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Gammatron 64 posted:Seriously. That's how I think of them, too. Ehhh I can't blame them. The custom dice thing works for the strategy games they put out where there's only two or three varieties, but no one I've heard actually knows what all the symbols on the dozen dice for that thing mean. Plus you just don't get enough of the things in the starter boxes. (Also, while the three starter boxes make a lot of sense for the Star Wars setting, the core rulebook should be a single item.)
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Sep 18, 2015 07:01
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Keiya posted:Ehhh I can't blame them. The custom dice thing works for the strategy games they put out where there's only two or three varieties, but no one I've heard actually knows what all the symbols on the dozen dice for that thing mean. Plus you just don't get enough of the things in the starter boxes. I encourage you to come over to the Star Wars rpg thread to discuss this further...you've got some misconceptions about the game. There's only 7 types of dice (3 paired good and bad dice, and then the 7th for Force stuff), and the core rule books all share the core rules. The choice of which of the three to get is all fluff and theme.
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Sep 18, 2015 10:59
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Gammatron 64 posted:... what with a CGI dance number, ... Ugh, the stupid sequence with Alien Joe Cocker? I'm at a complete loss for what George (or whoever) thought that added to the scene. I suppose he just liked the music?
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Sep 18, 2015 11:23
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FishFood posted:Firstly, editing can make or break a movie. It's kind of important. Secondly, at the end of Jedi, Luke's love for his father is what redeems them both. I don't know how much clearer it can get. In the original trilogy, love and friendship save the galaxy. In the prequels they destroy the Republic. Editing can't salvage poor composition, writing, sound, lighting, cinematography, etc. It can help disguise it, or cut it out, but editing is built on the base of everything that's gone before in production. You seem to not understand my comments. You're letting your faulty presumptions dictate how you understand these movies.
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Sep 18, 2015 11:25
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Effectronica posted:THX 1138, American Graffiti, and Star Wars are all lovely movies, with distracting editing confusing people into thinking they're good. OK. I was obviously being a bit hyperbolic. George certainly did good work himself as well or the editing would not have mattered. However, the two things that really made Star Wars compelling as a film - snappy dialogue and quick pacing - were basically all Marcia. These qualities started to suffer after they divorced and by the time of the prequels we had arrived at George's true vision: plodding political drama and wooden dialogue.
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Sep 18, 2015 11:48
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Jazerus posted:These qualities started to suffer after they divorced and by the time of the prequels we had arrived at George's true vision: plodding political drama and wooden dialogue. Heh. I'm reminded of that one episode of the Full of Sith podcast where they field a listener question about what they thought of the politics subplots in the prequel trilogy, and (I think) the one presenter who's really big into the prequel movies said something about how he thought (or related an anecdote about somebody he knew saying) that it was incredible and amazing that the entire saga started with a dispute over trade negotiations. 
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Sep 18, 2015 11:57
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Jazerus posted:I was obviously being a bit hyperbolic. George certainly did good work himself as well or the editing would not have mattered. However, the two things that really made Star Wars compelling as a film - snappy dialogue and quick pacing - were basically all Marcia. These qualities started to suffer after they divorced and by the time of the prequels we had arrived at George's true vision: plodding political drama and wooden dialogue. 1. The snappy dialogue was provided by the actors. 2. There's nothing wrong with a political drama. 3. The prequels aren't political dramas, anyhow, at least not more than the OT. 4. The best acting in Star Wars movies comes from characters with totally ADRed dialogue, in any case.
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Sep 18, 2015 12:00
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Effectronica posted:1. The snappy dialogue was provided by the actors. Did I say that there was anything wrong with that? The "plodding" part is the issue. The political aspect simply exacerbated that because politics is uniquely unexciting in a film unless handled well. I was not referring to the performance of the lines btw. She, along with a couple of George's friends, kept the original cast from sounding as wooden as Anakin due to George's inability to write realistic dialogue.
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Sep 18, 2015 12:15
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Oh dear Christ go back to CineD. Next somebody's going to be saying the prequels were cinematic brilliance and that we're just not reading. In any case, is Aftermath a book I should go out and buy or are the brief notes on what happens in the galaxy sufficient that I can avoid it and not miss out on much?
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Sep 18, 2015 13:22
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Yorkshire Tea posted:Oh dear Christ go back to CineD. This is where to cool for the old EU star wars fans hang out, we love/hate everything EU related.
