AusPol November: "love your neighbour, unless they're brown"

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > AusPol November: "love your neighbour, unless they're brown"

«‹›67 »

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

This cruel island.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 00:24

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 11, 2024 15:16

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

Solemn Sloth posted:

Also Turnbull is getting rid of knights and dames. Smart move, makes idiot swing voters and labor voters caught up in the cult of mal think he is undoing Abbotts damage without doing anything to the policies which actually gently caress up the country and world.

here's a question I'm having trouble with, auspol friends: who should be against the wall first; swing voters, the lnp, or the alp? there are compelling arguments for all 3.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 00:25

Zenithe: Feb 25, 2013; _{Ask not to whom the Anidavatar belongs; it belongs to thee.}

BBJoey posted:

here's a question I'm having trouble with, auspol friends: who should be against the wall first; swing voters, the lnp, or the alp? there are compelling arguments for all 3.

Full wall equality now.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 00:27

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

wall building as a Keynesian public works program... mate, I like your thinking.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 00:32

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

Swing voters imho. Smug bastards who think they're ahead of the curve by waiting to see which party shoves a middle class pork barrel straight up their rear end.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 00:33

Vladimir Poutine: Aug 13, 2012

Australian swing voters are the most racist people in the southern hemisphere, barring maybe some group of fat Boer Pride guys circling the drain somewhere in South Africa one glass of Carling Black Label away from death.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 00:34

Solemn Sloth: Jul 11, 2015; Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

Vladimir Poutine posted:

Australian swing voters are the most racist people in the southern hemisphere, barring maybe some group of fat Boer Pride guys circling the drain somewhere in South Africa one glass of Carling Black Label away from death.

idk I find a lot of the real racist south africans left the country and moved to perth.

As to who is first against the wall? Just turn the whole continent to glass.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 00:39

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

I don't think this thread can get any more depressing.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 00:42

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

Anidav posted:

I don't think this thread can get any more depressing.

just wait until november passes without any interesting events occuring

# ? Nov 2, 2015 00:43

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

It's good to know that the reason we're getting rid of knights and dames is because they aren't modern enough.

open24hours fucked around with this message at 10:02 on Nov 2, 2015

# ? Nov 2, 2015 00:52

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

what malc should introduce to keep in line with his innovation push is "Baes" and "On Fleeks".

# ? Nov 2, 2015 00:57

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

open24hours posted:

It's good to know that the reason we're getting rid knights and dames is because they aren't modern enough.

Agile sharing futuristic economic growth!

# ? Nov 2, 2015 01:01

Birb Katter: Sep 18, 2010; BOATS STOPPED
CARBON TAX AXED
TURNBULL AS PM
LIBERALS WILL BE RE-ELECTED IN A LANDSLIDE

BBJoey posted:

what malc should introduce to keep in line with his innovation push is "Baes" and "On Fleeks".

What about fam, that seems like a totes solid title to get.

> Malc Daddy made me fam the other day.

>> Amazeballs

> Yeah, it's fully sick

# ? Nov 2, 2015 01:07

MaliciousOnion: Sep 23, 2009; Ignorance, the root of all evil

Birb Katter posted:

What about fam, that seems like a totes solid title to get.

> Malc Daddy made me fam the other day.

>> Amazeballs

> Yeah, it's fully sick

totes

# ? Nov 2, 2015 01:10

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

I think fully sick is even more outdated than knights and dames.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 01:10

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

halfway into raise GST by 15% and chill and he gives you this look

# ? Nov 2, 2015 01:10

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

Tony Abbott used slogans that made the Australian people feel the same.

Malcolm Turnbull uses slogans that make the average Australian feel smart.

God help us all in this futuristic new economic system that is agile and allows the flower shop to open on Sunday because penalty rates are outdated and unflexable.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 01:12

Les Affaires: Nov 15, 2004

Regarding knights and dames, from the AFR story:

quote:

In a statement released Monday morning, Mr Turnbull, a republican, said the awards were not appropriate in modern Australia and that the Queen had agreed with his government's recommendation to remove the titles of knights and dames from the Order of Australia.

