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Drifter
Oct 22, 2000

Belated Bear Witness
Soiled Meat

Yakmouth posted:

Thanos barely exists, sure. But the stones themselves were the primary MacGuffins in six of the fifteen films, and show up in another two. Infinity War may well end up being a bloated mess (fingers crossed that it doesn't), but if it fails it's not going to be because of a lack of set-up.
I see what you're saying, and I'm likely a bitter old man, but the Marvel films never needed a set up, since they're basically all self contained plots and characters. Infinity War never needed any mention of those stones in the previous movies, but Dr Strange gave a good example of a good 'stone' setup and what it was good for. I think Avengers also had an okay setup , what with the mind control stone with Loki and it being used. I don't remember what Captain America's stone was about. Guardian's stone was basically just a portable and reusable laser nuke, right? Was the Guardian stone Power?

Snowglobe of Doom posted:

Steve's main stance was taken from this speech in the comics (and paraphrases it a fair bit) but they had another character explain it to him in the movie:

A hero's words, and a villain's, at the same time.

Drifter fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Apr 17, 2017

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Strobe
Jun 30, 2014
GW BRAINWORMS CREW
Guardians of the Galaxy featured Power, yes. The one from Captain America was Space (see: opening massive portal over New York, and also Red Skull teleporting himself gently caress knows where).

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Snowglobe of Doom posted:

Don't forget that the incident in Sokovia was presented in the previous film as a massive victory for the heroes with some unfortunate but unavoidable losses .... but then in this film Tony makes the shocking discovery that a young upstanding American student also died in Sokovia during the fighting and that was apparently enough to completely change his perception of those events and make him want to sign the Accords.

I'm mostly kidding but the fact that the filmmakers felt they had to introduce an American victim to the Sokovia fight in order to make audiences suddenly care about the loss of life there just came across as calculated and a bit gross.


Don't forget that Zemo's primary reason to destroy the Avengers is that his family died in Sokovia. I thought his righteous fury contrasted nicely with Tony's getting all misty-eyed because his weapons killed the wrong person again.

BravestOfTheLamps
Oct 12, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Lipstick Apathy
I watched Thor... and I think I can sum up my feelings about the movie in three pictures.

1: an unedited sequence




2: cosplayers in a dutch angle shot




3: Thor and Loki were born in 10th Century AD.

Yakmouth
Jan 20, 2016

The only way I can see Infinity Wars working is if Thanos wins big. Make the film all about him steamrolling the MCU. End the movie with him in charge of the universe. Then, in the second film (whatever they decide to call it), the good guys can regroup and take him down.

I in no way expect that to actually happen.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Quick, someone photoshop-replace Volstagg with Braun Strowman!

Drifter
Oct 22, 2000

Belated Bear Witness
Soiled Meat

Yakmouth posted:

The only way I can see Infinity Wars working is if Thanos wins big. Make the film all about him steamrolling the MCU. End the movie with him in charge of the universe. Then, in the second film (whatever they decide to call it), the good guys can regroup and take him down.

I in no way expect that to actually happen.

For thanos to win there would have to be human deaths.
I'm not sure how it'd work - I really feel like Infinity Wat will be a movie like an extended airport scene from Civil War. Like, the movie will tell us about the humungous stakes, but :shrug: Didn't the comic just take place on a moon or something with Earth Heroes just lining up to get chewed apart by Thanos?

achillesforever6
Apr 23, 2012

psst you wanna do a communism?

Snowglobe of Doom posted:

Steve's main stance was taken from this speech in the comics (and paraphrases it a fair bit) but they had another character explain it to him in the movie:

Isn't this also a Mark Twain quote?

Shageletic
Jul 25, 2007

Grendels Dad posted:

Quick, someone photoshop-replace Volstagg with Braun Strowman!

Everyone else is Triple H, the women of course are all Chyna.

