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thrawn527 posted:Oh. Okay then. I think you think there is some kind of contraction there but there isn't. A movie can be not as safe as the safest movie ever without taking any real risks. As you so helpfully showed in the list of supposed risks you pointed out. As they are only risks if you assume the movie is a 1:1 copy. Therefore the prequels where a risk by your logic. CharlestheHammer fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Dec 19, 2017 |
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Dec 19, 2017 20:59
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kimbo305 posted:I had no idea what kind of production schedule TJL was on, so From what I understand, Carrie Fisher had finished filming, but died before they were able to do any of the ADR. Which Rian Johnson said to a couple iffy audio takes, where they did what they could, but couldn't fix all of them. The only one I noticed was near the beginning, "For the record, I agree with the droid on this one." sounded off, to me. CharlestheHammer posted:I think you think there is some kind of contraction there but there isn't. The prequels absolutely were a risk. Taking the Jedi, whom we knew to be the guardians of peace and justice for a thousand generations, into the bureaucratic do nothings who won't life a finger to end slavery, and are shown time and time again to be wrong about just about everything, was a pretty big risk. Whether or not anyone thinks that was a good idea is irrelevant to the fact that George did not make safe movies with the prequels, and internet nerds have been mad at him about it ever since. Also, given how mad a lot of people (idiots) are about how they destroyed the character of Luke Skywalker, I'd say what they did there was a pretty big risk. But I think we just disagree on the meaning of the word, at this point.
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Dec 19, 2017 21:10
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thrawn527 posted:From what I understand, Carrie Fisher had finished filming, but died before they were able to do any of the ADR. Which Rian Johnson said to a couple iffy audio takes, where they did what they could, but couldn't fix all of them. The only one I noticed was near the beginning, "For the record, I agree with the droid on this one." sounded off, to me. Most of what you describe seems to be fan constructs rather than anything George intended. I don't think George was trying o make Anakin a whiny shithead to be risky but more for lovely writting.
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Dec 19, 2017 21:46
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CharlestheHammer posted:Most of what you describe seems to be fan constructs rather than anything George intended. The Jedi chief librarian has a line where she says, out loud, that if something’s not in the Jedi archives, it simply cannot exist. And then Yoda has a line where he laments, out loud, that so many Jedi these days are prideful and arrogant—even the older, more experienced ones. Even if you overlook all the examples of hypocrisy or any of the more subtle signs, the movies come right out and tell you that the Jedi have lost their way. Zoran fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Dec 19, 2017 |
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Dec 19, 2017 22:19
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Zoran posted:Even if you overlook all the examples of hypocrisy or any of the more subtle signs, the movies come right out and tell you that the Jedi have lost their way. Sure, there's the bit at the start where Padme's like, "Hey, I'm pretty sure Count Dooku and the Separatists are behind the assassination attempts against me," and Mace Windu's basically like, "Senator, Count Dooku was once a Jedi; it's impossible for him to assassinate anyone."
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Dec 19, 2017 22:21
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kimbo305 posted:I had no idea what kind of production schedule TJL was on, so There's already rumors that Disney will recast Leia for the final movie, just to finish out the character's story. I've heard Sigourney Weaver and Meryl Streep floated.
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Dec 19, 2017 22:29
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Thwomp posted:There's already rumors that Disney will recast Leia for the final movie, just to finish out the character's story. I've heard Sigourney Weaver and Meryl Streep floated. Kate Mulgrew's name was also thrown around, if only for the raspy voice. 
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Dec 19, 2017 23:01
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Geena Davis might be a good choice if it came to that.
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Dec 19, 2017 23:07
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I absolutely can't imagine they will recast Leia for IX, when they've already stated she wouldn't even appear in CGI form.
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Dec 19, 2017 23:51
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That sounds like crazy talk. The backlash from recasting her like that would be massive. Less so than if they just CGI’d her. I’d be shocked if they recast her. Meryl Streep being rumored just makes it sound even more like bullshit to me, because she’s someone you always name in your dreamcast for women around her age.
