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gfanikf posted:Man this Punisher run is loving dull. It's not overtly bad or good. It's just dull. I do find the writing fairly boring but I really love Mitch Gerards art in this series. Hes doing a great job with it.
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Feb 18, 2015 09:12
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Lurdiak posted:You'd think he'd have run out of things to say about the character by now. You can tell war stories until the end of time.
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Feb 18, 2015 21:24
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Hey guys do you remember that issue in the current Punisher where he gets shot and captured. And then next issue he escapes? Which one was that again?
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Feb 25, 2015 07:25
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LordPants posted:Hey guys do you remember that issue in the current Punisher where he gets shot and captured. And then next issue he escapes? Which one was that again? All of them.
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Feb 25, 2015 08:16
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Wanderer posted:Do you know for a fact that Ennis has ever read that? There's certainly a thematic link, but Marshal Law is obscure as hell. Yes. Ennis mentioned it in an interview about The Boys. He said in the same interview that he doesn't hate super heroes, like Pat Mills hated super heroes, he just finds them in need of lampooning. Personally, I find Mills take of outright hatred of the genre to be more intriguing than whatever The Boys was. For all the talk about why Punisher is not hunted down super heroes for all of his killing, I'd direct you to his first and early appereances. Punisher was a reoccurring Spider-Man villain.
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Mar 1, 2015 10:32
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He quickly stopped becoming a Spider-Man villain after he found out the Jackal lied to him. Which reminds me there was a Punisher mini several years back with the cliffhanger being the Jackal is back as a crime lord and it was never followed up on. I would've loved to see that confrontation. Punisher also had a long run as a frequent guest appearance in Spectacular Spider-Man before eventually getting his own title.
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Mar 1, 2015 13:37
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Isn't there some story of Stan Lee going "man, he's a kick rear end dude with a giant skull on his chest. He's not going to be a villain forever" or something?
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Mar 1, 2015 13:40
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Lee will say anything to any audience. But Lee didn't create Punisher. Conway did. But Lee has claimed to come up with the name, saying he had earlier used it for some C-list Galactus villain. Lee also claimed Conway wanted to call him the Assassin.
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Mar 1, 2015 14:13
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notthegoatseguy posted:Lee also claimed Conway wanted to call him the Assassin. I think there was a joke about that in the 90s X-men cartoon.
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Mar 1, 2015 14:29
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http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3705198&pagenumber=1&perpage=40
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Mar 9, 2015 17:55
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Watching an LP of Wolfenstein - New Order and Blaskowitz' inner dialogue reminds me A LOT of MAX Castle.
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Mar 16, 2015 00:21
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God Of Paradise posted:
I the why for that was when he did it in Fraction's run was it didn't sell well enough and other writers just ignored it out recover it away anyway. I still miss his take on Rhino from that series.
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Mar 28, 2015 21:17
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:I the why for that was when he did it in Fraction's run was it didn't sell well enough and other writers just ignored it out recover it away anyway. Are you a markov bot?
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Mar 28, 2015 21:37
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lol
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Mar 28, 2015 21:41
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Naturally, the ending is completely meh.
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Apr 8, 2015 23:14
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Fiendly over in LP is covering the video game: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3714450
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Apr 19, 2015 05:03
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David D. Davidson posted:Fiendly over in LP is covering the video game: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3714450 I was really hoping it'd be the Genesis beat-em-up.
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Apr 19, 2015 05:15
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David D. Davidson posted:Fiendly over in LP is covering the video game: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3714450
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Apr 20, 2015 18:16
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http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2015/04/punishers-mitch-gerads-designs-chris-kyle-memorial-benefit-patch/ Gross. The current run on Punisher is interesting (in theory) because it is written and drawn by outspoken conservatives - that has not been the case for years. Alas, the result is quite boring "handsome Punisher as a hero", I would've prefered something extreme and true to the classic vigilante movies.
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Apr 22, 2015 15:14
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That is really gross. I would have expected better from Gerads for some reason. I dropped the book a while back back when I was thinning out my list because it was...nice but nothing amazing. Not really in a rush to catch up now.
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Apr 22, 2015 15:19
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Everything is terrible all the time.
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Apr 22, 2015 16:51
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fatherboxx posted:http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2015/04/punishers-mitch-gerads-designs-chris-kyle-memorial-benefit-patch/ I don't know, designing a patch with the symbol of a mass murdering psychopath for Chris Kyle seems pretty accurate to me.
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Apr 22, 2015 18:11
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Punisher written by conservatives? I'll have to check it out. I did a full read of Punisher and Punisher War Journal from the 80s/90s and man you can see the DEA propaganda fingerprints all over some of those stories, especially I want to say the first ~25 issues of The Punisher Vol 2. Its pretty interesting to read critically through a 'war on drugs' lens. I even think there's one where Frank soliloquies that Oliver North was a hero. Don't even get me started on the racist stereotypes left right and center. Not that Ennis' run was that much better, but at least he was self-aware. e: Conservative Punisher is more a return to form is what I'm trying to say.
