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Post about European (mainly EU but not only) politics ITT. Please remember to leave your sexism, racism, etc. at the doorstep. modedit: new rule: no fascism allowed!!! Somebody fucked around with this message at 09:56 on Mar 7, 2016 |
# ? Mar 7, 2016 07:56 |
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# ? Apr 28, 2024 22:30 |
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Ground zero. But for me it's mainly just: No more ODing on identity politics please, unless we deliberately want to create another shitswamp. So, I caught some chatter over Yahoo news about an announcement coming today. Lots of interesting stuff, like a European coastguard supposedly being in the making, maybe a rework on a Brusslles-centered immigration application process, that would include all of the EU as opposed to the previous one, that stated you have to apply for asylum in the EU country you arrive in (which Merkel gladly undermined). And other things too, like officially declaring the current Balkans route closed in conjunction or right before that. Thoughts? Links to more in-depth articles than I can see in the short time, before I have to leave? CrazyLoon fucked around with this message at 08:49 on Mar 7, 2016 |
# ? Mar 7, 2016 08:46 |
CrazyLoon posted:Ground zero. Such a change would require treaty change so it's not more than a thought experiment by the EC at the moment. Moreover it would introduce a huge moral hazard, where the frontier countries no longer need to secure their borders, or to be more precise, no longer have an economic incentive to do so, which would increase the influx of immigrants into the EU. I guess if at some future point the EU has an EU border guard, which has full authority to operate in the whole EU without getting hosed over by countries claiming their national sovereignty is violated or by the EC who change the rules on the fly to suit their political agenda of the day, then such a system could work. But in that alternate reality pigs are flying anyway. As for the summit, here is what they will agree on today https://twitter.com/BrunoBrussels/status/706752098050940928 Congratz to Austria-Hungary, they have won in Europe for the first time in over a century. Habsburg supremacy on the rise again? PS: Exactly what I predicted after Merkels interview last week happened, Berlin is now officially endorsing the closure of the Macedonian/Greek border. GaussianCopula fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Mar 7, 2016 |
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 09:17 |
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There is a summit in Smyrna/Izmir today that these proposals are related to. We'll see what comes out of it. Identity politics are fine as long as they are in relation to European politics, and as long discussion is kept civil and does not derail everything else.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 09:23 |
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GaussianCopula posted:PS: Exactly what I predicted after Merkels interview last week happened, Berlin is now officially endorsing the closure of the Macedonian/Greek border. So what are the chances of the "collective responsibility" actually meaning anything? Will Berlin push for "sharing the burden" or will it suffice to just throw more money at Greece?
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 09:26 |
YF-23 posted:There is a summit in Smyrna/Izmir today that these proposals are related to. We'll see what comes out of it. Please stop using your Revanchist names for all your neighbors, maybe not being hostile to them would improve your own situation, just a hint. But what kind of summit is that? Rappaport posted:So what are the chances of the "collective responsibility" actually meaning anything? Will Berlin push for "sharing the burden" or will it suffice to just throw more money at Greece? They are implementing the resettlement plan for 160k at the moment, with Portugal and France having taken a few refugees tonight. Other than that there might be some resettlement directly from Turkey if Turkey plays ball and the number of refugees that arrive in Greece drop drastically. If that does not happen, we will see. GaussianCopula fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Mar 7, 2016 |
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 09:26 |
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GaussianCopula posted:Please stop using your Revanchist names for all your neighbors, maybe not being hostile to them would improve your own situation, just a hint. But what kind of summit is that? IIRC it's the EU-Turkey summit on immigration that was postponed after a terrorist strike in Turkey a couple weeks back.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 09:37 |
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GaussianCopula posted:They are implementing the resettlement plan for 160k at the moment, with Portugal and France having taken a few refugees tonight. Other than that there might be some resettlement directly from Turkey if Turkey plays ball and the number of refugees that arrive in Greece drop drastically. If that does not happen, we will see. I don't speak German so sorry if these questions are dumb; there was noise some time ago that Merkel is facing heavy criticism for her "open arms" rhetoric, has something changed in the German political landscape that'd drive the push for distributing refugees into the EU? Finland is currently having a poo poo-show with our internal politics and no one is discussing the refugee crisis, but it doesn't seem like the issue has become any less controversial.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 09:41 |
