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xrunner posted:What does your heart tell you? that you bought an avatar that many will get for free the end of this week. Trabisnikof posted:You really want to disenfranchise the 39% of blacks who say states rights was the primary cause of the civil war? Or is this just a "willingness to lie to get to vote" test and people are expected to give the "right answer" regardless of nuance? How dark is their skin?
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Jul 2, 2016 07:40
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Mr Hootington posted:that you bought an avatar that many will get for free the end of this week. So you're saying I'm a trendsetter, is what I'm hearing.
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Jul 2, 2016 07:49
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ComradeCosmobot posted:No, because voter initiatives in California can only be amended or repealed by other propositions (or in a court of law) unless explicitly indicated otherwise. The will of the people passed Prop 25 which seems to have been part of the reason things are on the mend, and the other being the D majority being made (via 25) capable of passing a proper loving budget instead of budgets consisting of garbage in order to garner 2/3 of the legislature?
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Jul 2, 2016 07:53
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Trabisnikof posted:You really want to disenfranchise the 39% of blacks who say states rights was the primary cause of the civil war? Or is this just a "willingness to lie to get to vote" test and people are expected to give the "right answer" regardless of nuance? By pure numbers it would disenfranchise far more whites numerically, and as a black person, if those black people don't know it was over slavery, I'm good on letting them vote. They would be a drag on the progress of black people.
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Jul 2, 2016 07:55
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In order to vote, people should prove that they have been educated by the peasant class. If you can't prove that you've worked as a migrant farmer for at least three years, you shouldn't be able to vote.
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Jul 2, 2016 08:10
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Mr Hootington posted:USPol: We need a fascist dictator who will gas those I do not like. Lowtax 2016.
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Jul 2, 2016 08:21
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KiteAuraan posted:Lowtax 2016. Leonard J Crabs will get to the bottom of Mr. Ben Ghazi's nefarious schemes in his tenure as Attorney General.
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Jul 2, 2016 08:42
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gfsincere posted:By pure numbers it would disenfranchise far more whites numerically, and as a black person, if those black people don't know it was over slavery, I'm good on letting them vote. They would be a drag on the progress of black people. And you realize that as soon as someone takes power who disagrees with your perfect conception of American politics and history they may change the test and force you to answer the socially acceptable answer or not vote right? We judge our laws not by how they would work under perfect conditions but under the abuse of humanity. It is an inane test that only disadvantages those already at a disadvantage. The idea that a mandatory voter test as implemented by America, would hurt whites more than minorities isn't backed by reality. Might as well require a loyalty oath for all the good it does.
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Jul 2, 2016 09:07
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KiteAuraan posted:Lowtax 2016. Why not. If he runs America as well as he runs this site, we'll probably be fine. I mean we survived Bush.
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Jul 2, 2016 09:20
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Trabisnikof posted:And you realize that as soon as someone takes power who disagrees with your perfect conception of American politics and history they may change the test and force you to answer the socially acceptable answer or not vote right? We judge our laws not by how they would work under perfect conditions but under the abuse of humanity. The whole "We must exclude people from voting who are beneath my intelligence!  " poo poo i'm seeing online in increasing numbers from some redditors, channers, SA posters, etc, etc, is really loving stupid.The simple fact that the people who post this poo poo haven't spent the ten seconds to think through what would happen when someone with less than pure morals got into power probably means they wouldn't even qualify to vote via the same loving test they're proposing.
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Jul 2, 2016 09:28
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SSNeoman posted:Why not. If he runs America as well as he runs this site, we'll probably be fine. I mean we survived Bush. I worked at the MSP where Lowtax hosts the site. Whenever there was server issues, he was actually a really nice guy about it and worked hand in hand with us to get things done. He's a night owl so most of his tickets would come in on my shift.
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Jul 2, 2016 09:30
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So we've established actually instating a votership test is a bad idea. But what's your personal metric? What could someone you know say that would make you think "holy poo poo, don't vote"? For me, it's the climate. If I were a single issue voter, that would be it. I doubt I'm alone, and that's why a lot of people feel like Bernie>Hillary>>>>>>>>>>everyone else>>>>>Trump.
