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Negligent
Aug 20, 2013

Its just lovely here this time of year.
So far as I know he is saying Australia should offer the exact same assistance to Christian refugees as to other refugees, that is, permanent settlement in Australia.

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freebooter
Jul 7, 2009

I have to say I think there's more to it than race - I think there's an element of wealth in there as well. People seem to fear hordes of poor people storming the barricades and looting the mansion while we cower under the sideboard.

We would absolutely not be detaining American refugees in camps if the country descended into civil war. But if North Korea suddenly went apeshit, I can't imagine we would be less than welcoming to Japanese or South Korean refugees either. And then I can very easily imagine us being squeamish about Chinese refugees. There is definitely an element of wealth to it.

Negligent
Aug 20, 2013

Its just lovely here this time of year.
The thing about being a refugee is that, you are also a person.

You might be Christian, you might be an accountant, you might be a Man United fan.

As long as you satisfy the main test, that you are a refugee, what is wrong with a person who wants to help using these things about you to argue that you should be given safety in Australia?

UrbanLabyrinth
Jan 28, 2009

When my eyes were stabbed by the flash of a neon light
That split the night
And touched the sound of silence


College Slice

Negligent posted:

So far as I know he is saying Australia should offer the exact same assistance to Christian refugees as to other refugees, that is, permanent settlement in Cambodia.

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN
Jun 26, 2009



Why are people over analyzing this when the article spells out their reasoning for you? As if it wasn't self evident.

quote:

No more muslim men.

Birb Katter posted:

So the dump your Aussie workers and hire foreigners on the cheap thing Abbotts department told the cruise company owner that Abbott also emphatically denied, in a surprise twist it turns out Abbott was lying.



Lmfao what country is abbott the pm of again?

Unimpressed
Feb 13, 2013

Negligent posted:

Persecution of Christian minorities is actually a thing in many parts of the world, where Christians do not enjoy the privileged position they have in the anglosphere.

Uses the word "Angloshpere" un-ironically, expects to be taken seriously...

Anyone who thinks this whole Christian preference thing isn't about anti Muslim racism is at best naive but more realistically an arsehole (and don't even go to the "Islam is not a race" bullshit).

Unimpressed
Feb 13, 2013

katlington posted:

Why are people over analyzing this when the article spells out their reasoning for you? As if it wasn't self evident.



Lmfao what country is abbott the pm of again?

High-Net-Worth-Individual-istan

Diet Crack
Jan 15, 2001

Tony will personally check their knees for rug burns at the borders. Trackers will sound alarms if subjects face North West at suspicious times of the day.

Negligent
Aug 20, 2013

Its just lovely here this time of year.

Unimpressed posted:

Uses the word "Angloshpere" un-ironically, expects to be taken seriously...

Anyone who thinks this whole Christian preference thing isn't about anti Muslim racism is at best naive but more realistically an arsehole (and don't even go to the "Islam is not a race" bullshit).

What is wrong with the word anglosphere. It has a Wikipedia page and everything.

Also, Syrian Christians and Syrian Sunni Muslims are both racially Syrian Arabs. It would be a very strange form of 'racism' that could discriminate between two people of the same race based on the individual's religion.

gay picnic defence
Oct 5, 2009


I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Jumpingmanjim posted:

After the lid was blown on systemic wage fraud known as the "half pay scam" across the 7-Eleven convenience store empire, a new more insidious scam has emerged known as the "cash scam".


It revolves around employees now receiving the correct award rate in their nominated bank accounts for the hours they have worked.
A new more insidious wage rort is sweeping the nation's biggest convenience chain.

They are then expected to pay part of it back to the franchisee in cash, away from the surveillance cameras that operate in most of the 620 stores.

If they refuse to play ball, they lose their job and are threatened with deportation. Their names become mud around the network.

According to one Sydney-based employee the cash is collected outside the store by a representative of the franchisee.

The employee said the payslip reflects a payment of $25 or more an hour, which is within the award rate, but the agreed amount between the employee and franchisee is a lesser sum.

The scam is sweeping the country, with numerous workers discussing variations on the "cash scam" theme.

