtight metaplot and oops welp yeah we couldn't come up with one sorry "YOU WILL KNOW THE TRUTH" "THEY HAVE A PLAN" yadda yadda
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Jul 23, 2014 02:09
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...of SCIENCE! posted:The show was originally written to take place in Riverside, California Also the Grey Matter subplot was only reintroduced because a dying kid suggested it to the writers during the writing of the final season And quote:“I have to admit, when we first planted the seed of this M-60 machine gun, we didn’t know a) how it was going to be used, or b) who it was going to be used on,” Gilligan admits in the below behind-the-scenes video. “Uncle Jack didn’t even really exist at that point.” The difference with Breaking Bad wasn't planning, it was execution
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Jul 23, 2014 02:14
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Flesh Forge posted:the show was super, super smug about telling you directly that yes, it did, IN FACT, have a super awesome clever airtight metaplot and oops welp yeah we couldn't come up with one sorry yea thats my main gripe with battlestar. ronald moore wrote a lot of ds9 and had that excellent long interview about where voyager went wrong. he really should have known better
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Jul 23, 2014 02:16
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I don't recall Breaking Bad gloating about its incredible metaplot, like, ever, not even once. BSG kept telling you that its metaplot was the main reason to watch the show. cue some shithead to say "OMG U ACTUALLY BELIEVE ADVERTISING"
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Jul 23, 2014 02:17
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Flesh Forge posted:the show was super, super smug about telling you directly that yes, it did, IN FACT, have a super awesome clever airtight metaplot and oops welp yeah we couldn't come up with one sorry I also remember something with an opera house that they kept hinting was supposed to be important or some kind of big reveal except it wasn't
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Jul 23, 2014 02:20
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kingcom posted:Nah B5 is pretty good but half the cast are literally the worst actors and two out of 5 seasons are dogshit. Farscape has a better ratio of good/bad and has a better plot than your old man cold war analogy. The first season is pretty bad yeah, my biggest hurdle in getting anyone to watch it. The last quarter or so was good though, along with the Mordin/Bester episodes. The middle 3 seasons were undoubtedly great and I didn't hate the last season, the second half was plenty good. Too bad they thought they were being cancelled, would have made season 5 better for sure if they hadn't felt the need to end the show after season 4. I wish we could have gotten more and seen how the telepath/drakh stuff played out(I'm not reading dumb B5 books). I still thinks it stacks up better than any other sci-fi overall, it's certainly on par with breaking bad in my eyes. Only the wire is definitively a better show. Also if you're gonna link Londo/G'kar scenes the elevator one is the best one.
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Jul 23, 2014 02:25
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Dick Fagballzson posted:I also remember something with an opera house that they kept hinting was supposed to be important or some kind of big reveal except it wasn't yeah it just kind of got ignored at some point, after literally dozens of portents/allusions/flashbacks/flashforwards
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Jul 23, 2014 02:26
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NsdQzoIXIE
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Jul 23, 2014 02:26
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Chum Scandal posted:yeah it just kind of got ignored at some point, after literally dozens of portents/allusions/flashbacks/flashforwards Writers, when pressing RDM for guidance, were told, "OMG ITS ABOUT TEH CHARACTRES DUMB ASSESSS!!!!"
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Jul 23, 2014 02:28
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Dick Fagballzson posted:I also remember something with an opera house that they kept hinting was supposed to be important or some kind of big reveal except it wasn't It was the cylon baby reveal...
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Jul 23, 2014 02:28
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Decrepus posted:It was the cylon baby reveal... Except it wasn't? The big thing about the opera house and the final five staring down on Six and Rosline both running after the baby turned out to just be people happening to run into the CIC at the same time as some doors were being closed while the final five were up on a platform despite half of them being needed and should have been elsewhere for stuff.
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Jul 23, 2014 02:53
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I've been watching this too and so far i actually like the religious stuff. That and the lack of technobabble is a welcome thing in sci-fi tv.
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Jul 23, 2014 03:09
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hemophilia posted:I've been watching this too and so far i actually like the religious stuff. That and the lack of technobabble is a welcome thing in sci-fi tv. It gets replaced with a bit of military jargon, but overall it was something they kept to and it worked well
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Jul 23, 2014 03:14
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THS posted:yea thats my main gripe with battlestar. ronald moore wrote a lot of ds9 and had that excellent long interview about where voyager went wrong. he really should have known better This is my take away from BSG: if you're a writer and planning on a serialized story, then loving plot at least a basic outline out first so you don't get nailed by a strike and end up writing yourself into a corner because you tried to out-WTF Lost (which was a bad show). At least we got that wicked sweet AATW cover out of it. Also the religious stuff was ultra realistic because it turned out to be nonsensical horseshit that only becomes coherent if you admit the people of the BSG universe are mere puppets for some callous god thing that destroys civilizations over and over in vicious holocausts just to see what happens I miss thoughtful space opera, everything is loving vampires and psychic cops now. Bullshit.
