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Honest Thief posted:I might have skipped a scene or two but the ending is pretty cynical, they're basically doing it for the money, which I wouldn't call a very understandable motivation, unless youre a sociopath Sure (at the end of The Den), they're trying to make money - but the point is that they're operating out of some quasi-abandoned 'third world' factory and junkyard. 'They're doing it for the money' in the same sense that the gangsters in District 9 are. The fact that they are hella poor does not excuse their actions at all, but does prevent you from dismissing them as just bad people or whatever. They're undesirables making use of the same exploitative system that left them behind. The abandonned factory settIng is especially important in a film about the Internet: the so-called 'post-industrial society' and the 'information economy'. All the 'good guys' work middle-class jobs with computers, and the factory is this terrible, hidden world where the actual production occurs. Where did the grant money come from?
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Aug 8, 2014 04:21
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Thanks to this thread I now have Angst, Detention, The Den and Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer lined up. Suggestions for a nice double feature on my birthday with the wife?
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Aug 8, 2014 12:14
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I'll say this, I wouldn't exactly go into Detention expecting a horror film, I mean, it is, but uh, keep your mind open I guess.
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Aug 8, 2014 12:24
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Kvlt! posted:I just think it's funny that people blame Saw as "torture porn" and creating the genre when in reality the first saw had little to no elements that relate to "torture porn" and was actually a pretty well done, well received movie. The premise of the entire film series - including the first one - is that people have to torture themselves or others to escape a gruesome death.
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Aug 8, 2014 12:30
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ok, so you want extreme? Jörg Buttgereit. I watched Schramm last night and I needed a shower 10 minutes in, it's some messed up poo poo (uber realistic dick being nailed to a table, throat slitting, assorted bad stuff. Nekromantik is supposed to be his masterpiece and whilst his films are definitely trying to say something i'm not sure if I can deal. Anyone else seem this before?
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Aug 8, 2014 12:50
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Sure (at the end of The Den), they're trying to make money - but the point is that they're operating out of some quasi-abandoned 'third world' factory and junkyard. 'They're doing it for the money' in the same sense that the gangsters in District 9 are.
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Aug 8, 2014 12:55
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What really got to me about The Den was the (admittedly unsurprising) fact that there was a market for this poo poo. What I'm wondering, though, is whether or not the dad we see at the end knew the footage was authentic or if he was under the impression it was just some sick fetish he had but no one was really being hurt? EDIT: Hope I'm remembering this right.harpomarxist posted:ok, so you want extreme? Jörg Buttgereit. I watched Schramm last night and I needed a shower 10 minutes in, it's some messed up poo poo (uber realistic dick being nailed to a table, throat slitting, assorted bad stuff. Nekromantik is supposed to be his masterpiece and whilst his films are definitely trying to say something i'm not sure if I can deal. Anyone else seem this before? Most of the movies of his that I've seen are really boring. Der Todesking was probably the only one that I thought had any merit whatsoever as a horror fan and did succeed a bit in getting under my skin.
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Aug 8, 2014 13:33
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:The premise of the entire film series - including the first one - is that people have to torture themselves or others to escape a gruesome death. If you're going to reduce it down to one sentence then lets at least be as fair as possible. People have to torture themselves in order earn the right to live, because the killer targets those that he thinks are wasting the gift of life. So yea of course there are elements there that some would say fit into the "torture porn" category but there is more to it than that. And it was brought up a few pages back but the ridiculous twisting and turning story is a major part of the series that has nothing to do with torture.
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Aug 8, 2014 14:26
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How do y'all feel about the original Saw short movie?
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Aug 8, 2014 14:32
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:How do y'all feel about the original Saw short movie? As someone who can only tolerate the first Saw movie, I'm going to check this out. Hopefully it's not hard to find (haven't started looking). Speaking of horror shorts, I still recommend that everyone watch Daughter (2002). I think it's like 10 minutes and it was shown at Cannes (not bad for a student film...).
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Aug 8, 2014 14:41
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Basebf555 posted:If you're going to reduce it down to one sentence then lets at least be as fair as possible. People have to torture themselves in order earn the right to live, because the killer targets those that he thinks are wasting the gift of life. I don't think any of this precludes what I said.
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Aug 8, 2014 14:53
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Oliver Reed posted:As someone who can only tolerate the first Saw movie, I'm going to check this out. Hopefully it's not hard to find (haven't started looking). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56Go4OVPFIo Horrible quality but what are you gonna do.
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Aug 8, 2014 14:55
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Basebf555 posted:If you're going to reduce it down to one sentence then lets at least be as fair as possible. People have to torture themselves in order earn the right to live, because the killer targets those that he thinks are wasting the gift of life. The movies never really managed to stick to this concept at the best of times (the sheer amount of collateral damage to teach one or two people a lesson is pretty astounding), so I'd probably go with Uncle Boogeyman's description over this one.
