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Would take a 40% pay cut to work for the USGS so that checks out
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May 25, 2021 17:53
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App13 posted:In my agency the pathways interns are usually brought on as a gs-5, given a term for 3 years and made permanent after that. Thanks for the insight. It's a 7/12 ladder, so if all goes well, the best-case scenario is stepping up to a GS-9 in a few months and conversion. I work for a sub-agency of DOE that makes its own money, so budget usually isn't an issue after asking around.
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May 25, 2021 18:24
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EconOutlines posted:Thanks for the insight. It's a 7/12 ladder, so if all goes well, the best-case scenario is stepping up to a GS-9 in a few months and conversion. In that case I would have no anxiety at all. Pretty much should be a rubber stamping type deal Also that sounds like the life, in terms of funding. In contrast I peddle my services to oyster farmers and niche interest groups in hopes of securing enough funding to stay employed
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May 25, 2021 21:12
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Goodpancakes posted:Would take a 40% pay cut to work for the USGS so that checks out "OH YEAH? I WOULD WORK FOR TIPS" drat, I concede
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May 25, 2021 22:48
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So I'm going to start looking at getting a job with the Feds (D.C. based) finally after spending 11 years in the private sector. It's been awhile since I've seriously applied to anything on USA Jobs so I'm gonna reformat my resume as I apply to stuff but I'm still not entirely sure what the best way to do so is. I'm learning now that apparently plastering the announcement number all over your resume and required docs is a thing now so I'm taking that into account. Having said all that, I found this guys template for USA Jobs postings on Reddit (shutup) and it seems like it's cromulent enough for what I need. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_PtqI2rsmWUYVfZHbuZckAwUlSut9SzBWoc4uMkvI0w/edit Any opinions/advice on the above?
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May 26, 2021 00:04
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The template looks fine. USAJobs will build it for you. Key is to not be too afraid of being verbose, and make sure your resume answers the key qualifications requested in the application. Fudging things to get the terminology right is fine, e.g. very few places in private industry “brief” things, but it’s all that ever happens for presentations in government. It’s important to note that many organizations are taking advantage of new hiring authorizations and going outside of USAJobs. Looking on LinkedIn is good, also if there’s a particular agency you’re interested in see if they have a presence on social media, they may post openings through Yello.co or some other job board service.
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May 26, 2021 00:31
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Handsome Ralph posted:Any opinions/advice on the above? Don't give a poo poo about some resume document format, you're just going to wind up having to copy/paste it all into the proprietary USAJobs site anyway. Look at the fields on the USAJobs resume builder and write to those. Get a nice brief default one done up and then copy it and alter it for each new position. MAKE SURE YOU USE EVERY STUPID BUZZWORD AND PHRASE IN THE REQUIREMENTS LIST OR YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME. The goal of your resume is to get past the HR screening process without it looking too poo poo, and then use your interview to wow the hiring manager. If the manager never sees your resume because you got screened out by HR for not getting enough points on the rubric, you lost before you even started.
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May 26, 2021 01:07
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On the subject of ladders, for everyone, not necessarily the last guy: LADDERS ARE A FAKE IDEA Ladders are an excuse to pay you less and keep you motivated. They aren't a requirement. There's no law. They're just an illusion woven so that you won't notice that actual promotions and raises aren't a real thing in fed work. You are going to be doing the same dumb work at the end of your ladder as you were at the beginning. And the agency already budgeted at the full rate anway. Take every last dime you can get. You are qualified enough for the end of the ladder. Push hard to get the highest grade you can swing, if they won't give you more grades, ask for steps. Once you're in, see how you qualify for step increases as awards. They do exist. Not every agency or every job still issues them, but they can be done, and someone will know how. poo poo, even if they "don't exist" you can bet your rear end management has been hi-fiving themselves and giving them to each other for years. Be jaded. Be opportunistic. But most importantly, be your best advocate. Get that paper.
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May 26, 2021 01:13
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ixo posted:I hired pathways folks a couple of times in USDA. The goal was always to keep them, but there was a nice jettison mechanism built into the program for those who didn't do well. I overall hated the program because it narrowed my applicant pool by a lot. How so? Were you required (in reality or de facto) to prioritize them?