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Sep 18, 2015 13:34
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Jazerus posted:Did I say that there was anything wrong with that? The "plodding" part is the issue. The political aspect simply exacerbated that because politics is uniquely unexciting in a film unless handled well. No, it's not. This is a false statement, both in the tautological nature of saying something is boring if you don't know how to make it exciting, and in the belief that politics is uniquely difficult to make exciting on film. Furthermore, the prequels are still fast-paced movies. The accusations surround them remind me of those surrounding Robert Altman's Popeye, or, more recently, Brad Bird's Tomorrowland- a movie that doesn't sync up to what's expected, so it gets a variety of semicoherent criticism as a consequence. Finally, most of the snappy remarks were ad-libbed by the actors themselves, and the written ones still had to be acted out. Shifting the auteur from one Lucas to another is still, simply, bullshit. Furthermore, the good dialogue in Star Wars isn't realistic, neither in the literal sense nor the sense of it being a hyperreal form of contemporary conversation.
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Sep 18, 2015 13:34
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It's like SMG and Hbomberguy had the most disappointing child in the world.
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Sep 18, 2015 13:38
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Yorkshire Tea posted:In any case, is Aftermath a book I should go out and buy or are the brief notes on what happens in the galaxy sufficient that I can avoid it and not miss out on much? Get the audio book. Wendig's writing style is hellish to read but sounds great aloud.
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Sep 18, 2015 13:41
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jivjov posted:Get the audio book. Wendig's writing style is hellish to read but sounds great aloud. This. Also, are there any good Star Wars podcasts out there? Because ForceCast (the one run by the people from TheForce.net) is absolutely awful. It used to be pretty bad, but the past couple of months it's become unlistenable. Star Wars Minute is pretty cool, but I was hoping for something more current.
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Sep 18, 2015 14:39
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thrawn527 posted:Also, are there any good Star Wars podcasts out there? Because ForceCast (the one run by the people from TheForce.net) is absolutely awful. It used to be pretty bad, but the past couple of months it's become unlistenable. I sometimes listen to Full of Sith. Pros: they're super enthusiastic about Star Wars. They're all a bit older (well, older than me - mid to late thirties, I reckon) and they've been fans their whole lives, and I find it fun listening to them gush about the latest action figures or whatever even though I couldn't care less about action figures. Cons: they're super enthusiastic about Star Wars. They almost never seem to have a bad word to say about it, which isn't necessarily a good thing (contrast this thread  ).As I mentioned, one of the regular presenters (Bryan Young? I think that's his name - he named his kid after Anakin) has made a bit of a name for himself in fan circles for being the most vocal and most prominent defender of and advocate for the prequels there is, which can be a bit grating if you're not so keen on the prequels, but I think he's reasonably even-handed about his fandom. There's one thing that thing that sticks out about them to me - I remember one episode where they were seriously discussing the prospect of Mara Jade being in TFA or characters from Rebels appearing in the new trilogy or the anthology movies even though they're all in their thirties and should probably know better. They seem to go in for that a lot.
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Sep 18, 2015 15:28
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Wheat Loaf posted:Here's the thing, though - I definitely remember the VHS copy I grew watching having "EPISODE IV: A NEW HOPE" at the start over the opening crawl, and it's not on this. So I haven't the foggiest what the gently caress version we had any more! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_changes_in_Star_Wars_re-releases quote:2006 Star Wars Trilogy DVD release
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Sep 18, 2015 15:50
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It stinks when the taint of CineD leaks into other forums. Honestly, like the actual vague story outlines of the prequels are pretty decent. Palpatine's political maneuvering and engineering a war where he controls both sides just so he could take over the entire galaxy is pretty cool. Well, that, and we all had a vague idea of what happened years before the movies existed. Obi-Wan fighting Anakin and Anakin falling into lava and becoming Vader was part of the backstory for years. The rough idea behind the prequels is good - it's that the execution was really badly botched. Lucas is not a good writer. He doesn't like writing. He should have gotten someone else like Lawrence Kasdan to write a few drafts based on his rough draft before going ahead. You know, like he did with the original movies. We could have wound up with better dialogue, at least. Letting someone else cast\direct would have helped too, because then we might not have wound up with Jake Lloyd and Hayden Christensen. The Clone Wars cartoon gives us a glimpse of the prequels done right. They're also certainly not the worst movies ever and have some good points... but they are easily the most disappointing movies ever. An enormous amount of hype was built up around them. Some of that was on purpose what with all the marketing, the other was the fact that the original Star Wars trilogy came out in the right time and place, all the pieces happened to fall together in the right way and Star Wars wound up as the most popular film franchise of all time. That said, while I enjoy parts of TPM and ROTS, AOTC is truly abominable and hard to sit through. The only positive things I can say about AOTC is that the Imperial March at the end was cool and when the movie came out, I was busy being a horny teenager and paid more attention to my then-girlfriend in the theater.
