|
shadow puppet of a posted:I miss page 100 already. The party lives on in my heart as I hope it does yours.
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 01:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 12, 2024 18:51 |
|
|
Kenzie posted:What favors did Garak do before that episode anyway? Enough to give him a slap on the wrist for attempting to incite an interstellar war that would have destroyed the Defiant and killed pretty much the entire cast of DS9? Off the top of my head... -Was instrumental in the infiltration of Cardassia and rescue of a kidnapped Bajoran major and Federation ally (Kira). -Secretly passed communication at the behest of a high ranking Starfleet officer (Sisko) to the Cardassian government warning them of a Klingon attack. -Helped defend DS9 against a Klingon assault. -Aided the Federation or Federation allies with secret intelligence, code breaking services, and other special services on numerous occassions. I'd say that's enough to let someone off lightly for attempting to do something that failed, especially since the target was a mortal enemy of the Federation. Sisko ordered him/the crew not to attempt anything, but remember the Federation leadership already made their position clear when they frankly told Sisko that they hoped the Obsidian Order/Tal Shiar first strike would wipe the Founders out. Starfleet command probably wished Worf hadn't been able to stop him.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 01:51
|
|
|
counterfeitsaint posted:But there would have been on Dominion War if Garak succeeded. Did they know that though? Would the Jem'Hadar sit there and do nothing in retaliation? Would they have managed to kill every last changeling?
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 01:51
|
|
|
oldpainless posted:There was that tng episode where every crime was punished by death. They still seemed pretty happy. Basically don't break the law and you won't have anything to worry about. Seems pretty simple to me and I don't why society can't function like that today. It was even better then that. It was if you committed a crime in an area that was currently patrolled (the areas are secretly selected at random) any crime is punishable by death. So if they were there a week earlier it wouldn't be a problem. gently caress the Edo though. I didn't enjoy anything more than enslaving their entire race as the Romulans in Birth of the Federation as Cloaking Device > Edo Guardian
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 02:05
|
|
|
Chomp8645 posted:Off the top of my head... The last one wasn't really until season 7. He did sell out Lursa and Bator and exposed Dukats orphan plot though. And at least tried to help in Civil Defense. Plus he was hands down the best character on any trek show, which is worth some points. Kitchner posted:It was even better then that. I really need to get around to watching that episode in HD sometime.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 02:08
|
|
|
Rutibex posted:i don't understand why they even beamed down to that planet, it should have been obvious from orbit that they weren't a space fairing civilization because they gently caress like bonobos
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 02:28
|
|
|
counterfeitsaint posted:Plus he was hands down the best character on any trek show, which is worth some points. Well I can agree to that
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 02:30
|
|
|
There is no better shore leave in starfleet than watching Geordie fail to have it off with anyone. Its an experience no holodeck can recreate
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 02:31
|
|
|
shadow puppet of a posted:There is no better shore leave in starfleet than watching Geordie fail to have it off with anyone. Its an experience no holodeck can recreate What if it's a hologram that shoots him down?
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 03:13
|
|
|
Rutibex posted:i don't understand why they even beamed down to that planet, it should have been obvious from orbit that they weren't a space fairing civilization I thought the prime directive was primarily about not contacting races that are unaware of aliens (at least until they get warp capabilities. So wouldn't it be fair game if some other race visited those naive sex havers first? Pneub posted:What if it's a hologram that shoots him down? Geordi: Hey holobabe, what's your name? Hologram: Sorry, I have a holo-boyfriend
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 03:20
|
|
|
Geoff Zahn posted:I thought the prime directive was primarily about not contacting races that are unaware of aliens (at least until they get warp capabilities. So wouldn't it be fair game if some other race visited those naive sex havers first? Nah cause there was at least one instance where the ferengi were all like we gon exploit the poo poo out of this planet, and starfleet was wringing their hands because they couldn't respond or help or get involved without 'damaging the planet's natural evolution' themselves.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 03:23
|
|
|
Sorry I missed page 100 but this isn't canon
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 03:50
|
|
|
EngineerSean posted:Sorry I missed page 100 but this isn't canon This is though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_2yEoPdN4o
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 03:51
|
|
|
I'm super glad you retarded fuckfaces had the self-control to postpone the whole HERE'S WHAT MY DUMB FAT rear end THINKS ABOUT THE MORALITY OF PRISON debate for after page 100
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 04:41
|
|
|
You say you want O'Brien chat?