For instance, a permanent resident might pay back a smaller amount than a worker on a student visa who is only allowed to work 20 hours a week under the visa conditions.

As one store manager says: "Imagine working for $12 an hour and being taxed for $20 an hour or more. I didn't think they could get more odious but I was wrong."

Pranay Alawala, a former 7-Eleven worker in Brisbane who recently confronted his boss to pay back more than $40,000 to himself and a few other workers, said he had been contacted by many workers who have got caught up in the "cash scam".

Text messages between a franchisee and a 7-Eleven employee from a Brisbane store leave no doubt that this new fraud is widespread.

The "half pay scam" morphed into its new abomination last month when head office became aware that ABC's Four Corners and Fairfax Media were investigating wage fraud and started trying to cover itself by cracking down on payroll compliance, including making sure franchisees had their bookwork "correct".

Between July and August head office audited 225 stores and found 69 per cent had payroll compliance issues including gross underpayment of staff, falsification of payroll records and in at least one case a franchisee holding the passport and drivers licence of an employee without their permission.

Consumer advocate Michael Fraser has been in contact with many workers and says the latest scam is evidence that 7-Eleven franchisees are highly organised from the top down and quickly adapt to anything interfering with their wage model.

"Now that they are expected to pay the correct wages – at least while the media is watching – they have had to adapt," he said.

He said he had been contacted by text, email and on the phone by concerned staff from every state that 7-Eleven operate in that are now having to pay back half of their wages. Mr Fraser is advising them to keep a personal diary at home with all hours worked, how much they were paid and how much they were told to pay back.

If there is any money withdrawn from an ATM, he is telling them to keep the receipt with the diary.

The new scam will be difficult to prove and could be an additional challenge for the independent panel that has been set up by 7-Eleven to investigate underpayment of wages.

The panel, headed by former ACCC chairman Allan Fels, a fierce critic of the 7-Eleven franchise model, will kick off this week.

Mr Fels hit the headlines a week ago when he said "the only way a franchisee can make a go of it in most cases is by underpaying wages, by illegal behaviour."

Workers are invited to come forward if they have been underpaid and the panel will assess their claims, but the success or otherwise of the panel will depend on whether they are given amnesty by the Abbott government and whether the onus is on the worker to prove their case, or the franchisee and 7-Eleven head office.

Remember, most of the payroll records and rosters have been falsified, other documents shredded and many workers have been getting paid in cash, which would make it almost impossible for most workers to prove their case.

That's assuming they get amnesty and can therefore come forward without the threat of deportation.

With the Abbott Government admitting it is "considering" an amnesty, here's hoping.

My former housemate was caught up in one of these. It was a relative who was scamming him too :negative:

Inge
Jan 16, 2007
SERIOUSLY THATS DISGUSTING I'M TRYING TO EAT

Negligent posted:

What is wrong with the word anglosphere. It has a Wikipedia page and everything.

Also, Syrian Christians and Syrian Sunni Muslims are both racially Syrian Arabs. It would be a very strange form of 'racism' that could discriminate between two people of the same race based on the individual's religion.

Can you literally not follow instructions

Megillah Gorilla
Sep 22, 2003

If only all of life's problems could be solved by smoking a professor of ancient evil texts.



Bread Liar

Negligent posted:

What is wrong with the word anglosphere. It has a Wikipedia page and everything.

So does "friend zone".

Amethyst
Mar 28, 2004

I CANNOT HELP BUT MAKE THE DCSS THREAD A FETID SWAMP OF UNFUN POSTING
plz notice me trunk-senpai
Don't act like the word anglosphere is a racial slur lmao

WhiskeyWhiskers
Oct 14, 2013


"هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

Negligent posted:

The thing about being a refugee is that, you are also a person.

You might be Christian, you might be an accountant, you might be a Man United fan.

As long as you satisfy the main test, that you are a refugee, what is wrong with a person who wants to help using these things about you to argue that you should be given safety in Australia?

Because you've either missed the part where they've said, "no muslim men," or are wilfully ignoring it. No one is saying that christians are incapable of being persecuted. Just that it's hosed up to discriminate based on what will hurt the polls less rather than on the basis of who is actually in the most need.