YF-23 posted:IIRC it's the EU-Turkey summit on immigration that was postponed after a terrorist strike in Turkey a couple weeks back. Nope, that's in Brussels too. Rappaport posted:I don't speak German so sorry if these questions are dumb; there was noise some time ago that Merkel is facing heavy criticism for her "open arms" rhetoric, has something changed in the German political landscape that'd drive the push for distributing refugees into the EU? Finland is currently having a poo poo-show with our internal politics and no one is discussing the refugee crisis, but it doesn't seem like the issue has become any less controversial. Well the far-right populists of the "Alternative für Deutschland", who a lot of people believed to be dead early last summer, when they decided to switch from being an anti Euro bailout party to being outright racists, rose like Phoenix from the ashes and just yesterday was the 3rd biggest party in the municipal elections in Hesse with around 13%. There are 3 important state elections next week, and it looks like they might even beat the SPD in one or two of those states. Will that drive a push to distribute refugees across the EU? I don't think so, because the current alternative is keeping them in Greece. There is no way that the refugees that are already in Germany are going to get distributed and no one is even entertaining that idea, so I'm not sure how a distribution plan would help the situation in Germany. GaussianCopula fucked around with this message at 09:47 on Mar 7, 2016 |
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 09:41 |
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GaussianCopula posted:Nope, that's in Brussels too. My bad, it looks like the thing I was referring to is a Greco-Turkish thing that will take place tomorrow.It remains relevant in the context of the refugee crisis and Tsipras and Davoutoglu will meet so it's something to keep in mind.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 09:49 |
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GaussianCopula posted:Well the far-right populists of the "Alternative für Deutschland", who a lot of people believed to be dead early last summer, when they decided to switch from being an anti Euro bailout party to being outright racists, rose like Phoenix from the ashes and just yesterday was the 3rd biggest party in the municipal elections in Hesse with around 13%. There are 3 important state elections next week, and it looks like they might even beat the SPD in one or two of those states. Thanks for your patience Okay, so what are the not-racist parties suggesting? Presumably they'd want to isolate the openly racist party representatives even if they win elections. Are there any (not racist) ideas about what should happen with the refugees already in Germany?
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 09:54 |
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Rappaport posted:Are there any (not racist) ideas about what should happen with the refugees already in Germany? I'd assume house them, educate them, and employ them. Have you actually looked at the different parties' ideas yourself?
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 10:29 |
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Aliquid posted:I'd assume house them, educate them, and employ them. Have you actually looked at the different parties' ideas yourself? I admit to being a lazy goon, but it seems simpler to have a distilled version of what the various parties are saying rather than trying to wade through whatever gobbledygook they've bothered to translate on their websites for us non-Germans I'm sorry if my inefficient behaviour angers and or saddens you, friend, but I'm simply trying to hear what the man on the street in Germany thinks is going on! Housing, educating and employing people sound like good ideas, but it would be helpful if something a bit more detailed was on offer. There's fairly substantial unemployment in Finland, for example, and while even I am dimly aware that Germany is doing much better on the economic front, there are still questions of language and cultural barriers, systematic racism and so forth. Right? So how do the folks who aren't calling for FULL SCALE HITLER want to tackle these problems? Much of the discussion in Finland, for example, has been revolving around how many folks we can ship back out of Europe, and I'm curious if the not-racist parties in Germany have a more pro-active mindset.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 10:46 |
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Rappaport posted:I admit to being a lazy goon, but it seems simpler to have a distilled version of what the various parties are saying rather than trying to wade through whatever gobbledygook they've bothered to translate on their websites for us non-Germans I'm sorry if my inefficient behaviour angers and or saddens you, friend, but I'm simply trying to hear what the man on the street in Germany thinks is going on! All parties except for the AfD and the National Socialists are behind Merkel right now. Refugees from Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq have a very high chance to receive asylum and if they stay for three(?) years, they will get permanent residence. Integration assistance varies a lot. People are getting everything from free entrance to public pools to free language courses. A lot of the support is from NGOs, so there is not a single system with a single approach for the entire country.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 11:02 |
waitwhatno posted:All parties except for the AfD and the National Socialists are behind Merkel right now. Refugees from Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq have a very high chance to receive asylum and if they stay for three(?) years, they will get permanent residence. If they stay for three years they will get permanent asylum, which can be revoked as soon as the reason for their asylum is no longer given.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 11:04 |
