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Kwyndig posted:Hell, fire is a central technology now. We could, with extreme difficulty, get by without it, but we'd have to overhaul basically our entire energy generation infrastructure as well as switching our entire method of transportation to muscle or electric power. So unless the bad guy is hiding a hydroelectric dam big enough to power all the Midlands along with a plan to wire up every town this is just nonsense. Yeah, it's worth remembering that even though nominally we used electricity for the vast majority of our home power, we generate that electricity mostly with fire. And power 99% of our cars with fire also. The 'no fire' thing is insane.
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Nov 8, 2014 13:57
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Esposito posted:Is it the Mud People who send all their most promising fighters for Richard to kill? I don't remember what the point of it was, except that it allows Goodkind to jump Richard straight to blademaster status and proclaim him the Car'a'carn, while awkwardly working in an Aiel-like people who are never mentioned again. Nah, that's the next book's racist stopover.
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Nov 8, 2014 14:30
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Plague of Hats posted:Nah, that's the next book's racist stopover. Is that the same book where some country in the midlands just builds a fake army just to betray them to their enemies, after which they get their carmic revenge when said enemies rape and enslave them? That was the dumbest war ever, they even had some sort of ultimate defensive weapon, but first lost them due to treachery, then the weapons simply get destroyed and are forgotten forever. I think I was livid after reading how the bells just turned to dust and the surviving soldiers just go "Welp! We've been betrayed! Let's throw our swords away and run away!" Or is that even later still?
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Nov 8, 2014 14:47
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I think that's the third one, which I recall being pretty boring since it was mostly wandering around and exposition to solve a really dumb "puzzle", as opposed to the more memorable books full of rape and the occasional magic pretend-infidelity period sex. (This doesn't necessarily mean there aren't at least a few rapes in there, but by then it's old hat and the rest of the book is so dumb.)But it's been a while, and even when I liked the series I never cared enough to keep it all straight. I remember the first book pretty well because I read it a lot (started over with each new sequel release), and the second book I thought was maybe the best of the books. Then there's the fourth book (Or fifth? Oh who loving cares.) with what I mentioned in spoilers, and everything else is a blur as the rapes and Marty Stuisms pile up. That Old Tree fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Nov 8, 2014 |
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Nov 8, 2014 15:11
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Skrewtape posted:Among all of the other nonsense in these books, this whole thing about outlawing fire is really standing out for me. Fire is absolutely central to the technology of the time period he's depicting, and outlawing it (assuming that's even possible) would collapse society. Does Goodkind ever address the impact of this ban? Does he just never depict people inside during the winter, or cooking food, or what? I'm just reading the whole thing as a chain of adolescent strawmen held together by a saliva-strand of narrative. If anything actually follows from anything else beyond 'Crouching rear end in a top hat, Hidden Penis is just the dreamiest, isn't he?' I will be really surprised.
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Nov 8, 2014 17:13
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Wasn't (book #3 spoiler) City Of Death Bells ruled over by Not Bill & Hillary Clinton?
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Nov 8, 2014 18:58
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PJOmega posted:Wasn't (book #3 spoiler) City Of Death Bells ruled over by Not Bill & Hillary Clinton? I never thought of it in that way before, but I'm not sure if that's what he was going for. If so, 
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Nov 8, 2014 20:44
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just in case nobody has read it Terry Goodkind did an AMA on reddit a few years ago and it's pretty spectacular http://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/x3e7l/i_am_the_novelist_terry_goodkind_ama/
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Nov 8, 2014 21:37
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Paragon8 posted:just in case nobody has read it Terry Goodkind did an AMA on reddit a few years ago and it's pretty spectacular "The rights for the series are now in the hands of Disney and it's up to them to create something else with it. That said, THE OMEN MACHINE and THE FIRST CONFESSOR are a different entity..." This whole thing is hilarity. Of course his favorite book is Ayn Rand's Anthem. "First, you are an amazing author. As someone with autism, your books have helped me develop my communication, writing and social skills. Thank you." Poor, poor kid. PJOmega fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Nov 8, 2014 |
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Nov 8, 2014 21:45
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PJOmega posted:"The rights for the series are now in the hands of Disney and it's up to them to create something else with it. That said, THE OMEN MACHINE and THE FIRST CONFESSOR are a different entity..." We all know Disney is crazy about rape.
