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Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo
Doctor Rope

Bifauxnen posted:

I like where you ended up at the end of this post with suspecting Gaspy, but I don't get this point at all. I don't even think it's scummy it just BUGS ME so I have to post it

"Man, this guy coulda had Super Valuable Townie Role A *OR* Super Valuable Townie Role B so why would scum target him?!"

whaaaaat

The point you have problems with, what i meant was that he made himself sound potentially dangerous to scum in an ambiguous way. It didn't even sound protective at first because I didn't take you're to mean you, and as such, I felt like he was threatening the scum in joke phase which usually is just garbage.

I don't see why scum would prioritize him.

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Moatillata
Dec 13, 2006

Maintain.

Bifauxnen posted:

I can't speak for others but I think your pushing on KB was very, very stretched. And the way you showed up all suss on him but making a show of how you hadn't read the last few pages was weird. And it was also weird that you cased him then threw out some quickie case of "one of these is a scum vote" on some other people but then voted me who you seemed to be casing the least. (not to mention how I am the towniest town!) You're a loose cannon, Moat!

As I've always been :bigtran:

I can speak to that post then about King B. I started with a deadset idea that he was scum who buried his vote in tithin (who imo was never a viable lynch candidate) and then ended with a vote on you because I cant reconcile the fact that if there was a Vig they wouldn't claim it to oust scum. King Bs posting is really off to me still but I don't feel as confident as I did in the beginning of the post.

The vote on you really was more of an experiment to see how you would react to the extremely light pressure.

I've had no intention of leaving my vote on you ##unvote

I'm gonna ##vote TQ for now

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Eh I'm still getting caught up. Was active in fate, but died, and yesterday was just a crummy day for me.

In better spirits, sorry for the lovely tag posts before.

Some quick unsupported opinions while I'm still reading the last 47 posts.

Moat for shinra
Gaspy for turk
GeneX maybe turk

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

I mixed up moat and gene on my list.

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

I'll vote beemen if it comes down to it, but more interested in moat or gene

Can you elaborate on your thoughts re: GeneX? This kind of came out of nowhere.

Moatillata
Dec 13, 2006

Maintain.
I would also vote mithross and probably Hal unless he picks it up

Your Personal Muse
Oct 5, 2010

what a cool dude
My “weird” argument, B, is the same argument you agreed with earlier

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


yaaaay Pod's back!

ok I'm still not seeing Moat in the clear but not really the worst scum no more.

##unvote

##vote Hal

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo
Doctor Rope

Podima posted:

Can you elaborate on your thoughts re: GeneX? This kind of came out of nowhere.

I kind of need to back pedal. I originally had my list order right, with the nod to Gene possibly as turk, Moat as possible Shinra. Moat may not be scum, and I'd be ok switching off of him if someone else I found scummy became the target.

The nod to Gene as turk hinges entirely on a comment from Gulag and how he was digging into to tithin, and rereading it, it is not the subtle communication I thought it was.

It's weak.

That whole post was weak, which is why I apologized for my drive by posts.

I started playing the game today. It doesn't excuse the bad posts leading up to today, but I just wasn't in a good headspace to play any yesterday and was involved with Fate stuff(which I also subbed into).

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo
Doctor Rope
Eh, Hal is lurking sure, but I'd much rather not lurker lynch today when there are better players to test.

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo
Doctor Rope
I mean, admittedly I was lurking from the time of my replacement until mid-day 2 sooo... can't really talk.

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Eh, Hal is lurking sure, but I'd much rather not lurker lynch today when there are better players to test.

yeah

lots of better players

who are playing

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

by Fluffdaddy
I have an incredible amount of IRL bullshit going on atm but the AA/GeneX thing jumped out at me while catching up. I'll reread in more depth tomorrow. One other thing that's been on my mind that I want to get out here re: Nat20:

Day 1:

Podima posted:

This feels like Jafarposting, especially the first line.

Natural 20 posted:

As much as I love this phrase, I'm confused. Jokephase did end a lot faster than I'd expect out of a 3 day D1.

Chances are that it's nothing, but I'd still want it on record that it was something I noticed.

I think what's more interesting is how we transitioned back into a second jokephase shortly after I made those comments.

Again, probably all coincidents, I don't buy scum having that much control over the thread yet.