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GaussianCopula posted:If they stay for three years they will get permanent asylum, which can be revoked as soon as the reason for their asylum is no longer given. We already had this discussion in the Germany thread, remember? http://www.bamf.de/DE/Migration/AsylFluechtlinge/Asylverfahren/Rechtsfolgen/rechtsfolgen-node.html The Niederlassungserlaubnis/"Permit to settle" is permanent and unconditional, as the name suggests.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 11:18 |
waitwhatno posted:We already had this discussion in the Germany thread, remember? quote:Nach den drei Jahren wird eine unbefristete Niederlassungserlaubnis erteilt, wenn das Bundesamt für Migration und Flüchtlinge der Ausländerbehörde mitgeteilt hat, dass die Asylberechtigung bzw. die Flüchtlingsfeststellung nicht zu widerrufen oder zurückzunehmen ist. Ein Widerruf oder eine Rücknahme der positiven Entscheidung kann auch später noch erfolgen, wenn die Voraussetzungen hierfür vorliegen; die Entscheidung darüber liegt (sofern keine schwerwiegenden strafrechtlich relevanten Gründe vorliegen) im Ermessen des Bundesamtes. Highlighted the relevant part for you.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 11:24 |
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GaussianCopula posted:Highlighted the relevant part for you. Losing your refugee status does not mean that you automatically lose the niederlassungserlaubnis. This is the strongest type of residence permit that we have and it is given to people to put down permanent roots in the country. It can't just be revoked at will and without good reason. That would be extremely hosed up.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 12:30 |
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I want to discuss feminism
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 13:00 |
waitwhatno posted:Losing your refugee status does not mean that you automatically lose the niederlassungserlaubnis. This is the strongest type of residence permit that we have and it is given to people to put down permanent roots in the country. It can't just be revoked at will and without good reason. That would be extremely hosed up. It can be revoked if you are getting it solely based on your refugee status. quote:Einem Ausländer, der seit drei Jahren eine Aufenthaltserlaubnis nach § 23 Absatz 4 besitzt, ist eine Niederlassungserlaubnis zu erteilen, es sei denn, es liegen die Voraussetzungen für eine Rücknahme vor. https://dejure.org/gesetze/AufenthG/26.html
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 13:15 |
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Friendly Humour posted:I want to discuss feminism Do you want to discuss feminism in the context of European politics? Then this is the thread for you! Do you want to discuss feminism in a more general context? Then I'm afraid this is not the thread for you.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 13:21 |
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YF-23 posted:Do you want to discuss feminism in the context of European politics? Then this is the thread for you! Do you want to discuss feminism in a more general context? Then I'm afraid this is not the thread for you.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 13:31 |
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R. Mute posted:How can you discuss feminism in the context of European politics without wandering into feminism in a more general context? Especially considering the types that frequent this thread. Maybe you can start a feminism megathread (because that won't be awful at all), and we can use this thread for discussing current events in European / EU nations?
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 13:39 |
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R. Mute posted:How can you discuss feminism in the context of European politics without wandering into feminism in a more general context? Especially considering the types that frequent this thread. If I had to think of specific categories, I'd say you can discuss feminism in the context of current European events, in the context of the current status quo in parts of Europe, and in the context of European history. Further discussion can stray from those contexts as conversation develops into more general ones, but one of these has to be the catalyst for it, and ideally the more general discussion will remain relevant in the more specific context. If it's not, then we probably have a derail which should have its place in a different thread.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 13:41 |
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In a totally unforeseeable move, Sultan Erdogan has sprung some last-minute demands on the EU negotiators and is saying he will scupper the refugee deal if they don't comply: http://www.ft.com/fastft/2016/03/07/turkeys-last-ditch-demands-threaten-migrant-deal/quote:Turkey has made a host of last minute funding and political demands that threaten to derail a controversial EU-Turkey deal to dramatically reduce migrant flows to Europe.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 13:47 |
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And in yet more totally unforeseeable news, the Greek economy keeps on cratering and who knows what the end will be! quote:[Grexit back on the agenda again as Greek economy unravels A cratering economy with bad advice and a flood refugees that are being barred inside the country; what could possibly go wrong?
