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Morter posted:That's awesome but I missed the part that has to do with the pope. Pope Francis put his official support for bill 
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Feb 8, 2015 04:28
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:Pope Francis put his official support for bill  What the gently caress Francis, I thought you were cool? What happened to all the "love and tolerance" towards gay people? I mean yeah I get that Francis/the Catholic Church aren't exactly in favor of gay marriage, but I thought that he was trying to get the leaders of the Church to stop being judgmental assholes and focus more on that whole "love, compassion, charity, and helping your fellow humans" thing that some dude named Jesus preached about. Why the gently caress would he throw all that goodwill way? And especially on something that had a serious risk of backfiring on him like this? fade5 fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Feb 8, 2015 |
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Feb 8, 2015 04:41
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The Catholic Pope is a hardline Catholic? Oh my stars and garters...
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Feb 8, 2015 04:49
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Feb 8, 2015 04:52
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If they want to get married though, I am totally the guy to judge. gently caress them.
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Feb 8, 2015 04:54
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This law would have not only banned gay marriage but also adoption
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Feb 8, 2015 05:32
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fade5 posted:
Ok yeah I can understand having to be the "company guy" for the Vatican or what the gently caress ever, but to hell with all of this. +1 on the "gently caress Pope Francis" train.
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Feb 8, 2015 05:34
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fade5 posted:
Pope Francis isn't all that different from his predecessors doctrinally speaking. He's just emphasizing different aspects that are more palatable.
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Feb 8, 2015 15:52
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:This law would have not only banned gay marriage but also adoption Yeah okay, gently caress him for completely supporting this then.
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Feb 8, 2015 17:17
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Also the option for parents to opt out of sex education for their kids, I think. Just an all around great idea.
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Feb 8, 2015 17:41
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Not sure why you guys think "I won't judge gay people's actions" is anywhere close to the same thing as "I and the Church now support gay rights or widespread, global acceptance." He's still not a fan of gay marriage or homosexuality in general. That he'd support a law against such things isn't shocking in the slightest. Especially since it's still the church's position.
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Feb 8, 2015 19:22
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We're not shocked, we're irked. I don't know why you think we're shocked. Having people in a marriage equality thread saying "gently caress you" to someone who's gaining fame for misleading others into thinking he's an accepting, kind soul, despite the influence he has on making others do the opposite (with things like that Slovak law) isn't surprising in the least.
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Feb 8, 2015 19:44
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Video from Alabama rally https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQgRUo2eZw8
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Feb 8, 2015 21:44
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I don't really get the Catholic opposition to gay adoption. Like yeah okay, even if you did believe that stable gay parents are somehow less fit or the children turn out less well than children in a stable two-parent household (against all evidence, of course but still even granting it for the sake of argument), it's not like there's a shortage of unwanted children and gay people are stealing them from loving straight people. Surely it's better for a kid to be adopted into a less-than-ideal situation than to stay an orphan. Also of course, the opposition to letting a gay person adopt their partner's child is just senselessly cruel. It doesn't reduce the number of children raised by gay couples (obviously), but it can and does result in children being taken away from their primary caregiver if the biological parent dies.
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Feb 9, 2015 01:56
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If they're adopted by gay couples then kids will grow up
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Feb 9, 2015 02:33
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VitalSigns posted:I don't really get the Catholic opposition to gay adoption. They're as much interested in actually helping children as Mother Teresa was in helping the sick. They want to moralize, and they want to use their religion as a weapon against undesirables. This has been a constant throughout history. The specific issues at hand have changed, but the overall thinking really hasn't. They view a society condoning abortion and birth control, with more abortions/dead mothers, as being a greater sin than living in a society that doesn't even if that leads to more abortions/dead women. Similarly they view living in a society that does not condone being gay as a greater blessing even if that leads to more suicides/broken families/etc. They do not take these positions from a utilitarian point of view. These are idealistic statements about the way they think the world ought to be. They do not care if people are happy if those happy people are living in a way they believe is sinful. They perceive the socially-induced negative impacts on gay people and gay families as righteous punishment for sinners. ErIog fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Feb 9, 2015 |
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Feb 9, 2015 02:43
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VitalSigns posted:I don't really get the Catholic opposition to gay adoption. Well, blessing gay adoption more or less brings with it acknowledgement that a gay partnership is functional and healthy, and that a gay couple is perfectly capable of raising children just like a heterosexual couple. You can't really make an argument against gay marriage while simultaneously saying it's okay for gays to adopt. You also have to remember that a lot of these people think that homosexuality is a choice that those dastardly homos are trying to spread like some kind of cult, and probably assume gay parents will "teach" their adopted children to be gay as well. In other words, it's the same blend of hysteria and theological doctrine that causes them to oppose gay marriage. fade5 posted:
Pope Francis has gotten a lot of cred for taking a fairly liberal stance as far as Catholicism goes - particularly considering his position - , but he's still backed a number of hardline conservative issues within the church including the ban on teaching & using birth control, the ban on gay marriage, and affirming that women cannot be members of the clergy. Also, his earlier remarks about not judging homosexuals was exaggerated like crazy. "It's okay for gays to strive to be good Catholics" does not equal "I support marriage and equal rights for gays."
