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I'm playing Avernum 2 now and if there's one thing I hope is fixed for Avernum 3 it's the goddamn boat pathfinding. Argh! Also it'd be great if you could leave notes on the map for all the places to go back to once you have Dispel Barrier. I mean I guess I could grab a pen and paper... I guess. 
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Sep 20, 2017 21:13
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Glare Seethe posted:I'm playing Avernum 2 now and if there's one thing I hope is fixed for Avernum 3 it's the goddamn boat pathfinding. Argh! Also it'd be great if you could leave notes on the map for all the places to go back to once you have Dispel Barrier. I mean I guess I could grab a pen and paper... I guess. I always lose my notes when I try this. 
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Sep 20, 2017 21:22
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Glare Seethe posted:I'm playing Avernum 2 now and if there's one thing I hope is fixed for Avernum 3 it's the goddamn boat pathfinding. Argh! Also it'd be great if you could leave notes on the map for all the places to go back to once you have Dispel Barrier. I mean I guess I could grab a pen and paper... I guess. Good news, there's not going to be any boats in Avernum 3! But yeah, I feel your pain. Jeff very clearly just used straight-line pathfinding for the boats, routinely leading to stuff like accidentally re-entering a town immediately after leaving it, not to mention having to babysit the things around complex terrain. I really wish you couldn't enter towns/dungeons unless you specifically click on / move into them. 
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Sep 20, 2017 21:23
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Good news, there's not going to be any boats in Avernum 3! That's intriguing. I have not played the original so I don't know the geography for the third game, I just assumed it'll be the same Avernum map we know and love from the rest of the series. Maybe now that Jeff's gonna have both Avernum and Avadon wrapped up he can give the engine some attention. It doesn't need a lot, I think, just little additions and tweaks here and there.
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Sep 20, 2017 21:42
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Avernum 3 has basically zero maps from the first 2 games. It's completely new.
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Sep 20, 2017 21:48
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I wonder if that spear you can only get with a boat in the underground section at the beginning is still going to be there. Will you be able to get to that area without a boat?
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Sep 20, 2017 22:16
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Sorry, I didn't mean literally "there are no boats in Avernum 3", just that their presence is greatly downplayed compared to the first two games.
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Sep 20, 2017 22:22
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Sorry, I didn't mean literally "there are no boats in Avernum 3", just that their presence is greatly downplayed compared to the first two games. Don't get my hopes up like that. I keep forgetting that I haven't played 3. Next you're gonna tell me that there aren't any acid spraying bushes. 
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Sep 20, 2017 22:35
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Avernum 3 has a cool skull.
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Sep 20, 2017 22:39
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Glare Seethe posted:That's intriguing. I have not played the original so I don't know the geography for the third game, I just assumed it'll be the same Avernum map we know and love from the rest of the series. Oh you sweet summer child. Seriously do not hover over this spoiler: You return to the surface!
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Sep 20, 2017 23:02
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Sorry, I didn't mean literally "there are no boats in Avernum 3", just that their presence is greatly downplayed compared to the first two games.
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Sep 20, 2017 23:10
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I'm making a beeline for the Black Halberd & Fury Crossbow.
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Sep 21, 2017 00:10
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And Tyler Too! posted:I'm making a beeline for the Black Halberd & Fury Crossbow. Somewhat related, I got lucky and received a steel halberd as a random drop in Exile 1. That was a stroke of luck as that's nearly end-game gear for my polearm specialist. I ended up cheating in money in Exile with the editor because I couldn't even afford basic training. Both of my main tanks hadn't spent a single point since creation; they were both level 14 and had 65 skill points to spend. I also cheated my thief/skill monkey to have 10 Item Lore because gently caress having to pay to identify everything. The cheapest place I know for that is 30 gold and half the time the item identified doesn't even sell for that much. I find it very rough building spellcasters in this game, and I have a feeling that it's going to be worse in Exile 2 and 3 because spells cost so much more to cast. I have two pure melee fighters and I basically just spend about the same amount of points on Str, Dex, weapon skill, Defence and Assasination, while casters are expensive in terms of money and skill point investment. Plus, HP goes up naturally at level up, but SP doesn't. Even 1 point/level would make a big difference.
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Sep 21, 2017 00:23
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I'm catching up on Crystal Souls but I'm not clear on where to really go once I hit Chapter 4. I guess my rough plan is to hit the Castle for Magi Clearance, find a vendor with the important spells and a couple of levels, then duck back into Chapter 3's area to clear up all the locations I missed? Maybe? At the moment I seem to be at a rather wonky place where I don't really have the power to take on anything big, and I've had to leave a lot of locations underground for later.