Drifter
Oct 22, 2000

Belated Bear Witness
Soiled Meat









achillesforever6 posted:

Isn't this also a Mark Twain quote?

quote:

For in a republic, who is "the country"?
Is it the Government which is for the moment in the saddle? Why, the Government is merely a servant - merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them. Who then is "the country"? Is it the newspaper? Is it the pulpit? Is it the school superintendent? Why, these are mere parts of the country, not the whole of it; they have not command, they have only their little share in the command. They are but one in a thousand; it is in the thousand that command is lodged; they must determine what is right and what is wrong; they must decide who is a patriot and who isn't.
Who are the thousand - that is to say, who are "the country"? In a monarchy, the king and his family are the country; in a republic it is the common voice of the people. Each of you, for himself, by himself and on his own responsibility, must speak. And it is a solemn and weighty responsibility, and not lightly to be flung aside at the bullying of pulpit, press, government or empty catch-phrases of politicians. Each must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn’t. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide it against your convictions is to be an unqualified and inexcusable traitor, both to yourself and your country, let men label you as they may. If you alone of all the nation shall decide one way, and that way be the right way according to your convictions of the right, you have done your duty by yourself and by your country - hold up your head! You have nothing to be ashamed of.”

Yakmouth
Jan 20, 2016

Drifter posted:

For thanos to win there would have to be human deaths.
I'm not sure how it'd work - I really feel like Infinity Wat will be a movie like an extended airport scene from Civil War. Like, the movie will tell us about the humungous stakes, but :shrug: Didn't the comic just take place on a moon or something with Earth Heroes just lining up to get chewed apart by Thanos?

So Vision is probably dead -- one of the stones is planted right in his forehead. Captain America could be dead -- Evans' contract is running out and Steve Rogers' story has been pretty much told. Plus, this would be a good place to pass on the Captain America mantle to Bucky or Wilson is they plan on going that route. Kill off Hawkeye to raise the stakes of the film. I can't see Iron Man, Hulk, or Black Widow being killed off.

Strange, Parker, and Lang all have sequels post-Infinity Wars, so they're off the table.

Something that could possibly happen is to use Scarlett Witch as a 'House of M'-style take-back. She's got a thing for Vision, so when Thanos rips his head open to get the Mind Stone she can lose her poo poo and blow up reality -- resetting the timeline and acting as a soft-reboot to recast any characters whose actors' contracts have expired. If they're going that route they can kill off anyone or everyone beforehand 'cause it won't matter. But I think if Marvel tried that it would probably read as an rear end-pull deus ex machina since her power levels haven't been established as being that high in the films.

Disney has repeatedly said the MCU will never 'Go Dark' (whatever that means), but for this to be the capstone of a 19 movie franchise Thanos needs to come across as a threat qualitatively greater than everyone who's come before. We've already had Ronan and Malikith try to destroy the entire universe (and both be regarded as the weakest villains of the MCU), so what exactly does Thanos bring to the table that sets him above? He has to win. Without 'going dark'. Somehow.

I'm not sure how this movie will work either. I sure as hell hope it works, though.

Strobe
Jun 30, 2014
GW BRAINWORMS CREW
I bet it will have more to do with the Time stone than Scarlet Witch. Or maybe she gets her hands on the Time stone and shenanigans happens.

Drifter
Oct 22, 2000

Belated Bear Witness
Soiled Meat

Yakmouth posted:

I'm not sure how this movie will work either. I sure as hell hope it works, though.

My thinking was exactly like yours with regards to Scarlet Witch, but if she got her hands on a gem she'd be able to do stuff sorta similar...sorta. Her power is basically oneiropathy and telekinesis in the movies, right? They'll all be fighting in a dream version of a holodeck...Nightmare on Elm Street style. Haha.

If they rehash the exact same plot device from Dr Strange in Infinity War with the Time Stone that'd be pretty lame. Just magically wish things better, bah.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.

I hadn't thought about it until now but Thanos definitely has to come to Earth and rip Vision's head in half to get his last stone. Like, I'm picturing that (in a comic panel) in my head and even though its REALLY extreme for the MCU it would be an amazing gut punch BECAUSE its extreme for the MCU and go a long way towards establishing the stakes.