Not only did cabinet agree unanimously that knights and dames were out of date for Australia, but the queen agreed too.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 01:48

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

The Queen favours an agile economy.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 01:54

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Les Affaires posted:

Regarding knights and dames, from the AFR story:

Not only did cabinet agree unanimously that knights and dames were out of date for Australia, but the queen agreed too.

Of course the Queen agrees. If she didn't she wouldn't Queen for long.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 01:55

Solemn Sloth: Jul 11, 2015; Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

open24hours posted:

Of course the Queen agrees. If she didn't she wouldn't Queen for long.

She has managed to stay on another 40 years after involvement in a coup against a democratically elected australian government so I don't think knights and dames was going to be the tipping point m8

# ? Nov 2, 2015 01:57

Les Affaires: Nov 15, 2004

open24hours posted:

Of course the Queen agrees. If she didn't she wouldn't Queen for long.

Either way, Prince Philip can be all "gently caress you, got one's" about his knightship.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 01:58

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Solemn Sloth posted:

She has managed to stay on another 40 years after involvement in a coup against a democratically elected australian government so I don't think knights and dames was going to be the tipping point m8

Is there anything to substantiate that?

# ? Nov 2, 2015 02:05

hooman: Oct 11, 2007; This guy seems legit.; Fun Shoe

Les Affaires posted:

Either way, Prince Philip can be all "gently caress you, got one's" about his knightship.

Pretty sure if you're a prince you don't give a single poo poo about some backwater knightship you got granted by a huge idiot.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 02:06

Solemn Sloth: Jul 11, 2015; Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

open24hours posted:

Is there anything to substantiate that?

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...023-gkhb1a.html

quote:

John Kerr decided to remove Gough Whitlam in the week before the Dismissal and was in secret discussion about this with Malcolm Fraser.

This is the most explosive revelation of a new book that throws in doubt the 40-year-old claim that the Governor-General acted alone.

Monash University political scientist Jenny Hocking said new research showed Kerr acted with the foreknowledge and implied consent of the Queen, and with the knowledge of the Chief Justice of the High Court of Australia Sir Garfield Barwick, High Court justice Sir Anthony Mason and the Leader of the Opposition to oust a democratically elected government.

She said the West Australian Liberal senator Reg Withers had left a posthumous record of communications between Kerr and Fraser in a previously unpublished interview conducted two decades after the dismissal and embargoed until after his death.

"Withers reveals that not only had Kerr decided to act against Whitlam in the week before 11 November 1975, but that both he and Fraser knew this," Professor Hocking said.

"Withers confirms that the Governor-General and the Leader of the Opposition were in secret telephone contact, using their secure private numbers.

"Withers recounts that he was in Fraser's office in early November when Kerr contacted Fraser, using the private number for the Leader of the Opposition's parliamentary office.

"'Nobody knew what his private number was except Tamie'," Withers said.

"Fraser told the caller that he could be contacted on that number at any time ... Fraser then asked the caller for their number, repeating as he wrote it down, 'I can also ring you on his number?.... As Fraser hung up he said to Withers. 'You never heard this conversation'."

Professor Hocking said the secret communication was the most serious possible breach of the central constitutional and political relationship in a parliamentary democracy that the Governor-General acts on the advice of the Prime Minister, not the Opposition Leader.

Whitlam died a year ago last Wednesday, Fraser last March, and Professor Hocking's book, The Dismissal Dossier: Everything You Were Never Meant To Know About November 1975 comes out on the eve of the 40th anniversary of what many people still believe to be the biggest political crisis in Australian history.

In another revelation from a long-embargoed interview, Fraser challenges our fundamental understanding of the dismissal of the Whitlam government in relation to the question of Supply.

"It now appears that the very basis of Whitlam's dismissal, and Fraser's appointment, as Prime Minister � the need to secure Supply � was a constitutional and political charade," Professor Hocking said.

"In this previously unpublished interview Fraser makes the extraordinary claim that the provision of Supply was not in fact a condition of his appointment as Prime Minister at all." Fraser makes this devastating admission in his interview conducted in 1987 with former Labor Minister Clyde Cameron for the National Library of Australia that has only recently been made available. "Asked specifically whether the provision of Supply was a condition of his appointment as Prime Minister, Fraser replied without any hesitation, 'No, it wasn't'.

