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Code Jockey posted:Kanji is so great. Persona 5 looks even more stylish than 3 from what I've seen.
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Feb 20, 2015 11:34
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Some Numbers posted:Heroes. Oh. Code Jockey posted:Persona 3 was just overflowing with style. I don't know how better to express that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RKF6gqCXiM RareAcumen fucked around with this message at 11:38 on Feb 20, 2015 |
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Feb 20, 2015 11:36
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Tunicate posted:Mother Brain wasn't intending to kill humanity from the start, though. Her entire point was 'welp, humanity's hosed, at least I can save a ton of other planets from the same fate'. I never believed Mother Brain about that. I always took it as a lame justification for annihilating humanity. Besides, I don't see how it even makes sense if true. As for Robo, it's possible (probably likely) that humans were in that dome post Lavos. They either died afterward or were wiped out by robots. Could be Robo was one of those robots sent to kill them. Pure speculation, of course, but there's enough left unexplained surrounding Robo, Mother Brain, etc that there's a lot of room to work with.
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Feb 20, 2015 12:00
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R-66Y 
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Feb 20, 2015 13:02
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Silegna posted:The plot of Chrono Trigger DOES bring up an interesting question. If you found out about a preventable apocalypse and had the means to stop it, would you? only if I had a time machine NikkolasKing posted:Maybe I'm jaded and cynical but I think a personal motivation is the only real type of motivation. It's why Magus was the best character. He was the only one with a legitimate (to me) reason to constantly pursue and fight Lavos. I mean, Marle's character is also setup as someone who is craving to DO something in her life or to be something more than a figure head princess. I always felt like that was why she was so insistent that things had to be done to save the world, it was kind of important to her in figuring out who she was, but also kind of a romanticized "I get to do something important!". That said it's still a SNES RPG so it's not THAT deep or anything. Crono and Lucca are just kinda like "sure, we got nothin' else to do on a Sunday"
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Feb 20, 2015 14:50
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Isn't "this world we like will get loving ruined by a hedgehog" good motivation? It's kept Robotnik going.
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Feb 20, 2015 15:00
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Isn't there a But Thou Must dialogue option when you see the first video of Lavos where you can have Crono say no to saving the world?
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Feb 20, 2015 16:32
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Great Joe posted:R-66Y R66-Y
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Feb 20, 2015 17:24
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Gus Hobbleton posted:R66-Y Prometheus
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Feb 20, 2015 18:39
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Man, when I first heard this song I was like...what, then I was like this is an awesome fight track.
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Feb 20, 2015 19:03
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Pierzak posted:On the one hand, you'd save mankind. On the other hand, you'd save mankind. Hard choice. It's not so much a "should you do it" so much as "when should you do it." If you kill off Lavos in the earliest time period possible you actually gently caress over humanity, in that you cause it to never exist. Lavos was manipulating evolution, and getting rid of that gives you an Earth filled with dinosaurs and apes.
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Feb 21, 2015 19:17
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GilliamYaeger posted:Persona 5 looks even more stylish than 3 from what I've seen. Those shop interfaces from the trailer were perhaps the coolest shop interfaces I've ever seen. Also the HP and SP stats that the characters gesture at when it's their turn were really good.
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Feb 21, 2015 19:30
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Jueg01 posted:It's not so much a "should you do it" so much as "when should you do it."
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Feb 21, 2015 19:38
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Jueg01 posted:It's not so much a "should you do it" so much as "when should you do it." That's not quite right. Lavos doesn't crash into the planet until after you have people at least as advanced as Ayla, who are clearly not "apes" despite what the Reptites call them. The first time you can even kill Lavos is in 12,000 BC, at which point people are already as advanced as in Zeal (which don't seem any different from "modern" humans. The whole "Lavos was manipulating evolution" thing never gets very well explained, and it's not at all clear how much impact, if any, he really had on the development of the planet's species.
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Feb 21, 2015 19:50
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I never understood CT Humanity. I mean, they've been around for 65 million years? I used to think Ayla was that whole Missing Link thing since she seemed part-animal with the tail and running on all fours. But apparently the tail is fake so.... Then again, I don't know if humans evolved from animals with tails. Point is, even if the entire human race got a reset button in 12,000 BC, they were around for millions of years.I don't think the writers understand time very well. Also Chrono Cross does go into more detail on how Lavos manipulated evolution and all that.