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Apr 22, 2015 20:31
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Yeah Punisher is at his heart pretty much a conservative power fantasy. When he works he works really well, but it's very easy to miss the mark entirely.
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Apr 22, 2015 20:52
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PK loving SUBBAN posted:Punisher written by conservatives? I'll have to check it out. I did a full read of Punisher and Punisher War Journal from the 80s/90s and man you can see the DEA propaganda fingerprints all over some of those stories, especially I want to say the first ~25 issues of The Punisher Vol 2. Its pretty interesting to read critically through a 'war on drugs' lens. Chuck Dixon wrote those and yes he is conservative.
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Apr 22, 2015 20:52
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PK loving SUBBAN posted:Don't even get me started on the racist stereotypes left right and center. Not that Ennis' run was that much better, but at least he was self-aware. I'm probably going to regret this, but I would say Ennis's run was that much better. I see a fair few people try to rake Ennis over the coals for "racist stereotyping," but it doesn't hold up, and I think it has to do with how a lot of people don't really understand how it works. Using stereotypes may often be lazy, but a behavioral or occupational stereotype is often there for a reason and you can't avoid it unless you deliberately write around it. As an example, if you're writing a story set in the farmlands of California in the 2000s-2010s and most of the people who are out working the fields aren't undocumented Mexican immigrants, then you're choosing to depart from real-world accuracy in favor of avoiding stereotypes, which doesn't do you any narrative good. Ennis's Castle is mostly working within the established crime structure of a pulp-influenced New York City, where various ethnic groups strive for dominance over a variety of trades, and thus, he deals mostly with criminals. Some of those criminals aren't white. If he was trying to make a dent in the New York City crack trade and he never ran into a black guy, that would be an unacceptable break from reality and it would do the narrative some damage. That isn't to say that it's not possible to write a story that features racist stereotyping, of course. It doesn't happen that much anymore, since modern mainstream pop-culture is so relentlessly goddamned self-aware, but it's out there. The big thing now is lampshading the stereotype in an attempt to excuse it, like a horror movie where the black guy dies first while saying that he can't believe he's dying first. Hakkesshu posted:Yeah Punisher is at his heart pretty much a conservative power fantasy. When he works he works really well, but it's very easy to miss the mark entirely. That's definitely a solid theme of vigilante stories in general. You bypass the law entirely, take it into your own hands, and deal with the "otherized" criminal, absent of the messy moral confusion that characterizes real-life scenarios. Don't worry about the intricate, generations-spanning situation that has made these people criminals; just shoot them and be done with it, happy in the knowledge you've made the world a better place. That, in turn, is a big part of why he was popular in the '80s and fell off rapidly in the '90s, and why Ennis's approach has been such an indelible mark. It isn't strictly the "Punisher as serial killer" beat, but rather, the acknowledgement that a Punisher's activities would do little to nothing to stop or solve the problems he's technically fighting. Castle may be wiping out entire generations of criminals, but those people have families and the society that produced them is still producing them, so it's a zero-sum game. Ennis's Castle views that endless cycle as a value add, which is why it's basically the new version of the character, and I'm pretty sure it's why Edmundson's version has yet to be seen mowing down random-rear end street thugs. He can't do "vigilante" better, so he's focusing on freelance-style military adventures like the Mack Bolan novels that spawned the character in the first place.
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Apr 22, 2015 23:27
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I wonder if any writer will ever have Frank give his views on all the unarmed police killings dominating the news currently.
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Apr 23, 2015 02:49
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ruddiger posted:I wonder if any writer will ever have Frank give his views on all the unarmed police killings dominating the news currently. If they killed guilty people he'd be into it. If the people they killed were innocent he wouldn't. But for real, these shootings are probably why they won't be trying to make a movie/show based on Frank for a while.
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Apr 23, 2015 03:36
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The stupid Cop By Day take they wanted to go with for the last show sure would be inappropriate.
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Apr 23, 2015 03:44
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Ennis' run was amazing because it balanced the titillation and the horrification of the endless violence so well. It was terrible to look at but also thrilling. And that balance is something that is very very hard to get right (see for example a lot of some of Ennis' lesser works). I think that Ennis' run really took the Punisher to his natural conclusion and then realised and executed it so very well. He was portrayed as a completely unlikeable psychopath because he was a guy that was doing something that a psychopath would do. But it has been a while since I read it, that's really why I liked it. And I'm generally anti-stylised violence but I felt that Punisher was using it for a greater purpose instead of just guts and blood. I actually like the current Punisher because it is fascinating to read through and it contrasts really well with my other books, but I'd hardly recommend it as is to anyone else.