"In a further dramatic historical unravelling Fraser then revealed that, even had he not secured Supply through the Senate on the afternoon of 11 November 1975, Kerr would not have dismissed him as Prime Minister and that he would have gone to the 1975 election as Prime Minister, without Supply. A shocked Clyde Cameron drew out the implications of this startling exchange in his immediate response to Fraser: 'You would have gone to an election without Supply, and you would have been in breach of one of the conditions that Kerr had laid down.' Fraser did not disagree with this, suggesting that the Coalition might even have won a few more seats had he done so.

"Despite Kerr's insistence that securing Supply was at the heart of the dismissal, Fraser maintained that his own failure to secure Supply would not have led to his dismissal and that Kerr would not have dismissed him for a denial of Supply as he had dismissed Whitlam: 'I don't think the Governor-General would have had much other course � I think it would have been a little difficult sacking a second (laughing) Prime Minister and re-appointing the first one sacked'."

Professor Hocking said that Kerr's private papers clearly show that the Palace knew that Kerr was considering the dismissal months before it happened. The Palace did not counsel Kerr against the dismissal scenario, did not advise him to warn Whitlam of the possibility of dismissal and, most significantly, did not themselves alert Whitlam to the fact that the matter had been raised by the Governor-General.

She said the Queen's private secretary Martin Charteris had also written to Kerr establishing a "secret arrangement" between the Palace and Yarralumla to delay acting on the advice of the Prime Minister to recall the Governor-General, should Whitlam have decided to remove Kerr.

"This extraordinary vice-regal manoeuvring presents Whitlam as a political ingenue, utterly unaware that among those he considered nothing more than post-colonial monarchal relics, his future was being determined with all the calculated anti-democratic sentiment of monarchs through the ages," she said.

In her 2012 book, Gough Whitlam: His Time, Professor Hocking revealed the critical document in Kerr's private papers describing the pivotal role that High Court Justice Sir Anthony Mason had played in advising Kerr over several months prior to the dismissal, although he remained a shadowy presence in the political crisis for four decades.

In response, Sir Anthony has said he told Kerr he should warn Whitlam before terminating his commission and the first he knew that Whitlam had not been warned was when he read the news reports on November 11.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 02:13

Negligent: Aug 20, 2013; Its just lovely here this time of year.

Dame Quentin Bryce, aka Bill Shortens mother in law

# ? Nov 2, 2015 02:14

Dude McAwesome: Sep 30, 2004; Still better than a Ponytar

hooman posted:

Pretty sure if you're a prince you don't give a single poo poo about some backwater knightship you got granted by a huge idiot.

Especially if you're already a "Lord High Admiral," jfc I didn't even know that was a thing till I googled Prince Phillip.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 02:15

MysticalMachineGun: Apr 5, 2005

According to Sunrise there were some rumours of a February (Valentine's Day they said specifically) election so Turnbull could take his budget to the polls rather than more than likely do another bad budget and get killed later. Anyone hear anything concrete about this?

# ? Nov 2, 2015 02:16

Dude McAwesome: Sep 30, 2004; Still better than a Ponytar

Solemn Sloth posted:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...023-gkhb1a.html

also lmao at the title 'political scientist'

I am a scientist studying the most noble of sciences: politics

# ? Nov 2, 2015 02:17

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Solemn Sloth posted:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...023-gkhb1a.html

It's not that I think he's lying, but wouldn't something like that be a bigger deal than it apparently is? If the Queen really was interfering in Australian affairs then it would be a fairly powerful argument for ditching her. I'd have thought the republicans would be all over it.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 02:17

Negligent: Aug 20, 2013; Its just lovely here this time of year.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 02:20

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

open24hours posted:

It's not that I think he's lying, but wouldn't something like that be a bigger deal than it apparently is? If the Queen really was interfering in Australian affairs then it would be a fairly powerful argument for ditching her. I'd have thought the republicans would be all over it.

have you considered the possibility that the vast majority of australians are fuckwits who don't understand the most basic political concepts let alone the implications of unelected foreign monarchs meddling in the affairs of a democratically elected government?

ie Negligent Is Right

# ? Nov 2, 2015 02:23

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

I have considered that but it doesn't seem like it would make a difference. You only need one or two people to make an issue of it to get it investigated.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 02:25

Birb Katter: Sep 18, 2010; BOATS STOPPED
CARBON TAX AXED
TURNBULL AS PM
LIBERALS WILL BE RE-ELECTED IN A LANDSLIDE

MysticalMachineGun posted:

According to Sunrise there were some rumours of a February (Valentine's Day they said specifically) election so Turnbull could take his budget to the polls rather than more than likely do another bad budget and get killed later. Anyone hear anything concrete about this?