Like, I can see Infinity War playing out like:
Act 1: We see where all the divided Avengers are as Thanos is introduced and the Stones are overtly explained and connected to the audience.
Act 2: Thanos collects the Stones from the Nova Corp, Collector, and Asgard as Thor tries to protect them and rally the forces to stand against him.
Act 3: Thor arrives on Earth with the collected Avengers to protect the last stones as Thanos arrives. Fight ensues that ends with Strange losing his stone and Vision's death and Thanos getting the Gauntlet and taking control on a huge downer ending that the Avengers have to fight out of in the next movie.

Then I could definitely see Cap sacrificing himself in the second movie as the big emotional moment if they're ready to move past Evans and give the mantle to Bucky or Sam. So the 4th Avengers movie goes roughly:

Act 1: Establish's Thanos power and where the Avengers are
Act 2: Re-assemble the Avengers
Act 3: Rise up and defeat Thanos with Cap sacrificing himself.

A lot of that is speculative (especially with the Cap/Evans stuff) and how Thor: Ragnarok and Guardians V2 fit in could really help shape the path. But that does seem like the rough path for the Infinity Stones story told broadly throughout the MCU and the fallout of Civil War and Thor's bouncing around.

Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010

Slugworth posted:

'If we can't turn you/capture you, we'll kill you' really isn't a strange new concept in a film though. Like, you could get me on board if you said it was cliche, but I'm really not clear on how it's confusing/a plot hole.

It's not confusing or a plot hole, and I didn't say it was either. I said it messes up the flow of the scene.

You know how, in a Jackie Chan fight scene, the geography of the restaurant or rope factory or whatever is really clear? So that when Jackie grabs a chair and hits somebody with it, that chair was already prominent in the background of an earlier shot? And you don't go 'wait, was that chair always there?' Winter Soldier failed to do that on the level of everyone's motivation. Sure, I can reason out their plan (much like I would be able to reason 'yeah, sure, it's a restaurant, there are going to be chairs') but I'm doing that instead of wondering whether Cap can escape or overcome these bad guys.

It doesn't help that the choreography in Winter Soldier and Civil War relies on guys with guns walking towards people without guns, forgetting to shoot until they're in karate range, which really tends to leave one wondering what their plan was. It also doesn't help that the whole film series at this point carries less risk for any major characters than the opening spoiler of a tv show.

Drifter posted:

I see what you're saying, and I'm likely a bitter old man, but the Marvel films never needed a set up, since they're basically all self contained plots and characters. Infinity War never needed any mention of those stones in the previous movies, but Dr Strange gave a good example of a good 'stone' setup and what it was good for. I think Avengers also had an okay setup , what with the mind control stone with Loki and it being used. I don't remember what Captain America's stone was about. Guardian's stone was basically just a portable and reusable laser nuke, right? Was the Guardian stone Power?

A hero's words, and a villain's, at the same time.

Doctor Strange's use of the Infinity Stone is especially weird. This artifact of enormous power sits in a room full of artifacts, Strange picks it up, they discover he's been using it, and are just happy to have this dude carry it around for much of the movie until he remembers to use it.

Then again, it felt like a lot of that movie either wasn't filmed or was cut out.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!

Fun Shoe
I'd definitely expect a major character death in Infinity War. It seems like to not do that would really be a cop out just because of how much time that's been invested in this build-up. Evans is the likely candidate because of his contract situation, isn't he done after Infinity War? Unless they resign him of course. The same may be true of RDJ, I can't remember.

BravestOfTheLamps
Oct 12, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Lipstick Apathy
Thanos is going to capture the Avengers. He has an amusement park where all the rides are secretly cruel torture devices in which the Avengers are bound. While all the visitors are having a fun time, they unknowingly help in tormenting the Avengers. The Avengers scream, but the sights and sounds of Happyland hide their suffering.

Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010

Basebf555 posted:

I'd definitely expect a major character death in Infinity War. It seems like to not do that would really be a cop out just because of how much time that's been invested in this build-up. Evans is the likely candidate because of his contract situation, isn't he done after Infinity War? Unless they resign him of course. The same may be true of RDJ, I can't remember.

