|
Confusion posted:http://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent-business/county-news/british-hover-craft-boss-joins-leave-campaign-97076/ This doesn't matter, the UK-citizens tend to be wrong about everything anyway, the worse she argues the higher the chance the UK-population agrees with her. In a few weeks we can celebrate when the fabulous land of Greater Great Britain finally boots itself out of the EU and we real Europeans can start reforming this mess.
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 20:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 23:10 |
|
|
Sorry Belgium, but it seems like you can't get no respect anywhere. People have already been saying you are well on your way to becoming the world’s most prosperous failed state, but it can always get worse. Enter Trump: Should have never left the United Kingdom of the Netherlands, I think. (picture stolen from Joementum, here).
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 21:28
|
|
|
LemonDrizzle posted:
What is with the randomly highlighted towns?
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 21:32
|
|
|
I would guess either areas with a high muslim concentration, or areas where the polls were conducted.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 22:02
|
|
|
Pluskut Tukker posted:Sorry Belgium, but it seems like you can't get no respect anywhere. People have already been saying you are well on your way to becoming the world’s most prosperous failed state, but it can always get worse. Enter Trump:  never change, donald. Never change.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 22:11
|
|
|
a pipe smoking dog posted:What is with the randomly highlighted towns? Those are enclaves of Sharia law.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 22:23
|
|
|
I dunno, it highlights Frankfurt, which as any Clearly this map is to promote further pussification of the West in order to subvert our culture in favour of Homoislam.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 22:34
|
|
|
Real answer: It's the locations of terrorist attacks by islamists. In France, Montauban and Toulouse are the attacks by Mohammed Merah while Paris is the Charlie Hebdo and Hypercacher attacks. Joue-les-Tours was an attempted stabbing and Dijon was a motorist who plowed into a crowd and isn't considered a terror attack anymore IIRC. The map is from before the attacks in Paris last November, I think.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 22:37
|
|
|
Woolwich was Lee Rigby, but what about Frankfurt?
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 22:39
|
|
|
Woolwich is a... bit of a weird one to pick out for the UK then.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 22:40
|
|
|
It's the 2011 Frankfurt Airport shooting Edit: Not sure why London and Madrid aren't on the map either. Maybe it's only attacks that happened since 2010.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 22:41
|
|
|
Libluini posted:In a few weeks we can celebrate when the fabulous land of Greater Great Britain finally boots itself out of the EU and we real Europeans can start reforming this mess. I don't know, my friend, is the UK the real problem? I really want to know how you think the reforms should go. And this question is twofold, that is, I am asking both in terms of where it should go and how are you going to get the EC on board. I mention that last part because article 289 of the Lisbon treaty makes it so that only the executive branch, ie. the European Commission, can introduce legislation. All reform, thus, depends on an unelected body. How do you see it working?
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2016 08:28
|
|
|
Dawncloack posted:I mention that last part because article 289 of the Lisbon treaty makes it so that only the executive branch, ie. the European Commission, can introduce legislation. All reform, thus, depends on an unelected body. How do you see it working? Appointed by a Commission, acting under instruction from member states expressed in strategic decisions. Governments in parliamentary republics are unelected (and illegitimate?) as well, going by this measure. More importantly, consider how the legislative process works past the introduction of a bill. The Commission can really only be said to wield any power if its legislation gets adopted. In order to achieve that, it must comply with the majority opinion of both the Parliament and the Council. So a Commission acting as an independent principal with no regard for the interest of the whole institutional framework composed of elected representatives would be actually a very, very week actor, since nothing it would propose would get accepted. Furthermore, once a bill is proposed, the Commission becomes more of a consultative body, while the Parliament and the Council get several options to propose amendments, including a committee reconciliation which is the ultimate instrument in shaping any legislation under the ordinary legislative procedure. Really, everything depends on the institutions that have the last say in a political process, not on the initiating institution, so the Commission is utterly trumped in the current EU legislature.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2016 08:45
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2016 09:31
|
|
|
Dawncloack posted:I don't know, my friend, is the UK the real problem? To be fair, I have no idea. This is why I go to elections to elect people I hope know more about this. Representative Democracy! On the UK, didn't they enter the EU just to gently caress with France and Germany? Our media here in Germany is kind of torn, I've seen articles calling Great Britain the blockers and saboteurs of the European idea and articles begging Great Britain to stay. Because reasons. Personally, I'm sad to see a country leave the European Union, but with the UK blocking every reform effort and having all these special snowflake demands to sabotage us, I think it's for the best they leave.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2016 11:37
|
|
|
Libluini posted:To be fair, I have no idea. This is why I go to elections to elect people I hope know more about this. Representative Democracy!
