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bassguitarhero posted:If 'local voices' were at all interested in doing good for Ferguson, we wouldn't have a 95% white police force terrorizing a 66% black town. In the overall scope of the picture, the worse black people do in one neighborhood, the better white people do in another neighborhood, because the unemployment, poverty and crime linked to it all get localized into one area and keeps other areas nicer. Local voices aren't going to change that because it's a system that already works well for the majority. Saying that we shouldn't have outside national pressure on a system that's already shown it doesn't give a poo poo about the people of Ferguson is just asking for status quo. Wait, what? Self-government won't work because the town itself is somehow inherently irredeemable? Like, "Concentrating a minority creates a terrible neighborhood [because they're black and blacks are terrible] so why should they rule themselves?" That's what I got from your post.
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Aug 13, 2014 16:41
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meat sweats posted:Sorry, were we talking about Israel? I was talking about the Jews in New York who were murdered at the instigation and, in one case, the direct order of Al Sharpton. I've never posted anything about Israel on this board but I'm confident in saying that murdering American Jews for being Jews is anti-Semitic and that Al Sharpton is a racist for being involved with it. No you were talking about how "I know here in leftist D&D, instigating the death of Jews isn't exactly a negative on someone's resume" to which you're a loving idiot since no one "here in leftist D&D" has ever been in favor of the killing Jews (outside of being anti-Israel to which... duh) nor do they think "instigating the death of Jews isn't exactly a negative on someone's resume".
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Aug 13, 2014 16:44
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A Winner is Jew posted:No you were talking about how "I know here in leftist D&D, instigating the death of Jews isn't exactly a negative on someone's resume" to which you're a loving idiot since no one "here in leftist D&D" has ever been in favor of the killing Jews (outside of being anti-Israel to which... duh) nor do they think "instigating the death of Jews isn't exactly a negative on someone's resume". They sure like defending people that do. Just like you jumped on this opportunity to defend Al Sharpton's anti-semitism.
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Aug 13, 2014 16:49
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Baron FU posted:They sure like defending people that do. Just like you jumped on this opportunity to defend Al Sharpton's anti-semitism. Which none of you have posited any evidence of.
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Aug 13, 2014 16:52
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Baron FU posted:They sure like defending people that do. Just like you jumped on this opportunity to defend Al Sharpton's anti-semitism. You should come into the I/P thread and start tossing around allegations of anti-Semitism, I'm sure it will go over well.
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Aug 13, 2014 16:53
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"Sorry, I know that a black teenager was murdered by police but we need to focus on the real issue here: a black leader I don't like decided to give a speech!"
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Aug 13, 2014 16:54
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Y'all will shoehorn the Jews into anything, god drat.
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Aug 13, 2014 16:57
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I'm glad we could come together in our mutual hatred of Jews and globalization in protesting. End world protest trade, Ron Paul 2016. Buy your misspelled signs locally.
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Aug 13, 2014 17:27
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The best supporting evidence for the assertion "Al Sharpton is too polarizing, his presence will detract from the issue" is the fact that we've spent the past 3 pages going back and forth about Al Sharpton and had 1 post about the recent developments in Ferguson. Shut up about Al Sharpton. Neo, I appreciate your posts from what is happening and photographs. Please keep it up, but play it safe.
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Aug 13, 2014 17:29
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I don't think a lot of you are here to argue, so much as scream. I get it, we're all frustrated. Also, I think St. Louis needs a bit of context. It's got a really oddball history, and I will gladly type something up tonight, but not while I'm at work.
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Aug 13, 2014 17:29
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Luigi Thirty posted:I'm glad we could come together in our mutual hatred of Jews and globalization in protesting. End world protest trade, Ron Paul 2016. Buy your misspelled signs locally. Maybe you should go back to whatever Video Games-oriented thread you normally poo poo up?
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Aug 13, 2014 17:30
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Anorexic Sea Turtle posted:I don't think a lot of you are here to argue, so much as scream. I get it, we're all frustrated. A lot of people think St. Louis is like little Chicago or Detroit when it could not be further from that. Real annoying.
