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Majorian posted:How is it important information? Seriously, please answer this for me. Why is this such a make-or-break thing for you? Fire does not spreads that way naturally, as everyone knows. It is quite weird the way it happened. And that scene would just not work if it didint set the whole tent in fire in seconds, because then the khals would have just immobilized her and it would be all over Somebody coating the floor with something flammable is just as good as an explanation as Dany having magical fire controlling powers, as someone suggested. Either way, it wanst explained and it probably never will. There is no explanation. The ones who wrote the scene probably never even considered that it needed a explanation. Its just a dumb way for her to (again) get away doing something supposedly clever and awesome. Is not that important, but there is nothing wrong in noting out that it was indeed silly Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 20:35 on May 16, 2016 |
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May 16, 2016 20:32
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Skimmed through the last few pages but didn't find anything...do we have any spoilers on the High Sparrow?
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May 16, 2016 20:35
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Elias_Maluco posted:I also love that for the scene to make any sense at all (the fire spreading through the hut that fast) we have to imagine something that wanst show or hinted in any way (Jorah and Daaario coating the floor with something flamable before the meeting) and will never be explained by the show. I mean, now the same people who like to be smug and lord over Show-watchers not getting it are literally not getting it. Dany tells Jorah and Daario the scene before she needs them to do something for her. It's not just locking the doors.
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May 16, 2016 20:36
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Elias_Maluco posted:Fire does not spreads that way naturally, as everyone knows. It is quite weird the way it happened. And that scene would just not work if it didint set the whole tent in fire in seconds, because then the khals would have just immobilized her and it would be all over So you're quibbling with the physics of a show that has literal dragons, zombies, and magic?
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May 16, 2016 20:36
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Has there ever been a society where people get promoted through being the strongest and killing their predecessor? Not in a Ottoman Empire kind of way but a Klingon kind of way. This trope's been showing up a lot in recent years and I was wondering if there was any real-life basis for it. Cause it doesn't sound like a very stable political model. Also if we're going to be pedantic, the Dothraki do everything important under the open sky so it stands to reason they wouldn't have the Khal Vesvevhensvehn in a tent anyway...or have Dany ritualistically eat a horse-heart indoors... Everything about the scene was dumb in one way or another but it's loads better than dicking around in Mereen forever MrSlam fucked around with this message at 20:43 on May 16, 2016 |
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May 16, 2016 20:39
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I love how the Khals, warrior lords who have burnt down countless villages, become weak and frightened when Dany decides to slowly push down some fire stands. It was a really solid episode until that point, I was totally dumbstruck that that was the way they decided to end it. I don't even care that Dany is apparently fireproof, the way the scene was exectuted just emphasised her plot armour.
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May 16, 2016 20:40
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They should've showed Jorah standing over a clay jar that says "OIL" on it, and then he winks and gives a thumbs up to the camera.
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May 16, 2016 20:41
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Majorian posted:So you're quibbling with the physics of a show that has literal dragons, zombies, and magic? It always comes down to this eventually Actually you were the one trying to make sense of a dumb thing in a dumb show with "dragons, zombies, and magic". I was just saying "yeah its dumb but its ok" Lycus posted:They should've showed Jorah standing over a clay jar that says "OIL" on it, and then he winks and gives a thumbs up to the camera. Id bet they would have done something like that if that was really what was supposed to have happened
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May 16, 2016 20:42
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Majorian posted:So you're quibbling with the physics of a show that has literal dragons, zombies, and magic? Congrats on pushing the goalpost to its final resting place. So if Jon Snow just decided to fly like Superman to Winterfell and kill everyone with laser eyes, would you complain? I mean, the show has dragons so therefore it doesn't have to match reality in any way.