Remember when we expected that in Age of Ultron? And Civil War?

Yakmouth
Jan 20, 2016


This is exactly the movie I want, especially the part about the downer ending.

The problem is that A: I'm not convinced Disney would be willing to do it, and B: we know that Ant-Man and Wasp and Captain Marvel both happen between the two films. So however Infinity Wars ends, it has to leave things alone enough for those movies to happen.

...I suppose Thanos can take over the rest of the universe first, and the movie's stinger can be something like a close-up with him saying "Next stop, Earth". I dunno.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:
Evans definitely needs to die so that in the second movie he can reappear out of nowhere to bellow "Avengers Assemble!" just when all seems lost.

Also they need to have a scene at a critical moment where Turk Barrett is the only person able pick a particular type of lock for earth's mightiest heroes or something and have that be the only acknowledgement ever of Netflix Marvel.

I'm a little hopeful with them having a semi-downer ending after Rogue One. I know that's a different brand and it of course ends up a hopeful note because we know how the rest of the Star Wars movies turn out but it does straight up have every one of its main characters get executed/gunned down/vaporized, most of it in the last like fifteen minutes of the movie. I could see them banking on people knowing that like, obvious there's a second final Avengers movie happening so of course stuff will turn out alright, they can easily have Thanos completely own the MCU while still setting that up at the end.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.

Yakmouth posted:

This is exactly the movie I want, especially the part about the downer ending.

The problem is that A: I'm not convinced Disney would be willing to do it, and B: we know that Ant-Man and Wasp and Captain Marvel both happen between the two films. So however Infinity Wars ends, it has to leave things alone enough for those movies to happen.

...I suppose Thanos can take over the rest of the universe first, and the movie's stinger can be something like a close-up with him saying "Next stop, Earth". I dunno.

Is Disney really against it in a trilogy/2 parter kind of situation? It was awhile ago but the second Pirates movie ends on a big downer that sets up the third movie. I haven't seen the Star Wars movies but I get the idea that Rogue One does something similar. It would make sense to end Infinity War that way and build up the next one big. I can see Disney being cool with the idea as long as its a clear, overt, and successful sell for the next movie. And the MCU seems established enough to pull that with and trust that the next movie will be another blockbuster as long as Infinity War isn't a disaster.

Yeah, Captain Marvel and Ant-Man/Wasp makes that a little more complicated but we don't know how Captain Marvel fits into this world at all so that could be just about anything. It could be a prequel or they could establish her as a hero inside Thanos' control. Or she could be off on the Kree homeland getting powers. Do we have any insight into that movie at all?

Ant-Man/Wasp is a little more complicated since I assumed Ant-Man as one of the "Avengers", but I guess he doesn't have to be and it can just be a stand alone adventure. Maybe its even Scott and Hope going into the micro-verse (or whatever) to look for Janet, giving them an excuse to not be involved in any of the Infinity War stuff?

Jose Oquendo
Jun 20, 2004

Star Trek: The Motion Picture is a boring movie

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

Thanos is going to capture the Avengers. He has an amusement park where all the rides are secretly cruel torture devices in which the Avengers are bound. While all the visitors are having a fun time, they unknowingly help in tormenting the Avengers. The Avengers scream, but the sights and sounds of Happyland hide their suffering.

I know you're joking around, but that's Darkseid's thing. I really hope Synder can work this into his movies.

The Dave
Sep 9, 2003

I think Infinity War Pt. 1 will have a body count / depressing ending because it's going to tease the gently caress out of Pt. 2 that will undo all of it.

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013
🍀👽🆚🪖🏋

They aren't doing a two parter if I recall.

Yakmouth
Jan 20, 2016

CelticPredator posted:

They aren't doing a two parter if I recall.

They renamed the 4th Avengers film, so that it's no longer Infinity Wars Parts 1 and 2. But my understanding is that both are being shot simultaneously with the same writers and directors, so...

Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010

Yakmouth posted:

They renamed the 4th Avengers film, so that it's no longer Infinity Wars Parts 1 and 2. But my understanding is that both are being shot simultaneously with the same writers and directors, so...

And they come out a year apart.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.

It's not a two part movie but it's two Avengers movies released a year apart where the first one is bringing together the elements they've been teasing slowly through their movies for years. So there's every reason to believe it's still a direct continuation of Infinity War as it was presumably when it was named "Infinity War Part 2".

They changed the name and want to make clear it's two separate movies, but that shouldn't suggest they just scrapped the overall outline they've had for years.

All I think the name change really does is make it harder for us to reference to it when speculating. We should just nickname it something like "Avengers: Disassembled" or "Avengers: House of Thanks" or something.

John Wick of Dogs
Mar 4, 2017

A real hellraiser


Drifter posted:

Slither and Super are both amazing.


This just cracks me up. Like, vague offhand half-references in post credit scenes are driving anything. And I'm sorry, but Thanos in a Chair is hardly a lead up to anything. The past two movies maybe have some semi-related lead up to Infinity War...barely.

I think it was three... four years ago now when Thanos got out of his chair and said "Fine I'll do it myself"? Dude slow as gently caress.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster

parallelodad posted:

I think it was three... four years ago now when Thanos got out of his chair and said "Fine I'll do it myself"? Dude slow as gently caress.

Sliding timescale, bro! Ragnarok takes place shortly after Age of Ultron, but it is coming out a year after CivilWar, which was set more than a year after Ultron.

#MOVIEMAGIC

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Snowman_McK posted:

Doctor Strange's use of the Infinity Stone is especially weird. This artifact of enormous power sits in a room full of artifacts, Strange picks it up, they discover he's been using it, and are just happy to have this dude carry it around for much of the movie until he remembers to use it.

Then again, it felt like a lot of that movie either wasn't filmed or was cut out.

I'd definitely agree on the last part, but didn't Mads Mikkelsen attack the monastery directly after Wong and Mordo caught Strange? There wasn't much time to do anything about his transgression.

Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010

Grendels Dad posted:

I'd definitely agree on the last part, but didn't Mads Mikkelsen attack the monastery directly after Wong and Mordo caught Strange? There wasn't much time to do anything about his transgression.

No. They go to the room where the three pathways lead to the sanctuaries, and they see the attack on one of them, which throws Strange into the other one. What's weird is that, immediately after he oversteps his boundaries, they show him something more secret and no one says 'maybe you should return that incalculably powerful and important artifact that we're terrified of you using just to uneat an apple'

Strobe
Jun 30, 2014
GW BRAINWORMS CREW

Snowman_McK posted:

No. They go to the room where the three pathways lead to the sanctuaries, and they see the attack on one of them, which throws Strange into the other one. What's weird is that, immediately after he oversteps his boundaries, they show him something more secret and no one says 'maybe you should return that incalculably powerful and important artifact that we're terrified of you using just to uneat an apple'

"Are you kidding? We could use this to defeat them!"

Thirty seconds of arguing, Mordo becomes irate again. Another attack

"We don't have time for this!"

It's honestly a conversation that didn't need to happen. We already get the interactions between Mordo and Strange that establish they disagree on methods, we already know Strange tends to ignore conventional wisdom if it conflicts with his intuition or curiosity, we already know Wong thinks it's foolish to take the stone in the first place. The conversation does nothing the movie didn't establish already somewhere else, and would have just been dead space beyond answering the question "why didn't they ask him to put it back", which is not an important question in any scheme of things.

Zzulu
May 15, 2009

(▰˘v˘▰)
Everyone is going to die in infinity war, because the infinity gauntlets work like the dragonballs in dragonball z and you can have everyone die terribly and then be brought back like nothing ever happened

Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010

Strobe posted:

"Are you kidding? We could use this to defeat them!"

Thirty seconds of arguing, Mordo becomes irate again. Another attack

"We don't have time for this!"