Natural 20 posted:

I think the Pod vote is a gamble. I didn't really like his drive by earlier in the thread, notably I responded:


And got nothing in return. The note from Pod didn't revolve around the legitimacy of my arguments so much as a character definition that only three people in game are likely to meaningfully understand, unless everyone went through the effort of reading a month's worth of chat between myself and Bif over the course of soldiers.

With that being said, Pod's contributing, which means if he is scum he'll give us enough thread with which to hang him later. The gamble comes with leaving a potential scum alive to influence people later on in the game. Surprisingly easy, especially in large games where people just tend to forget about a lot of what was said in prior days and tunnel their specific targets.

Honestly, in most games it's a gamble I'd happily take, but I note this:


I had assumed that we were applying the 10 post 2 strikes system, but since we're apparently not, we profit greatly from going after lurkers, since there's literally no incentive for them to post otherwise.

I'm happy going after a lurker, I'd want to check up postcounts/do a quick readthrough before I threw down a vote.

Podima posted:

Coming back to what I affectionately termed Jafarposting - this is a lot of words to say, in fact, very little at all about the players in this game. It’s similar to what I recall you doing in Ma-chat when you were trying to rile Bif up towards a mis-execution by dispensing general criticism about the rest of the useless thread.

Summary: I call out Nat20 in a vague way, he responds with a lot of words that say not much (which is what I was initially pointing at), and then doubles back to throw shade at me for not responding - but still gives himself an out to pull back, and still hasn't made any strong alignment reads. Note that he never responds directly to my last post characterizing my concerns with him in clear terms.

This is the closest thing he made to a strong alignment call D1:

Natural 20 posted:

No, me neither. I'm unsure if we're going to get very much out of the next few hours, but:

##vote NGO

If something comes up that's compelling I'll make sure I have a look.

The rest of it is just jokephase, sidelong commentary on the gamestate/postcounts, and that's about it.

Day 2:

Natural 20 posted:

I was sus on Pod on my readthrough of D1.

I cleared him since he's the first person to have dropped a vote on DB, but now that could easily have been just him trying to out the other scumteam.

To explain further, I felt it was conveniently placed that my responses to Pod went ignored for a full day and he happens to come back into me half an hour after I'm asleep.

Usually coincidence, but when Pod's watched me play an entire game of soldiers at this point and knows my sleep schedule and is explicitly making arguments around my posting in a mason chat from that game.

Perhaps I'm being paranoid, but it's mafia. That's kinda the deal.

Podima posted:

Full stop I would not be that much of an rear end in a top hat to case someone based on when I know they'll be asleep vs not, entirely regardless of alignment. That's not how I play. You're going a little too paranoid here, considering I didn't even vote you.

Natural 20 posted:

Shade is shade. You wouldn't have thrown a vote out because it would have had literally no momentum. The idea that I was weighing in in the same way as I was with Bif was raised. When I asked why the initial point I raised was illegitimate I got no response and then when I can't respond I get an elaboration saying that I'm acting in a manner that's non-committal. Having committed my own vote prior to that based on a quick analysis of risk and reward around lunching a lurker against someone who might turn the tide.

It's not even an rear end in a top hat move to me, I take a risk playing Mafia because I'll be asleep over deadline. That's something that people should rightly take advantage of and that I have a job to mitigate.

In any case, the b-minus1 case is a lot better than anything I'm tugging at here at the moment.

More back-and-forth on me without fully committing, including harping on me "not responding" in the same breath as claiming I'm casing him when he can't respond because I know when he's asleep? He's leaving himself outs. Waiting to see if anyone else jumps on it?

GeneX posted:

Mafia Edit:

I almost forgot:

Nat 20, what exactly is your issue with Podima? Also, do you have any reads on, well, basically anyone else?

Natural 20 posted:

1. My issue is that there's a claim d1 that I'm acting similarly to my masonry chat with Bif.

It's broadly unsubstantiated and when I question it I get nothing.

The only response that does come happens when I'm asleep.

I think an enterprising scum player who knows my sleep timings could use those to push a case on me that doesn't have legs.

I think Pod is a player with that level of knowledge about me. Pod claims he wouldn't play that unfairly, but I don't consider play like that particularly unfair, so I feel that that defense doesn't ring true.