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May 16, 2016 20:43
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Elias_Maluco posted:Id bet they would have done something like that if that was really what was supposed to have happened
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May 16, 2016 20:46
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Elias_Maluco posted:Actually you were the one trying to make sense of a dumb thing in a dumb show with "dragons, zombies, and magic". I was just saying "yeah its dumb but its ok" I proposed a possibility and you're arguing like crazy against it. You did say "yeah its dumb but its ok," but then you seem to have kind of changed your tune since then. Unzip and Attack posted:So if Jon Snow just decided to fly like Superman to Winterfell and kill everyone with laser eyes, would you complain? Yes, those two things are 100% the same degree of breaking with the show's bonds of reality. 
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May 16, 2016 20:48
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Majorian posted:Yes, those two things are 100% the same degree of breaking with the show's bonds of reality. So physics matter and don't matter to you simultaneously depending on whether or not it allows you to defend everything about the show. Got it.
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May 16, 2016 20:51
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Majorian posted:Jesus didn't tend to perform miracles in front of Jewish or Roman authorities. He also didn't have a reputation as a violent conqueror, as Dany does, nor did he nuke the Sanhedrin and then walk out of the Temple unscathed. Jesus was a petulant dick to fig trees, though. Westboro Baptist really misinterpreted Mark 11.
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May 16, 2016 20:53
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The season is alright, it's not the worst poo poo ever but it isn't as excellent as it was in early seasons. They mostly seem to be trying to repeat earlier high points over and over which is why you have 5 or 6 "POV shot of person being attacked and their friend stabs the attacker through the back of the head/neck" shots within the first 4 episodes, not to mention main character deaths and heel turns every few episodes or more. I still like the show but mostly just hate some of the laziness of how they are handling things, my prime example being Ramsay. I keep comparing Ramsay to Joffrey in my head. Joffrey was a great villain because despite being an incompetent friendless poo poo himself, he was surrounded by an infrastructure that held him up. He would do something evil that people hated, then something dumb that would blow up in his face so we could laugh at his stupidity then someone would fix it and he would be smug about it and we would be frustrated. The people who surrounded him mostly hated him or were just doing their jobs but weren't usually in a position to do anything about it. It was intriguing poo poo because there were a lot of puzzle pieces and you were waiting to see which one would eventually fall, who he would finally piss off or how dumb he could eventually get. Ramsay just wins, wins, wins no matter what. They're trying to make a version of Joffrey that is also hyper competent and cunning and a good fighter and it just comes off cheesy and lame since it relies on everyone around him being morons or else wanting to help him succeed for no discernible reason. I do hate to be one of these "the book is better" nerds, but in the book Roose explains that he knows Ramsay will kill his trueborn son at the very first opportunity and as a result he would never put himself in a position to be cheap shotted by Ramsay. TV Roose just goes to hug a psychopath for no drat reason. Littlefinger is supposed to be a master of intrigue but then he gives away his prize chess piece to the family that flays people alive and in the next few episodes we're going to get a lame "gee I didn't realize these guys were that bad" apology from him. Yara doesn't throw an axe into the chest of the shirtless guy standing 10 yards from the dog cages. The Umbers and Karstarks want to help Ramsay for seemingly no reason (like why did Karstark want Roose dead? Didn't Roose arrange the Red Wedding and effectively get revenge on Robb?) The list goes on, this guy is a dangerous psychopath who is torturing people and going to get others killed but nobody will just poison him or stab him in his sleep, on the contrary they give him 20 good men and keep trusting him to not gently caress them over and he keeps doing it over and over and over again. It makes for a boring lovely story because every Ramsay scene you are waiting for him to say something smug and win and at this point, even if we didn't have a leaked season synopsis, it is obvious he wont' be defeated until the season finale. Look forward to 6 more episodes of this poo poo at least (I'm sure if the rumor that he won't be killed are true he will find a way to break out of prison or whatever and do some laughably evil stuff next season).
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May 16, 2016 20:56
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Unzip and Attack posted:So physics matter and don't matter to you simultaneously depending on whether or not it allows you to defend everything about the show. Got it.  No, physics do matter, especially in a low fantasy setting like ASOIAF/GoT. The creators set the rules, and if the writing's good, it will hopefully operate within those bands, more or less. But I'm not seeing why the Dothraki having some sort of flammable liquid lying around somewhere is a transgression of those bounds.geeves posted:Jesus was a petulant dick to fig trees, though. Westboro Baptist really misinterpreted Mark 11. Take that, figs.