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Sep 18, 2015 15:56
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thrawn527 posted:This. Beyond the Films from Nathan Butler is my go-to recommendation. Also, Now Playing (my favorite movie review podcast) just started a Star Wars retrospective.
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Sep 18, 2015 15:58
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Gammatron 64 posted:That said, while I enjoy parts of TPM and ROTS, AOTC is truly abominable and hard to sit through. The only positive things I can say about AOTC is that the Imperial March at the end was cool and when the movie came out, I was busy being a horny teenager and paid more attention to my then-girlfriend in the theater. Following my recent rewatch of AOTC and ROTS, I think my favourite part of the prequel trilogy might actually be Ian McDiarmid. I mean, sure, he's basically playing a cartoon for most of ROTS, but the guy seems like he's having so much fun I have a hard time not getting at least a little bit of a kick out of his performance.
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Sep 18, 2015 16:06
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Wheat Loaf posted:Following my recent rewatch of AOTC and ROTS, I think my favourite part of the prequel trilogy might actually be Ian McDiarmid. I mean, sure, he's basically playing a cartoon for most of ROTS, but the guy seems like he's having so much fun I have a hard time not getting at least a little bit of a kick out of his performance. Oh, definitely, me too. He's just a blast to watch chewing up all the scenery and acting like a cartoon super villain. I love Palpatine, even when he's playing senator and isn't being an over the top evil wizard. Ewan McGregor does a good job as Obi-Wan in Episode III as well. Him and McDiarmid are the only actors who have really good performances in the prequels... and that's saying a loving lot considering that they had Christopher Lee, Samuel L. Jackson, Liam Neeson and Natalie Portman in them. I guess it goes to show that good actors are only as good as what material you give them, I suppose. What a waste.
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Sep 18, 2015 16:13
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thrawn527 posted:This. It's not a podcast strictly about Star Wars, but I really enjoyed The Incomparable's episodes about each film. They very clearly do NOT like the prequels and slog through each one picking them apart. Comparable to Red Letter Media perhaps. https://www.theincomparable.com/work/starwars/index.php
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Sep 18, 2015 16:32
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Also, what you were saying about the hype around Episode I, I definitely feel that in terms of pre-release hype and exposure, I think TPM certainly feels like the biggest movie there's been in my lifetime, even more so than stuff like LOTR or the superhero movies we've got at the moment. That's likely a matter of my age, though, since I was eight when TPM came out (and missed the boat on Jurassic Park), thought Darth Maul was the coolest character ever, ate up all the merchandise and followed the press (as best I could) obsessively in a way I've never really done for a film since. Speaking of Jurassic Park, is TFA projected to do better than the most recent one did when it comes out? Because that'd put in the top three movies ever if it did.
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Sep 18, 2015 16:38
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I sincerely enjoy Hayden Christensen's performance in the prequels. Sure, the romance scenes (particularly in AOTC) fall a little flat, but I think there are a few major things about Anakin that he really nails: (1) he genuinely wants to do the right thing and is fiercely loyal, but he's never made to feel truly at home by the Jedi; (2) he's a horny teenager who has zero idea how to handle his feelings, has never had a normal relationship with a girl, and doesn't know how to talk about his desires with any of his mentor figures (making him a counterpart to Padmé, who is more grounded but is even more sheltered); (3) his desperation drives him off the deep end, but even then he's broken and confused (see the crying scene on Mustafar, which I find chilling). And he has some great scenes: the one where Padmé totally emasculates him in front of all the advisors on Naboo and he gets really petulant; the "Ani, I'm pregnant" scene where both he and Natalie Portman pull off a young couple who are simultaneously scared, nervous, and excited; and every shot in ROTS where he's brooding.
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Sep 18, 2015 16:48
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There is literally not one single scene in the prequels that makes any sense at all
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Sep 18, 2015 17:08
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It's pretty cool that people who almost certainly have wholeheartedly accepted the narrative of groupthink making the prequels bad are engaging so baldly in it themselves.