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Aug 13, 2014 17:32
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Has this been proven real yet because if so hoo boy.  
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Aug 13, 2014 17:32
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The Ferguson Riots Are Not a Shift Away From Peace, They're a Challenge to ViolenceVice News posted:We can continue to watch Al Sharpton speechify in front of weeping families, we could walk in somber marches, holding signs, we can wait for the next unarmed black kid to die by police bullet. We can fake the peace, but we should not be so blind to think that the "war zone" of police violence stops at the patrolled edges of Ferguson. I repeat here the words of late philosopher Bernard Williams, who noted that “to say peace when there is no peace is to say nothing.” In Ferguson, with broken glass and fire, something is being said. Miltank fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Aug 13, 2014 |
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Aug 13, 2014 17:34
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Hot Dog Day #31 posted:I'm so confused by all the people arguing that a protest movement should only be centered around local leaders. The community and local leaders should be the primary voice and should definitely be at the forefront of the movement but to deny that outside protest leaders are unhelpful or unwanted de-legitimizes movements like Freedom Summer which were hugely successful and which had the backing of the community they came to. To say that national political figures should keep their hands off of a local protest movement ignores the agency of local leaders and activists who might actually want outside intervention and help from other activists. It's cool because by some huge coincidence people use the same rhetoric that has been used against blacks organizing since the 60's but are certainly not concern trolls.
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Aug 13, 2014 17:35
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Neo Duckberg posted:A lot of people think St. Louis is like little Chicago or Detroit when it could not be further from that. Real annoying. Exactly. I've seen a few articles written by people in New York or Chicago analyzing it through their city's lens or through the lens of Birmingham, AL and neither is true. For starters, St. Louis was a huge hub of civil rights during the 50s and was regarded as model protesters BECAUSE there were no riots. If there are riots now, then it's either because things are worse than the 50s or there is a complete lack of civil rights leadership. If it's the latter, then I definitely believe that's because the leadership has been taken down on purpose. Probably by the same people who are spending this thread arguing about Al Sharpton instead of the horrible segregation that still goes on in STL.
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Aug 13, 2014 17:45
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anonumos posted:Wait, what? Self-government won't work because the town itself is somehow inherently irredeemable? Like, "Concentrating a minority creates a terrible neighborhood [because they're black and blacks are terrible] so why should they rule themselves?" That's what I got from your post. Self-government is great. Local governments are great. But what I'm saying is that Ferguson is in the state it is *because* the local governments have shat on it to allow better conditions in other parts of St Louis. So saying "We should only have local people here trying to make this an issue" isn't going to work because those same locals have already failed to make their case time and time again. In other words, if the local folks of Ferguson couldn't make their case before, what makes you think that the other local governments of St Louis will suddenly start caring now?
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Aug 13, 2014 17:45
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Fried Chicken posted:The best supporting evidence for the assertion "Al Sharpton is too polarizing, his presence will detract from the issue" is the fact that we've spent the past 3 pages going back and forth about Al Sharpton and had 1 post about the recent developments in Ferguson. Shut up about Al Sharpton. And if you replace Al Sharpton with literally anybody else you will only get the same result over and over again. It isn't Al Sharpton, it's the role of putting the spotlight on racial issues. Anyone who takes on that role will get the same attention until they're considered too "polarizing" to show up and shine the spotlight on issues.
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Aug 13, 2014 17:49
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 Pretty powerful cartoon about oppressive, over-militarized police and their relationship with citizen journalists, I must say.  It's actually a cartoon about Fallujah from 2004.
Rhesus Pieces fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Aug 13, 2014 |
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Aug 13, 2014 17:50
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People say that OBAMA is too polarizing on racial issues. There is literally no person that can speak about the systemic racial problems in this country that would not be immediately tarred with being a race baiter or whatever. The deal is that a large amount of people think there are no problems so anyone complaining must obviously be trying to pull a fast one or profit somehow and if everyone just shut up we wouldn't have any issues
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Aug 13, 2014 17:53
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Even if, for some reason, you wanted to defend the actions of Ferguson police, you have the problem that by policing standards they are handling things wrong and going with over the top militarism before there was cause for it http://www.citylab.com/crime/2014/08/the-siege-in-ferguson/375977/
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Aug 13, 2014 18:02
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Gawker is trying to get the name of the cop who shot the kid. Judging by the comments, people seem to be split on the ethics of this, I don't see the problem myself though. The law is the law and I am pretty sure by law they are supposed to disclose this guy's name.