JBish said today that the government was going to go full term and I think Feb is too early for a full election so that sounds super unlikely.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 02:25

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

Jumpingmanjim posted:

Oh god the new three word slogan is work, save, invest because we can't treat voters like adults.

Also surely a GST hike would reduce demand somewhat. Not good when we are heading for recession.

You know that you are being sold a pup when one of the 'reasons' we need it is to address bracket creep. Speaking of creeps, here's Scott Morrison saying just that:

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/scott-morrison-on-changes-to-the-gst/6904106

quote:

Scott Morrison on raising the GST Monday 2 November 2015 7:42AM (view full episode)

Momentum is building to increase the GST to 15 per cent, with revelations Treasury is drawing up a number of reform options for the Turnbull Government. Senior Liberal figures are urging the Prime Minister to release proposals to lift and/or broaden the tax, including compensation for lower and middle income earners, well ahead of next year's election.

Labor, however, remains flatly opposed to any change.

Federal Treasurer Scott Morrison joins Fran Kelly on RN Breakfast.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-02/gst-hike-would-raise-130b-modelling-shows/6903782

quote:

Government would raise $130b if GST was broadened, raised to 15pc, PBO modelling shows AM By political reporter Naomi Woodley Updated about 3 hours ago

The Federal Government would raise $130 billion in 2017-18 if it increased the GST to 15 per cent and dramatically broadened the tax base, according to new figures from the Parliamentary Budget Office (PBO).

Key points:

Adopting a New Zealand-style GST would raise $130 billion in 2017-18
Change would see GST raised to 15pc, tax base broadened
Nationals MP David Gillespie says change could allow for inefficient taxes to be cut
Nationals MP David Gillespie asked the PBO to model a New Zealand-style GST after it was suggested to him by his constituents in northern NSW as a way to help end funding disputes between the Federal Government and states and territories.

"It's not part of a coordinated program, I just got off my butt and did this myself, because I want my people in the Lyne electorate to get their voices heard in Canberra," Dr Gillespie told the ABC's AM program. "We should discuss a lot of these issues upfront and centre with the electorate and tell them the options, and tell them what the problems are." The current 10 per cent GST has a range of exemptions, including basic food, health and education services, but in New Zealand, it covers a much larger share of consumption. "They seem to be going from strength to strength in their economy*," Dr Gillespie said. "They have it at 15 per cent, we have it at 10 per cent."

Inefficient taxes abolished in return for GST hike: Gillespie

Dr Gillespie said the PBO calculated that changing the GST to a New Zealand-style model would generate $65.6 billion in additional revenue in the 2017-18 financial year, bringing the total revenue to more than $130 billion. He said that, in turn, could pay for a range of benefits requested by his community. I'm not advocating just a tax grab. We've got to put our income taxes down, our small business taxes down, we have to fund roads and infrastructure in the regions more," Dr Gillespie told AM.

People put their lives and souls into small businesses and to be paying payroll tax and high company tax defeats the purposes of all their efforts. David Gillespie "In my part of the world, I have an awful lot of pensioners and people on low fixed incomes and there will be a [consumer price index] increase with this, so we need to compensate them, and increase the base rate of their pension." If the Government adopted Dr Gillespie's plan, it would represent a radical restructure of the way the Commonwealth interacts with the states and territories. Dr Gillespie said in return for the increased revenue from the GST, funding agreements between the Commonwealth and the states and territories worth about $50 billion could be abolished, and inefficient state taxes should also be cut. His suggestions include reducing personal income tax, abolishing state payroll tax and cutting the small business tax to 25 per cent.