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 13:53 |
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The new EC gun policy update seems to have faced heavy resistance from, unsurprisingly, countries that are high in in gun ownership, with Finland being somewhat a special case because they rely on their reserve training with their personally owned guns. The directive aims to ban most guns that are semi-automatic or bear resemblance to military rifles, most normal hunting weapons would remain the same as far as I know. Now however, the reasons for this ban seem really absurd, as it is claimed to be aimed to curb terrorist access to weapons, where the recent terrorist attacks on Europe used illegal weapons. Some people say that this will be an issue in Brexit as well, trying to use it as leverage to either go through with the ban or UK leaves. The news only ever mention opposition to the ban but I'd like some goon opinions as well. For me personally I do welcome policies that would secure weapons from terrorists but this is a really rear end backwards way of doing it, where it only punishes the legal gun owners and why would you ban anything based on how it looks anyway? EDIT some news sources http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/05/news/gun-control-europe-new-laws/ http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-15-6111_en.htm Patrocclesiastes fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Mar 7, 2016 |
# ? Mar 7, 2016 14:16 |
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It seems as if this is an issue better left to the member states. The Finns and the Swiss (I know, not an EU member) seem to do pretty well despite heavier weapons being more common than in other states. I don't know what's the problem for the Brits, who are sitting smug on their island with near total control of their borders.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 14:24 |
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I don't know why the Brits should care about laws restricting guns when they banned private ownership under new labour.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 14:34 |
Riso posted:I don't know why the Brits should care about laws restricting guns when they banned private ownership under new labour. They don't want anyone to own weapons, therefore stricter weapons for the whole EU.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 14:37 |
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R. Mute posted:How can you discuss feminism in the context of European politics without wandering into feminism in a more general context? Especially considering the types that frequent this thread. Just keep focused on a particular issue that fits the European politics context. For example, instead of discussing women quotas in general, you can discuss this in particular. Just my two eurocents.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 14:48 |
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LemonDrizzle posted:In a totally unforeseeable move, Sultan Erdogan has sprung some last-minute demands on the EU negotiators and is saying he will scupper the refugee deal if they don't comply: http://www.ft.com/fastft/2016/03/07/turkeys-last-ditch-demands-threaten-migrant-deal/
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 15:02 |
Breaking news update on the chips front: https://twitter.com/StefanLeifert/status/706843958710804481
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 15:19 |
In more important news, six ~17-45 year old men from Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan have molested young girls in swimming bath in Cologne. http://www.faz.net/agenturmeldungen/dpa/maenner-sollen-kinder-in-schwimmbad-unsittlich-beruehrt-haben-14111055.html
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 16:51 |
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GaussianCopula posted:In more important news, six ~17-45 year old men from Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan have molested young girls in swimming bath in Cologne. "I'm going to flee oppression to Europe only to get myself kicked out doing illegal poo poo while making all other refugees look bad" Good job guys, good job.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 16:59 |
CommieGIR posted:"I'm going to flee oppression to Europe only to get myself kicked out doing illegal poo poo while making all other refugees look bad" They most likely won't get kicked out because you are not allowed to send people to their death.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 17:02 |
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GaussianCopula posted:They most likely won't get kicked out because you are not allowed to send people to their death. Well, spend time in prison then.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 17:38 |
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GaussianCopula posted:In more important news, six ~17-45 year old men from Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan have molested young girls in swimming bath in Cologne. how dare you post this here, you racist? do you not know that for integration to suceed, we must pretend refugees are civil, lawabiding people who respect women and children, against all of reality? clearly you vote NPD. pfui. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 17:41 |
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Velkest posted:how dare you post this here, you racist? Shut the gently caress up.
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 17:42 |
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# ? Apr 28, 2024 22:30 |
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Velkest posted:we must pretend refugees are civil, lawabiding people who respect women and children, against all of reality?
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# ? Mar 7, 2016 17:44 |