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2016 11:47
|
|
|
forkboy84 posted:No, they didn't join the EEC just to gently caress with France & Germany. France kept the UK out of the EEC for years because De Gaulle wanted to stick to fingers up at Britain but that was about it. OK, I may have gotten that one British satire comedy episode mixed up with reality, but it's still rather interesting how Great Britain still has all those special demands. I think it's bad how the EU basically has to bow to Mega Britain every time they have another idea how to screw us over. My favorite fuckery is Thatcher's old EU-discount: Did you know thanks to Thatcher the UK has to contribute less then other nations? Since 1984 the UK can look at what they're paying to the EU, compare it to the agricultural subsidies they're getting and can get up to 2/3rds of the difference back. It's now 2016 and this discount is still there, just slightly less brazenly high! Stuff like this is why many people think the UK should just go back to doing their own thing. They obviously don't want to be part of a unified Europe. Edit: If you can read German or use Google translate, here is a larger list of British Special Snowflake Rules. After reading all that stuff they don't want I'm not even sure why the UK is in the EU right now. It certainly doesn't look they want to be a part of it. Libluini fucked around with this message at 12:03 on Jun 16, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2016 11:59
|
|
|
Libluini posted:many people think the UK should just go back to doing their own thing. They obviously don't want to be part of a unified Europe.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2016 12:01
|
|
|
If Remain wins, maybe the continent should just kick them out to be safe.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2016 12:06
|
|
|
Deltasquid posted:If Remain wins, maybe the continent should just kick them out to be safe.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2016 12:09
|
|
|
It looks like some Brexitians think they can just calmly ignore EU-rules for leaving the EU and just gently caress everything up while of course still cashing in EU-money for years. The EU has started to plan for the worst case. If this happens, the British Economy will be trashed. Hopefully this doesn't happen: Cameron has said if the Brexit wins, he will just go the normal way of the 2-year-exit as the EU-rules demand. Everything will be slowly untied and no-one has to suffer. It all depends on if Cameron can control the Brexit-faction after a victory, though. Stefan Kornelius from the Süddeutsche Zeitung has his own comment on this affair: Finally: The EU talks straight with the British
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2016 12:28
|
|
|
Libluini posted:My favorite fuckery is Thatcher's old EU-discount: Did you know thanks to Thatcher the UK has to contribute less then other nations? Since 1984 the UK can look at what they're paying to the EU, compare it to the agricultural subsidies they're getting and can get up to 2/3rds of the difference back. It's now 2016 and this discount is still there, just slightly less brazenly high! After Germany, the UK is the biggest net contributer to the EU budget. The above is dumb propaganda.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2016 13:07
|
|
|
Lagotto posted:After Germany, the UK is the biggest net contributer to the EU budget. The above is dumb propaganda. afaik net contributions yes, before any rebates or concessions are applied. It's like filing expenses, you pay X, but then get Y% back.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2016 13:12
|
|
|
awesome-express posted:afaik net contributions yes, before any rebates or concessions are applied. It's like filing expenses, you pay X, but then get Y% back. Sorry but I can't find data supporting this. Regardless, most of the EU is a net receiver of EU funds, the UK is a net payer. The UK leaving will directly cause a new budget gap.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2016 13:20
|
|
|