2. I'm confident in town Bif. She's pushing cases but not getting overly upset with anyone. I feel like even Bif is scum she feels an obligation to always be pressuring people that leads her posting to seem more frantic. I don't see that here.

I don't like Juchero because I think the d1 vig was terrible. When asked for subsequent justification there's nothing there apart from trying to pawn off responsibility to TM for suggesting it. I'm dumbfounded that some people buy that.

I'm going to be at work now so I can only get short responses in until I'm home this evening.

This is a continued mis-characterization of my point from Day 1, which he notably never responded to. My case on him is not his sleep schedule, it's that he keeps commenting on the game instead of playing the game and making alignment reads. He FINALLY starts doing that here when explicitly pressed by GeneX, but all he can come up with "Bif isn't getting mad" and "Juchero is a terrible vig" rehashed from D1.

Overall Self-Excusing
Just look at his post history and how many times he's excusing himself for not participating or focusing on filler posts. I started quoting but came up with WAY too many so I will leave a link to his post history as an exercise for the viewer, and a couple of snippets.
https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3848100&userid=124675&perpage=40&pagenumber=1

Natural 20 posted:

I actually agree with you. We've kinda stormed straight through jokephase a lot earlier than I would have anticipated, which seems odd to me.

The thing is, if you're anti-town and driving this, I don't understand what exactly you get out of it. imo that's probably the more interesting puzzle at this point in time.

Natural 20 posted:

So the return to jokephase struck me as really odd as well.

So I went and had a look at it:

It's us, just that seems to have been enough to lighten the tone enough that people start making jokes again.

I suspect therefore it was just an accident of timing as opposed to anything else.

Natural 20 posted:



Postcounts so far.

Sub 10 people is where we should be going tbh.

Like that drat votefinder, all it does is tell us stats.

Natural 20 posted:



I woke up to this.

loving christ guys I was asleep for 5 hours.

Good job nailing scum though.

Natural 20 posted:

This got me thinking.

Why would they think that?

[TONS OF FLAVOR/SETUP SPEC SNIPPED]

Natural 20 posted:

So I'm going to metagame.

25 person game. Assume 3 scum teams. We know already that one team has at least 3 people. Let's then look back at FFVI and the 2 man SK team. So a guess would be 2 teams of 3 people, 1 team of 2 people that's stronger for being more undermanned.

Even if every team ruthlessly and perfectly targets town every single day with their individual NKs and town fails to lynch anything but town, town is only annihilated by the end of day 5. (17 town, 4 die each day, the final town member dies on day 5).

Consider the reverse, scum always kill the other teams and town always lynch scum. With absolutely perfectly even killing (to maintain the NK for all factions) town win by the end of N2. (8 scum, 4 die each day). If a single person has BP it's the end of D3.

Both those scenarios are within the stress test for a mafia game.

Natural 20 posted:

I'm going to be at work now so I can only get short responses in until I'm home this evening.

Natural 20 posted:

I'm honestly having trouble because as scum I could just fake a read on anyone I wanted and back it up with walls of text. Now I'm really worried about making incorrect cases.

Extreme TL;DR: Nat20 is posting a lot of nothing and excusing himself a lot for posting nothing, instead of scumhunting. He's also gotten Hella Paranoid about me calling him out, yet keeps only going halfway towards calling me out in turn without ever committing.

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo
Doctor Rope

Bifauxnen posted:

yeah

lots of better players

who are playing

I think you broke this up for emphasis, but I'm having trouble parsing.

Hal always lurks.

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

by Fluffdaddy
"i have an incredible amount of irl bullshit"

*makes a mega-casepost*

mafia is a harsh mistress, why can't i quit

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Podima posted:

Extreme TL;DR: Nat20 is posting a lot of nothing and excusing himself a lot for posting nothing, instead of scumhunting. He's also gotten Hella Paranoid about me calling him out, yet keeps only going halfway towards calling me out in turn without ever committing.

yeah and the only hard call he seems to stick to is calling me town, which, well duh :v:

poor Jafar :(

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Anomalous Amalgam posted:

I think you broke this up for emphasis, but I'm having trouble parsing.

I

what

I give up

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

by Fluffdaddy
Also one more addendum: I get that Nat20 has been running a mafia game and he has work, that's ok! That's life! But to have that little actual content in 57 posts when D1 started 5 IRL days ago is worrisome. If he comes back tomorrow and picks it right back up with some solid cases, then I'll reevaluate.