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May 26, 2021 01:48
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Beerdeer posted:When I started with the gov, I was FCIP, which was similar. Half of USCIS was at one point until we all converted en masse. I’ve never seen anyone not convert. I also got my start in government in the old FCIP program, but I was converted before I ever start at USCIS. Last year, when USCIS was having our financial troubles and we were all in furlough limbo, we were unable to convert any Pathways people for about 6 months or so. We lost some good junior people when their programs ended, and supervisors were PISSED because no one had seen the situation coming; people had been led to believe they would just convert automatically. Just something to be aware of, though I doubt any other agency would have such a bonkers funding issue like that. Lady Bureaucrazy fucked around with this message at 03:04 on May 26, 2021 |
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May 26, 2021 03:02
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Goodpancakes posted:Would take a 40% pay cut to work for the USGS so that checks out 
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May 26, 2021 03:34
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GD_American posted:How so? Were you required (in reality or de facto) to prioritize them? the job I was hiring for preferred but did not require a degree. If my bosses got a wild hair and decided to do a pathways listing, then only recent grads could apply to that particular announcement. there would be times where I knew people that wanted to apply, but had either graduated 5+ years ago or had a bunch of experience and no degree-- those people can't apply to pathways announcements. it may be possible to have a pathways announcement that non-recent grads can put in for, but if so my bosses didn't do that.
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May 26, 2021 13:56
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Thank you both, I appreciate it! My plan is to start applying over the next few weeks. I'm going out of the country for three weeks next month but something tells me it won't matter because I remember the last time I went through this process it took months for any kind of word to get back to me. I've also got a friend at a sub agency that mentioned they are in need of influx of PM's and they'd look into getting my resume viewed if at all possible, so maybe that'll work out.
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May 26, 2021 13:59
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What is it about the USGS exactly that has people so jazzed to work there? The scientific rigor and competence? The value of the work? Getting to be outdoors? I've been at the USGS since 2016 and I've seen a lot of people come and go. Some just aren't content with sagebrush steppe ecosystems or fire science more generally, organization and communication in my lab is chaotic at best, my PI is big shot in the field who's equally as intense as he is demanding, and some people just can't abide the lack of supervision or not having someone to tell them what they should be doing on a regular basis. Most seem view it as a stepping stone to something better, very few of those people stick around long enough to build a competitive level of experience. I love it here for these same reasons but I don't feel like these things are broadly applicable to the agency as a whole, they seem more unique to my lab specifically. I've always thought that I'd lucked into a really good gig but I have terminal impostor syndrome and exceptionally low expectations for myself, so I don't know that I can judge the quality of my career too objectively.
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May 27, 2021 03:09
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I think a lot of geologists do academic geology, then hit the wall of what a career in private sector geology is like for the majority. I imagine, from the people in the USGS i've spoken to, that you can still find a career doing some geology that started you in the field originally.
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May 27, 2021 05:50
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For my office (a water resource center) it seems to be a combination between the work/life balance, working outdoors, and the freedom to forge your own destiny to some degree. I managed to form a relationship with a marine archeology group, so now 2-3 times a year I get to go out and help dive for shipwrecks and literal sunken treasure with some VERY interesting people. (And that’s as a GS-6) Definitely lots of churn in the surveying section, but the water quality networks and ecosystem assessment units seems to hold onto people pretty well. Also seems to be pretty hard to get environmental science jobs in general, and the private sector is not known for treating their employees well.
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May 27, 2021 14:44
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App13 posted:(And that’s as a GS-6) There's a correlation there. Sounds like your whole agency needs a recalibration on grades. Y'all deserve better money for that.
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May 27, 2021 15:22
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Could not agree more. Folks with bachelors degrees are being brought in as 2’s or 3, 5’s if they’re lucky. Meanwhile people I graduated college with that work for the EPA are 9’s or 11’s. I get a little cheddar from military disability so I can live okay, but I don’t know how my coworkers can afford to live
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May 27, 2021 15:42
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Toshimo posted:There's a correlation there. Sounds like your whole agency needs a recalibration on grades. Y'all deserve better money for that. Nah, it's by design. Need to have lots of different layers of sedimentary deposit for certain formations.
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May 27, 2021 16:29
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Man, I must have a skewed perception of the pay scale. People in my office are 12s doing what I'd view as journeyman work. I don't get how anyone could work for the gov below a 7, and I live in a low CoL area..