Halo14
Sep 11, 2001
'Stop bombing, start resettling': Jeff Kennett's plea to 'failed' Federal Parliament

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-po...908-gjhi6h.html

quote:

Former Liberal premier Jeff Kennett has launched a blistering attack on the Federal Parliament saying the lack of national leadership is failing voters and the question of welcoming tens of thousands of refugees from Syria into Australia should not even be up for debate.

Hailing Australia as a great country built on successive waves of immigration since 1788, Mr Kennett called on the federal government to quit plans to bomb Syria and spend the money on processing refugees for resettlement in Australia instead.
"This country is a country that has always had its arms open wide. What I see this with this latest discussion, which is based on humanitarian grounds, is actually a wonderful opportunity for us to take over the next three years 50,000 people who are displaced of their freedoms," he said.
He said instead of constantly looking to raise taxes, state and federal leaders should seize the opportunity of boosting the population with traditionally hard-working migrants as a different way of expanding the economy.
"This shouldn't be requiring much debate," he said.

The former Victorian leader said it was up to political leaders to stare down bigots who oppose any mass migration because of their religious beliefs or claims they not fleeing persecution. Liberal Senator Cory Bernardi is being branded an "embarrassment" for saying the toddler Aylan Kurdi, pictured drowned on a Turkish beach, was not a legitimate refugee.
"There will be always be people who oppose, and there are always going to be some bigots, but leadership rises above it and the Australian public is desperately crying out for leadership," Mr Kennett said. "The Federal Parliament has failed, absolutely failed, the people of this country for a decade," a passionate Mr Kennett told Fairfax Media.

Mr Kennett urged opponents to "open their eyes": "I say to those Australians who are expressing 'anti' views, open your eyes, look around you. Look in hospitals, without our immigration programs many of these institutions could not operate."
The Syrian refugee crisis dominated debate in the Liberal and Coalition party room meetings on Tuesday, with 17 MPs speaking on the issue for about an hour.

Mr Abbott said the National Security Committee of cabinet would be briefed by Immigration Minister Peter Dutton, who is in Geneva and has now met with UNHCR officials.
A decision on whether to go ahead and raise the overall refugee intake is expected as early as Wednesday.

One Liberal MP said there had been a decisive shift in community sentiment, to the effect that Australia now needed to do more by accepting more refugees.
This view was backed by several colleagues, though one MP said it should be remembered that Australians didn't want to see the nation take too many refugees.
The Prime Minister said Australia would look to do more, consistent with the nation's interests.
Mr Abbott also pointed out that Australia only now had the capacity to act on the issue because his government had stopped the flow of asylum seeker boats.

He promised Australia would act with "strength and decency", and "judiciously" in the days ahead.

The National Security Committee's meeting on Tuesday is expected to finalise plans to authorise air strikes on Islamic State targets in Syria.
Mr Kennett said military action was not the right response for Australia.
"It's too far away, we haven't got a military force of substance," he said.
"So for goodness sake, spend that money on setting up the camps to process these people and bring back 50,000 who want a new life and new hope."

Mr Kennett dismissed suggestions that Australia lacks the infrastructure to house 50,000 refugees and said migrants traditionally worked harder than locally born Australians and pointed the effect the Vietnamese influx in the 1970s had in regenerating Sydney and Melbourne.
The federal opposition is calling for an emergency one-off 10,000 increase to the intake along with $100 million funding for the UNHCR.
Foreign Minister Julie Bishop is suggesting the Coalition could agree to offering refugees a mix of temporary and permanent protection visas. Mr Kennett is the third state Liberal voice to call for greater humanitarian action, in sharp contrast with Mr Abbott's response, which will be finalised when the Immigration Minister Peter Dutton returns from Geneva, where he has been holding talks with the UNHCR.

Mr Abbott backs accepting more Syrian refugees but only if they are contained within the current humanitarian intake of 13,750 that is scheduled to increase by 5000 in 2018.
New South Wales Premier Mike Baird also wants the federal government to do "more" and promised his state "remains ready and willing to do more than our fair share."
Victorian Liberal leader Matthew Guy has also called for Australia to accept refugees above the current intake and has suggested the Point Nepean barracks could be used to house Syrian refugees.