Truth Quark
Mar 21, 2010

:ffg:
EAT THE DONUTS
:ffg:
Normally I'd be all for lurker lynches, but we killed two yesterday and CPig is getting on their cases.

People who are posting but mostly empty posting are a different story (like what Pod thinks Nat20 is doing), I'll take a look at him.

I still like b-minus and Moat for scum.

Gaspy has made (1) post referencing me today and hasn't responded to anyone calling him out on it, not sure how I feel about that yet.

Asphyxious
Jun 25, 2012

I'm trying to explain that I'm a person who wishes to live a very quiet life.

Bifauxnen posted:

interesting thoughts on flerp Gaspy, but how you feeling about TQ now?

At work at the moment but I’ve been compiling notes on TQ and I’ll throw up an effort post in about an hour.

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)

Finally home and catching up now. Going back to read the start of the day forward and will also take a look at the cases on the current voteleaders. Sorry again for my lack of play so far- if life continues to get in the way I'll just go ahead and ask Pig for a sub even though I hate to do that.

Tired Moritz
Mar 25, 2012

wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

(n o i c e)
Does anyone cc B-'s flavor claim?

Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

I think you broke this up for emphasis, but I'm having trouble parsing.

Hal always lurks.

Sorry I am being extra bad this game, one of the busy times at work. Going to catch up now

Mithross
Apr 27, 2011

Intelligent and bright, they explored a world that was new and strange to them. They liked it, they thought - a whole world just for them! They were dimly aware that a God had created them, was watching them; they called out to him, thanking him in a chittering language, before running off.

Tired Moritz posted:

Does anyone cc B-'s flavor claim?

I mentioned this before, but it bears repeating:
CPig is very careful to provide fake claims to scum in this games, including at least one or two main characters. We won't get a cc unless a scum messes up very badly or is running a gambit.

Mithross
Apr 27, 2011

Intelligent and bright, they explored a world that was new and strange to them. They liked it, they thought - a whole world just for them! They were dimly aware that a God had created them, was watching them; they called out to him, thanking him in a chittering language, before running off.

Mithross posted:

I mentioned this before, but it bears repeating:
CPig is very careful to provide fake claims to scum in these games, including at least one or two main characters. We won't get a cc unless a scum messes up very badly or is running a gambit.
Mafia edit

Tired Moritz
Mar 25, 2012

wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

(n o i c e)
Oh ok

Jen X
Sep 29, 2014

To bring light to the darkness, whether that darkness be ignorance, injustice, apathy, or stagnation.
Here's Moat:

D1:
- still joking around post-jokephase
- one of those "Hi I'm a bunch of pages behind, someone tell me what to do" posts
- calls tithin scum for his vote on NGO (+ all his posts, though, uh, there's no explanations here. Good call though!)
- also calls tobbs and flerp scum because ???
- Does not like NGO, thinks he's faking being overwhelmed due to wording of "a high level" (which...yeah, I assumed it was sarcastic, sorta, but it's a weird sarcasm.)
- Pokes Pod for suspecting juchero and then not voting for Juchero (I'll add that Pod actually posted multiple times about Juchero, with no vote, anywhere. I like this post.)
- backtracks a bit on NGO, sees the sarcasm now
- (Small aside: Pod comes in about now and addresses Moat's point by pointing to meta a bit, then backing off Juchero completely. Anyone here knowledgeable enough to say whether Pod is as sparing with his vote as he seems to be in this situation?)
- shies away from LM and NGO, hops onto tithin as an alternate
- questions tobbs' thought that any lynch swap will require scum
- asks Pod to look at Asiina (not sure what he's getting at here, he doesn't expand on it later either), jumps on db early
- dayvig is a nulltell

Thoughts:
I don't love the "drop reads and run" bits earlier in the day (or the reluctance to expand on what he thought he saw with Asiina), but his later stuff is pretty good, actually. I'm notably pleasantly surprised with the read on Pod, catching the lack of vote is something someone doesn't do if they aren't reading in depth (eg what the whole reads without explanations thing tends to indicate). He's obviously not scum with tithin and DB, too, as an aside.