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Aug 13, 2014 18:06
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Fried Chicken posted:Even if, for some reason, you wanted to defend the actions of Ferguson police, you have the problem that by policing standards they are handling things wrong and going with over the top militarism before there was cause for it quote:Federal Aviation Administration instituted a no-fly zone over Ferguson through Aug. 18, meaning that police helicopters can operate in the area, but media helicopters cannot. Someone should point out to these people that that this is officially the 2,599th "No Fly Zone" issued by the FAA in 2014. The online media reporting on this has essentially gone full Freep on that one particular total non-issue instead of anything else. It's bizarre.
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Aug 13, 2014 18:09
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Someone should point out to these people that that this is officially the 2,599th "No Fly Zone" issued by the FAA in 2014. The online media reporting on this has essentially gone full Freep on that one particular total non-issue instead of anything else. It's bizarre. Probably they are using it as an example of how over-the-top the response of the Fergeson police has been, along with the vehicles and equipment. Most people aren't familiar with police being able to declare no-fly zones in places they've already been hostile to the media. I know I wasn't, and it's not like I'm new to "gently caress the Police" threads.
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Aug 13, 2014 18:12
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Radish posted:People say that OBAMA is too polarizing on racial issues. There is literally no person that can speak about the systemic racial problems in this country that would not be immediately tarred with being a race baiter or whatever. The deal is that a large amount of people think there are no problems so anyone complaining must obviously be trying to pull a fast one or profit somehow and if everyone just shut up we wouldn't have any issues Dr. Arbitrary posted:Basically this: Ward Sutton is a god drat nation treasure.
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Aug 13, 2014 18:12
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The problem you have is that the police are given a monopoly on the use of violence in exchange for protecting and serving the community. If they are not protecting or serving the community, and they're protecting someone who's murdering members of that community, then they cannot reasonably be given a continued monopoly on force. Had they moved quickly on this from the beginning I think they could have defused a lot of this tension, but now the reason they're protecting the officer is getting pushed to the forefront, and it feels like this confrontation is something they *want*. They've got armored vehicles, assault rifles, tear gas, the police are *ready* for riots and they're prepared for them, the question is are they interested in provoking one to put all their toys to use?
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Aug 13, 2014 18:14
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bassguitarhero posted:The problem you have is that the police are given a monopoly on the use of violence in exchange for protecting and serving the community. If they are not protecting or serving the community, and they're protecting someone who's murdering members of that community, then they cannot reasonably be given a continued monopoly on force. Given the videos of police challenging protestors and egging them on, yelling to "bring it you loving animals" and claiming the recorded chant "no justice no peace" was people chanting "kill the police" as justification for bringing out dogs and armored vehicles, yeah I think there is a solid case to be made that the police do want this conflict.
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Aug 13, 2014 18:17
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Zeitgueist posted:Probably they are using it as an example of how over-the-top the response of the Fergeson police has been, along with the vehicles and equipment. Most people aren't familiar with police being able to declare no-fly zones in places they've already been hostile to the media. I know I wasn't, and it's not like I'm new to "gently caress the Police" threads. I can't remember if it was in this thread or the ACAB one but I pointed out earlier that this exact same thing happened during the Bundy Ranch shenanigans and was apparently ignored by everyone outside the Inforwars sphere.
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Aug 13, 2014 18:18
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Rent-A-Cop posted:The Ferguson Police didn't declare anything. The St Louis County Police requested from the FAA a 3nm x 3000' area in which they could operate their aircraft without having to worry about a bunch of media helicopters in the way and the FAA chose to comply with the request. Nobody is restricted from spending all day every day at 3001'. I said why they're focusing on it, not that it was right to focus on it.