Mr Kennett said the Federal Parliament's failure over the past 10 years had made State Parliaments look good.
"Right now the state of Australian Parliament makes every State Parliament looks good and it has never been the case before," he said.

I would blow Dane Cook
Dec 26, 2008

Amethyst posted:

Don't act like the word anglosphere is a racial slur lmao

Your momma's so fat they call her the anglosphere.

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN
Jun 26, 2009



Halo14 posted:

'Stop bombing, start resettling': Jeff Kennett's plea to 'failed' Federal Parliament

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-po...908-gjhi6h.html

A day where i agree with jeff kennett what is happening

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003




I always thought anglosphere was just a convenient word for 'countries that speak English as the primary language and as a result England's past spread and the shared language have something of a shared culture'. Since when has it turned into a mockable thing? It's a very handy word.

(Really, it's "people who watch mostly unmodified American TV.")

MikeJF fucked around with this message at 08:15 on Sep 8, 2015

open24hours
Jan 7, 2001

What's wrong with the word 'Anglosphere'? Are Francophonie and Hispanosphere out too?

Murodese
Mar 6, 2007

Think you've got what it takes?
We're looking for fine Men & Women to help Protect the Australian Way of Life.

Become part of the Legend. Defence Jobs.
how can a sphere have angles

Amethyst
Mar 28, 2004

I CANNOT HELP BUT MAKE THE DCSS THREAD A FETID SWAMP OF UNFUN POSTING
plz notice me trunk-senpai
Forbidden words:
-Anglosphere
-Partisan

Halo14
Sep 11, 2001


--------------------------
Labor motion against Heydon voted down

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2015/09/08/labor-motion-against-heydon-voted-down.html

quote:

A Labor senate motion calling on the governor-general to dismiss unions royal commissioner Dyson Heydon has been voted down.
The motion was moved by Labor leader in the senate, Penny Wong, who said the government has failed to act on Mr Heydon.

There were 34 votes for the motion and 34 votes against it, meaning it was defeated.

The Labor motion was supported by the Greens and independent senators Jacqui Lambie and Glenn Lazarus and opposed by Nick Xenophon, Bob Day, John Madigan and Ricky Muir

Halo14 fucked around with this message at 08:20 on Sep 8, 2015

hooman
Oct 11, 2007

This guy seems legit.
Fun Shoe

Murodese posted:

how can a sphere have angles

Non-euclidian colonialism.

Diet Crack
Jan 15, 2001

Murodese posted:

how can a sphere have angles

There's a wiki for that too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_trigonometry

Unimpressed
Feb 13, 2013

open24hours posted:

What's wrong with the word 'Anglosphere'? Are Francophonie and Hispanosphere out too?

Anglosphere and Francophonie (I've never heard that one, but I'll trust you on it) are different. Anglosphere isn't used to denote english speaking countries, at least not by the people who use it most as a part of their world view (spoiler alert, they're all right wing conservatives). It denotes the white, neo-capitalist, "leaders of the free world" countries, i.e. the 5 eyes. South Africa used to be part of the Anglosphere until apartheid became really uncool. English is the primary and official language of Ghana for example, but Ghana isn't part of the Anglosphere, I can assure you of that. Same for Jamaica, Bahamas, etc.

You Am I
May 20, 2001

Me @ your poasting


Strange that Muir was against it

Negligent
Aug 20, 2013

Its just lovely here this time of year.

Unimpressed posted:

Anglosphere and Francophonie (I've never heard that one, but I'll trust you on it) are different. Anglosphere isn't used to denote english speaking countries, at least not by the people who use it most as a part of their world view (spoiler alert, they're all right wing conservatives). It denotes the white, neo-capitalist, "leaders of the free world" countries, i.e. the 5 eyes. South Africa used to be part of the Anglosphere until apartheid became really uncool. English is the primary and official language of Ghana for example, but Ghana isn't part of the Anglosphere, I can assure you of that. Same for Jamaica, Bahamas, etc.