D2:
- Hoo boy. B/w Pod and Bif there's a scum, and it's probably Pod because he...joined scum in wanting to lurker lynch moat. Also Tobbs or KB are members of Shinra, and Moat wants it to be KB. (What the hell is this post? Like, the only way this makes any sense to me is if Moat is a double scientist role or something, because he's mentioned KB and Bif 0 times in reads, and tobbs only twice, with no explanations)
- dismissive response to tobbs' confusion/skepticism over Moat's read of tobbs as shinra #3
- joke at KB
- Oh, okay, now he's got words on KB, thinks he's suspicious because he shot gulag instead of tithin. (Also one of TQ/Juchero is scum because of their votes on b-) (This...makes much more sense. It's also true, taking a detour to check KB, dude was all over tithin. Still unclear where the hell Bif fits into all of this though.)
- not voting for b-, thinks he's town and has a power. Still wants to know why KB killed gulag and not tithin, doesn't buy KB's explanation (not sure I do either, tbh, but I don't think KB is scum so whatever, maybe he left out a bit or something). And then a vote for Bif (why?)
- laughing at TQ poking at him over KB
- Brushes off Bif rearing in KB's defense, pokes at her going in hard in KB's defense
- buys b-'s claim
- wants someone to actually case him, wants bif to give him an actual case on b-
- Backs off of KB a bit, says he still feels weird. Vote on Bif was "an experiment", now votes for TQ
- would vote Mithross, Hal

Thoughts:

The wheels fell off for a bit but I actually think I understand where he's coming from, even if there's a bit of lingering suspicion due to the way he went about voting/unvoting Bif. I don't have a metaread on KB (shine doesn't really count for him), so I can't say if there's something to that, but I suppose it's worth keeping an eye on just in case the 3p team nat20 pondered over instead of actually participating really does exist. I also wish Moat wouldn't drop reads without explaining them, he keeps vacillating between being annoyingly vague and thoughtfully precise and I wish he would just stick to the latter because he's obviously capable of it, and many of his reads make much more sense when he explains them.

Overall:

I think he's town. His reads make sense, he's demonstrably reading the game, he's asking good questions, and he's revising his opinions in a believable manner.

Jen X
Sep 29, 2014

To bring light to the darkness, whether that darkness be ignorance, injustice, apathy, or stagnation.
Mafia edit:

goddammit I keep forgetting to append questions

Moat, any particular reason you think (thought?) Pod and tobbs are scum?

Asphyxious
Jun 25, 2012

I'm trying to explain that I'm a person who wishes to live a very quiet life.
It’s my lunch break and all I want to do is play more FF7 but I promised an effort post :(

Jen X
Sep 29, 2014

To bring light to the darkness, whether that darkness be ignorance, injustice, apathy, or stagnation.

Asphyxious posted:

It’s my lunch break and all I want to do is play more FF7 but I promised an effort post :(

I'm strongly tempted to just use the nightphase to analyze you instead of doing it tomorrow, so just play FF7 and post whenever

effort cases are a pain and I regret my lack of note-taking more and more every game

Asphyxious
Jun 25, 2012

I'm trying to explain that I'm a person who wishes to live a very quiet life.

GeneX posted:

I'm strongly tempted to just use the nightphase to analyze you instead of doing it tomorrow, so just play FF7 and post whenever

effort cases are a pain and I regret my lack of note-taking more and more every game

Nah I have pages of notes on TQ I’ll just do it now. You never know which day is your last so get the data out asap. Doing it now.

Moatillata
Dec 13, 2006

Maintain.

Asphyxious posted:

Nah I have pages of notes on TQ I’ll just do it now. You never know which day is your last so get the data out asap. Doing it now.

Asphyxious posted:

Nah I have pages of notes on TQ

Asphyxious posted:

pages of notes

:stare:

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!



yeah I gotta say I find it kinda weird that the first thing to barely ping Gaspy on D1 just so happens to still be worth pages of notes on apparently, just when TQ seems to be participating a lot more meaningfully than they were in jokephase, too. I wonder just how TQ earned this much attention from Gaspy more than any other. I find it a little suspicious. But hey, maybe it'll be some ironclad linguistics slip that means he's totally scum for all I know. :v:

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)

Quick and dirty thoughts from my re-read:

KB is on my radar as possible scum because I don't see how someone who was presumably provided a wiki link with their role (assuming because I was, and one's been provided with all the flips so far) could open their wiki link, look at this photo at the top of the page:



...and not have a very good idea that stabbing was the flavor of their vig.