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Nov 8, 2014 21:48
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GreyPowerVan posted:I never thought of it in that way before, but I'm not sure if that's what he was going for. Apparently dead on. http://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/x3e7l/i_am_the_novelist_terry_goodkind_ama/c5jfj4y
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Nov 8, 2014 22:00
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PJOmega posted:Apparently dead on. He's even worse at writing than I thought then.
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Nov 8, 2014 22:02
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GreyPowerVan posted:He's even worse at writing than I thought then. To be fair unless we ever find the mythical Shovel Of Truth (TM) we'll never truly grasp how bad it is.
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Nov 8, 2014 22:08
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GreyPowerVan posted:We all know Disney is crazy about rape. Not in any way a lie, though: Legend of the Seeker was Disney's (well, ABC's) first ever attempt to make syndicated TV. Let that sink in.
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Nov 8, 2014 22:40
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PJOmega posted:"The rights for the series are now in the hands of Disney and it's up to them to create something else with it. That said, THE OMEN MACHINE and THE FIRST CONFESSOR are a different entity..." I love how first he lists several of his own books before he realized they meant someone else's books.
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Nov 9, 2014 02:05
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He calls WFR an "epic fantasy adventure." Is he finally over pretending he doesn't write genre stuff?
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Nov 9, 2014 03:58
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PeterWeller posted:He calls WFR an "epic fantasy adventure." Is he finally over pretending he doesn't write genre stuff? Probably, given that his attempt to write modern fantasy (his first real genre shift ever) cratered. He then immediately ran back to Rich and K.
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Nov 9, 2014 05:00
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Well, The Law of Nines, his attempt at non-Sword of Truth urban fantasy, (spoilers for the end of the book) is completely tied into the Sword of Truth books anyways. Not that it wasn't the most overly telegraphed, paint by numbers, "crazy person gets put into the insane asylum run by the bad guys, because it turns out he's not crazy at all!" load of crap genre fiction I'd read in quite some time. It was seriously like Goodkind had a checklist that he was ticking off as he wrote the thing, only this time the protagonist was an even more transparent author stand in -- once you know Goodkind used to be a wildlife and landscape artist, there's a certain amusement to be had in reading the book as if it were autobiographical.
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Nov 10, 2014 05:36
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Oh my god, I just found this thread and it's everything I hoped for. I am losing my poo poo waiting for the greatest moment in book 1 (or any of the books, really), literally John Galt the Peasant. In fact it's maybe the best moment in any book, period, now that I think about it.
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Nov 10, 2014 06:12
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Spoilers Below posted:Well, The Law of Nines, his attempt at non-Sword of Truth urban fantasy, (spoilers for the end of the book) is completely tied into the Sword of Truth books anyways. Not that it wasn't the most overly telegraphed, paint by numbers, "crazy person gets put into the insane asylum run by the bad guys, because it turns out he's not crazy at all!" load of crap genre fiction I'd read in quite some time. It was seriously like Goodkind had a checklist that he was ticking off as he wrote the thing, only this time the protagonist was an even more transparent author stand in -- once you know Goodkind used to be a wildlife and landscape artist, there's a certain amusement to be had in reading the book as if it were autobiographical. Some authors miss the point of "write what you know" completely.
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Nov 10, 2014 08:36
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PJOmega posted:Wasn't (book #3 spoiler) City Of Death Bells ruled over by Not Bill & Hillary Clinton? Oh my god Death Bells are nuclear weapons, how could I not see that?
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Nov 10, 2014 12:44
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Libluini posted:Oh my god Death Bells are nuclear weapons, how could I not see that? Were they? I thought they were a 2-way wall, keeping them out but us in.