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 05:05
|
|
|
Tujague posted:I'm super glad you retarded fuckfaces had the self-control to postpone the whole HERE'S WHAT MY DUMB FAT rear end THINKS ABOUT THE MORALITY OF PRISON debate for after page 100 They should sentence you to forever in prison for this lovely post, but instead you just get 30 days at a pleasant penal colony in new zealand
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 05:44
|
|
|
Tujague posted:I'm super glad you retarded fuckfaces had the self-control to postpone the whole HERE'S WHAT MY DUMB FAT rear end THINKS ABOUT THE MORALITY OF PRISON debate for after page 100 Hey now, I'm not fat.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 05:52
|
|
|
EngineerSean posted:Sorry I missed page 100 but this isn't canon Excuse me, but everything on page 100, the best page, is canon.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 05:56
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 06:01
|
|
|
Goldmine
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 06:01
|
|
|
Holy poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 09:11
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 09:43
|
|
|
Have you ever seen carnival french fries arranged in a labor camp? You will.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 09:51
|
|
|
Moridin920 posted:You say you want O'Brien chat? It's still funny, so yes.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 10:42
|
|
|
Tujague posted:I'm super glad you retarded fuckfaces had the self-control to postpone the whole HERE'S WHAT MY DUMB FAT rear end THINKS ABOUT THE MORALITY OF PRISON debate for after page 100 I can actually hear your fingers slipping on the cheeto grease all over your keyboard as you typed this post, only pausing to briefly wipe your hands clean on your My Little Pony t-shirt
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 16:10
|
|
|
Kitchner posted:Remember there's also an episode where it turns out Tepal's mother was stranded on earth for a while in the 50s and they were all about non interference then too. Impossible, the Vulcan Science Institute has determined that time travel is impossible
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 16:42
|
|
|
just fnished ds9 and the ending was actually really satisfying but goddamn i never gave a poo poo about pah wraiths or nurse ratched or prophets. did anyone like that part of the show?
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 16:52
|
|
|
Wiggles Von Huggins posted:just fnished ds9 and the ending was actually really satisfying but goddamn i never gave a poo poo about pah wraiths or nurse ratched or prophets. did anyone like that part of the show? I liked the prophets bc they impact the main story or whatever but tbh I could have done without all the pah wraith plots and I feel like Gul Dukat losing his mind and transforming into a Bajoraan worshipping pah wraiths was getting off the deep end just a little bit. and they killed jadzia!
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 16:57
|
|
|
They were stupid but you can't blame 'em. Rond Moore was just cutting his teeth for BSG's even crazier religious plot.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 17:10
|
|
|
I think It could have been good if they had written a decent conclusion to that plot arc, but as it was that whole resolution just felt tacked on. Sisko doesn't even know anything is going on until like 10 seconds before he has to go stop it. I was fine with the whole Dukat going insane thing, because he was always fairly needy to begin with. And given that the prophets are what hosed him over it makes sense that he would make them his enemies. But aside from Kira trying to get Winn to step down that whole plot was disconnected from the main war arc, or any of the main characters really.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 17:31
|
|
|
malevolent or at the very least, douchey god like energy beings are Star Trek boilerplate and there's nothing particularly stupid about the pah wraiths, and really nothing at all unusual about them except that they recur. My problem with them is that you kind of hope they would get fleshed out a little since they're so important to really the whole main plot of the show. TNG also had a recurring douchey god like energy being and eventually takes some time to dig into his character, even if what we find out isn't super significant to any sort of overarching plot, since there isn't one. The problem with the pah wraiths is that we have no idea what the gently caress they are doing or really, what their deal even is beyond they're evil prophets who want to destroy the whole universe. Well jeez, who pissed in their cheerios? They're just assholes for assholery's sake apparently, and the prophets thought so too and locked them up in literal hell. That may be how a religious text would approach the idea, but that's no reason why the show should. What's the prophet's deal that they didn't just kill these guys? If they can't be killed, why can they be shut in a cave? How do they feel about the Bajorans? How do they relate to any of the other elements of the show? (they don't, apart from popping up at the end to be assholes for no adequately explained reason). Trek's best takes on the god like energy being concept are those that wind up with something to say about the god like energy being beyond just "he did a Plot Thing but our heroes were victorious", and ultimately DS9 doesn't do that.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 17:45
|
|
|
skasion posted:malevolent or at the very least, douchey god like energy beings are Star Trek boilerplate and there's nothing particularly stupid about the pah wraiths, and really nothing at all unusual about them except that they recur. My problem with them is that you kind of hope they would get fleshed out a little since they're so important to really the whole main plot of the show. TNG also had a recurring douchey god like energy being and eventually takes some time to dig into his character, even if what we find out isn't super significant to any sort of overarching plot, since there isn't one. The problem with the pah wraiths is that we have no idea what the gently caress they are doing or really, what their deal even is beyond they're evil prophets who want to destroy the whole universe. Well jeez, who pissed in their cheerios? They're just assholes for assholery's sake apparently, and the prophets thought so too and locked them up in literal hell. That may be how a religious text would approach the idea, but that's no reason why the show should. What's the prophet's deal that they didn't just kill these guys? If they can't be killed, why can they be shut in a cave? How do they feel about the Bajorans? How do they relate to any of the other elements of the show? (they don't, apart from popping up at the end to be assholes for no adequately explained reason). Trek's best takes on the god like energy being concept are those that wind up with something to say about the god like energy being beyond just "he did a Plot Thing but our heroes were victorious", and ultimately DS9 doesn't do that. agreed. besides the strange anime fight between jake and kira, the thing i hated most was the "why?" what was the motivation of the "gods and devils"?