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Aug 8, 2014 14:56
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Acht posted:Thanks to this thread I now have Angst, Detention, The Den and Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer lined up. Suggestions for a nice double feature on my birthday with the wife? Also check out Deranged (1974). It stars Roberts Blossom (the old man from Home Alone), and is based on Ed Gein. It's quite solid.
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Aug 8, 2014 15:18
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:How do y'all feel about the original Saw short movie? Pretty bad, but not as bad as the original Saw feature-length movie.
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Aug 8, 2014 15:21
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caiman posted:Also check out Deranged (1974). It stars Roberts Blossom (the old man from Home Alone), and is based on Ed Gein. It's quite solid. Checked it out on IMDB, seems pretty vile. Is there a decent movie in there, too? edit: Ok, I just checked the first 5 minutes of Detention. YES What in the world, was that Daniel Negreanu? Acht fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Aug 8, 2014 |
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Aug 8, 2014 15:45
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Honest Thief posted:Not so sure you can extrapolate their social status from where they operate, since from what we saw it was only a place of operation, and for a clandestine operation makes sense to put it in a remote place, I'd put more importance in the operation being seemingly run by men only, and maybe a father son thing The setting is important. Horror is being outsourced to a place of abjection: so we see menacing industrial corridors and junk. It purposefully recalls the transformation scenes from Silent Hill (which itself references similar ideas from films like They Live) where the thin veneer of multicultural liberalism is eroded to reveal the horror that sustains it. The main character giddily gives her TED-talk inspired thesis proposal about the boundary breaking potential of the globalized internet and then spends the film speaking with overprivileged white folks making penis jokes. The Russian roulette gag is a key scene to consider along with the goofy ending snub. The exploitation that actually exists is obfuscated (was this even real? Or were these just better average porn stars with a niche for creepy dads?) and commodified by and for privileged audiences. Danger fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Aug 8, 2014 |
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Aug 8, 2014 16:08
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:I don't think any of this precludes what I said. I suppose not but I guess the torture porn label aggravates me more than I realized. Don't want to restart that whole thing though.
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Aug 8, 2014 16:18
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sethsez posted:The movies never really managed to stick to this concept at the best of times (the sheer amount of collateral damage to teach one or two people a lesson is pretty astounding), so I'd probably go with Uncle Boogeyman's description over this one. They actually call this out in Saw 6 (which I feel was easily the best movie in the series besides the first one). Hoffman points to one of John's traps where Victim A was supposed to be taught a lesson at the expense of Victim B having no way out on his own power, and notes how John is as big of a monster as he is, just Hoffman isn't pretending to be moral about it.
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Aug 8, 2014 16:49
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Acht posted:Checked it out on IMDB, seems pretty vile. Is there a decent movie in there, too? It has a weird tone, and kind of feels like Motel Hell in certain parts with some hosed-up darkly comic moments. But there's some genuine uncomfortable moments in it, mostly the ones based directly on the real story of Ed Gein. But yeah, depending on your tolerance for 70's-era horror there's a good movie in there and it's all very watchable. It never really gets boring nor does it get so gross or brutal/bleak that you want to turn away. edit: Oh holy poo poo, this two-movie set was linked from Criticker. Thanks, Criticker! http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000068TPD King Vidiot fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Aug 8, 2014 |
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Aug 8, 2014 16:55
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Oliver Reed posted:
Like, i'm wondering what you're watching if you think Buttgereit is boring. From the few i've seen the narrative isn't conventional but why would you want it to be? this isn't cheap pap like Saw
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Aug 8, 2014 17:03
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DeathChicken posted:They actually call this out in Saw 6 (which I feel was easily the best movie in the series besides the first one). Hoffman points to one of John's traps where Victim A was supposed to be taught a lesson at the expense of Victim B having no way out on his own power, and notes how John is as big of a monster as he is, just Hoffman isn't pretending to be moral about it. Yea generally the more Hoffman in the movie the better it is. If I remember correctly he dies in one of the most recent sequels and that kind of killed my interest.
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Aug 8, 2014 17:10
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Basebf555 posted:Yea generally the more Hoffman in the movie the better it is. If I remember correctly he dies in one of the most recent sequels and that kind of killed my interest. Wasn't he killed by Jigsaw's wife for not being the one true disciple or something?
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Aug 8, 2014 17:17
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MacheteZombie posted:Wasn't he killed by Jigsaw's wife for not being the one true disciple or something? Yea that's right. Actually I remember thinking Jigsaw's wife was a pretty fun character as well, but by that point I was pretty much watching just for Hoffman.
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Aug 8, 2014 17:23
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Regarding the Torture Porn discussion, don't make the same mistake I did and accidentally use the term when your therapist asks you to describe some of the horror movie genres you enjoy unless you're pretty sure they would have at least a vague idea of what you're talking about. In my case it led to several sessions of clarification to convince her that no, I do not infact masturbate to the death scenes in Saw IV. If you do actually masturbate to those scenes then yeah bring it up with your licensed mental health practitioner! Mazzagatti2Hotty fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Aug 8, 2014 |
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Aug 8, 2014 17:23
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Mazzagatti2Hotty posted:If you do actually masturbate to those scenes then yeah bring it up! Not in here though.