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Jul 2, 2016 09:30
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FAUXTON posted:The will of the people passed Prop 25 which seems to have been part of the reason things are on the mend, and the other being the D majority being made (via 25) capable of passing a proper loving budget instead of budgets consisting of garbage in order to garner 2/3 of the legislature? Being able to pass a budget with a simple majority instead of 2/3rds has been great for California. And it's completely neutered the Republican minority since they can't hold the budget hostage every year. But we still require a 2/3rds majority to pass any taxes through the legislature, so any tax increases will have to go through ballot propositions for the foreseeable future. Which is dumb.
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Jul 2, 2016 09:41
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Edit: never mind
OtherworldlyInvader fucked around with this message at 10:13 on Jul 2, 2016 |
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Jul 2, 2016 10:05
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if you're in favor of restricting the franchise based on mental aptitude you're no different from the people who favor restricting it based on property, race, gender, religion or any other reason. you should probably reexamine your feelings about democracy, republicanism and civics. sorry
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Jul 2, 2016 10:35
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if people are voting stupidly, the answer isn't to take away the vote, the answer is to educate them better, always, every single time. this is so axiomatic I can't even believe a liberal american would think differently
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Jul 2, 2016 11:21
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Zas posted:if people are voting stupidly, the answer isn't to take away the vote, the answer is to educate them better, always, every single time. this is so axiomatic I can't even believe a liberal american would think differently How the hell did it take this long for the correct answer to pop up? If you think voters are dumb, educate them. But not in a condescending "bless your heart you stupid yokel, let me show you how retarded you are" way. Actually take time to digest their views and then figure out how to posit your views to appeal to some part of their ideology.
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Jul 2, 2016 12:35
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aBagorn posted:How the hell did it take this long for the correct answer to pop up? People have been saying that since the last thread. It's just that the same people (and sometimes with friends!) keep coming into the thread and being all "No, see, you don't understand the problem..." and basically repeat the same stupid idea over and over in one way or another.
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Jul 2, 2016 12:43
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and don't try to pass it off as a joke either, there's no attempt at a joke there. it's like racism and sexism, it's ideology so repulsive you have to hide it with the joke label
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Jul 2, 2016 12:50
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Zas posted:if you're in favor of restricting the franchise based on mental aptitude you're no different from the people who favor restricting it based on property, race, gender, religion or any other reason. you should probably reexamine your feelings about democracy, republicanism and civics. sorry I've seen and my family has seen democracy in action, and it seems really awesome if you're a white guy, but kinda sucks for everyone else when the majority of the people are actively making rules to gently caress you, so maybe its not as awesome as you guys think it is. Also 'just educate them!' works when people want to be educated, which we've seen is not the case in a lot of situations.
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Jul 2, 2016 12:51
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gfsincere posted:I've seen and my family has seen democracy in action, and it seems really awesome if you're a white guy, but kinda sucks for everyone else when the majority of the people are actively making rules to gently caress you, so maybe its not as awesome as you guys think it is. The only voter test we should institute is "do you believe in disenfranchising other citizens because they have bad opinions, y/n" IMO.
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Jul 2, 2016 13:11
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Even beyond the ethical problems, I'm just laughing that anyone could look at American history and think that a way to relieve oppression of a minority population is to restrict voting rights. Nope, that couldn't possibly backfire horribly, no way
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Jul 2, 2016 13:20
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:I'm just laughing that anyone could look at American history and think that a way to relieve oppression of a minority population is to restrict voting rights. Nope, that couldn't possibly backfire horribly, no way Considering some of the places i've heard that idea discussed that might actually be the point behind it. Just, you know, phrased in the same lovely dog whistle sort of ways. There's a nasty overlap with "keep the stupids out of my voting system" and "I think (insert group/minority here) cannot have a responsible say over their lives.". Hell, that was literally one of the multiple bullshit justifications given for things like literacy exams for the right to vote. And anyone that's read one of them knows that they were literally designed to make you fail no matter what answer you gave.
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Jul 2, 2016 13:22
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gfsincere posted:I've seen and my family has seen democracy in action, and it seems really awesome if you're a white guy, but kinda sucks for everyone else when the majority of the people are actively making rules to gently caress you, so maybe its not as awesome as you guys think it is. I actually don't mind people being against democracy so long as they're honest about it. I'm friends with both monarchists and radical communists. But the kind of liberal who wants to restrict the franchise honestly makes me sick. The theory behind the argument that stupid people shouldn't vote can be transposed almost effortlessly into forced sterilization and eugenics. Not in a slippery slope sense, it's because it's the same theory.
