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I kind of love that stupid rear end stuff weird I know and the David Bowietine in joke is one of my favourites.
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Apr 25, 2015 04:35
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Thwomp posted:I thought the Mortis thing rubbed people (at least, those like myself) the wrong way because it attempted to do two unnecessary things: 1) insert some cheap fan-service by exposing Anakin to his future actions (which is then all wiped away via memory erasure) and 2) it tried to address the "balance" question and the Chosen One issue raised by the movies.  *Shudder That is some of the worst art they've ever put out for anything. Casimir Radon fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Apr 25, 2015 |
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Apr 25, 2015 06:47
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Here's the thing though; they clearly remember the whole experience (Obi-Wan makes a comment to Rex about being gone for far more than a few moments), it gives a more mystical explanation for The Force than midichlorians, and there's nothing that suggests Mortis was a literal planet or The Ones were literal beings. You could easily interpret it as the three of them having a shared force vision or some poo poo. I dunno, it just really felt like an attempt at making the force a more mystical concept than any other prequel source. Nothing wrong with that.
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Apr 25, 2015 07:29
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Rochallor posted:Dark Empire has a stupid story but I love it anyway because nothing else looks like it. Campbell-faces aside, it captures the hell out of a universe festering with darkness and corruption. It doesn't suit the story very well, but the story also doesn't suit the story very well, so. I've always loved the coloring in Dark Empire.
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Apr 25, 2015 16:13
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Thwomp posted:2) it tried to address the "balance" question and the Chosen One issue raised by the movies. Aside from the bipedal, rastafarian basset hound and apparent backwards flow of technology, this is the thing that bothered me the most about the prequels. You have a large, educated group that are aware of a dark side, but to their knowledge there are no dark side users. They find a "chosen one" whose sole definition is to bring balance to the force. What the gently caress did they think was going to happen? Keep in mind that my knowledge of any EU stuff that may attempt to justify this is entirely through this thread.
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Apr 25, 2015 17:55
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Thwomp posted:It even brought Liam Neeson back briefly. And Pernilla August.
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Apr 25, 2015 17:58
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Dr. Benway posted:Aside from the bipedal, rastafarian basset hound and apparent backwards flow of technology, this is the thing that bothered me the most about the prequels. You have a large, educated group that are aware of a dark side, but to their knowledge there are no dark side users. They find a "chosen one" whose sole definition is to bring balance to the force. What the gently caress did they think was going to happen? You're thinking of "balance" as a weighing of good versus evil, whereas I'm pretty sure the Jedi thought of it as meaning peace and harmony as opposed to discord. The prequel-era Jedi are also dimly aware that the dark side is growing, and they hope that Anakin might be the person the Force has chosen to stem the tide.
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Apr 25, 2015 17:59
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Casimir Radon posted:It wasn't as bad as I was expecting it to be. That said fundamental questions about how the force works should be avoided in most circumstances, especially if you're going to use a bunch of weird stuff for explanations, and then wipe everyone's memory at the end. Also somebody decided to tie it in with Abeloth which taints it in the eyes of any sane person. The artist who did that was I think originally a fan costumer who somehow got a job doing art for one of the card games. All her art is super amateurish and they all look like the same person. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Images_by_Shea_Standefer
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Apr 25, 2015 18:03
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Zoran posted:You're thinking of "balance" as a weighing of good versus evil, whereas I'm pretty sure the Jedi thought of it as meaning peace and harmony as opposed to discord. The prequel-era Jedi are also dimly aware that the dark side is growing, and they hope that Anakin might be the person the Force has chosen to stem the tide. I recall Lucas himself saying that the existence of the Sith is what put the Force out of balance: until the teaser for The Force Awakens (the one with the Andy Serkis voiceover), I don't think the term "light side of the Force" had been used explicitly in any of the movies; even a lot of EU stuff would talk about "the Force and its dark side" rather than splitting it into a light and dark half (though obviously a much larger proportion of the material had the idea of a light side, of course).
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Apr 25, 2015 18:34
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Zoran posted:You're thinking of "balance" as a weighing of good versus evil, whereas I'm pretty sure the Jedi thought of it as meaning peace and harmony as opposed to discord. The prequel-era Jedi are also dimly aware that the dark side is growing, and they hope that Anakin might be the person the Force has chosen to stem the tide. Ah. Cloudy my understanding was.