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Sep 18, 2015 17:18
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jivjov posted:Get the audio book. Wendig's writing style is hellish to read but sounds great aloud. "You can say this poo poo but you can't write it, Chuck."
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Sep 18, 2015 17:21
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Effectronica posted:It's pretty cool that people who almost certainly have wholeheartedly accepted the narrative of groupthink making the prequels bad are engaging so baldly in it themselves. Well please enlighten us as to what makes the prequels worthwhile, rather than just standing there being smug about being above peer pressure.
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Sep 18, 2015 17:39
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Van Dis posted:There is literally not one single scene in the prequels that makes any sense at all Either this is your posting gimmick, or you don't know what the word "literally" means.
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Sep 18, 2015 18:09
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SirPhoebos posted:Well please enlighten us as to what makes the prequels worthwhile, rather than just standing there being smug about being above peer pressure. Or this conversation can be moved to the CineD thread, where it belongs. I started Lost Stars last night. About 20% through it now. It's rather YA (not a problem, I like Harry Potter, Hunger Games, and Steelheart, too) but it's really great so far. There's been some extremely heavy handed foreshadowing (one of the characters has a roommate from Alderaan, and he keeps talking about how great his home planet is, and how the main character should totally come there sometime, he'd love it to. This is, I believe, 2-3 years before ANH, so I wonder what might drive this guy to the Rebels? Hmmm...), but the characters are strong, and I'm enjoying it so far. Can't wait to see where it goes.
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Sep 18, 2015 18:16
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Everybody loved the prequels until Red Letter Media made some videos about them saying they were bad. Of course. Duh. If you don't like the prequels, you're just sheeple who don't have any original thoughts in your brain. Working class proles who can't recognize art when they see it. George Lucas is a master auteur, obviously. *grins smugly, furiously masturbates to image of Slavoj Zizek* thrawn527 posted:Or this conversation can be moved to the CineD thread, where it belongs. Yeah. In other words, move it into the trash bin.
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Sep 18, 2015 18:17
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Here's one thing that bugged me most about the Prequels. Sifo-Dyas. Sounds incredibly similar to "Sidious" doesn't it? It would have been so much better if Obi-Wan had spoken to the Cloners and when they mentioned Sifo-Dyas, he would have said "I have no idea who that is" rather than "he was killed almost ten years ago." I mean, it's loving obvious that Sidious had the order placed, what is the point of having another Jedi with a similar name to his Sith name do it instead? But hey, because Sifo-Dyas was a real guy and not a bullshit made up front for the Emperor, that means we got one of three Gollum parodies on The Clone Wars. We had Spider-Gollum Darth Maul, Yoda Gollum and then Sifo-Dyas Gollum.
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Sep 18, 2015 18:19
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Arcsquad12 posted:Here's one thing that bugged me most about the Prequels. Sifo-Dyas. Sounds incredibly similar to "Sidious" doesn't it? It would have been so much better if Obi-Wan had spoken to the Cloners and when they mentioned Sifo-Dyas, he would have said "I have no idea who that is" rather than "he was killed almost ten years ago." I mean, it's loving obvious that Sidious had the order placed, what is the point of having another Jedi with a similar name to his Sith name do it instead? I'm pretty drat sure that Sifo-Dyas was meant to be Sidious but in EU materials they made him into a separate character which was really weird. Also, before ROTS came out, a lot of materials tried to pass off Palpatine and Sidious as separate characters. I'm pretty sure the 2nd edition of the Essential Guide to Characters even had 2 separate entries for Palpatine and Darth Sidious. I saw that and I was like "come on... you guys aren't fooling anyone." Ever since TPM came out in '99, it was obvious that Sidious and Palpatine were the same guy. They were played by the same actor and Darth Sidious even dressed like Palpatine did in the OT. Yorkshire Tea posted:In any case, is Aftermath a book I should go out and buy or are the brief notes on what happens in the galaxy sufficient that I can avoid it and not miss out on much? You can skip Aftermath and read the IO9 article I posed earlier and get the gist of it if you want to save a little money. Aftermath is okay but you aren't missing much should you choose to skip it. It's okay as an audiobook but it's not really worth the $26 they charge for it on iTunes. If you're really itching to get some Star Wars stuff, you could spend that getting the X-Wing games off gog.com or something. GET IN THE ROBOT fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Sep 18, 2015 |
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Sep 18, 2015 18:24
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Gammatron 64 posted:I'm pretty drat sure that Sifo-Dyas was meant to be Sidious but in EU materials they made him into a separate character which was really weird. Nope, it's right in the movie script. "Master Sifo-Dyas was killed nearly ten year ago." said Obi Wan. I don't care how good a manipulator Sheev was, there is no way he could play at being a Senator a Sith Lord and a notable Jedi Master at the same time unless the entire galaxy was on stupid pills. Most likely this was a result of Attack of the Clones's script having only one draft that never went into editing because Lucas was too busy trying to cram more stuff into it even after filming had started.