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Jul 2, 2016 13:23
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gfsincere posted:I've seen and my family has seen democracy in action, and it seems really awesome if you're a white guy, but kinda sucks for everyone else when the majority of the people are actively making rules to gently caress you, so maybe its not as awesome as you guys think it is. So we implement some kind of voter test that slashes the rolls down to those who really care + have a decent grasp on reality. This brings on a glorious age of unfucking government institutions, including education, which should bring almost everyone back into enfranchisement since they've now been properly instructed on basic science and historical truths. Nope. Not buying it. Every time it comes out that kids have done better than any previous generation on the SATs, older people just claim the test is easier and there's no real accomplishment. They'll do the exact same thing if too many people start passing the voting test, claim the system is being gamed somehow and we have to make it harder because reasons.
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Jul 2, 2016 13:30
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Right, representative democracy has a lot of very obvious flaws, no argument there, but in trying to 'solve' it people have a tendency to target the most disadvantaged members of society - women, ethnic minorities, people without property, the cognitively impaired, and most notoriously today, felons. It really sucks to see liberals buy into this.
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Jul 2, 2016 13:48
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aBagorn posted:How the hell did it take this long for the correct answer to pop up? But that doesn't prove how smart I am or punish those I dislike!
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Jul 2, 2016 13:51
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How about gun ownership=vote? Exercise one right and then the other.
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Jul 2, 2016 14:06
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Turns out Trump used to chill with the Lolita Express crew, and is getting sued for allegedly sexually abusing a 13 year old girl: http://www.snopes.com/2016/06/23/donald-trump-rape-lawsuit/ There's a bit of irony to be found here, becaue Bill Clinton also used to hang out with said crew and I've heard a lot of noise about that from Trump supporters.
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Jul 2, 2016 14:12
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Spoondick posted:Turns out Trump used to chill with the Lolita Express crew, and is getting sued for allegedly sexually abusing a 13 year old girl: What the hell is the Lolita Express crew?
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Jul 2, 2016 14:17
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DemeaninDemon posted:How about gun ownership=vote? Exercise one right and then the other. If you kill a man you get an additional vote.
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Jul 2, 2016 14:17
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fits my needs posted:What the hell is the Lolita Express crew? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein He had a private jet nicknamed The Lolita Express.
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Jul 2, 2016 14:20
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Kit Walker posted:If you kill a man you get an additional vote. Much like the Highlander there can only be one voter.
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Jul 2, 2016 14:28
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Crabtree posted:Much like the Highlander there can only be one voter. Spoiler alert! I haven't seen the new Purge movie yet. 
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Jul 2, 2016 14:40
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They do not really want an intelligence test. They are using it to sound reasonable. What they want is to ban white people from voting. Why even talk about an intelligence test? Just come out and embrace it.
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Jul 2, 2016 15:10
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Why don't we just find the one person best at making political decisions and then give only him all the power?
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Jul 2, 2016 15:12
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haveblue posted:Why don't we just find the one person best at making political decisions and then give only him all the power? I can expect your support in the 2024 election?
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Jul 2, 2016 15:15
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/749235486389043200
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Jul 2, 2016 15:20
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Jackson Taus posted:Quick reminder that robotic politician Mitt Romney fell for this poo poo. If someone who is generally sane and intelligent can fall for this, Trump's easy prey. Sure, Trump is purposefully surrounding himself with Yes Men who love the smell of his farts to a degree that is relatively unusual. However, considering you've got to be at least minimally all the way up your own rear end to think you should be the person to run the U.S., I'd be quite surprised if almost any candidate didn't fall for it. Even the most conscientious and self critical campaign is going to be staffed by believers, and those that aren't are going to be encouraged to drink the Kool Aid. I think in the last 30 or so years Dole is about the only Candidate from the two major parties to realize they didn't have a chance in hell before they started planning their sweet as gently caress victory party.
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Jul 2, 2016 15:36
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| # ? May 12, 2024 23:24 |
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I don't know why all these liberals are so mad about that Sheriff's Star 
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Jul 2, 2016 15:42
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