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Apr 25, 2015 20:07
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Dr. Benway posted:Aside from the bipedal, rastafarian basset hound and apparent backwards flow of technology, this is the thing that bothered me the most about the prequels. You have a large, educated group that are aware of a dark side, but to their knowledge there are no dark side users. They find a "chosen one" whose sole definition is to bring balance to the force. What the gently caress did they think was going to happen? By this theory, the Death Star was devastating as an engineering accomplishment and political expression, but it wasn't fundamentally revolutionary - if Sheev had spent that money on building yea many more ships, he would have had a much more powerful navy. But he didn't want a navy that was 82% larger and more powerful, he wanted a Death Star.
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Apr 25, 2015 22:42
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Nessus posted:Sheev I am never going to get used to that. Sheev! It's like he was trying to say Steve but he didn't have his dentures in.
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Apr 25, 2015 23:14
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I meant the technology thing as purely aesthetic. Transparent digital screens and inputs w/ fancy sliders and UI to mechanical switches, buttons, and CRT's. I've had friends try to explain it as that the prequels represent a renaissance or apex of sorts followed by the expanse of an Empire led standardization. Also, the majority of the action surrounding the OT took place almost, if not entirely, on backwoods outer rim areas without the resources for top of the line equipment. I'm just not havin' it. And just now typing this out, I suppose that we have a real world technological timeline sample of one. Who's to say that it would work the same way a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away.
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Apr 26, 2015 00:41
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Dr. Benway posted:I meant the technology thing as purely aesthetic. Transparent digital screens and inputs w/ fancy sliders and UI to mechanical switches, buttons, and CRT's. I've had friends try to explain it as that the prequels represent a renaissance or apex of sorts followed by the expanse of an Empire led standardization. Also, the majority of the action surrounding the OT took place almost, if not entirely, on backwoods outer rim areas without the resources for top of the line equipment. I'm just not havin' it.
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Apr 26, 2015 00:58
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It was just the lack of desire to create a visual consistency that erks me. "Look at the neat stuff we can do." , rather than to make it fit in with a logical progression of equipment. Like ver. 2.0 came out before 1.0. It's jarring, and honestly just a personal gripe, and not really in the spirit of this thread.
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Apr 26, 2015 01:15
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I have enough trouble typing fast on my smartphone. If I was hurtling through space at 140 mglt or whatever it's called I'd rather be able to feel my fighter's switches than have to look at them (even though in that clip above Luke is constantly looking, what a scrub). And that's as far as I'm willing to go in retroactively justifying it, I have no explanation for the temple touchscreens vs. Death Star CRTs stuff.
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Apr 26, 2015 01:37
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Here's the thing though; they clearly remember the whole experience (Obi-Wan makes a comment to Rex about being gone for far more than a few moments), it gives a more mystical explanation for The Force than midichlorians, and there's nothing that suggests Mortis was a literal planet or The Ones were literal beings. You could easily interpret it as the three of them having a shared force vision or some poo poo. I dunno, it just really felt like an attempt at making the force a more mystical concept than any other prequel source. Nothing wrong with that.  Chairman Capone posted:The artist who did that was I think originally a fan costumer who somehow got a job doing art for one of the card games. All her art is super amateurish and they all look like the same person.
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Apr 27, 2015 00:15
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Hazo posted:I have enough trouble typing fast on my smartphone. If I was hurtling through space at 140 mglt or whatever it's called I'd rather be able to feel my fighter's switches than have to look at them (even though in that clip above Luke is constantly looking, what a scrub). This is the same Galactic Empire that leaves life support out of TIE Fighters for cost reasons, so maybe it's just a case of not bothering to buy the slick technology that we see in the prequels.
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Apr 27, 2015 01:38
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I don't think we saw any better tech in the prequels. I think the shiny Naboo ships and better CGI interface graphics/holograms made people assume that, but I agree it is just cosmetic differences. The only really big tech difference is more starfighters have no built in hyperdrives and shields.
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Apr 27, 2015 02:05
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Ensign_Ricky posted:
Reminds me of some fan design I saw a while back 
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Apr 27, 2015 05:02
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KurdtLives posted:I don't think we saw any better tech in the prequels. I think the shiny Naboo ships and better CGI interface graphics/holograms made people assume that, but I agree it is just cosmetic differences. The only really big tech difference is more starfighters have no built in hyperdrives and shields. Those cosmetic differences were bad, though. I would have much preferred the prequels to have the same lived-in, WWII aesthetic than the crappy CGI smoothness they had. It would have matched the Original Trilogy better, and I personally prefer that late 70s early 80s look to the hyper-clean CG stuff.
