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Glad you've come to realize that gun owners do not trust Democrats, nor ever will. That's just the way things are, and until the law changes the NRA runs the show on American gun culture.
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Oct 2, 2015 15:45
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Nonsense posted:Glad you've come to realize that gun owners do not trust Democrats, nor ever will. That's just the way things are, and until the law changes the NRA runs the show on American gun culture. The single issue gun owner isn't voting for Democrats anyway because of brown immigrants or because the president is a Muslim or some other batshit insane silliness. They don't need their trust.
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Oct 2, 2015 15:47
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Grundulum posted:Please please tell me this actually happened in one of the issues. I've had enough poo poo today in my Facebook feed that I could use some cheering up. Is not an exact quote but pretty closely paraphrased from the Adam West movie.
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Oct 2, 2015 15:50
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Most SA gun evangelists claim to be Democrats they just say borderline murderous things about a sitting woman Senator from the Democratic Party every chance offered.
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Oct 2, 2015 15:51
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mcmagic posted:The single issue gun owner isn't voting for Democrats anyway because of brown immigrants or because the president is a Muslim or some other batshit insane silliness. They don't need their trust. Alas, we have had multiple goons say they believe in climate change, immigration reform, gay marriage, etc. but they voted Republican because guns.
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Oct 2, 2015 15:51
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Nonsense posted:Most SA gun evangelists claim to be Democrats they just say borderline murderous things about a sitting woman Senator from the Democratic Party every chance offered. Hillary's not sitting anymore.
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Oct 2, 2015 15:52
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So though the names of the victims haven't been released yet, what has leaked is that the 7 wounded were all women. Which is an odd coincidence unless he was targeting them.
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Oct 2, 2015 15:53
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Dead Reckoning posted:That's a really poor explanation for the NRA and other pro-Second Amendment groups' ability to get out the vote. Their war chest is small potatoes compared to most lobbies, but their members are known for showing up at the polls. A lobby financed by firearm and ammo manufacturers wouldn't be a blip on the Washington circuit. Guns are more important than lives in America
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Oct 2, 2015 15:54
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Nonsense posted:Most SA gun evangelists claim to be Democrats they just say borderline murderous things about a sitting woman Senator from the Democratic Party every chance offered. Go to a union meeting in a red state and you see the same dynamic at play. Cultural issues way over ride economic or association ones, which is a lot of how the GOP is so strong there.
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Oct 2, 2015 15:56
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I actively vote against my own interests as a gun owner because I align with the democratic party when it comes to pretty much everything else.
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Oct 2, 2015 15:56
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Fried Chicken posted:So though the names of the victims haven't been released yet, what has leaked is that the 7 wounded were all women. Which is an odd coincidence unless he was targeting them. Typical beta-male.
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Oct 2, 2015 15:56
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Trabisnikof posted:Alas, we have had multiple goons say they believe in climate change, immigration reform, gay marriage, etc. but they voted Republican because guns. I know there are people like that on here but they are a special kind of complete moron and don't really make up any relevant portion of the electorate thankfully.
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Oct 2, 2015 15:58
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In other news, someone tried to burn down the Planned Parenthood office in Thousand Oaks, California: http://www.ppactionca.org/news/arson-at-thousand-oaks.html The one black guy who lives in the city among the swarm of WASPs is quoted as saying "Wow that's pretty hosed up man."
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Oct 2, 2015 16:04
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LeeMajors posted:Typical beta-male. I see they got to your avatar. Mercury_Storm posted:In other news, someone tried to burn down the Planned Parenthood office in Thousand Oaks, California: Obviously it was carried out by a true patriot 
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Oct 2, 2015 16:06
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Blue Footed Booby posted:That were a couple where an armed guy heading into a building full of people were stopped by a guy with a gun. you know they've done studies on this whole idea, it turns out the absolute worst thing you could do is try shooting the guy because you'll probably end up shooting more innocent people because it turns out that the averge schmoe with a gun is not john mcclane in a moment of sheer panic, also it increases your chance of being dead because now they're shooting at you, specifically
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Oct 2, 2015 16:10
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CommieGIR posted:I see they got to your avatar.  that won't go toward cheap ammo, I reckon.