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Dec 20, 2017 00:26
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Casimir Radon posted:Leia Supeemanning herself back into the ship was some Starkiller level poo poo. No character in a movie has ever done something like that before. It's a but ridiculous. Yoda lifted an X-Wing, Vader threw lots of poo poo at Luke, and in the prequels Dooku and Yoda throw rocks and walkways at people. The idea that moving a human through a frictionless, weightless space is some impossible feat seems odd.
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Dec 20, 2017 00:31
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thrawn527 posted:That sounds like crazy talk. The backlash from recasting her like that would be massive. Less so than if they just CGI’d her. I’d be shocked if they recast her. Recasting avoids uncanny valley and avoids the accusation that you are parading around a corpse to sell tickets. Dumbledore is the closest example I can think of and it worked fine there (although they didn't have a choice but to recast).
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Dec 20, 2017 00:33
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Yoda lifted an X-Wing, Vader threw lots of poo poo at Luke, and in the prequels Dooku and Yoda throw rocks and walkways at people. The idea that moving a human through a frictionless, weightless space is some impossible feat seems odd.
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Dec 20, 2017 00:49
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Yoda lifted an X-Wing, Vader threw lots of poo poo at Luke, and in the prequels Dooku and Yoda throw rocks and walkways at people. The idea that moving a human through a frictionless, weightless space is some impossible feat seems odd. Have we seen someone use the Force to act upon themselves? Say, levitating? It's like the old 'throw yourself forwards' problem. Because it's really much closer to that. The Force being something you use on others -- whether that's moving them, choking them, shocking them, fooling them -- always felt fairly consistent. It's kind of why the Dark Side was so seductive. But it's not like TLJ really cares about anything in the previous films, so, who cares.
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Dec 20, 2017 00:53
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thrawn527 posted:That sounds like crazy talk. The backlash from recasting her like that would be massive. Less so than if they just CGI’d her. I’d be shocked if they recast her. It would be absolute sacrilege to recast her and yet I'm almost certain they're going to have to try. Either that, or use archive footage, digital trickery, etc. They've come out and said they won't do any of that, which seems like a mistake. The plot so far is screaming for a confrontation between Kylo and Leia, and it'll be super disappointing if it never comes about. As much as I trust J.J. Abrams to have the plot of Episode IX be "what if there were two Death Stars this time?" I think he'll probably do right by the characters, and that's not a bell you can leave unrung. I suppose Force Ghost Luke could speak for her, or there could be a low fidelity hologram or something. Let's just say that Artoo never got around to getting his holocam upgraded to HD.
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Dec 20, 2017 00:58
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They should just go for intermittent scenes where Kylo's minding his own business then they splice in Carrie Fisher from The Blues Brothers taking pot shots at him with a machine gun.
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Dec 20, 2017 01:06
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All I’ve really learned here is that there’s a lot of hardcore nerds that seem to want an exact remake that’s not an exact remake.
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Dec 20, 2017 01:33
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I feel like after Carrie died, they definitely should have reshuffled this movie a bit. Excise Leia's flying through space bit and have her die then. You'd have to get Laura Dern to take over some of Leia's lines later in the film, and you can have Ackbar do the kamikaze lightspeed jump. For Luke, just cut out the last bit where he fades away.
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Dec 20, 2017 01:35
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sportsgenius86 posted:All I’ve really learned here is that there’s a lot of hardcore nerds that seem to want an exact remake that’s not an exact remake. I just want my favorite EU books turned into movies or shows. And I just wanted to see Luke completely lose his poo poo and murder every person ever. Logically I know a new generation has to be minted cause lol the OT cast is dead, dying, or old, but the new generation looks lovely and I think that's where most grognard complaints are besides "ANH REMAKE!!!!!!111". Just my two cents is all, there is no reason to care about any of the new characters at all.
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Dec 20, 2017 01:43
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Canemacar posted:I feel like after Carrie died, they definitely should have reshuffled this movie a bit. Excise Leia's flying through space bit and have her die then. You'd have to get Laura Dern to take over some of Leia's lines later in the film, and you can have Ackbar do the kamikaze lightspeed jump. For Luke, just cut out the last bit where he fades away. I do think Johnson could have done more to shuffle Leia off the board, but that space scene was beautiful, especially in light of Carrie Fisher's death. Is it fair to the people in charge of the next movie? No. But I'd never cut that scene.