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Feb 21, 2015 20:09
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NikkolasKing posted:I never understood CT Humanity. I mean, they've been around for 65 million years? I used to think Ayla was that whole Missing Link thing since she seemed part-animal with the tail and running on all fours. But apparently the tail is fake so.... Then again, I don't know if humans evolved from animals with tails. The vast majority of mammals have tails, including non-ape primates, so almost certainly. Although I couldn't tell you how far back tails were lost. quote:Point is, even if the entire human race got a reset button in 12,000 BC, they were around for millions of years.I don't think the writers understand time very well. For a given definition of detail of course.
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Feb 21, 2015 20:21
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We still have a vestigal tail remnant, actually. At the very end of your spine, opposite the pelvis, there's a big lump of bone that we assume used to be the base of a tail.
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Feb 21, 2015 20:27
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On the other hand there's only like one black dude in Chrono Trigger, and the first humans certainly weren't white and blonde in actual history.
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Feb 21, 2015 20:49
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chrono trigger is a cartoon It has cartoon heros and cartoon cavement fighting cartoon dinosaur men in cartoon history periods, everything is colorful and somewhat silly but pretty. There's exceptions like the lavos evolution thing, Lucas's mom sideplot, etc, but they are kind of the exception imo. If you're worried about evolution in a jrpg you're being kind of silly, more so with chrono trigger.
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Feb 21, 2015 20:58
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I think it's largely that the little rat-things our ancestors actually were when The Scaly (Feathered?) Man was keeping them down wouldn't have made for the most relatable characters or party members (no offense to Freya from FF9). Though Frog is a frog and Robo is a robot, so what do I know? But yeah, it's just sort of cartoon versions of all the different mythic "beats" of human history, like the KT Impact, lost Atlantis-esque civilizations, sword & sorcery Middle Ages, etc. They had the first one happen 65 million years ago because everyone knows that's when it happened, and put cavemen in it so they could hit the caveman beat. I'm more just left wondering what was up with Nu. Frogisis fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Feb 21, 2015 |
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Feb 21, 2015 21:06
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Frogisis posted:I'm more just left wondering what was up with Nu. All things begin and end with Nu. This is my belief, at least for now.
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Feb 21, 2015 21:21
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I heard it all began when humanity's ancestors picked up a strange red rock. In time, love and hate were born. Only time will see how it all ends. Though I guess how it ends would be Nu, wouldn't it? Nu is one of my favorite things in Chrono Trigger because he's so mysterious and apparently powerful but he's never explained, and that's fine because it's so peripheral to the rest of the story, but the fact that there are tons of them hanging around Zeal only makes me more curious. He adds so much to the atmosphere and mood of the game. During that campfire conversation scene, when I was a kid I thought maybe Nu was the "entity" they were referring to.
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Feb 21, 2015 21:34
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V. Illych L. posted:We still have a vestigal tail remnant, actually. At the very end of your spine, opposite the pelvis, there's a big lump of bone that we assume used to be the base of a tail. That's where the progenitors mounted you to the fuel system actually 
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Feb 21, 2015 23:23
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Frogisis posted:I heard it all began when humanity's ancestors picked up a strange red rock. In time, love and hate were born. Only time will see how it all ends. Though I guess how it ends would be Nu, wouldn't it? In the future he becomes a beach bum, and is entirely worthless and uninteresting. 
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Feb 21, 2015 23:29
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V. Illych L. posted:We still have a vestigal tail remnant, actually. At the very end of your spine, opposite the pelvis, there's a big lump of bone that we assume used to be the base of a tail. We still have the genes for tails and there are cases where a human infant is born with a small tail. They're very very rare, but they do happen.
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Feb 21, 2015 23:59
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Schwartzcough posted:That's not quite right. Lavos doesn't crash into the planet until after you have people at least as advanced as Ayla, who are clearly not "apes" despite what the Reptites call them. The first time you can even kill Lavos is in 12,000 BC, at which point people are already as advanced as in Zeal (which don't seem any different from "modern" humans. The whole "Lavos was manipulating evolution" thing never gets very well explained, and it's not at all clear how much impact, if any, he really had on the development of the planet's species. It's also dependent on which boss fights you have(n't) done. Apparently the ending I'm thinking of is the one where there are no humans but instead lizardmen, which occurs when you beat Lavos after fighting Magus but before Azala. I don't know what I was thinking when I said apes, though. In regards to Lavos, I believe they handwaved it as "he manipulates evolution so that he can absorb the best genetics and pass them on to his offspring." I"m just playing it safe with the spoilers, but is it agreed that we need them for a decade-plus-old game?