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May 27, 2021 16:37
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App13 posted:Could not agree more. Folks with bachelors degrees are being brought in as 2’s or 3, 5’s if they’re lucky
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May 27, 2021 16:45
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App13 posted:Folks with bachelors degrees are being brought in as 2’s or 3, 5’s if they’re lucky. A GS 3 step-1 in "rest of United States" isn't even $15 dollars an hour. I thought the sub GS-5 grades had been phased out at most agencies.
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May 27, 2021 16:51
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laxbro posted:A GS 3 step-1 in "rest of United States" isn't even $15 dollars an hour. I thought the sub GS-5 grades had been phased out at most agencies. The non-surveying sections start at a 5 now-a-days, but the surveyors are brought on as absolutely low as possible. One guy leads teams/regional projects and is a 3. Has been for 4 years. I really really really really wish I was kidding Edit: and this is an office that gets almost a 30% locality adjustment, so not a low cost of living area App13 fucked around with this message at 16:57 on May 27, 2021 |
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May 27, 2021 16:54
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Federal pay absolutely needs to be overhauled, but Congress is the last group of people that I would trust to do it correctly.
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May 27, 2021 16:56
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App13 posted:The non-surveying sections start at a 5 now-a-days, but the surveyors are brought on as absolutely low as possible. One guy leads teams/regional projects and is a 3. Has been for 4 years. that is insane.
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May 27, 2021 16:57
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It’s the unfortunate reality of doing a job that many people would straight up volunteer to do for free. Much of our work is effectively the same as what an Audubon or watershed association would do, but those are non-profits and rarely offer paid positions. Enter a huge pool of environmental science graduates looking to get out in the field, and you are very quickly met with a race to the bottom. Doesn’t help that our previous director was a huge proponent of this broken hiring system.
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May 27, 2021 17:03
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TheMadMilkman posted:Federal pay absolutely needs to be overhauled, but Congress is the last group of people that I would trust to do it correctly. They already did it, every President starting with Clinton has just been too chickenshit to stop putting it off and now it would be a catastrophe for fepca to hit.
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May 27, 2021 17:23
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Conversely, do you think the job would lose its allure if it starts paying more?
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May 27, 2021 19:29
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I’m in the Forest Service and GS-3s are very much a thing. I started as a seasonal 3 and then got a permanent 3. I seriously considered not taking it but I ultimately decided it would be worth it for a year. I got a 5 after that, so I guess it was. I’ve never made any money in any of my previous jobs, so it wasn’t a big change for me. I was super excited to finally be making over 30k when I got my 5. That the government considers paying even less than that to be acceptable is totally insane. The work that the 3s and most of the 5s do is absolutely way above their grade level, but what are you going to do? I’m eligible for a higher level now and am definitely going to go for that ASAP even though I’ll be competing against tons of people with masters degrees. I’m able and willing to move basically anywhere though, which puts me in a better situation than a lot of people I know who basically have to hope something opens up nearby.
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May 27, 2021 20:08
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Beerdeer posted:Man, I must have a skewed perception of the pay scale. People in my office are 12s doing what I'd view as journeyman work. I don't get how anyone could work for the gov below a 7, and I live in a low CoL area..
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May 27, 2021 23:07
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wizardofloneliness posted:I’m in the Forest Service and GS-3s are very much a thing. I started as a seasonal 3 and then got a permanent 3. I seriously considered not taking it but I ultimately decided it would be worth it for a year. I got a 5 after that, so I guess it was. I’ve never made any money in any of my previous jobs, so it wasn’t a big change for me. I was super excited to finally be making over 30k when I got my 5. That the government considers paying even less than that to be acceptable is totally insane. The work that the 3s and most of the 5s do is absolutely way above their grade level, but what are you going to do? Seems like the USGS gets a lot of guys and gals come in from the forest service, and occasionally lose a few to them as well. The two agencies very much attract very much the same type of person. Parks service too. Mainly, we have had multiple people live in vans in the parking lot
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May 28, 2021 00:51
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App13 posted:Could not agree more. Folks with bachelors degrees are being brought in as 2’s or 3, 5’s if they’re lucky. Meanwhile people I graduated college with that work for the EPA are 9’s or 11’s. My new technician is literally living out of a van next to the river. We don't hire any lower than a GS-5 but the majority of technicians come on as GS-3 equivalent contractors for the first two years. I'm also a GS-6 as the lead field technician for my office with some light data management and project coordination responsibilities and I consider myself lucky to be paid as well as I am, especially being a technician primarily and only having a bachelor's degree. Some USGS trivia: my retirement plan is "die before the money runs out" written on a napkin, also I don't know of a single geologist who works here.