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Feb 9, 2015 03:05
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Yeah basically Francis was taking the doctrine that the Church has had for a while, "It's not a sin to be gay, as long as you never act on those feelings and live a life of celibacy so that you don't sin." He did say that helping the poor is more important than other issues, but that doesn't mean he doesn't think things like gay marriage are unimportant issues. On top of that, he wasn't out there constantly talking about "the gay menace" like Huckabee and people from NOM and other organizations are. He put out support for the bill, but he didn't devote all his time to talking about how it needed to pass or the like (at least not as far as I know). It's a bit better than the US fundamentalists who claim that being gay is a sin by itself, even if you don't ever act on it, so it's easy to see why it was exaggerated into "Francis completely supports gay people!"
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Feb 9, 2015 03:19
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Sydin posted:Pope Francis has gotten a lot of cred for taking a fairly liberal stance as far as Catholicism goes - particularly considering his position - , but he's still backed a number of hardline conservative issues within the church including the ban on teaching & using birth control, the ban on gay marriage, and affirming that women cannot be members of the clergy. Also, his earlier remarks about not judging homosexuals was exaggerated like crazy. "It's okay for gays to strive to be good Catholics" does not equal "I support marriage and equal rights for gays." There was another one last year where he said it was OK for priests to be openly gay, and that he had no right to judge a priest negatively for being gay, and not a single news source that I saw pointed out the clear context that the Catholic Church's position on being gay is that being gay is not a choice (and therefore is not a sin) but that having gay sex is (and is sinful, just like all non-procreative sex), and that the reason Francis was saying he had no right to judge a gay priest was because priests are celibate, and so a gay priest is no different from a straight priest, because they aren't commiting the sinful act of having gay sex. Instead it was all "Pope says he can't judge gays" and "Pope says gays are the same as straight people". It was clear very early on in Francis' term as pope that any time he was in the news, what the pope said and what the article quoting him said he said were often completely different.
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Feb 9, 2015 03:33
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Twelve by Pies posted:He did say that helping the poor is more important than other issues, but that doesn't mean he doesn't think things like gay marriage are unimportant issues. It's a goddamned shame that it's such a hurdle to realize that some of the poor being helped by allowing gays to adopt are those kids that are up for adoption. 
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Feb 9, 2015 04:16
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Every time I miss the solemnity of mass, the majesty of the church of rome, the connection to the community I felt as being part of the community of believers, the rich artistic history...I remember how weird catholicism is about sex.
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Feb 9, 2015 04:25
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Twelve by Pies posted:If they're adopted by gay couples then kids will grow up It sounds awfully Manichean to suggest that Satan can win and not God...you heretic  Sydin posted:Well, blessing gay adoption more or less brings with it acknowledgement that a gay partnership is functional and healthy, and that a gay couple is perfectly capable of raising children just like a heterosexual couple. You can't really make an argument against gay marriage while simultaneously saying it's okay for gays to adopt. You also have to remember that a lot of these people think that homosexuality is a choice that those dastardly homos are trying to spread like some kind of cult, and probably assume gay parents will "teach" their adopted children to be gay as well. I know that consistency isn't exactly the strong point of people who believe this, but it would seem like on these grounds you'd have to oppose the legality of Jewish or Muslim adoption as well, because those parents are obviously going to raise their child to be Jewish or Muslim (way more successful than the attempt to raise your child to be straight or gay, might I add) and then they're at a critical risk that any sins they commit won't be forgiven since their children aren't coming to God through Christ. Anyway, I'm obviously not asking you to defend it but the logic that children are better off unwanted than being raised by a generous and loving couple of sinners (uh aren't we all sinners) or even that they're less likely to be saved if they're raised by a gay Christian couple than a straight Hindu couple seems really bizarre and antithetical to Christian doctrine. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Feb 9, 2015 |
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Feb 9, 2015 04:35
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Full Battle Rattle posted:Every time I miss the solemnity of mass, the majesty of the church of rome, the connection to the community I felt as being part of the community of believers, the rich artistic history...I remember how weird catholicism is about sex. What about Orthodox churches? I don't hear nearly as much about everyday life issues with them, for better or worse.