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Oct 2, 2015 16:10
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DarkCrawler posted:Ok this is the Second Amendment: Going to poke in here with a small history lesson that may explain this a bit better. "The following are taken from the Oxford English Dictionary, and bracket in time the writing of the 2nd amendment: 1709: "If a liberal Education has formed in us well-regulated Appetites and worthy Inclinations." 1714: "The practice of all well-regulated courts of justice in the world." 1812: "The equation of time ... is the adjustment of the difference of time as shown by a well-regulated clock and a true sun dial." 1848: "A remissness for which I am sure every well-regulated person will blame the Mayor." 1862: "It appeared to her well-regulated mind, like a clandestine proceeding." 1894: "The newspaper, a never wanting adjunct to every well-regulated American embryo city." The phrase "well-regulated" was in common use long before 1789, and remained so for a century thereafter. It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected" The reasoning was that it takes a long time to properly teach someone how to shoot, and it requires constant practice. It's like Golf, not like Riding a Bike. The problem was, that so many people simply couldn't shoot, so when called up for military service, you wound up with rather lackluster performance. This isn't just something dealt with during Revolutionary times, either. During the Civil war, northern generals were appalled at the quality of their own troops compared to the quality of southern troops - Southern troops, largely being poor folk who hunted for sustainence, could handle a rifle REALLY WELL, because they'd been doing it for years, or they'd go hungry. Northern troops, largely came from cities, and never had any experience using a gun. After the war was over, a group of Northern generals decided "Hey, let's start promoting riflery and shooting so in case this poo poo ever happens again, we've got people who know how to use the drat things already". And so they created the National Rifle Association. Fast-forward 50 years to after the spanish-american war and world war 1: Same poo poo, Different War. American troops from the south could shoot, but northerners were pretty bad at it. The NRA was helping a bit with this but the government decided "You know what? This is a recurring problem. Maybe it's because guns are too expensive for most folks to buy, how about we subsidize it by selling off our old Kragg's really dirt cheap and get people into rifle matches?" and thus the Civilian Marksmanship Program was launched. Both are still around, the NRA has kinda morphed into a political monster for the republican party due to a lot of history that could take pages to write about, but the CMP is still doing it's thing - if you join any CMP related shooting activity, you can get surplus rifles shipped directly to your door. So, with that context in mind, and the dictionary definitions above, take another look at the amendment: " A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." Now, who has the right to keep and bear arms? and why? Compare and contrast that with a similarly structured sentence: "A well-educated electorate, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed." Who has the right to keep and read books? and why? It's stuff like this (The evolving meaning of words) that got me into etymology to begin with. "Guy" is another fascinating one - it's gone from describing someone who dresses like a slob and acts like an rear end, to being an average person, in a very short amount of time. All that aside, We *CAN* regulate (using the more modern meaning here) firearms without restricting the people's right to keep and bear them. The problem is that as usual, extremists have hijacked the conversation, so it's pretty much turned into one side wanting to ban as much as possible, or make things as onorous as possible for owners without regard for if they'd actually be an effective piece of legislation, and the other side who wants to open carry their AR-15 to kindergarten. I'm of the belief that the single most effective piece of legislation we could introduce would be adding handguns to the NFA registry. However as a political reality, you'd have to write in some quid-pro-quo's to appease the more right-wing on the issue and assure them it's not just a plan to eventually close the registry or confiscate them once registered. Something like removing the LEO signoff requirement (many LEO's refuse to sign any NFA items no matter what, many only sign off for their friends and donors, or reserve them for political favors), and re-opening the closed registry, would probably be enough, and neither would have an impact in weapons being misused. (NFA items simply aren't used for crimes, people who take the time and effort to jump through the hoops etc etc, and people have been bypassing LEO sign-offs with trusts for decades, again, people who take the time to jump through legal hoops aren't the type to go on a spree killing or get involved with gang warfare). This wouldn't even violate the Heller decision, and would very strictly control handguns, which are the vast majority of misused firearms. (Violation of NFA stuff is a FEDERAL offense). That's my take on it, anyways.