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Sep 18, 2015 18:43
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jivjov posted:Either this is your posting gimmick, or you don't know what the word "literally" means. It's true. The characters' situations are incomprehensibly incoherent to begin with and then their decisions are equally nonsensical.
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Sep 18, 2015 18:44
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Van Dis posted:It's true. The characters' situations are incomprehensibly incoherent to begin with and then their decisions are equally nonsensical. Perhaps you should rewatch the films in question.
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Sep 18, 2015 18:53
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Gammatron 64 posted:Also, before ROTS came out, a lot of materials tried to pass off Palpatine and Sidious as separate characters. I'm pretty sure the 2nd edition of the Essential Guide to Characters even had 2 separate entries for Palpatine and Darth Sidious. I saw that and I was like "come on... you guys aren't fooling anyone." Ever since TPM came out in '99, it was obvious that Sidious and Palpatine were the same guy. They were played by the same actor and Darth Sidious even dressed like Palpatine did in the OT. The kids from Drew McWeeny's Film Nerd 2.0 series watched the Star Wars films in Machete order (including TPM) and did not realize who Darth Sidious was until the middle of RotS: Drew McWeeny, Attack of the Clones review posted:One of the questions that is driving them both crazy concerns the identity of Darth Sidious. They know he's the Emperor, but they are also sure that he's someone else in the movies, and they can't figure out who it might be. I'm amazed that the "secret" works for them, because when I look at Sidious in the final scene of the film, it's pretty clear to me that it's McDiarmid under the cowl. The boys haven't figured it out, though, and when we went through all the possible suspects after the film and I brought up Senator Palpatine, they didn't even blink. He's just that "nice old guy" who helps Anakin in this one, and they've got no clue he might be connected in some way. http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/motion-captured/posts/film-nerd-2-0-yoda-seals-the-deal-for-attack-of-the-clones-on-blu-ray Drew McWeeny, Revenge of the Sith review posted:One of the many questions that Toshi and Allen asked me right after we watched "Attack Of The Clones" last week was about the identity of Darth Sidious. I told them that he was in the movies without his face covered up, but they didn't know who it was. And they were shocked at the mere suggestion. Toshi hasn't puzzled it out, and as much as I can't imagine not knowing, they don't know. They have no idea what's coming in this movie we're about to watch, and I realize that it's going to be a genuine jolt when it happens. http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/motion-captured/posts/film-nerd-2-0-revenge-of-the-sith-devastates-the-kids-as-anakin-falls-from-grace Film Nerd 2.0's Star Wars series is a good read if you're interested in children's perspectives on the film saga. Five-year-old Toshi and three-year-old Allen go on an emotional roller coaster and their dad brings you along for the ride.
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Sep 18, 2015 19:20
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SirPhoebos posted:Well please enlighten us as to what makes the prequels worthwhile, rather than just standing there being smug about being above peer pressure. The groupthink consists of posts like this one and Gammatron 64's one in response, where you define me as an enemy fitting a particular box, of being a Marxist and a bourgeois elitist, a whole mess of contradictions that boil down to elitism on your part, about how much better you are than some other subforum. This is also exactly how the Stalinist show trials operated. Of course, the other half of this is the normalization, such that nobody blinks an eye at posts like those. Clearly, this thread is becoming quite insular.
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Sep 18, 2015 19:29
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Shut the gently caress up and gently caress off back to CineD.
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Sep 18, 2015 19:33
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I didn't see the prequels at the theater. When I finally watched them at home the part in the third one where that shapeshifter gets shot by Fett scared the hell out of me because the sound blasted out of the little surround speaker over my right shoulder. So kudos to whomever did the surround mix. It's rare I hear separation that good. 
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Sep 18, 2015 19:38
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Arcsquad12 posted:Shut the gently caress up and gently caress off back to CineD. 
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