It's honestly a conversation that didn't need to happen. We already get the interactions between Mordo and Strange that establish they disagree on methods, we already know Strange tends to ignore conventional wisdom if it conflicts with his intuition or curiosity, we already know Wong thinks it's foolish to take the stone in the first place. The conversation does nothing the movie didn't establish already somewhere else, and would have just been dead space beyond answering the question "why didn't they ask him to put it back", which is not an important question in any scheme of things.

True, we do know all those things, which is why it's weird that no one actually acts on their attitude and just sort of goes along with it. And 'it' being an inconsistent new student with no authority whatsoever grabbing one of their most potent artifacts and just dicking around with it, then hanging onto it. It's a pretty consistent problem with the film. Strange, at the end of his tether, unquestioningly and unskeptically seizes on a story about magic healing energy and spends his last dollar getting there. That's fine. Then, two minutes after actually meeting the source of those stories, is back to being snarky and skeptical. People tend to have the attitude that moves the film along the quickest, or gets them the scene they wanted, and the Ancient One using her powers to smack the skepticism and pride Strange seemed to have lost in the preceding ten minutes of the film was going to happen, even if it ignores characterisation from one scene earlier.

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"


I thought there was some talk about how the next Avengers movie is actually going to primarily be a Thanos' story/origin/movie. I could see them doing the usual Iron Man/Dr. Strange/Thor thing but with Thanos' as the main character and the Heroes as the "bad guys".

Yakmouth
Jan 20, 2016

Lord_Magmar posted:

I thought there was some talk about how the next Avengers movie is actually going to primarily be a Thanos' story/origin/movie. I could see them doing the usual Iron Man/Dr. Strange/Thor thing but with Thanos' as the main character and the Heroes as the "bad guys".

Last month I posted link: http://collider.com/avengers-infinity-war-thanos-main-character/#images where Feige says essentially that. I hope it ends up being the case, but who knows?


Edit: GoG2 reactions are starting to come in: http://heroichollywood.com/first-guardians-2-reactions-hit-web/

Yakmouth fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Apr 18, 2017

Snowglobe of Doom
Mar 30, 2012

sucks to be right
Another thing I noticed in Captain America: Civil War this time around: remember how we're always ragging on the franchise for destroying empty cars during the battles, often in lieu of showing innocent citizens being hurt or injured? There's the big final fight scene in Avengers 1 where the invading Chitauri swoop in and blast the gently caress out of empty cars, there's a bunch of scenes on Avengers 2 (including one where a woman inside a car nearly plunges to her death but is saved when she abandons the car. The car isn't so lucky), Tony's struggles to perfect his Iron Man suits in the first movie result in him accidentally destroying his beloved classic cars, Scarlet Witch momentarily takes Iron Man out of the airport fight in Civil War by dumping a bunch of cars on his head, Thor quite often throws cars at people during battles, etc etc..

The big dramatic reveal in Civil War that was the crux of Zemo's entire plan was that Tony's parents were killed by Bucky in a car. Tony's Dad actually escapes the car but Bucky picks him up and places him carefully back inside.
Someone actually died in a car for once and it was so freakin' awful that the Avengers freaked out and beat the poo poo out of each other over it. :v:

Edit: huh, Dr Strange's origin is that he nearly dies in a car crash. loving hell, these movies are totally obsessed with trashing cars for dramatic effect.


Edit: also Stark's origin was that the convoy of armored cars he was traveling in were attacked by terrorists
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YvvFntN-Ec

Snowglobe of Doom fucked around with this message at 07:29 on Apr 18, 2017

Zzulu
May 15, 2009

(▰˘v˘▰)

Yakmouth posted:

Last month I posted link: http://collider.com/avengers-infinity-war-thanos-main-character/#images where Feige says essentially that. I hope it ends up being the case, but who knows?


Edit: GoG2 reactions are starting to come in: http://heroichollywood.com/first-guardians-2-reactions-hit-web/

These are way too positive

BravestOfTheLamps
Oct 12, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Lipstick Apathy
'Fanboyish' is the word you're looking for.

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DC Murderverse
Nov 10, 2016

"Tell that to Zod's snapped neck!"

Zzulu posted:

These are way too positive

They always are.

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