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Apr 23, 2015 04:13
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Anyone remember if the Marvel crossover issues of Punisher in Nam were any good? Nam the comic book was pretty sparse with showing anything from that war in its full terrible light (plus it was about specific characters and not a blanket book about the war), and I seem to remember the Punisher arc being no different, but my single issues are back home across the country. I did like that book enough to have a pretty good chunk of the run, but I read those as a kid so who knows how it holds up.
ruddiger fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Apr 23, 2015 |
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Apr 23, 2015 04:30
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Honestly, Punisher: Born kinda makes it unnecessary.
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Apr 23, 2015 05:54
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I never realized Edmondson was an avowed conservative whose day job up until recently was with some sort of "conservative leadership institute." In a weird way it makes me feel better than the book that is all about how an extra-legal mass-murderer should unironically be a role model for cops and soldiers and how all of the characters who decide to mow down 'urban' 'savage' 'thugs' indiscriminately never kill the wrong people and are always in the right wasn't accidentally being written by a well-intentioned person who hadn't thought things through.
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Apr 23, 2015 06:52
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Holy christ I'm glad I never picked up the current Punisher ongoing  that's literally the opposite of Ennis in every way
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Apr 23, 2015 08:17
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The thing with the Ennis run (and I'd say the Aaron parts) is that both understand that The Punisher is a broken piece of poo poo and maybe he does the world ~better~ by killing the people he does but he's not a hero. Edge & Christian posted:I never realized Edmondson was an avowed conservative whose day job up until recently was with some sort of "conservative leadership institute." In a weird way it makes me feel better than the book that is all about how an extra-legal mass-murderer should unironically be a role model for cops and soldiers and how all of the characters who decide to mow down 'urban' 'savage' 'thugs' indiscriminately never kill the wrong people and are always in the right wasn't accidentally being written by a well-intentioned person who hadn't thought things through. Do you have any links or anything about the Edmondson stuff? I've seen people start to say he's uber conservative and apparently a homophobic piece of poo poo but I've not seen anything backing that up yet other than vague tweets. If it's true I'd rather just cut ties to all their work.
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Apr 23, 2015 08:37
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Waterhaul posted:The thing with the Ennis run (and I'd say the Aaron parts) is that both understand that The Punisher is a broken piece of poo poo and maybe he does the world ~better~ by killing the people he does but he's not a hero. Edmondson: "As a matter of fact, I’ve recently “retired” from my position (as Director of International Programs at the Leadership Institute) to write full time. But certainly, the question still applies." The Leadership Institute's self-proclaimed mission is "to increase the number and effectiveness of conservative activists and leaders in the public policy process." The front page of the site touts Rand Paul for President, and lauds a Colorado student for "exposing a corrupt Black Panther professor". According to Wikipedia the Leadership Institute's alumni "include Grover Norquist, Ralph Reed, Jeff Gannon, Senator Mitch McConnell, Governor Mike Pence, James O'Keefe, new members of the 113th Congress, and elected officials in all 50 states." Obviously none of this proves or is meant to imply any specific thing Edmondson has said or did, just that with this background there's a pretty good chance he's hella Republican, and that casts his Punisher run (the only thing of his I've read) in a different light.
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Apr 23, 2015 15:41
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Thanks for posting that I find it super interesting.
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Apr 23, 2015 17:15
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LORD OF BUTT posted:Honestly, Punisher: Born kinda makes it unnecessary. And eventually we're going to get "The Platoon," too. http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/03/15/garth-ennis-new-punisher-comic-wont-feature-the-punisher/ From the same article: "Ennis mentioned that Sony/AMC are shooting the Preacher pilot at the end of May..." Get ready for TV-MA-quality Jesse Custer, everybody! 
BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Apr 24, 2015 |
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Apr 24, 2015 15:09
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BIG HEADLINE posted:And eventually we're going to get "The Platoon," too. The casting of that is pretty great Dominic Cooper as Jesse Ruth Negga as Tulip Joe Gilgun as Cassidy
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Apr 24, 2015 15:35
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http://whenwillthehurtingstop.blogspot.com/2015/04/crime-and-punishment-groan.html Very good post on politics and the established tone of Punisher stories in the light of Edmonson's run. Tim O'Neil posted:Therein lies the crucial difference between the Punisher as initially conceived and developed, and the character as he exists now. By necessity, considering the character's age, his roots in Vietnam have been scrubbed. Now he's a veteran of one of the recent Gulf wars (the stories themselves being, I think, intentionally vague on this point). And right now in American culture there exists a sharp and contentious divide between those who celebrate these wars unconditionally as exemplars of American heroism, and those who regard the whole enterprise with sharp skepticism. The culture that promotes the likes of Chris Kyle will have no problem lionizing a character like Frank Castle as the patron saint of the "Righteous Kill," as opposed to a cautionary tale of an already-damaged human being destroyed by the trauma of a tragically unnecessary conflict.
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Apr 24, 2015 22:42
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