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Dec 20, 2017 01:54
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sportsgenius86 posted:All I’ve really learned here is that there’s a lot of hardcore nerds that seem to want an exact remake that’s not an exact remake. I would like A Star Wars movie to try something different instead of being stuck in the same route for 30 god drat years,
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Dec 20, 2017 02:39
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Milky Moor posted:Have we seen someone use the Force to act upon themselves? Say, levitating? It's like the old 'throw yourself forwards' problem. We've seen plenty of people use the Force on their own body so they can perform acts beyond normal what a normal human could do. When Luke makes the shot that killed the Death Star he's not guiding the torpedoes in with telepathy, and when Rey beats Kylo it's not because she uses the Force on him. Not to mention all the jumping and acrobatics, like when Palpatine tries spinning (a good trick) on the Jedi attacking him. It's hardly the first movie to expand on what a Force user can do either. Empire had extensions of what was done in ANH (telekinesis on inanimate objects as well as living ones, force ghosts rather than just voices), RotJ has lightning, etc etc. Moving yourself rather than other objects is somewhat new but it's a natural step from what we've seen before (which is partly why it was in both the old and new EU). Luke does a very minor version of it in the film too, for what it's worth.
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Dec 20, 2017 04:31
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Milky Moor posted:Have we seen someone use the Force to act upon themselves? Say, levitating? It's like the old 'throw yourself forwards' problem. Luke used the Force to super-jump out of the pit in ESB. Presumably that isn't much different.
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Dec 20, 2017 04:33
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Casimir Radon posted:A kilometer while she's freezing and suffocating. It was too much. If size matters not...neither should distance
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Dec 20, 2017 04:42
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jivjov posted:If size matters not...neither should distance And distance certainly doesn't since Luke projected his rear end clear across the galaxy
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Dec 20, 2017 04:44
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Honestly, as far as Liea goes I'm cool with her propelling herself through zero gravity. It's NBD. But they probably shouldn't run with the idea to the point where Rey and the jedi can start flying like Superman. That's a bridge too far.
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Dec 20, 2017 05:16
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So here's a question that I found myself wondering about for the first time: what was the first appearance of lightsaber crystals? As in, what was the first bit of Star Wars media to mention that lightsabers have crystals inside of them? Wookieepedia claims that the first appearance of a lightsaber crystal was in the novelization of the original Star Wars, "simply as an embedded decoration on the hilt", but it doesn't mention what the first actual appearance of what we would now call a "lightsaber crystal" was. Thinking about it, the earliest such mention that I can recall is from Shadows of the Empire, when Luke stops by Ben Kenobi's place to construct a new lightsaber, including using Ben's personal blast furnace to synthesize a crystal for it.
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Dec 20, 2017 05:24
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There's a deleted lightsaber construction scene from ROTJ but you only really see Luke adjusting some circuitry. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ayT0EZwbks&t=79s
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Dec 20, 2017 06:06
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I saw it again and am now at peace with Luke. His death was the most Luke thing he could do. He accomplished all of his goals without violence. Like returned to his RotJ form One thing I did question though was why he was wearing his Jedi robes when Rey first meets him. It seems inconsistent with everything that happens after.
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Dec 20, 2017 07:04
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The earliest source for lightsaber crystals listed on Wookieepedia is the Dark Empire sourcebook, which I'll be even none of us have ever read. Shadows of the Empire definitely seems like it's the first novel they appear in, since they're also mentioned as appearing the ROTJ radio drama, which incorporated elements from SOTE.Stumpus posted:One thing I did question though was why he was wearing his Jedi robes when Rey first meets him. It seems inconsistent with everything that happens after. No-prize answer: why do they gotta be Jedi robes? Can't they just be comfy hermit robes? Real answer: Johnson went in a different direction than Abrams.