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Feb 22, 2015 00:56
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counterfeitsaint posted:In the future he becomes a beach bum, and is entirely worthless and uninteresting. Maybe that's a side effect of having Belthesar's brain uploaded into him. Guru just wanted to chill out
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Feb 22, 2015 01:00
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Jueg01 posted:It's also dependent on which boss fights you have(n't) done. Apparently the ending I'm thinking of is the one where there are no humans but instead lizardmen, which occurs when you beat Lavos after fighting Magus but before Azala. I don't know what I was thinking when I said apes, though. In regards to Lavos, I believe they handwaved it as "he manipulates evolution so that he can absorb the best genetics and pass them on to his offspring." That manipulating evolution thing was just made up by poor translation of CT - it's not in the original.
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Feb 22, 2015 01:04
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It's in the DS version though. That's the one I played.
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Feb 22, 2015 01:50
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NikkolasKing posted:It's in the DS version though. That's the one I played. https://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Translation_Differences.html#Magus_Evolution_Statement
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Feb 22, 2015 02:03
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Holy cow that image's aspect ratio looks way off.
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Feb 22, 2015 02:14
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Tunicate posted:https://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Translation_Differences.html#Magus_Evolution_Statement quote:It's slept underground and kept on making the evolution of all life on this planet its own since ancient eras......? So instead of explicitly saying lavos controlled evolution, it ambiguously says it. Cool! That's far from a debunking of any kind. And that's even taking the validity of one particular translation from Japanese over another.
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Feb 22, 2015 03:08
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No, instead of saying Lavos guided the evolution of life on the planet, it says that Lavos watched the evolution of life on the planet, and used it to guide his own evolution.
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Feb 22, 2015 04:00
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Well there's also the thing about Lavos apparently intentionally killing the Reptiles. Azala says something to that effect. It wanted humans.
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Feb 22, 2015 04:37
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NikkolasKing posted:Well there's also the thing about Lavos apparently intentionally killing the Reptiles. Azala says something to that effect. It wanted humans.
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Feb 22, 2015 04:41
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Captain Bravo posted:No, instead of saying Lavos guided the evolution of life on the planet, it says that Lavos watched the evolution of life on the planet, and used it to guide his own evolution. I get that you want to read it that way, but that's just, like, your opinion, man. I'd go so far as to say that your reading doesn't even make a lot of sense compared to the reading where Lavos is controlling human evolution.
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Feb 22, 2015 04:42
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Prop Wash posted:I get that you want to read it that way, but that's just, like, your opinion, man. I'd go so far as to say that your reading doesn't even make a lot of sense compared to the reading where Lavos is controlling human evolution. I agree, it's likely that the traditional reading is correct. Especially if you look at the stories these guys have been telling since.
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Feb 22, 2015 05:03
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George posted:I agree, it's likely that the traditional reading is correct. Especially if you look at the stories these guys have been telling since.
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Feb 22, 2015 07:22
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Prop Wash posted:I get that you want to read it that way, but that's just, like, your opinion, man. I'd go so far as to say that your reading doesn't even make a lot of sense compared to the reading where Lavos is controlling human evolution. Here's the thing I have with that: aside from crashing into the planet and changing the environment, the closest thing Lavos has done to manipulation is with Zeal and Zeal alone. Any messing with genomes due to magic is something I attribute to the Zeal people doing it to themselves than Lavos forcing them to do so. IE 'sitting there being a crazy good source of energy' doesn't seem like a conscious actions to me. Especially when it's only conscious action tends to be 'rearrange the world with sub-orbital space laser-needle rain so I can go back to leeching until this planet cracks in two.' Thus to me it always made sense that part of Lavos leeching energy from the planet also include leeching evolutionary things to fuel it's growth and to fortify it's spawn for when they go into space to crash into planets and start the process over again. tld;r: Lavos isn't shown to be manipulating evolution so I don't believe he was.
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Feb 22, 2015 07:42
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Isn't Lavos responsible for magic in CT? Ayla doesn't have magic because she is pre-Lavos, while Robo does not because Robot. Zeal digging into Lavos was an attempt to tap into the source so to speak.
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Feb 22, 2015 07:59
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