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Feb 9, 2015 04:52
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Y'all, what the gently caress. (link)quote:MONTGOMERY, Ala. — Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore late Sunday ordered all probate judges and employees in Alabama to follow existing state law and not issue or recognize same-sex marriages.
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Feb 9, 2015 05:41
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discoukulele posted:Y'all, what the gently caress. (link) Everyone's looking for their last stand in the schoolhouse door without realizing that whole thing was basically staged.
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Feb 9, 2015 05:50
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Fuschia tude posted:What about Orthodox churches? I don't hear nearly as much about everyday life issues with them, for better or worse. Are you joking or have you not paid attention to Russia at all for the past 4ish years
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Feb 9, 2015 05:59
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discoukulele posted:Y'all, what the gently caress. (link) Yeah its about to loving go down. -George Wallace
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Feb 9, 2015 06:24
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discoukulele posted:Y'all, what the gently caress. (link) Reminder that if it's morning and the Supreme Court still has done nothing to continue the stay, technically by doing this they're disobeying the Supreme Court of the entire country.
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Feb 9, 2015 06:27
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discoukulele posted:Y'all, what the gently caress. (link) Moore was thrown out once before for ignoring court orders, but Alabama is one of the many states that elect judges and, well, this
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Feb 9, 2015 06:30
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Chris James 2 posted:Reminder that if it's morning and the Supreme Court still has done nothing to continue the stay, technically by doing this they're disobeying the Supreme Court of the entire country. What would be the punishment for doing so?
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Feb 9, 2015 06:32
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Ralepozozaxe posted:What would be the punishment for doing so? Maybe thrown off the bench again* *until next election when the overwhelming number of shitheads in Alabama elect him back...again
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Feb 9, 2015 07:34
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Fuschia tude posted:What about Orthodox churches? I don't hear nearly as much about everyday life issues with them, for better or worse. The Orthodox church is one of the reasons why Russia is such a dusgusting backwards shithole. Source: I live here and I get to listen to those bloated old schizophrenics screech about GAWD and MORALITY and TRADITIONS on tv.
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Feb 9, 2015 07:36
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hangedman1984 posted:Maybe thrown off the bench again*
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Feb 9, 2015 07:38
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Ralepozozaxe posted:What would be the punishment for doing so? The same thing that happens to any employee that refuses to do their job. First they get yelled at by their boss (in this case the Alabama state government or, if they don't feel like yelling, the federal government) to do their drat job, and if they still refuse then they're fired and replaced by somebody who will do the job. As mentioned above, Moore has a history of this poo poo anyway, so I can't imagine he's expecting any less than what happened last time.
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Feb 9, 2015 07:58
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On one hand, I don't like to see anything going down that would feed into these idiots' persecution complex. OTOH, the idea of the National Guard getting called in to marry the gays is pretty goddamn funny.
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Feb 9, 2015 08:12
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Roy Moore takes 85 cents for every dollar donated to his Foundation for Moral Law as salary so he won't be hurting financially. It dwarfs his day job.
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Feb 9, 2015 08:23
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UltimoDragonQuest posted:He won with 52% of the vote. His opposition candidate wasn't really into the idea of running. He put out like one commercial? Wanna know something funny? The reason he ran was that the democratic candidate got disqualified after several insane rants against gays and lesbians.
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Feb 9, 2015 08:40
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LLJKSiLk posted:Roy Moore takes 85 cents for every dollar donated to his Foundation for Moral Law as salary so he won't be hurting financially. It dwarfs his day job. It's kinda amazing how blatant they are about fleecing those morons.
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Feb 9, 2015 08:54
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Man, a lot of people in Alabama are being exposed as assholes right now. A lot of our probate judges are refusing to marry same-sex couples or something stupid, pretty sure that's going to cause problems for them.
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Feb 9, 2015 09:03
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I appreciate the rationalization for refusing to do their job, and this hasn't been limited to Alabama, is that they don't want to introduce confusion and chaos into the system, despite the fact the most effective way to do just that is to refuse to do their job.
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Feb 9, 2015 10:09
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