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Aug 13, 2014 18:26
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Rent-A-Cop posted:The Ferguson Police didn't declare anything. The St Louis County Police requested from the FAA a 3nm x 3000' area in which they could operate their aircraft without having to worry about a bunch of media helicopters in the way and the FAA chose to comply with the request. Nobody is restricted from spending all day every day at 3001'. Also the Boston Marathon. At present, other areas with similar restrictions for law enforcement reasons include: Cuero TX and Corpus Christi TX. (There's also a shitload of them up in CA/OR/WA for fire fighting reasons so I might have missed one or two in there.). That's just current ones, not historical ones from earlier this year. But yes, it's definitely black helicopter time.
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Aug 13, 2014 18:29
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Neo Duckberg posted:A lot of people think St. Louis is like little Chicago or Detroit when it could not be further from that. Real annoying. Also more should probably be said about how completely retarded the city/county divide is and how much of the city is set up like their own little fiefdoms. It's a giant spaghetti mess and doesn't help in investigations either.
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Aug 13, 2014 18:30
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I'm surprised this hasn't been posted yet, Mychal Denzel Smith having to write the same article yet again:quote:The Death of Michael Brown and the Search for Justice in Black America
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Aug 13, 2014 18:31
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Stanos posted:Also more should probably be said about how completely retarded the city/county divide is and how much of the city is set up like their own little fiefdoms. It's a giant spaghetti mess and doesn't help in investigations either. Yes it is a mess of personal kingdoms. Nobody wants to come together and make poo poo like a single government for the county and the city, which would make more sense. We have the "most dangerous city in America," less than 10 miles from one of the most expensive zip codes in America.
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Aug 13, 2014 20:35
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anon got the recording from St Louis County Dispatch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zta9FyoA7TU e: gets interesting @9:40 dispatch finds out about shooting at 11:20 Leroy Diplowski fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Aug 13, 2014 |
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Aug 13, 2014 20:36
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Kitfox88 posted:Has this been proven real yet because if so hoo boy. I don't have any links, but I remember reading that she's just some random racist rear end in a top hat, not related to anyone involved.
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Aug 13, 2014 20:40
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 Someone explain to me how carefully aiming a rifle at a crowd of peaceful protesters as if you're a combat sniper is in any way necessary or justified. It's almost like the police don't see themselves as public servants but as combatants in a war where the people are the enemy. Like they're itching for a fight. 
Rhesus Pieces fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Aug 13, 2014 |
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Aug 13, 2014 20:48
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11'26" starts talking about officer involved shooting
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Aug 13, 2014 20:52
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quote:The United States of America is not for black people. We know this, and then we put it out of our minds, and then something happens to remind us. Saturday, in the St. Louis suburb of Ferguson, Mo., something like that happened: An unarmed 18-year-old black man was executed by police in broad daylight. http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/america-is-not-for-black-people-1620169913
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Aug 13, 2014 20:55
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streaming of Ferguson PD press conference http://www.ksdk.com/videos/news/local/2013/11/12/3144211/ this link has better audio http://fox2now.com/2014/08/13/live-updates-ferguson-police-press-conference-for-mike-brown-shooting/ Leroy Diplowski fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Aug 13, 2014 |
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Aug 13, 2014 21:01
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Rhesus Pieces posted:
The racial changes and transitions, which occured at the neighborhood level in America through the 60s and 70s, have left policing into the hands of individuals whose authority is granted through the perception of force, rather than through the strenth of personal networks. Needless to say, St. Louis is a city and a county that is in every way a southern culture in how it handles minority issues. It tries to sell itself as a northern city, in that money rather than heriditary is the deciding factor in power, yet it only hides this to visiters while emphasizing family to locals. I lived in St. Louis for a while, implemented programs and lobbied for policy changes which would improve collective efficacy at the neighborhood level, and will gladly go into more detail with specific policy failures and suggestions for corrections. I'll try and start writing up an effortpost if anyone's interested.
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Aug 13, 2014 21:04
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