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Apr 27, 2015 05:13
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FishFood posted:Those cosmetic differences were bad, though. I would have much preferred the prequels to have the same lived-in, WWII aesthetic than the crappy CGI smoothness they had. It would have matched the Original Trilogy better, and I personally prefer that late 70s early 80s look to the hyper-clean CG stuff. The whole point is that it doesn't match the OT. They consciously made it look more like 30s/40s/50s sci-fi, all chromed out and swoopy. It's actually pretty smart and fun, and makes a nice aesthetic divide - PT is needlessly decadent and generally optimistic design-wise, while the OT is more gritty, worn down, beaten in to conformity, or cobbled together. It's flat out good design language.
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Apr 27, 2015 06:04
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Prolonged Priapism posted:The whole point is that it doesn't match the OT. They consciously made it look more like 30s/40s/50s sci-fi, all chromed out and swoopy. It's actually pretty smart and fun, and makes a nice aesthetic divide - PT is needlessly decadent and generally optimistic design-wise, while the OT is more gritty, worn down, beaten in to conformity, or cobbled together. It's flat out good design language. I wrote a longish reply on how I disagree but I don't think TBB is the best place for this. Maybe in CineD or something. Anywho, I haven't read an actual Star Wars book in quite some time but the new trilogy and a bunch of cool FFG Star Wars games have got me rehooked into the franchise. It seems like the thread consensus on Tarkin is that it's not great but still alright. Are any of the other new canon books better or should I just go back and actually read the Wraith Squadron books for cool spaceship fights/Ewok pilots?
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Apr 27, 2015 07:13
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FishFood posted:I wrote a longish reply on how I disagree but I don't think TBB is the best place for this. Maybe in CineD or something.
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Apr 27, 2015 07:25
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FishFood posted:I wrote a longish reply on how I disagree but I don't think TBB is the best place for this. Maybe in CineD or something. I'm reading Lords of the Sith (it comes out tuesday) and it is probably the most enjoyable of the recent releases so far. It's pretty dark and adult. Most of the POV so far has been from a group of literal Twi'lek insurgents. The "first Canon LGBT character!" bit is overplayed. If you weren't paying attention you'd miss it, and it is more along the lines of hair or eye color than character defining plot point, which is how it should be done, really.
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Apr 27, 2015 07:34
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FishFood posted:Are any of the other new canon books better or should I just go back and actually read the Wraith Squadron books for cool spaceship fights/Ewok pilots? I haven't read any of the new canon books, but I did just start rereading Wraith Squadron, and yeah you should definitely read that. It's a good mix of cool spaceship fights and general shenanigans.
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Apr 27, 2015 08:41
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Carteret posted:I'm reading Lords of the Sith (it comes out tuesday) and it is probably the most enjoyable of the recent releases so far. It's pretty dark and adult. Most of the POV so far has been from a group of literal Twi'lek insurgents. EDIT: I take that back, I read his TOR tie-in. I thought that series was alright, some here hate it. Mostly I'm just disappointed that all that hard work didn't go into a single player game instead of an MMO shitfest. Casimir Radon fucked around with this message at 09:02 on Apr 27, 2015 |
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Apr 27, 2015 08:56
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Carteret posted:The "first Canon LGBT character!" bit is overplayed. If you weren't paying attention you'd miss it, and it is more along the lines of hair or eye color than character defining plot point, which is how it should be done, really. She's not the first canon LGBT character, either. Traviss had a gay Mandalorian couple in one of her books, and KOTOR had a gay party member, with her ex as an NPC. Although if you count, almost every LGBT character in Star Wars is evil or has close brushes with such. Two Mandalorians, a Moff, a fallen Jedi who can potentially return to the light, and a Jedi who can fall to the dark side depending on what you do. If you count TOR, add a few dodgy mercenaries, two Sith Lords, a megacorp officer, and a morally dodgy Republic spy.
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Apr 27, 2015 09:26
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New canon then?
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Apr 27, 2015 09:27
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Cythereal posted:She's not the first canon LGBT character, either. Traviss had a gay Mandalorian couple in one of her books, and KOTOR had a gay party member, with her ex as an NPC. Those are Legends now.