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Dec 20, 2017 07:11
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Stumpus posted:I saw it again and am now at peace with Luke. His death was the most Luke thing he could do. He accomplished all of his goals without violence. Like returned to his RotJ form I think someone said that the Visual Dictionary very heavily implies he was about to kill himself. 'Perform one last Jedi rite' or something.
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Dec 20, 2017 07:11
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Milky Moor posted:I think someone said that the Visual Dictionary very heavily implies he was about to kill himself. 'Perform one last Jedi rite' or something. That's interesting. If so, it makes Rey's appearance in the falcon probably really difficult for him to see. No wonder he had that scowl.
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Dec 20, 2017 07:16
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Ritual Jedi seppuku is now canon. 
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Dec 20, 2017 07:37
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Stumpus posted:One thing I did question though was why he was wearing his Jedi robes when Rey first meets him. It seems inconsistent with everything that happens after. It was laundry day when Rey arrived and his other ones were in the wash. Wheat Loaf fucked around with this message at 09:52 on Dec 20, 2017 |
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Dec 20, 2017 09:17
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Rochallor posted:The earliest source for lightsaber crystals listed on Wookieepedia is the Dark Empire sourcebook, which I'll be even none of us have ever read. Shadows of the Empire definitely seems like it's the first novel they appear in, since they're also mentioned as appearing the ROTJ radio drama, which incorporated elements from SOTE. If this counts as files, I'll edit my post, but I think they're out of print so it should be fine. Anyway, there's a page that has PDFs of all the old WEG sourcebooks, including Dark Empire. I can't see anything about crystals in the Dark Empire one, but someone more dedicated than I am might be able to track down a mention in one of the books. The early EU was pretty heavily influenced by the West End RPG, so they would probably be pretty interesting reads for anyone interested in how the EU developed.
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Dec 20, 2017 09:37
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Rochallor posted:The earliest source for lightsaber crystals listed on Wookieepedia is the Dark Empire sourcebook, which I'll be even none of us have ever read. I really should pick up my old West End books from my parents' place over Christmas.
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Dec 20, 2017 10:10
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The Dark Empire Sourcebook is considered one of the best WEG sourcebooks, not only because of the stuff it talks about from Dark Empire proper, but it goes into a lot of depth on the state of the galaxy of the time and has a lot of narrative segments that goes into various backstories, including heavy editorializing to realistically link it with the Thrawn Trilogy. But yeah, Dark Empire Sourcebook talked about Adegan crystals (which were originally the standard version of lightsaber crystals) which then also got heavily featured in early Tales of the Jedi, not surprisingly given DE and TOTJ were by the same guy.
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Dec 20, 2017 13:45
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It's been a very long time since I read Dark Empire, so can someone refresh my memory: doesn't it begin in media res with Palpatine's clone already having returned with his ships and superweapons and Dark Jedi and conquered Coruscant, and Luke, Lando and Wedge are already on Coruscant and Luke defeats an AT-AT using the Force? I can't remember if that's as far as it goes, or if it began with Luke already having gone over to the dark side to become Palpatine's new apprentice; is that where Luke is at the start of the series?
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Dec 20, 2017 13:51
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I stand corrected on my assessment of this thread's level of geekiness. The sourcebooks were never something I encountered, though I might have just been too young. Did anybody ever have Scholastic book fair scenario books? Not sure what you'd call them. They were kind of like a cross between a choose your own adventure book and an RPG module. They came with character cards with different stats and stuff, so each read-through might be a little different. I remember they were very fond of the euphemism 'neutralize' for 'murder the poo poo out of a stormtrooper.'
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Dec 20, 2017 13:58
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Wheat Loaf posted:It's been a very long time since I read Dark Empire, so can someone refresh my memory: doesn't it begin in media res with Palpatine's clone already having returned with his ships and superweapons and Dark Jedi and conquered Coruscant, and Luke, Lando and Wedge are already on Coruscant and Luke defeats an AT-AT using the Force? Comixology is having a huge Star Wars sale at the moment. Dark Empire is only 7 USD, and you can get good comics too.
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Dec 20, 2017 14:08
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