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May 28, 2021 00:56
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treat posted:My new technician is literally living out of a van next to the river. I can relate entirely to every word you just wrote and I don’t like it
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May 28, 2021 01:07
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Dr. Quarex posted:Never forget my friend who was training a group of GS-12s on L visas about two months into her bump to GS-7. And it is not like the promotion was even relevant, I have no doubt a 5 has been a trainer for a 12 at some point in a USCIS service center. During the pandemic shift to more digital processing, and diminishing filings we quickly had to train up people who had been in the same paper product for a decade into something digital... 5s and 7s mentoring atleast 12s over teams, teaching them teams, and keyboard shortcuts. All this while the spectre of furlough hung over the 5s and 7s, while the 12s they were hand holding through using a computer had megaseniority and were never going to be furloughed.
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May 28, 2021 01:29
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killer crane posted:During the pandemic shift to more digital processing, and diminishing filings we quickly had to train up people who had been in the same paper product for a decade into something digital... 5s and 7s mentoring atleast 12s over teams, teaching them teams, and keyboard shortcuts. All this while the spectre of furlough hung over the 5s and 7s, while the 12s they were hand holding through using a computer had megaseniority and were never going to be furloughed. it's also cool to remember that anyone hired before 2014 pays ~1/5 as much into the pension for the exact same benefits
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May 28, 2021 02:14
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Thesaurus posted:it's also cool to remember that anyone hired before 2014 pays ~1/5 as much into the pension for the exact same benefits That's true, but we're all crabs in that pot. Going from CSRS to FERS was the lousiest deal.
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May 28, 2021 02:16
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I came into the NBC as a 9, and after like a year they were shifting priorities so we needed to train a bunch of others on the product line we were working. Started putting together a quick training with myself, a 12 from our team, and a 12 from the other team that was already working the form. It took about 10 minutes before we figured out the 12 from the other team didn't know what the gently caress he was doing. Like, obviously, clearly not understanding fundamental things about the work.
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May 28, 2021 02:16
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I don't think I even interact with anybody lower than an 11 on a daily basis, although we aren't actually on GS. Then again I am at agency HQ, CFO office and its all budget/accounting/other financial mangement folks.
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May 28, 2021 02:46
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I considered applyig to tech positions at my home town USGS water science center but lmao a GS3 AND its competitive at that pay scale.
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May 28, 2021 07:18
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Do any of you have thoughts on how I should frame an email to an agency’s Schedule A hiring person / email address? Should I use my .gov email? For FEMA I can point to my being found qualified and referred to a hiring manager for a pretty broad IC 11 excepted service job last year. Their page on Schedule A stipulates you have to be qualified for the job and provide a letter, and then: quote:... send a resume, description of your career interests, your geographic preferences, and proof of disability to fema-schedule-a@fema.dhs.gov. I ended up getting in as a FEMA reservist (which is also excepted service), and if I ever get disaster deployed the money will be great, but something with regular hours sure would be nice. I also got referred to a competitive WG 7 Department of the Army job last year, so I figure their Schedule A contact is worth emailing, too. re: USGS, a friend of mine from my geology undergrad started there a few months ago now— up in Columbia, Missouri. he has a masters degree in geology! so at least some geologists end up there. I was mildly surprised when he said they just gave him an old laptop for work— FEMA threw a new pelican case, a touchscreen Dell laptop, and an iPhone XR at me during onboarding and all I’ve used them for is reading agency emails and clicking through learning modules. and I think EHP also wants to give us iPads because entering GIS data on an iPhone app apparently makes us look unprofessional and distracted? so that’s fun I was kind of under the impression that various levels of government get new electronics on the cheap. my old boss at TxDOT got an iPhone XR gratis as part of doing away with office phones. wolfs fucked around with this message at 11:22 on May 28, 2021 |
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May 28, 2021 11:18
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