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Oct 2, 2015 16:10
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Literally The Worst posted:you know they've done studies on this whole idea Edit: I have journal access if you have a title.
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Oct 2, 2015 16:11
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From a few pages back, but it wouldn't surprise me. I didn't consider the details but things like the odd "religious liberty" question and phrasing it as a matter of "conscientious objection" sure seemed oddly timed and strangely misinformed about the whole Davis situation that I have been wondering if it was a setup by someone or other for political aims.
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Oct 2, 2015 16:12
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Nonsense posted:Most SA gun evangelists claim to be Democrats they just say borderline murderous things about a sitting woman Senator from the Democratic Party every chance offered. Very few people here like Feinstein and if they do they shouldn't, she's terrible on a wide range of issues whether or not you like her positions on guns.
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Oct 2, 2015 16:13
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fknlo posted:Anyone have a source on this? Can't seem to find one. This tweet is the thing I'd read earlier; I haven't seen the interview in question, though, so I can't speak to its veracity. fakeedit: After further looking around, here's a ThinkProgress piece that embeds the video.
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Oct 2, 2015 16:13
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Literally The Worst posted:you know they've done studies on this whole idea, it turns out the absolute worst thing you could do is try shooting the guy because you'll probably end up shooting more innocent people because it turns out that the averge schmoe with a gun is not john mcclane in a moment of sheer panic, also it increases your chance of being dead because now they're shooting at you, specifically It also ignores what happens if there TWO Good Guys With Guns and who do they fire at in a chaotic situation when all three people are firing and how do you know who the bad shooter is. The fact that we have politicians advocating vigilantes as a solution for spree shooters is absolutely insane, especially since it rarely, if ever, works the way it's supposed to.
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Oct 2, 2015 16:13
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Nonsense posted:Glad you've come to realize that gun owners do not trust Democrats, nor ever will. That's just the way things are, and until the law changes the NRA runs the show on American gun culture. In a nutshell, that's why the talk about preferring social programs is hollow. Never mind that Feinstein is among a fringe on the gun issue and the mainstream wants a better-controlled sales/transfer system, occasionally calling for unenforceable mag size limits. Never mind that a party running on social progress would be passing social programs first anyway. The choice between "no change to the purported social root causes" and "change to the social root causes with a non-zero-but-not-a-given chance to address the proliferation of small arms in the US" always gets answered with preference for the former. The implication is that the world can burn as long as they keep a 30-rd mag in their Bushmaster.
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Oct 2, 2015 16:16
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Radish posted:It also ignores what happens if there TWO Good Guys With Guns and who do they fire at in a chaotic situation when all three people are firing and how do you know who the bad shooter is. The fact that we have politicians advocating vigilantes as a solution for spree shooters is absolutely insane, especially since it rarely, if ever, works the way it's supposed to. No, but see I'm John loving Wayne because I'm really good at shooting stationary paper targets at a leisurely pace in a controlled environment with eye and ear protection.
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Oct 2, 2015 16:16
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Business wing of the GOP gearing up to nuke the conservative wingquote:The U.S. Chamber of Commerce plans to shatter its previous political spending records during the 2016 elections in a campaign aimed not only at defeating Democrats but also at winning back the soul of the Republican Party.
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Oct 2, 2015 16:18
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FAUXTON posted:Never mind that a party running on social progress would be passing social programs first anyway. Do you live in the same America I do or some kind of parallel America where the Democrats aren't worthless shitbags concerned only with stroking the cocks of their corporate paymasters?
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Oct 2, 2015 16:19
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I remember back in college a dude went off the deeper end and starting shoot at people. The good guy with the gun came to the rescue and got himself shot. Afterwards police determined that he did absolutely nothing but get himself shot as the perpetrator later shot himself.