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Nov 10, 2014 19:20
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PJOmega posted:Were they? I thought they were a 2-way wall, keeping them out but us in. "Us"? We aren't living in Goodkind's novel, thankfully.  But on your question, I have no idea if that's what Goodkind intended, it's just too good of a comparison to pass on: Evil communists infiltrate Clinton-Land to take over the nuclear bells. If I remember right, the bells send out some kind of magical soundwave to utterly gently caress up every invader, so no, they didn't keep their own side imprisoned. As long as the bells aren't killing everything right now, you can just walk past the boundary. Like how a nuclear bomb is pretty much harmless as long as it doesn't explode, see?
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Nov 10, 2014 19:38
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Libluini posted:"Us"? We aren't living in Goodkind's novel, thankfully. Truly thankfully, I've had nightmares of waking up in FotF's communidystopia. What I meant is the bells were nominally to keep intruders outside. However, once they were infiltrated the bells effectively locked them inside as leaving risked them being activated while in the bell radius. Admittedly, it has nuke analogies. It's been a long time since I read any of these POSs but given Goodkind's ideological bent and caricatures of Bill & Hillary I'd guess it wasn't about the nukes, but rather entrusting the government to protect you and therefore turning into a prison state. I'm likely giving goodkind way too much credit.
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Nov 11, 2014 00:34
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As hilariously awful all things bell-nuke and FotF are, we are still in the first part of book one! Come on people, there is plenty of this poo poo to go around without jumping ahead. My favorite bit about the mud people roof thing was even in the book they state that it is perfectly possible to make thatched roofs that don't leak. While I might forgive Dick for not knowing how to properly thatch a roof- how the hell did the mud people, who only have thatch to work with, not learn how to loving thatch a roof before a white man came and showed them A Better Way(tm)? TheCenturion posted:Not going to quote your whole Mud People post, but it's a perfect example of the fact that half the 'drama' in these books come from the characters purposefully withholding information from each other for the sake of drama. Also, this is from a few pages ago, but it really can't be over stated. Dumb poo poo happens in these books because people won't just explain poo poo to each other.
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Nov 11, 2014 01:24
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PJOmega posted:Truly thankfully, I've had nightmares of waking up in FotF's communidystopia. Well, yeah it's like communists taking over nuclear silos and targeting Clintonlands cities instead of evil foreign armies. That was the interpretation which immediately sprang into my head after the first mentioning of the Hillary States of Clinton-comparison. Back when I was reading the books, this of course went completely over my head. I just was angry because a neat idea (defensive magical killer-bells) was introduced and immediately discarded at the end of the book. But we will all see many, many cases of this cropping up in the books. Hopefully our OP will get to that before we start discussing every single one of those cases. I think the very first book already has several of them.
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Nov 11, 2014 01:29
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TheSmilingJackal posted:As hilariously awful all things bell-nuke and FotF are, we are still in the first part of book one! Come on people, there is plenty of this poo poo to go around without jumping ahead. "Oh, but if I tell [Richard/Kahlahn] this extremely terrible but actually quite innocuous secret, they won't love me any more! Better to hope it doesn't come up at the worst possible time!"
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Nov 11, 2014 01:30
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TheSmilingJackal posted:Also, this is from a few pages ago, but it really can't be over stated. Dumb poo poo happens in these books because people won't just explain poo poo to each other. I read these books REALLY uncritically but this got to even me. I remember basically shouting at the characters to just open their goddamn mouths and say something useful.
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Nov 11, 2014 01:42
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SavageMessiah posted:I read these books REALLY uncritically but this got to even me. I remember basically shouting at the characters to just open their goddamn mouths and say something useful. I have this problem with a lot of forms of media. Not talking about something is a great way to add drama, but when it starts being the only way you know to create drama and you use it every time, you are a bad writer. There is so much from these books that I don't remember, but it is great when somebody says something and it triggers me. I can't wait to get to those later books after we finish this one.