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Apr 27, 2015 10:48
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jivjov posted:Those are Legends now. They did say KOTOR and TOR are still canon until and unless it's later decided otherwise, though. And at any rate it's beside the point. The moff lady isn't the first LGBT character in Star Wars, though outside of TOR they've always been footnote characters and have always had histories or been actively affiliated with the evil side of things.
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Apr 27, 2015 10:54
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Didn't George say something really dumb like 10 years ago about how there are no gays in the Star Wars universe? Edit: oh yeah, way off. It was a Bioware community manager: http://kotaku.com/5230325/there-are-no-gays-in-star-wars
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Apr 27, 2015 10:57
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Cythereal posted:They did say KOTOR and TOR are still canon until and unless it's later decided otherwise, though. Everything that's not the films, the Clone Wars, Rebels, the new Marvel comics, and the 4 newest novels is Legends. Including TOR and KotOR. EDIT: The idea that only post-ROTJ stuff was made non-canon was a misunderstanding that was correct a handful of hours after the original announcement. jivjov fucked around with this message at 11:06 on Apr 27, 2015 |
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Apr 27, 2015 11:00
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jivjov posted:Everything that's not the films, the Clone Wars, Rebels, the new Marvel comics, and the 4 newest novels is Legends. Including TOR and KotOR. However, IIRC they also said that they have no plans to touch the KOTOR/TOR era for the time being and that they should be assumed to be canon unless new material addresses that time period.
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Apr 27, 2015 11:10
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Cythereal posted:However, IIRC they also said that they have no plans to touch the KOTOR/TOR era for the time being and that they should be assumed to be canon unless new material addresses that time period. Unless you've got a source, that's inaccurate. They explicitly listed out what is canon and the remainder is Legends. I know TOR is one of the last remaining ongoing Legends stories, but just because they're still putting out content for it doesn't mean its not still Legends
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Apr 27, 2015 11:14
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jivjov posted:Unless you've got a source, that's inaccurate. They explicitly listed out what is canon and the remainder is Legends. I know TOR is one of the last remaining ongoing Legends stories, but just because they're still putting out content for it doesn't mean its not still Legends Fine, whatever. Pedantic point that had nothing to do with my original post has been made and understood.
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Apr 27, 2015 11:22
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Cythereal posted:Fine, whatever. Pedantic point that had nothing to do with my original post has been made and understood. It's very relevant. Having an LGBT character in the old EU was nice, but having one in the new Canon, the one that is curated by the Story Group and explicitly "counts" and is part of the overall timeline is amazingly inclusive and a much bigger victory than anything that's ever been in a Traviss novel.
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Apr 27, 2015 11:56
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That Star Wars will beat Star Trek to its first canonically-gay character leaves me feeling frustratingly ambivalent. On the one hand, Star Wars could use more social commentary, so hooray. On the other hand, the sci-fi film/TV franchise that basically invented televised social commentary is missing out 
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Apr 27, 2015 12:30
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Drone posted:That Star Wars will beat Star Trek to its first canonically-gay character leaves me feeling frustratingly ambivalent. On the one hand, Star Wars could use more social commentary, so hooray. On the other hand, the sci-fi film/TV franchise that basically invented televised social commentary is missing out And it amuses me to no end that Warhammer 40k beat them both to it. The sci-fi setting whose tagling is "In the grim darkness of the far future there is only war" has more and more positive depictions of gay characters than Star Trek (if we count book characters and actors offering their interpretations of the characters) and Star Wars combined.
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Apr 27, 2015 12:33
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Cythereal posted:And it amuses me to no end that Warhammer 40k beat them both to it. The sci-fi setting whose tagling is "In the grim darkness of the far future there is only war" has more and more positive depictions of gay characters than Star Trek (if we count book characters and actors offering their interpretations of the characters) and Star Wars combined. I'm no massive expert in 40k lore, but I thought the stuff there was never overt? I mean they're eight feet tall Space Marines, they're all big heaping piles of testosterone, of course they probably gently caress each other. But I've never seen a case where it was outright referenced that like... Battle Brother Brutus was banging Librarian Lucius or something. I've heard the whole Lion El'Jonson / Luther thing being done in the context of a gay relationship before, but I thought that was just speculation (besides the Lion's name being taken from a well-known gay poet IRL). Edit: and I've heard same-sex themes when it comes to the Blood Angels too, but there it never went beyond childish "but they like pretty things!" and "they have a fixation with nipples and pecs". Drone fucked around with this message at 13:03 on Apr 27, 2015 |
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Apr 27, 2015 13:00
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