Tough decision for Bill Shorten

A popular Prime Minister leading a party praised for its economic management wants to have a national conversation about expanding the GST. This leaves the Opposition Leader in an invidious position, writes Paula Matthewson. "We do have big challenges in our federation, but everyone wants the incentive to work harder and not be taxed, so bracket creep is an issue," he said. "People put their lives and souls into small businesses and to be paying payroll tax and high company tax** defeats the purposes of all their efforts." The Federal Treasury has already modelled a series of changes to Commonwealth taxes like the GST, and is now doing similar work on state taxes as part of the Government's policy development through the federal and tax white papers. In a statement, Treasurer Scott Morrison said they were looking for "the best mix of options that are going to encourage jobs growth and economic growth". Dr Gillespie said state and territory leaders should be attracted to his plan because it would give them a "reliable funding stream".

Speaking from Papua New Guinea during his tour of the Pacific, Opposition Leader Bill Shorten said he was prepared to fight the Government if it moved to increase the GST. "I don't believe reform in this country should have to be paid for by people paying extra in their GST, I think there are other ways of making this nation function better," Mr Shorten said.

Well gently caress me, assault that with half a wet noodle Mr Shartenfreuden.

* Is the NZ economy really one we should be copying? http://www.forbes.com/sites/jessecolombo/2014/04/17/12-reasons-why-new-zealands-economic-bubble-will-end-in-disaster/

That's bond yield.

From http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/research_and_publications/speeches/2015/6012526.html

This whole remove inefficient taxes by applying another inefficient regressive tax song is one I've heard before and yet the inefficient taxes remain.

**

from http://taxreview.treasury.gov.au/content/Paper.aspx?doc=html/publications/papers/report/section_5-07.htm Note where exemplar NZ is on that graph (hint it's got a higher corporate tax rate). You have to go to truly bizarre metrics like corporate tax revenue as a proportion of GDP before Australia gets anything like to the right of the distribution and even then NZ is further to the right (of the graph).

None the less. The new Australian Nazi party will romp in the next election even as they push a huge increase on GST down the throats of a credulous public.

:toot:

# ? Nov 2, 2015 02:29

Nibbles!: Jun 26, 2008; TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

make australia great again as well please

If you're going to raise the GST and then compensate those under x income why don't you just...... raise taxes on those earning over x income?

Most likely as it will be easier to rip the compensation away later.

Also the rational for the GST in the first place was that it was going to replace a bunch of other taxes, like stamp duty, and instead just became another area of revenue for the federal government to hold over the states.

Nibbles! fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Nov 2, 2015

# ? Nov 2, 2015 02:37

hooman: Oct 11, 2007; This guy seems legit.; Fun Shoe

Nibbles! posted:

If you're going to raise the GST and then compensate those under x income why don't you just...... raise taxes on those earning over x income?

Most likely as it will be easier to rip the compensation away later.

Exactly this.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 02:45

Negligent: Aug 20, 2013; Its just lovely here this time of year.

VAT is highest in countries like Sweden, Norway and Denmark (25%). Malcolm Turnbull is actually a closet socialist.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 02:46

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

open24hours posted:

I have considered that but it doesn't seem like it would make a difference. You only need one or two people to make an issue of it to get it investigated.

ok two questions.
1: who are the people with the power to start an investigation?
2: what these people stand to gain from such an investigation?

e: to answer my own questions because I don't mean to look like a combative wanker;

1: the LNP or the ALP. obviously, the LNP doesn't want to start an investigation, they're deeply embroiled in the scandal. if the ALP starts making noise about this, they're opening themselves to attacks about being stuck in the past over something that's done and settled, why don't they focus on the current day, they should sort out the skeletons in their own closet etc. if they have any sense they'll recognise that this will be an effective attack vector from the right-wing media.
2: even if by some chance an investigation is started (perhaps malc is just really obsessed with republicanism to the point that he's willing to sacrifice part of his party's integrity?), what happens? it's shown that buckingham palace, kerr and fraser were colluding to oust whitlam. the majority of the public doesn't give a poo poo. republicanism gains some support but in the long term it doesn't mean much. overall it's been a use of political capital and time for barely any result.

BBJoey fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Nov 2, 2015

# ? Nov 2, 2015 02:48

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 11, 2024 15:16

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

I was thinking more like Four Corners or something like that.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 02:59

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > AusPol November: "love your neighbour, unless they're brown"

«‹›67 »