Sorry I don't have a subscription to Red Flag or w.e poo poo you have to read to be aware of that. My leftist cred points -1

open24hours
Jan 7, 2001

Unimpressed posted:

Anglosphere and Francophonie (I've never heard that one, but I'll trust you on it) are different. Anglosphere isn't used to denote english speaking countries, at least not by the people who use it most as a part of their world view (spoiler alert, they're all right wing conservatives). It denotes the white, neo-capitalist, "leaders of the free world" countries, i.e. the 5 eyes. South Africa used to be part of the Anglosphere until apartheid became really uncool. English is the primary and official language of Ghana for example, but Ghana isn't part of the Anglosphere, I can assure you of that. Same for Jamaica, Bahamas, etc.

Yeah, that's true, although it would be entirely possible to get into a big semantic argument about competing definitions of Anglosphere. I still think it's a useful word though, and it's usually pretty clear if people are talking about the Anglosphere or all English speaking countries from the context.

Unimpressed
Feb 13, 2013

open24hours posted:

Yeah, that's true, although it would be entirely possible to get into a big semantic argument about competing definitions of Anglosphere. I still think it's a useful word though, and it's usually pretty clear if people are talking about the Anglosphere or all English speaking countries from the context.

Yeah, you're right, and if Pol Pot there hadn't used it in the context of being an apologist for anti Muslim racism, I probably wouldn't have noticed it.

Unimpressed
Feb 13, 2013

Negligent posted:

Sorry I don't have a subscription to Red Flag or w.e poo poo you have to read to be aware of that. My leftist cred points -1

You don't need a subscription to be aware of it. Just a little understanding of the reason people use words like that and where they're coming from.

On second thought, maybe a subscription is the right option for you. I'd send you a voucher, but I've never even heard of Red Flag other than being the name of an aerial combat exercise and some spy poo poo (admittedly the spy poo poo was from Archer, so it might be made up).

V for Vegas
Sep 1, 2004

THUNDERDOME LOSER

You Am I posted:

Strange that Muir was against it

Not really. He's smart enough to realise it was a dumb stunt that would have no practical effect whatsoever.

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/sep/08/john-howard-says-erosion-of-australias-gun-safety-laws-would-be-huge-mistake

have john howard yelling at the abbott government for going against gun control

that man has no allies

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.
Leyonhjelm has said he “blackmailed” the government into allowing imports of the weapon, which is capable of firing seven shots in succession, but is not technically considered a semi-automatic, and therefore banned, gun.

In exchange, the libertarian senator voted against a Labor amendment requiring an adult or guardian be present when blood, saliva or fingerprints are taken from children by the Australia’s Border Force.

libertarians, voted for government taking ownership of peoples bodies in exchange for guns since 1950.

Negligent
Aug 20, 2013

Its just lovely here this time of year.

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

Because you've either missed the part where they've said, "no muslim men," or are wilfully ignoring it. No one is saying that christians are incapable of being persecuted. Just that it's hosed up to discriminate based on what will hurt the polls less rather than on the basis of who is actually in the most need.
I don't think preferencing Christian Syrian refugees would be a poll positive in the general populace. It might even lose them votes since a majority of people aren't Christian.

It is a policy for the Liberal Party Right. And the Liberal party has never concealed espousing Christian beliefs. They do so openly, and sometimes to great mirth of their detractors.

break-up breakdown
Mar 6, 2010

fact check infographic on australia's refugee intake

open24hours
Jan 7, 2001

Lid posted:

Leyonhjelm has said he “blackmailed” the government into allowing imports of the weapon, which is capable of firing seven shots in succession, but is not technically considered a semi-automatic, and therefore banned, gun.

From what I understand, which isn't much, the gun in question isn't anything special, it's just that for some reason you can buy this one with a less restricted class of gun license than you need to buy similar ones.

Can anyone who knows more about this kind of thing explain which loophole is being exploited?

[edit:

quote:

http://www.range365.com/lever-shotgun-proving-popular-down-under
According to this story, the lever-action, 7+1 capacity Adler A110 12 gauge shotgun will technically fall into the least restrictive of six firearms categories under the country's laws, Category A, which includes rimfire rifles (not semiautomatic), shotguns (not pump-action or semi-automatic), air rifles, and paintball guns.