Lagotto posted:Sorry but I can't find data supporting this. Regardless, most of the EU is a net receiver of EU funds, the UK is a net payer. The UK leaving will directly cause a new budget gap. Then read my loving links, you dumb gently caress.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2016 13:23
|
|
|
awesome-express posted:afaik net contributions yes, before any rebates or concessions are applied. It's like filing expenses, you pay X, but then get Y% back. No. After. http://ec.europa.eu/budget/figures/interactive/index_en.cfm
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2016 13:24
|
|
|
Lagotto posted:After Germany, the UK is the biggest net contributer to the EU budget. Of course it is, it's one of the wealthiest member states and it it has the second biggest economy. But Germany, Sweden, the Netherlands, Austria, Finland and Belgium pay more on a per capita basis (source). I do think there's something to be said for the rebate since the EU's funding rules and spending arrangements would otherwise disadvantage the UK too much, but the rebate is in fact a deviation from the rules that's entirely fair to describe as 'fuckery'.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2016 13:29
|
|
|
Libluini posted:Then read my loving links, you dumb gently caress. What are you on about weirdo? Pluskut Tukker posted:I do think there's something to be said for the rebate since the EU's funding rules and spending arrangements would otherwise disadvantage the UK too much, but the rebate is in fact a deviation from the rules that's entirely fair to describe as 'fuckery'. I don't think it can make sense and ve fuckery at the same time. They are still paying more per capita then Austria for instance. (I thought so anyway but let me check your link) But my main point is that Libluini 's post is terribly unnuanced click bait hysterics.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2016 13:34
|
|
|
Libluini posted:To be fair, I have no idea. This is why I go to elections to elect people I hope know more about this. Representative Democracy! The UK has always pushed for (what became) the European Union to be a common market/neoliberal free trade zone and nothing else. They've pushed pretty hard for fast-paced enlargement and consistently opposed attempts at further integration. So they're really at odds with the original idea that was to become, eventually, a federal union of European nations. Lagotto posted:After Germany, the UK is the biggest net contributer to the EU budget. The above is dumb propaganda. According to that thing, if you look at "operating budgetary balance", it's France which is in second place after Germany. UK is third, followed closely by the Netherlands and Italy. For "revenue", if you look at "total national contribution", then it's Germany, France, Italy, UK, Spain, Netherlands. Cat Mattress fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Jun 16, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2016 13:36
|
|
|
Cat Mattress posted:The UK has always pushed for (what became) the European Union to be a common market/neoliberal free trade zone and nothing else. They've pushed pretty hard for fast-paced enlargement and consistently opposed attempts at further integration. So they're really at odds with the original idea that was to become, eventually, a federal union of European nations. Well, then I guess it's really good for the future of the European idea if the UK finally leaves. Though if the Brexit-supporters end up loving over the British economy thanks to their hairbrained ideas of leaving while continuing to pump the EU for money, I will laugh so hard.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2016 13:39
|
|
|
I imagine the future will be the UK eventually consuming itself in its own hubris and corruption, until eventually what remains is just a shattered 2nd world country, ignored and irrelevant, its once greatness consigned the history books. I say as a Brit who desperately wishes he was in Europe.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2016 13:44
|
|
|
WMain00 posted:I imagine the future will be the UK eventually consuming itself in its own hubris and corruption, until eventually what remains is just a shattered 2nd world country I don't think they're gonna join the Soviet Block?