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Sep 21, 2017 00:26
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Stelas posted:I've had to leave a lot of locations underground for later.
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Sep 21, 2017 00:47
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Stelas posted:I'm catching up on Crystal Souls but I'm not clear on where to really go once I hit Chapter 4. I guess my rough plan is to hit the Castle for Magi Clearance, find a vendor with the important spells and a couple of levels, then duck back into Chapter 3's area to clear up all the locations I missed? Maybe? You're in the open-world portion of the game, so pretty much go wherever and do side quests. You'll keep piling up loose ends as you resolve quests, and eventually you'll get the ones that lead into the endgame quest chains. The Tower of the Magi / Great Cave environs are decent places to go fresh from Chapter 3, since they're relatively safe. You can also return to the Chapter 1 area and tie up any loose ends you didn't resolve before starting Chapter 2.
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Sep 21, 2017 01:05
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Zereth posted:... That... doesn't narrow things down, at all. I mean more that Act 3 showed it was perfectly willing to give me access to areas I just plain couldn't take on yet, like the fiend's area in the east past the Chasms or the clumps of strong undead in the south-west (made even worse because you've still only got ice area damage at that point). Up until then I'd been taking on whatever came my way without any real trouble and I completely cleared out Act 1 and 2, but Act 3 was where I had to start going 'okay well I guess I'll come back to that'. I just want to systematically hoover up the whole world, is that so bad Anyway I'm working towards Fort Dranlon on the basis that place had the cheapest spells around, and I'm hoping that's still true Stelas fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Sep 21, 2017 |
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Sep 21, 2017 03:04
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Stelas posted:I mean more that Act 3 showed it was perfectly willing to give me access to areas I just plain couldn't take on yet, like the fiend's area in the east past the Chasms or the clumps of strong undead in the south-west (made even worse because you've still only got ice area damage at that point). Up until then I'd been taking on whatever came my way without any real trouble and I completely cleared out Act 1 and 2, but Act 3 was where I had to start going 'okay well I guess I'll come back to that'. 
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Sep 21, 2017 05:29
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Stelas posted:Anyway I'm working towards Fort Dranlon on the basis that place had the cheapest spells around, and I'm hoping that's still true I'm a bit ahead of you in my game but had a similar moment after getting back to Avernum and it took me a while to decide where to go. I went back through the portal and retrieved the first crystal soul, but that was by the skin of my teeth (felt good though). Then did the area around the Tower of Magi and went west towards the Castle, and when I later swung back to the Eastern Gallery where you are now, I was way overleveled for the area. I just did a major quest in that big lake near the Waterfall Warrens and absolutely crushed it. So basically I think you're going in a good direction for a smooth difficulty curve, whereas I sort of flipped it around. And Tyler Too! - I took your advice and did not read your spoiler but based on what I remember from A4 I'm guessing A3 will take place in vahnatai lands and involve dealing with Rentar-Ihrno. Unless that happens in A2 and I haven't gotten there yet, or in-between games. 
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Sep 21, 2017 08:11
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JustJeff88 posted:Somewhat related, I got lucky and received a steel halberd as a random drop in Exile 1. That was a stroke of luck as that's nearly end-game gear for my polearm specialist. I know Exile hasn't aged well but getting money really isn't that difficult. Just sell everything, designate one character to be the loot mule until you've got enough funding to bring your party up to speed, most of your equipment is going to be earned through pillaging dungeons anyways. Stone swords, iron knives, etc. it all adds up. There are usually quest-givers who are like "hey, bring me iron bars/sacks of flour, I'll give you 25g per!" Stelas posted:I'm catching up on Crystal Souls but I'm not clear on where to really go once I hit Chapter 4. I guess my rough plan is to hit the Castle for Magi Clearance, find a vendor with the important spells and a couple of levels, then duck back into Chapter 3's area to clear up all the locations I missed? Maybe? Chapter 4 is the "real" Avernum 2 experience. Go anywhere and everywhere. Visit every town you can and hammer out the bounty board quests, talk to everyone with a name and especially mayors/barracks commanders. Going back to visit the Vahnatai lands is always a good idea and strongly encouraged, you'll find yourself back there one way or another. Leave no part of your map unexplored. Horace Kinch fucked around with this message at 09:22 on Sep 21, 2017 |
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Sep 21, 2017 09:07
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My biggest memory of the Exile series was getting Exile 2 as shareware over AOL's games tab, and getting just...loving weirdly obsessive with it, using the cheat editor to constantly reset my team back to the beginning after getting to the end of the demo to just play through it again and again, and also using the random shop inventory in the southwest of the upper caverns and retriggering it's random inventory in the cheat editor over and over again to equip myself with the greatest poo poo possible. I think I even made up stories about that group. I was a weird kid.