Since the law doesn't specifically include lever-action shotguns in any category, they fall, by default, into Category A with other shotguns that aren't semi-autos or pumps. Pump-action shotguns with more than five rounds are relegated to Category D.

What a terribly written law.]

open24hours fucked around with this message at 09:52 on Sep 8, 2015

Sludge Tank
Jul 31, 2007

by Azathoth

quote:

A SENIOR federal official has confirmed a cruise line was advised to sack 60 Australian workers and hire foreigners to avoid the consequences of Government legislation.
And an executive of the company has blasted Prime Minister Tony Abbott and Deputy Prime Minister Warren Truss, who denied the advice was ever given.
“I’m not trying to pick a fight with the Prime Minister or the Deputy PM,” Bill Milby, an executive with North Star Cruises, told a Senate inquiry last night.
“But I don’t like being told I’m lying and I took offence at that ... I take very strong offence at that.”
At issue are proposed laws which would allow foreign shipping companies to work on Australian coastal services for half a year without paying Australian wages.
The Government says the legislation is needed to boost competition and lower freight costs. The shipping industry says it will struggle to compete with companies paying significantly lower wages bills.
A Department of Infrastructure bureaucrat, Judith Zielke, confirmed the suggestion had been made to West Australian cruise company True North, which owns North Star Cruises. She said the company was told it could re-register overseas and hire and train a crew overseas to cut costs.
It had been among “various options” canvassed at two meetings officials had with Mr Milby, Ms Zielke told the Senate’s Rural and Regional Affairs committee.
“I don’t have an issue with the people who told me that because if you read the legislation and the explanatory memorandum, they were telling me the truth,” Mr Milby told the inquiry.
The claim, revealed last week in a written submission to the committee, had been denied by Mr Abbott and the Infrastructure Minister Mr Truss.
The row over Australian jobs has embarrassed the Government just as it is telling voters employment is a major policy objective, and is defending its free trade agreement with China against claims it could cost Australian jobs.
Shadow transport minister Anthony Albanese today said the committee also had been told by department officials the government’s own research indicated the changes would leave only two Australian-flagged vessels working interstate coastal trade routes.
And he accused Prime Minister Abbott of publicly questioning Mr Milby’s honesty. “Australia deserves more than a Prime Minister who wants to destroy jobs and, when an employer raises concerns, publicly questions the man’s honesty.
“It is shameful that any government would openly canvass replacing the Australian flag with the white flag on Australian jobs.
“But the real disgrace is that officials were simply providing an honest account of the real effect of Mr Abbott’s ideologically driven reform proposals, which will destroy the Australian shipping
industry.”

The video that accompanied that article was really hard to watch.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/pm-embarrassed-by-bureaucrats-sack-the-aussie-workers-advice-admission/story-fnkgde2y-1227517258644



Also, in semi-related news... Remember the Alexander Spirit (tanker in tasmania with crew being sold out to foreign labour?)


Yeah well that ship has just returned to the Australian coast, crewed with foreign labour.

gently caress this government into the ground.

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.
Leyonhjelm has said he “blackmailed” the government into allowing imports of the weapon, which is capable of firing seven shots in succession, but is not technically considered a semi-automatic, and therefore banned, gun.

In exchange, the libertarian senator voted against a Labor amendment requiring an adult or guardian be present when blood, saliva or fingerprints are taken from children by the Australia’s Border Force.

Negligent
Aug 20, 2013

Its just lovely here this time of year.
Arguments against democracy: some voters literally too stupid to correctly use a ballot paper.

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Tasmantor
Aug 13, 2007
Horrid abomination

open24hours posted:


What a terribly written law.]

Our gun laws are really badly written. Anyway this shouldn't be an issue at all the firearm should be made category D and the the manufacturer could make a five round version for cat' C then it would be done and dusted. Sadly, as you pointed out, the law where written by people who got their gun knowledge from Arnie films and didn't really consult with people who knew what they were on about.

E: just fit clarity a lever action is not semi auto' not just technically but not at all.

How the gently caress did we end up in a position where the protection of children is dealt away for the freedom to buy a specific model of gun? How dose this country keep getting worse?

Tasmantor fucked around with this message at 10:15 on Sep 8, 2015

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