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Jul 23, 2014 03:15
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Flesh Forge posted:BSG kept telling you that its metaplot was the main reason to watch the show. AND THEY HAVE A PLAN* *They have no loving plan. hemophilia posted:I've been watching this too and so far i actually like the religious stuff. That and the lack of technobabble is a welcome thing in sci-fi tv. Yeah the early religious stuff was fine. See if you sing the same tune when you get to hippie harem Jesus and "The Lord works in mysterious plot holes." Tighclops posted:This is my take away from BSG: if you're a writer and planning on a serialized story, then loving plot at least a basic outline out first so you don't get nailed by a strike and end up writing yourself into a corner because you tried to out-WTF Lost (which was a bad show). At least we got that wicked sweet AATW cover out of it. Here's the problem. BattleStar Galactica came out in the LOST Era, where there had to be SOME MYSTERY, with the secret formula in TV writing at the time being "do things that don't make sense, hint to explain it later, repeat." With no explanations ever thought about. The problem is the show had enough going for it that it did not need this incoherent mystery and hinting at unsolvable puzzles and dropped plot lines. All the good things people remember about the series were grounded in it's premise, and in it's primary plot of humanity fleeing towards a new world, being nearly wiped out. There were even GREAT stories in the later terrible seasons of the show, but guess what? Again, grounded in the core concept: Thinks like worker strikes, food shortages, dealing with the human element of near extinction.. THAT is what made the show work. The loving mystery element could have been tossed entirely, and I mean ENTIRELY out of the window and it would do nothing but improve it a million times over. Don't get me wrong. A mystery is fine, as are mysterious plot threads, if you have some kind of pay-off in mind and that they tie to the main story. Just making stuff up every other week, hinting at being important, then just forgetting about it in the space of 15 minutes is not good. Also gently caress the final episode, and not just for the mystic stuff, but SERIOUSLY throwing your entire civilization into the sun? What the flying gently caress is wrong with you? Doctor Spaceman posted:The difference with Breaking Bad wasn't planning, it was execution I've said it before and I'll say it again, what the Breaking Bad writing staff understood was the concept of retroactive continuity. It's why the show seems so planned out even when it's not. If you throw the staff a curve ball, instead of going "What can I make up to solve this problem?" their solution was always, first, to go "Looking at past episodes and the show's history, how could we use that to solve this problem?" Thus, plot lines, characters, and events get tied into the main story and feel like they were planned foundations for the future stories, when in fact it was the writing staff looking for a foundation and then building the new plot on top of it. If you think of every major event that built off another event in the show and think of it in that context, it makes a ton of sense how they made it work. It was a genius approach and it's why it went right where so many shows went wrong in my opinion. BSG could have, in fact, REALLY loving BENEFITED from this: Instead of introducing a new myyyssterrrious element each week, they could have instead called back to those events later on and tied them into something useful. Instead of just piling them on and never stopping, right to the last frame. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Jul 23, 2014 |
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Jul 23, 2014 03:19
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Blazing Ownager posted:AND THEY HAVE A PLAN* Yeah I agree with all of this. The show got really muddled when they got away from the core premise to focus on their poorly thought out mysticism stuff. I wonder if Moore knows he sort of Voyager'd his response show to Voyager.
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Jul 23, 2014 03:30
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Blazing Ownager posted:The problem is the show had enough going for it that it did not need this incoherent mystery and hinting at unsolvable puzzles and dropped plot lines. All the good things people remember about the series were grounded in it's premise, and in it's primary plot of humanity fleeing towards a new world, being nearly wiped out. the bsg pilot of a decomissioned battleship with no munitions and the next few episodes of running from the cylons, losing a few ships each jump, running out of water, etc was loving incredible
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Jul 23, 2014 03:31
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THS posted:the bsg pilot of a decomissioned battleship with no munitions and the next few episodes of running from the cylons, losing a few ships each jump, running out of water, etc was loving incredible Even in the last season, I think the mutiny plot and what lead up to it was exceptional and showcased what made me like BSG in the first place. Then I had to go back to listening to the drama of a surprise Cylon trying to have a baby with another Cylon until a writer went "oops that invalidates this other plot line, forget that happened." With interludes from "What the hell did they do to my character and why am I Jesus now" Baltar.