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Sep 21, 2017 09:44
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Glare Seethe posted:I'm a bit ahead of you in my game but had a similar moment after getting back to Avernum and it took me a while to decide where to go. Cool, thanks. Clearing out the entire map was always The Plan, I was just wondering which order to do it in for a bit of a smoother experience. Zereth posted:Yeah my point was that every location in the game is underground. dammit undergrounder How the hell does lighting even work in Avernum, I forget, is it just 'luminous fungus did it'
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Sep 21, 2017 10:58
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Stelas posted:How the hell does lighting even work in Avernum, I forget, is it just 'luminous fungus did it'
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Sep 21, 2017 11:21
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ProfessorCirno posted:My biggest memory of the Exile series was getting Exile 2 as shareware over AOL's games tab, and getting just...loving weirdly obsessive with it, using the cheat editor to constantly reset my team back to the beginning after getting to the end of the demo to just play through it again and again, and also using the random shop inventory in the southwest of the upper caverns and retriggering it's random inventory in the cheat editor over and over again to equip myself with the greatest poo poo possible. I loved Exile 1 so much. I loved scrounging in the dirt with goddamn stone daggers and rags and maybe a single piece of leather armor on one of my 6 guys. I loved how I'd run into something so hard it would always kill one of my party members so hard he gets turned into dust and I never figured out how to resurrect him. I loved putting points into esoteric poo poo like daggers and deathblow. Seriously I'd like an increase in party size, that would be cool.
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Sep 21, 2017 12:20
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I've often thought it'd be neat to play a game about the founding of Exile. Sort of a hybrid civilization-builder / XCOM game, where you start out with Erika, Micah, and the other OG crew being sent through the Eastern Gallery portal into this bare cave filled with sliths and demons and so on, and you have to fend them off, build up Fort Exile, and deal with the steadily increasing influx of refugees, only some of whom want to actually be helpful. Hostile attacks from sliths and demons keep ramping up. You can go out and build chokepoint fortresses like Fort Dranlon to focus the attention of the sliths, but the demons don't give a poo poo about that (beyond periodically exploding a fort because they can), so for them you have to build a strike team that can find and seal Grah-Hoth. Some of the refugees can serve in the military, or farm, or make weapons/armor/tools (I hope you like stone daggers!), or do other support work, but others are legit criminals and have to be imprisoned or banished or press-ganged into suicidal military operations.
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Sep 21, 2017 17:39
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I've often thought it'd be neat to play a game about the founding of Exile. Sort of a hybrid civilization-builder / XCOM game, where you start out with Erika, Micah, and the other OG crew being sent through the Eastern Gallery portal into this bare cave filled with sliths and demons and so on, and you have to fend them off, build up Fort Exile, and deal with the steadily increasing influx of refugees, only some of whom want to actually be helpful. Hostile attacks from sliths and demons keep ramping up. You can go out and build chokepoint fortresses like Fort Dranlon to focus the attention of the sliths, but the demons don't give a poo poo about that (beyond periodically exploding a fort because they can), so for them you have to build a strike team that can find and seal Grah-Hoth. Some of the refugees can serve in the military, or farm, or make weapons/armor/tools (I hope you like stone daggers!), or do other support work, but others are legit criminals and have to be imprisoned or banished or press-ganged into suicidal military operations. Sounds like a weird 4X. I'd play it. Pitch it to Vogel!
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Sep 21, 2017 17:45
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:Sounds like a weird 4X. I'd play it. Pitch it to Vogel! It's so far outside his area of expertise that I can't imagine he'd make it himself, even though it would be effectively a way to remake Exile 1 for the third time. And I'm not so excited about the concept that I'd be willing to commit to trying to build the game myself.
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Sep 21, 2017 18:01
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You never know! (But you're probably right about his willingness to experiment with a new genre.)
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Sep 21, 2017 18:04
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I'm a trifle embarrassed to ask this, but does anyone know how to use the keypad to move around in Exile on a modern (Win7 x64) system? According to the manual this is possible, but even after fiddling with the Numlock settings in the registry the best I can manage is to ue the 4 and 6 to scroll left and right, respectively, through the various information windows in the upper-right. I'm not crazy about using the mouse for basic movement and would rather use keys EotB style, but I've had no luck with the pad on my keyboard or an extra wireless number pad that I plugged in through a USB port.