I find KB to be too good of a player to make this mistake from his role PM- so my current theory is that he realized he needed to come up with a cover story for lack of flavor, went searching through the wiki after the fact, and landed on this. Since no one immediately counter-claimed the stabbing kill, he could claim the flavor.

That said, I've liked his questioning of others today (Moat/b-minus), so I'm willing to admit I could be wrong, but I still don't think everything is on the up-and-up with that claim.

Mithross posted:

I'm concerned about Moat, his case doesn't feel like it evolved naturally. He claimed to be behind on the thread as he posted it, but then didn't change anything as he caught up. He just disregarded the new information and said he saw the answers to his question and didn't buy it.

I agree with this. Nothing at all felt natural about that response to me.

King Burgundy posted:

Now here is some content from this game to look at:




So he appears to be suspicious of YPM.

But he hasn't said anything about anyone's alignment since, and when prompted says:


---

Surely other people see this right?

I agree with this too and I think it's a really good catch. I don't have much else to add to it at the moment, but I haven't gotten to his defense yet.

Juchero posted:

i won't be around until tomorrow due to some very stressful irl poo poo

i'm gonna ##unvote because i won't be able to change it until tomorrow, just in case

Off-topic, but hope all is well, Juchero. I can certainly sympathize.

b-minus1 posted:

well, i was genuinely concerned that my breadcrumbs were too obvious and i would be nk'd 1. turns out they only confused a handful of people who now want to kill me. drat it.

I am Tifa, town aligned Elite Bodyguard. I choose someone to protect, and if anyone tries to kill them I will die instead, but the person who attempted the kill will also die.

like I already explained, the "thing" i did was choose my target by whoever was the first to comment after my post. That person was bif.

meant I already submitted my night action, and as long as she didn't do anything scummy I wasn't going to change it.

Though I briefly second guessed my decision near the end of d1:



but ultimately decided to go through with my choice.

to summarize: I'm Tifa, EB, and n1 I protected bif.
I apologize for the lack of reads so far. I wasn't trying to make my moat read seem like some groundbreaking information.

I see his claim but missed any direct response to KB's case above. If it's a fake claim, it's a well-designed one, but it bothers me that he doesn't have an answer to the evolution of his reads (or lack thereof) as KB pointed out.

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

I'll vote beemen if it comes down to it, but more interested in moat or gene

Why Gene? I don't recall seeing a case on him.

b-minus1 posted:

also KB: I was thinking about those posts of mine that you quoted from the shine game. remember i was turboed d1 in that game even though (i thought) I had posted more detailed reads than i have in this game. so can you really blame me for trying a different strategy? i was a little overzealous and probably should not have breadcrumbed my role so early in this game, but i never thought i would be attacked so aggressively by a few players in this game. i don't get it

Here's B-'s reply to the meta case from the previous game KB posted and a defense of his breadcrumb, but still nothing about the discrepancy around his reads in this game. Don't like it.

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

I kind of need to back pedal. I originally had my list order right, with the nod to Gene possibly as turk, Moat as possible Shinra. Moat may not be scum, and I'd be ok switching off of him if someone else I found scummy became the target.

The nod to Gene as turk hinges entirely on a comment from Gulag and how he was digging into to tithin, and rereading it, it is not the subtle communication I thought it was.

It's weak.

That whole post was weak, which is why I apologized for my drive by posts.

I started playing the game today. It doesn't excuse the bad posts leading up to today, but I just wasn't in a good headspace to play any yesterday and was involved with Fate stuff(which I also subbed into).

Okay, I'll buy this re: the Gene thing. Feels genuine to me.

-----------

TL:DR: watching KB (and would like to hear more about how he missed that picture?), suspicious of both B- and Moat. I think the B- thing unfortunately takes care of itself if he's really town, for as much as he revealed about his role, but would happily dunk him in a day or two if he's still around. For now, though, I like ##vote Moat better (and it rhymes).

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)

That was a bunch to type out on phone and it's late so I'm going to bed. Will try to be around early in the day tomorrow before work heats up.