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Jul 23, 2014 03:33
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cant get enough taiko drums itt
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Jul 23, 2014 03:40
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numberoneposter posted:cant get enough taiko drums itt Speaking of the BSG music, that is an awesome take on All Along the Watchtower even though plot wise, that too lead to another complete misfire. But seriously, Bear McCreary knows how to arrange some drat good music.
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Jul 23, 2014 03:44
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Blazing Ownager posted:Speaking of the BSG music, that is an awesome take on All Along the Watchtower even though plot wise, that too lead to another complete misfire. But seriously, Bear McCreary knows how to arrange some drat good music. his black sails theme is pretty boss too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFTcA4QLHw0
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Jul 23, 2014 03:46
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Blazing Ownager posted:Speaking of the BSG music, that is an awesome take on All Along the Watchtower even though plot wise, that too lead to another complete misfire. But seriously, Bear McCreary knows how to arrange some drat good music.
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Jul 23, 2014 03:46
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I saw Caprica on the netflix suggestions because i'm watching BSG. Is it worth watching after I finish this/get sick of it
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Jul 23, 2014 03:54
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Blazing Ownager posted:Here's the problem. BattleStar Galactica came out in the LOST Era, where there had to be SOME MYSTERY, with the secret formula in TV writing at the time being "do things that don't make sense, hint to explain it later, repeat." With no explanations ever thought about. While I never was a fan of Lost, I don't think it was ever overtly hyped as having an internally consistent metaplot, it just tricked dumb people into thinking there was one. I'm totally fine with a series having a whimsical or even completely crazy metaplot (as Lost did) but BSG kept trying so loving hard to persuade you that YOU WILL KNOW THE TRUTH
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Jul 23, 2014 04:01
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So I watched Blood and Chrome and Razor along with the entire show, did anyone speak outside of the show and explained what was the deal with Starbuck? Like the whole "coming back" and even the vanishing part at the end?
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Jul 23, 2014 04:03
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Pretty sure they never came up with anything and then their contracts all expired and it didn't matter any more  how about when ghost starbuck plays piano with her ghost dad who is also dead how about that that sure was a thing yes
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Jul 23, 2014 04:05
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Isn't ghost dad God? I thought he was suppose to be God pretty much.
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Jul 23, 2014 04:10
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzY7POVQhp0
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Jul 23, 2014 04:15
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lmao
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Jul 23, 2014 04:32
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No seriously one of the main characters for the entire season who they spent a tonne of time explaining where they came from their history, their emotional problems and relationships just literally turns out to be an angel or something and poof disappears in the final episode. Vanishing into thin air. Good job everyone.
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Jul 23, 2014 04:34
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Show would be better off having just two seasons of the Baltar pimping and drug haze administration
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Jul 23, 2014 05:02
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FADEtoBLACK posted:So I watched Blood and Chrome and Razor along with the entire show, did anyone speak outside of the show and explained what was the deal with Starbuck? Like the whole "coming back" and even the vanishing part at the end? that reminds me, what the gently caress was with leoban(?) creeping on her and stealing her eggs/ovary? i guess another dumb thing that went no where
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Jul 23, 2014 05:09
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I just got to the mutiny against Queen Admiral oval office and this is good television.
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Jul 23, 2014 05:11
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the reason why any of us care is because bsg was a great show overall but a lot of the lazy writing really stands out when under scrutiny
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Jul 23, 2014 05:12
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THS posted:the reason why any of us care is because bsg was a great show overall but a lot of the lazy writing really stands out when under scrutiny It's also a show that peaked halfway and then got lost in the woods around the middle of season 3.
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Jul 23, 2014 05:13
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hemophilia posted:I just got to the mutiny against Queen Admiral oval office and this is good television. it is good television and honestly as much as i bitch about it, its a well produced television show with fantastic characters and more importantly fantastic actors who carry even the worst plots
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Jul 23, 2014 05:13
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the writer of true detective in an interview spoke about how viewers had been so abused now they expect some silly infinite rabbits out of infinite hats thing as the plot progressed because everyone was expecting further twists and reveals in the show which didn't eventuate lol
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Jul 23, 2014 05:14
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THS posted:it is good television and honestly as much as i bitch about it, its a well produced television show with fantastic characters and more importantly fantastic actors who carry even the worst plots I can easily see how this can go sour because as rare as they've been, there have been some extremely dull filler episodes already, and one or two outright duds. I think that's why I dislike really long seasons. Season 2 is really good so far but 20 45 minute episodes is pretty loving bulky. BSG seems like it would have benefitted from being rebooted in 2013 instead of 2003, assuming all the players were the same.
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Jul 23, 2014 05:17
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