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Sep 22, 2017 18:06
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Keypad works fine for me, numlock on.
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Sep 23, 2017 01:01
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GodFish posted:Keypad works fine for me, numlock on. I envy you. I've tried both my keyboard and my USB numberpad while editing the registry and changing the settings in BIOS and no luck. Mouse movement for me, I guess.
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Sep 23, 2017 02:11
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JustJeff88 posted:I envy you. I've tried both my keyboard and my USB numberpad while editing the registry and changing the settings in BIOS and no luck. Mouse movement for me, I guess. Aren't you using the old-games.com recompiled version of Exile, maybe it's something related to that/might be a fix mentioned there.
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Sep 23, 2017 17:29
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Alright, I'm torn between the original Exile 1: Escape from the Pit, and the original Avernum 1. Just been stumbling around in both games, trying to figure out which one to keep playing, which to drop. Beginning game sequences are pretty similar. Liking the the 6 party team + flat overhead view in Exile 1, like the Geneforge engine notebook in original Avernum 1. Graphics wise: it's a wash. Exile 1 has cleaner graphics, original Avernum 1 has a better GUI. Both games have readable fonts, hail Vogel. As much as I like the SSI Goldbox games, the SSI "fantasy font" in the SSI Goldbox games is a abomination, and migraine inducing when scaled up to be readable on modern systems. Any tips or reccomendations for which game to play?
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Oct 11, 2017 02:11
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In my opinion there isn't a good reason to play the first set of remakes. If you want the oldschool charm and jank, play the Exile trilogy. If you want a more pleasant UI, more fleshed-out writing, and extra content, play the re-remakes (e.g. Avernum: Escape from the Pit). The first set of remakes occupies an uncomfortable compromise between those two points.
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Oct 11, 2017 02:47
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:In my opinion there isn't a good reason to play the first set of remakes. If you want the oldschool charm and jank, play the Exile trilogy. If you want a more pleasant UI, more fleshed-out writing, and extra content, play the re-remakes (e.g. Avernum: Escape from the Pit). The first set of remakes occupies an uncomfortable compromise between those two points. Not an empty post.
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Oct 11, 2017 04:22
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I like the first remakes (Avernum) the most, possibly because they were the first ones I played. Mostly I like dancing around bumping into walls (searching for secrets) with the number pad at high speeds, and I liked soaring around the overworld map in the same way. I didn't really like the "hunt for buttons" secrets in the reremakes, although it's just a preference thing. Mostly I loved the actual speed of getting around in Avernum.
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Oct 11, 2017 08:37
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:In my opinion there isn't a good reason to play the first set of remakes. If you want the oldschool charm and jank, play the Exile trilogy. If you want a more pleasant UI, more fleshed-out writing, and extra content, play the re-remakes (e.g. Avernum: Escape from the Pit). The first set of remakes occupies an uncomfortable compromise between those two points. Then play Avernum 4-6 to close out the storyline. These haven't been remade, but are like 5+ years newer than the original remakes, so there's much less weird awkwardness involved.
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Oct 11, 2017 12:10
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What's wrong with the first set of remakes? I haven't played any version of the original avernum trilogy so I don't know what the differences are between Exile, Avernum Remakes, and the Avernum Remake Remakes
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Oct 11, 2017 17:56
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It's been years since I played them. There's two things I remember. First, all attack spells are either single-target, or work like the "Arrows" spells in the Exile series, i.e. they hit a set number of individually-chosen targets. There's no AoE effects. Second, there are hidden skills that you can find that are substantially better than the skills you can normally train in. Like, there's a melee skill that gives you a substantial boost to all damage against humanoid targets, a magic skill that just makes all your spells vastly better, etc. IIRC, once you gain one rank in these skills from finding them, you can train them normally, so there's an incentive to hoard skillpoints. Or, if you didn't know about the secret skills thing and you care about optimized builds, you'll be pissed that you "wasted" skillpoints. Also, the Test of the Mind in Exile 2 and the Golem Factory in Exile 3 got replaced by pale shadows of their former selves.
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Oct 11, 2017 18:04
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Also, the Test of the Mind in Exile 2 and the Golem Factory in Exile 3 got replaced by pale shadows of their former selves. Since I haven't played them, can you tell me how these changes that were made were for the worse?
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Oct 11, 2017 18:09
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