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2016 13:48
|
|
|
Cat Mattress posted:I don't think they're gonna join the Soviet Block? No, but they're certainly going to emulate it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2016 13:51
|
|
|
Libluini posted:Well, then I guess it's really good for the future of the European idea if the UK finally leaves. Though if the Brexit-supporters end up loving over the British economy thanks to their hairbrained ideas of leaving while continuing to pump the EU for money, I will laugh so hard.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2016 13:57
|
|
|
Lagotto posted:What are you on about weirdo? It's not click bait, it is just a list of things the UK has pushed through to get themselves some nice gifts to the detriment of the EU, plus a political comment on the issue of the looming Brexit. If that counts as click bait, I guess you should stop watching news altogether. Also I'm well aware Great Britain is still a net contributor, that's not my point: They still have all those special wishes to gently caress us over. If you need tons of special gifts to keep someone in, you may be better off without them. According to this, the total expenditure for the UK places them on place 7 for the greatest contributors to the EU. Mostly thanks to that giant rebate reducing their total contribution. Without that rebate, they would place 3rd behind Poland and France. The UK-correction for 2014 was over 6 billion Euros. It's impressive though that after the revenue and the UK-rebate, there was still something like 4 billion € net contribution left. Good for them. Disclaimer: I'm bad at math, so if you want to be sure, use the link and go through the display options yourself.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2016 14:00
|
|
|
El Perkele posted:Please explain this scheme again because it sounds so crazy. It's so crazy it might even work! From the article I linked: quote:Die Frage ist, ob Cameron nach einem Debakel im Referendum in der Lage sein wird, dieses Versprechen einzulösen. Befürworter des Brexit haben schon angekündigt, sich mit dem Artikel 50 zunächst nicht abgeben zu wollen. Man solle doch erst einmal schauen, ob es nicht einen "informelleren Prozess" gibt, sagte der Fraktionschef der Konservativen im Unterhaus, Chris Grayling, der Financial Times. Leader of the Conservatives in the House of Commons, Chris Grayling, told the Financial Times he wants a more "informal process", instead of following EU-regulations for leaving the EU. He wants to dismantle EU-laws even before leaving the EU. Migration, trade politic, an old law from 1972 over transfering souvereignty to Europe, everything should be ignored even before the UK is out. For some reason he doesn't mention what happens to EU-subsidaries coming into Britain during the time where Britain ignores everything else, which has Brussels in a panic. Juncker's people have already made some legal examinations and are now fairly sure if Chris Grayling gets his way, they can just immediately suspend Britain's membership to prevent shenanigans. Of course when this happens, there will be a bad transition phase where for all intents and purposes, Great Britain will suddenly be unable to trade with any EU-member. Only a couple months at worst, probably. The British economy will still get hit hard, though. This is of course only the very worst possibility, everyone (except Chris Grayling) wants to prevent this, there are some more talks about this in the future.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2016 14:10
|
|
|
Libluini posted:Great Britain will suddenly be unable to trade with any EU-member. Only a couple months at worst, probably. The British economy will still get hit hard, though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2016 14:23
|
|
|
Lagotto posted:I don't think it can make sense and ve fuckery at the same time. They are still paying more per capita then Austria for instance. (I thought so anyway but let me check your link) But my main point is that Libluini 's post is terribly unnuanced click bait hysterics. I think this is a matter of cultural expectations. If you're (stereotypically) German, a persistent deviation from the rules for a special case may seem sacrilegious. But if you take a more pragmatic and transactional view of EU politics, recognizing that the single biggest item on the EU budget is of comparatively little direct benefit to the UK and that consequently the UK should not be expected to subsidize everybody else's agricultural sector on an ongoing basis may seem entirely sensible. Pluskut Tukker fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Jun 16, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2016 14:58
|
|
|
A Buttery Pastry posted:Britain won't be able to trade at all, or not able to sell its products to EU-members? I don't know, this has never happened before after all. At the very least be prepared for several months of massive confusion at the borders if the worst-case scenario happens.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2016 15:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 23:10 |
|
A Buttery Pastry posted:Britain won't be able to trade at all, or not able to sell its products to EU-members? Britain would be able to trade with EU-member the same as the US is doing right now, but the products would still have to be in line with EU regulations, which Britain would no longer be able to influence. More importantly though the ability to export services would be severely limited.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2016 15:08
|
|