Asphyxious
Jun 25, 2012

I'm trying to explain that I'm a person who wishes to live a very quiet life.
Truth Quark

Day one:
- soft flavour claim “into some hardcore poo poo,” , literally no idea.
- Votes bif (current vote leader) saying “lynch her before she goes crazy!” lovely thing to say, bad vote.
- Votes Tobbs (new vote leader) “gut read”. Weak, again piggybacking.
- Jokes around with Tithin (now confirmed scum)
- Votes me when I point out he’s bandwagoning
- Jokes with Tithin again. Why the focus on Tithin?
- Makes a second “Bif is so crazy” comment, again feels like scum trying to do an undermining meta attack, not someone engaging in good faith.
- Claims he’s looking forward to his flip proving my analysis wrong, incredibly common scum response to getting pinged.
- Takes a dig at me and Bifauxnen (there it is again) for making scum calls d1.
- Takes a dig at me for being too certain, says town players should hedge their language and their calls.
- Sticks up for flerp.
- Joke votes YPM for saying “Jester”. Joke phase is essentially over by this point so not a fan of this kind of content.
- Gets supremely confident when I call him out again. Not sure about this one, options are: defensive/town-possible role/solid flavour claim/fakeclaim. No idea. Confidence here is weird.
- Asks questions about people being scum or 3P. Says he has a theory about pod but is going to sit on it. Lots of lurking around arguments, not actually putting any real thoughts forward.
- Says juchero is probably town
- Light shade (joke) on TM, post the dayvig.
- Actual content from TQ! He posits that because Pod is asking questions but not following up lines of inquiry, he’s fake scum hunting. Two things with this; it’s not necessarily so, some people throw stuff out then see what the responses are and work from there, two.... what the gently caress has TQ done to accuse someone else of not scum hunting? No one seems to pick up on the staggering hypocrisy of this claim. This changes! His conclusion is pod is probably scum, so he votes for.... NGO. Claiming that he’s following Bif’s case on them. After TQ has been pretty consistently throwing shade on Bif. AND it’s another piggyback vote.
- YPM calls TQ out on this!!! TQ’s only Defense is “actually I am posting to hunt scum”, literally no evidence of this. He claims the questions about 3P stuff was looking for a scum gotcha.
- YPM blindly accepts this explanation, weirdly. Thought YPM would catch that TQ’s claim of activity didn’t mesh with his actual content. Maybe he read something into the tone.
- TQ says he wants to hear more from AA but Hal gets a pass as he’s normally better later in the game. I feel better in this case is a relative value as I’ve only ever seen Hal lurk right the way through.
- TQ claims he’s been making original cases with his own analysis. He hasn’t.
- TQ starts spouting overly familiar stuff about me and how I play scum. I claim at the time it sounds like an Auspoller is feeding him lines. Lo and behold, Tithin flips scum.
- Calls little Mac out for saying lovely stuff to Bif based on previous games. More hypocrisy.
- Calls out a list of people who need to contribute more. DB at top of list. Not sure how I feel about that, as I’m pretty sure he’s on Tithin’s scum team, which DB was also on.
- Votes for DB, then defends the shift to DB when b-minus gets upset about it.

By the end of Day one,I’m convinced Quark is scum. He’s consistently lied about his contributions and demonstrated nothing but a desire to jump on to other people’s votes, while having opinions so inconsistent that they are outright hypocritical. So far day 2 he’s been riding b-minus hard, who I also think is scum, so I think this is a member of the shinra scum team now aware of a second scum team switching to actual scumhunting now they know it’s an option.

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


##vote Asphyxious

I think I need to stick to my guns here. I was suss on him before and waiting for more signs that I could be wrong. This TQ effortpost hasn't done it.

I was looking at TQ from the start too, of course. But I'll be the first to admit it was a shaky stretch of a case built on the tiniest scraps of whatever we could find D1. I got no qualms about charging forward with the best D1 poo poo I got even if it's still poo poo. But when D2 comes along and people got a little more clue what they're doing, I think that content should be weighted a bit more highly than the awkward D1 scraps.

Instead, Gaspy seems to be actively looking for reasons to cling onto an outdated case. He even admits a bit in his effortpost that it doesn't quite add up:

Asphyxious posted:


- Calls out a list of people who need to contribute more. DB at top of list. Not sure how I feel about that, as I’m pretty sure he’s on Tithin’s scum team, which DB was also on.