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Nov 11, 2014 01:52
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Strong Mouse posted:I have this problem with a lot of forms of media. Not talking about something is a great way to add drama, but when it starts being the only way you know to create drama and you use it every time, you are a bad writer. It works if the character withholding information has a motivation for doing so. Otherwise, it's just laziness. Edit: For example, I just re-read Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy. Almost all of the drama in that book arises directly from the characters withholding critical information from each other, but the tension is believable and effective because everyone has a reason to do so. They're all navigating a maze of conflicting loyalties, and if you guess wrong about someone else, the stakes are literally life and death. That's good drama and good writing. Comrade Gorbash fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Nov 11, 2014 |
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Nov 11, 2014 02:22
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Libluini posted:Hopefully our OP will get to that before we start discussing every single one of those cases. I think the very first book already has several of them. I was too busy writing parodies of Nabokov on the job. I'll update after a shower.
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Nov 11, 2014 02:30
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thespaceinvader posted:He forgets it exists by about halfway through the book and then Darth Marx is dead and Richard is king of the entire north half of the world at the end of the first book so presumably he rescinds it I guess You know the fire ban never really bothered me. It always came across as something Darth Marx had cooked up to repress the people with. He doesn't really care at all, he just uses it as an excuse to send out search parties for the boxes/kill potential problems. I guess it just always seemed so stupid on its face, I assumed it was supposed to be stupid. This last chapter is a micro-chasm of what is wrong with all of the books. Which is hilarious to me, because it was one I actually enjoyed when I first read it.
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Nov 12, 2014 22:08
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DARKSEID DICK PICS posted:I was too busy writing parodies of Nabokov on the job. I'll update after a shower. That's one hell of a long shower.
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Nov 14, 2014 00:34
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Dr.Magnificent posted:You know the fire ban never really bothered me. It always came across as something Darth Marx had cooked up to repress the people with. He doesn't really care at all, he just uses it as an excuse to send out search parties for the boxes/kill potential problems. I guess it just always seemed so stupid on its face, I assumed it was supposed to be stupid. It is supposed to be stupid, but it's supposed to be stupid in the way that a completely insane 2nd amendment advocate would think that firearms bans are stupid, because apparently guns are equally essential to our civilization as combustion.
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Nov 14, 2014 01:45
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Look man if you thought the metaphor of banning fire was strained, imagine if the book had them banning having arms. Goodkind probably considered it. Fake edit: the firefighters could even be called men-at-arms! 
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Nov 14, 2014 06:58
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Firefighters works better because objectivists also hate actual firefighters.
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Nov 14, 2014 07:15
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Why, because they're civil servants?
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Nov 14, 2014 07:41
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Why the gently caress should I pay to have your house put out? Clearly, if you couldn't afford to pay the fire fighters yourself, you deserve to have your belongings lost. The free market will ensure that those who deserve protection will receive it. After all, it's not like fires spread, right?
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Nov 14, 2014 07:49
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:Firefighters works better because objectivists also hate actual firefighters. It's funny because Crassus, one of the original contenders for the rulership of the Roman Empire (well, Republic at the time, but that was about to change), became the richest man in Rome partly by organizing private firefighting teams to essentially extort people about putting out fires. He was kind of an rear end in a top hat. He was later murdered by Parthians, no-one really missed him.
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Nov 14, 2014 08:02
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Night10194 posted:It's funny because Crassus, one of the original contenders for the rulership of the Roman Empire (well, Republic at the time, but that was about to change), became the richest man in Rome partly by organizing private firefighting teams to essentially extort people about putting out fires. He was kind of an rear end in a top hat. It was worse - Crassus' slaves would only put out the fire if the owner of the flaming building agreed to sell it to Crassus for a song. The deal was terrible for the original owner, but was better than having nothing. He'd have the building rebuilt and refurbished, then start renting it out.
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Nov 14, 2014 14:35
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