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Oct 2, 2015 16:20
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LeeMajors posted:No, but see I'm John loving Wayne because I'm really good at shooting stationary paper targets at a leisurely pace in a controlled environment with eye and ear protection. I have a co-worker that thinks he will be able to run out to his car to grab his gun then come back in and save the day if we have a shooting at my job. DemeaninDemon posted:I remember back in college a dude went off the deeper end and starting shoot at people. The good guy with the gun came to the rescue and got himself shot. Afterwards police determined that he did absolutely nothing but get himself shot as the perpetrator later shot himself. This reminds me of the guy that tried to stop those Tea Party shooters and while he was sneaking up on the man, his girlfriend snuck up on him and shot him. TWO SHOOTERS!? That's just not fair.
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Oct 2, 2015 16:20
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DarkCrawler posted:Ok this is the Second Amendment: As I see it, if you're not serving in the national guard reserve, you don't get to own a gun, because you're not part of a well regulated militia.  Also, I want a pony, and lasting peace in Israel and Palestine.
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Oct 2, 2015 16:22
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Radish posted:I have a co-worker that thinks he will be able to run out to his car to grab his gun then come back in and save the day if we have a shooting at my job. They did this test in Texas where they setup a scenario simulating a workplace shooting. Not a one of the concealed carry guys were able to stop him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QjZY3WiO9s There are a couple others. But, basically, casual range shooters are never going to have the same reaction speed as an undercover cop or a SWAT member. And then you have the recent incident where a Good Guy with a Gun shot a carjacking victim instead of the Carjacker, and then tried to cover it up and fled.
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Oct 2, 2015 16:22
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Mister Macys posted:As I see it, if you're not serving in the national guard reserve, you don't get to own a gun, because you're not part of a well regulated militia. Ponies are assholes don't wish for a pony
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Oct 2, 2015 16:23
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Radish posted:I have a co-worker that thinks he will be able to run out to his car to grab his gun then come back in and save the day if we have a shooting at my job. I think at least 60% of the gun obsession is due to the potential hero complex. I would never accidentally kill a family member after hearing a strange noise in my house. I would never accidentally leave my gun accessible to a child or criminal. I would never turn my firearm on my spouse in the heat of an argument. I would never accidentally shoot the victim while intervening in a situation. I would never panic in a hail of gunfire and bloodshed. It's pretty consistent with the faux machismo that permeates US conservative culture. I would never accept food stamps, I'd grow a garden or work eight part time jobs.  It's dumb. Big Dumb Politics. And we have idiots foaming at the mouth to support/perpetuate it.
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Oct 2, 2015 16:24
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Mister Macys posted:national guard reserve TBQH we're probably all better off the fewer guns loving Guardsmen are allowed to touch. If the Army could find some way to inflict the National Guard on America's enemies we'd never lose another war.
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Oct 2, 2015 16:25
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quote:“We’re all wearing down our knee pads praying he’s the nominee,” Reed says of Grayson. 
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Oct 2, 2015 16:30
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Fried Chicken posted:So though the names of the victims haven't been released yet, what has leaked is that the 7 wounded were all women. Which is an odd coincidence unless he was targeting them. Did anyone see anything to that effect in his 4chan thread? I only got so far in before it started looking too much like a games thread.
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Oct 2, 2015 16:31
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Rent-A-Cop posted:How would that work? Be in the reserves 2 days a month? As long as you go every other weekend, you get to buy and keep firearms more dangerous than a bolt-action rifle. When you retire/quit, you have to sell them. I like to think of it as an indirect way of registering crazies with the state.
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Oct 2, 2015 16:32
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CommieGIR posted:They did this test in Texas where they setup a scenario simulating a workplace shooting. There was also a test at some college, the study wasn't rigorously scientific but the shooter won every time- because they already had the gun out and were aiming it long before the heroic concealed carry could get their guns out.
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Oct 2, 2015 16:33
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Mister Macys posted:As long as you go every other weekend, you get to buy and keep firearms more dangerous than a bolt-action rifle. When you retire/quit, you have to sell them. Nelson Mandingo posted:the study wasn't rigorously scientific but
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Oct 2, 2015 16:33
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Hmm yes this is a well considered opinion we should all join the National Guard Reserve, an organization with a proud history. Why track guns when you can just track the owners much more easily.
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Oct 2, 2015 16:35
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Mister Macys posted:Why track guns when you can just track the owners much more easily.
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Oct 2, 2015 16:36
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