So far day 2 he’s been riding b-minus hard, who I also think is scum, so I think this is a member of the shinra scum team now aware of a second scum team switching to actual scumhunting now they know it’s an option.

That big list of points, mimicing the GeneX style, also looks like him trying to work through a way to literally manufacture the case. I know it cramps Gaspy's style to lock him too hard into a meta, but right now, he seems to be awkwardly caught between his old and new styles. I'm not saying this to try and prove that because he isn't acting exactly as before, he's scum... I'm saying that the particular styles he's landed on here when I know he's capable of different ones seems to conveniently line up well with a scum objective.

Old Gaspy would just drop a vote and not bother to explain his methods, but arrogantly (I mean that only in the best way :cheeky: ) presume that people should follow his insightful forensic linguistic deductions if they want to catch a scum. He didn't care about getting bogged down trying to actively sway and convince people about it, though. He'd just stand by his one best vote without moving even if it led to a no-lunch, because it wasn't about even making the best game moves for a town win to him. It was about solving the puzzle, about being as right as he could be.

In this game he's not giving off much of that old attitude, but he's admitted himself how he is still using some of those voting mannerisms. It just so happens to neatly explain why he was allegedly fine with a DB lunch, but didn't lift a finger to actually help that switch get off the ground in the final hour.

In Shine V Gaspy proved he was capable of being much more cooperative, of explaining his thought process much more casually and naturally instead of being too secretive about it. And he cast a wide net, looking at multiple people at all times. He might not always look totally in-depth at everybody to the same extent, but he could share that process as it went along. Maybe just a quick comparison here and there, like how Cat sounded townie because her language sounded direct and honest, while pera sounded scummy for using far more obfuscation. Here, this big list of all these minute details of TQ seem more like justifying things to himself to try and "prove" the process is genuine, instead of actually being genuine. It doesn't feel as comfortable or natural, and he seems far more blinkered on TQ than he should be when there's a lot of potential scummy people to look at.

Overall, the way he's playing, regardless of whether he's done it before or not, feels more scummy than townie.

ok I think thats enough explaining!

Asphyxious
Jun 25, 2012

I'm trying to explain that I'm a person who wishes to live a very quiet life.
This is exactly the post I was expecting from you Bif after posts like this:

Bifauxnen posted:

I like where you ended up at the end of this post with suspecting Gaspy.

You’ve seemed from day one hunkered down on the idea I’m scum regardless of what I do, so although I think you’re town this game, I have no real interest in trying to prove myself to you. I think you’ll work it out in time but you’re actively searching for something that isn’t there.

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Asphyxious posted:

This is exactly the post I was expecting from you Bif after posts like this:


You’ve seemed from day one hunkered down on the idea I’m scum regardless of what I do, so although I think you’re town this game, I have no real interest in trying to prove myself to you. I think you’ll work it out in time but you’re actively searching for something that isn’t there.

agreed that trying to just go out to prove it to me specifically will probably backfire.

You should know its just the opposite though about thinking you're scum no matter what! I'm looking dor excuses to lunch anybody else first! :v: Just that TQ post really made me think I was right at start of day after all

Asphyxious
Jun 25, 2012

I'm trying to explain that I'm a person who wishes to live a very quiet life.
Nah I don’t believe that. But it’s all good. I’m confident in my read of TQ and B- so when they flip I’ve already won.

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Asphyxious posted:

Nah I don’t believe that. But it’s all good. I’m confident in my read of TQ and B- so when they flip I’ve already won.

hmmm, but if you don't believe that then why do you think I'm town?

but you dont need to answer, it's a rhetorical question to the thread :cheeky:

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Asphyxious
Jun 25, 2012

I'm trying to explain that I'm a person who wishes to live a very quiet life.

Bifauxnen posted:

hmmm, but if you don't believe that then why do you think I'm town?

but you dont need to answer, it's a rhetorical question to the thread :cheeky:

It’s because of posts like this, that seek more like you’re running a narrative about me rather than engaging with me. During day one I had this niggle in the back of my mind “is Bif fake-casing me?” and every interaction I’ve had with you since has just built on that and built on that. Fact is, linguistically you’re coming across town but the content in regards to me is well off and I haven’t worked out yet why.

My current theory is you’re in a 3P team with KB, but it’s only vague at the moment and I need more data.

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