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Aug 8, 2014 17:26
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MacheteZombie posted:Not in here though. Thanks, I edited that bit to clarify!
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Aug 8, 2014 17:31
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Here's my question: why has nobody else besides me and Penismightier watched I, Zombie: Chronicles of Pain?
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Aug 8, 2014 17:31
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Danger posted:The setting is important. Horror is being outsourced to a place of abjection: so we see menacing industrial corridors and junk. It purposefully recalls the transformation scenes from Silent Hill (which itself references similar ideas from films like They Live) where the thin veneer of multicultural liberalism is eroded to reveal the horror that sustains it. The main character giddily gives her TED-talk inspired thesis proposal about the boundary breaking potential of the globalized internet and then spends the film speaking with overprivileged white folks making penis jokes. The Russian roulette gag is a key scene to consider along with the goofy ending snub. The exploitation that actually exists is obfuscated (was this even real? Or were these just better average porn stars with a niche for creepy dads?) and commodified by and for privileged audiences. Does it change anything that the operation is run by characters we see interacting with the main character through the site in the beginning of the film? Or is that inconsequential?
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Aug 8, 2014 18:33
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Mazzagatti2Hotty posted:Regarding the Torture Porn discussion, don't make the same mistake I did and accidentally use the term when your therapist asks you to describe some of the horror movie genres you enjoy unless you're pretty sure they would have at least a vague idea of what you're talking about. In my case it led to several sessions of clarification to convince her that no, I do not infact masturbate to the death scenes in Saw IV. Can't stress this enough. 7 months in a residential treatment center for me in great part because mental health professionals can't understand why people like horror movies. Anyway, are any of the Candyman sequels worth watching?
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Aug 8, 2014 20:03
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MacheteZombie posted:Wasn't he killed by Jigsaw's wife for not being the one true disciple or something? I think you got it wrong. As far as I remember Gary Elves and his group of Jigsaw survivors capture him and drag him away since they are the once who truly continue Jigsaw's work. I kinda enjoyed that because it reminded me of a bunch of metal fans arguing about who is the true metal fan. And then a metal fan falls over and kills them both.
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Aug 8, 2014 20:19
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Grendels Dad posted:I think you got it wrong. As far as I remember Gary Elves and his group of Jigsaw survivors capture him and drag him away since they are the once who truly continue Jigsaw's work. I kinda enjoyed that because it reminded me of a bunch of metal fans arguing about who is the true metal fan. And then a metal fan falls over and kills them both. You're right I was thinking of John's death.
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Aug 8, 2014 20:29
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And now I have to look up who John was. Was he the cop that got considerably thinner at the end of one movie? All these guys tend to blend together in a funny way. Somebody should do a "Previously on LOST" kind of summary for the next Saw, should it ever come out.
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Aug 8, 2014 20:34
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Kramer. Jigsaw proper
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Aug 8, 2014 20:38
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DeathChicken posted:Kramer. Jigsaw proper This shows you how muddled the characters are. Which brings me to my next point, I was still wrong! I read the synopsis wrong. John left a note for Jill to test Hoffman, and for some reason I was thinking Hoffman died.
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Aug 8, 2014 20:40
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DeathChicken posted:Kramer. Jigsaw proper  I read somewhere that watching soap operas is good for your short- and long-term memory, because keeping track of all the names and relationships is just good exercise for the brain. Which just makes me think I need to re-watch the Saw movies a bunch of times so this kind of thing doesn't happen.
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Aug 8, 2014 20:44
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Saw 6 leaves off with Jill catching Hoffman in a trap and it looking like he's about to die. Saw 7 has him get out of that and kill Jill instead. Saw 7 was really, really drat disappointing after Saw 6 managed to be good.
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Aug 8, 2014 20:45
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DeathChicken posted:Saw 6 leaves off with Jill catching Hoffman in a trap and it looking like he's about to die. Saw 7 has him get out of that and kill Jill instead. After having just read Wikipedia for this information, I can confirm, this is correct.
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Aug 8, 2014 20:46
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King Vidiot posted:edit: Oh holy poo poo, this two-movie set was linked from Criticker. Thanks, Criticker! http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000068TPD The MGM Midnite Movie DVDs are almost all awesome and worth getting, even if a lot of the titles are coming out oh Blu now.
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Aug 8, 2014 21:17
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DeathChicken posted:Saw 6 leaves off with Jill catching Hoffman in a trap and it looking like he's about to die. Saw 7 has him get out of that and kill Jill instead. Hmm that's what I was remembering. So its possible I've never seen Saw 7 and if it still has Hoffman maybe I should check it out.
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Aug 8, 2014 21:26
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