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 18:11
|
|
|
caleramaen posted:I think It could have been good if they had written a decent conclusion to that plot arc, but as it was that whole resolution just felt tacked on. Sisko doesn't even know anything is going on until like 10 seconds before he has to go stop it. I was fine with the whole Dukat going insane thing, because he was always fairly needy to begin with. And given that the prophets are what hosed him over it makes sense that he would make them his enemies. But aside from Kira trying to get Winn to step down that whole plot was disconnected from the main war arc, or any of the main characters really. skasion posted:malevolent or at the very least, douchey god like energy beings are Star Trek boilerplate and there's nothing particularly stupid about the pah wraiths, and really nothing at all unusual about them except that they recur. My problem with them is that you kind of hope they would get fleshed out a little since they're so important to really the whole main plot of the show. TNG also had a recurring douchey god like energy being and eventually takes some time to dig into his character, even if what we find out isn't super significant to any sort of overarching plot, since there isn't one. The problem with the pah wraiths is that we have no idea what the gently caress they are doing or really, what their deal even is beyond they're evil prophets who want to destroy the whole universe. Well jeez, who pissed in their cheerios? They're just assholes for assholery's sake apparently, and the prophets thought so too and locked them up in literal hell. That may be how a religious text would approach the idea, but that's no reason why the show should. What's the prophet's deal that they didn't just kill these guys? If they can't be killed, why can they be shut in a cave? How do they feel about the Bajorans? How do they relate to any of the other elements of the show? (they don't, apart from popping up at the end to be assholes for no adequately explained reason). Trek's best takes on the god like energy being concept are those that wind up with something to say about the god like energy being beyond just "he did a Plot Thing but our heroes were victorious", and ultimately DS9 doesn't do that. If you read these unformatted walls of text about star trek space gods, please, kill yourself
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 18:16
|
|
|
Zigmidge posted:If you read these unformatted walls of text about star trek space gods, please, kill yourself lol. i admit that i skimmed to get the gist bud 
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 18:23
|
|
|
Wiggles Von Huggins posted:lol. i admit that i skimmed to get the gist bud  He's a Denobulan! 
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 20:23
|
|
|
Yeah, the whole pah-wraiths / prophets thing was the farty noise at the end of DS9's otherwise dope final chapter. In retrospect it seems like they wrote themselves into several corners. I was OK with Gul Dukat selling his soul to the devil in order to screw everyone who had mistreated him, even if he had to turn into a Bajoran to do it. But he never should have been reduced to begging - the evil prophets should have had a better plan than that. Nurse Ratched should have died an unredeemed chump, and Sisko's last message to the Bajorans should have been "The prophets are going bye-bye, time to stand on your own!" Which would have left the wormhole a potential threat, therefore making the truce with the Founders heavy and unrelated poo poo. BAM! TOS-style social commentary with fewer loops. Instead they kind of went two steps forward and one back on all of these points, which made for some sweet cliffhangers but it got tiring real fast. Also, every conversation with the prophets should have been shorter and they should never repeat prophet catchphrases over and over unless they have been said somewhere else or revealed in prophesy. At one point they were just going "THE SISKO SHOULD EAT SANDWICHES!" and Sisko would go "BUT I DON'T WANT A SANDWICH! WHAT DOES A SANDWICH MEAN!??" and the prophets would go "THE SISKO SHOULD EAT SANDWICHES" until the plot point was beaten out like the world's most unenthusiastic jerk-off session. And there should have been fewer conversations with the prophets.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 21:55
|
|
|
the prophets are dumb, and the anti-prophets where even dumber. space gods in star trek are supposed to be one off guys, not recurring characters. it ruins the whole theme of the show to have higher beings interfering with the humans, it takes the agency away from the humans and makes everything they do pointless. they work great in one off episodes, but for DS9s attempt at a continuous story it was a bad idea.
Rutibex fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Aug 21, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 21:58
|
|
|
what about the vorlons
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 22:06
|
|
|
Luigi Thirty posted:what about the vorlons Yes.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 22:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 12, 2024 18:51 |
|
|
Delsaber posted:Yes. well, as answers go, short, to the point, utterly useless, and totally consistent with what I've come to expect
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 22:09
|
|