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May 16, 2016 20:56
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MrSlam posted:Has there ever been a society where people get promoted through being the strongest and killing their predecessor? Not in a Ottoman Empire kind of way but a Klingon kind of way. This trope's been showing up a lot in recent years and I was wondering if there was any real-life basis for it. Cause it doesn't sound like a very stable political model. I just assume that there are all sorts of traditions, rules, and taboos about when and how somebody can make those kinds of challenges to a Khal, just like there are tons of rules and traditions (and backstabbing) that went into letting Robert replace Aerys or the Boltons replace the Starks. We don't know all of the dothraki customs because we don't need to, so it just looks like barbarians passing around a heavyweight title.
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May 16, 2016 20:58
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Majorian posted:So you're quibbling with the physics of a show that has literal dragons, zombies, and magic? It's been said before but writers establish a universe with rules in it. If they proceed to then violate those rules for the sake of the plot then it sticks out to the viewer. So Dany can live in a world with magic and dragons, but there are still rules that she has to abide by. If she gets cut she bleeds, if she doesn't get food or water she starves. If she's immolated she'll walk it off, but others won't. Making her somehow able to control fire because she's a Targaryan comes across as fake and forced for the sake of the plot. Dany probably had help setting up the hut to catch fire beforehand, and that would be a more acceptable explanation than "well she has dragons and there are zombies so why not this too?"
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May 16, 2016 20:58
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the prop department didn't make oil lamps quite large enough in a scene for me to believe, and i want to argue about it for 4 pages
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May 16, 2016 20:59
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Elias_Maluco posted:I also love that for the scene to make any sense at all (the fire spreading through the hut that fast) we have to imagine something that wanst show or hinted in any way (Jorah and Daaario coating the floor with something flamable before the meeting) and will never be explained by the show. 1. The reason people make fun of posts like these is because you say things like "for the scene to make any sense at all". Do you not realize that it is a ridiculous exaggeration to say that the scene 'makes no sense at all' because the fire was too quick? It's so exaggerated that it immediately makes your argument come across as nitpicking nonsense. The scene makes sense. Maybe it would be 'more realistic' if the fire spread more slowly and if the Khals attacked her and if other things happened, but then it wouldn't be the same scene. It would be a different scene, with a different meaning. 2. The whole plan is supposed to be a surprise, for dramatic purposes. This is why, even if they had doused the whole place in gasoline, we wouldn't have seen it. Basic narrative resource. 3. The reason why the fire spreads fast is because the speed at which fire spreads in a Dothraki hut is less important than the pacing and rhythm of the scene. It is also less important than the thematic concerns. 4. People are 'great' at filling gaps because fiction is not supposed to show you everything. You seem unaware of this. I'm pretty sure you actually made a post scoffing at Sansa not asking Jon bout his resurrection. Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 21:02 on May 16, 2016 |
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May 16, 2016 20:59
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The torches were filled with oil. As soon as they got knocked over that oil spread pretty quickly around, as oil is want to do. It was on fire, so little flaming drops went flying everywhere as the puddle of flame ran around. The whole hut was built of wood, straw, and other flammable poo poo.
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May 16, 2016 21:00
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Majorian posted:
No one is saying "the Dothraki have no oil". What we're saying is that you're having to invent a story in your head to make what happened on screen make any sense. A story that is not supported by anything we saw in the show. Simultaneously, the showrunners made it a point to show us on camera that someone had barricaded the doors from outside, which completely explains the "I need your help" line because once the fires start, Jorah and Dreamypants are already WAY outside the city which means the girl is the one who barricaded the door. It's a huge leap to think that the girl got a large amount of flammable liquid and spread it around stealthily in a room full of rapey khals without being noticed. You're having to make poo poo up and that's bad writing. But maybe you can tell us more about how Talisa was actually a Lannister spy. Pedro De Heredia posted:4. People are 'great' at filling gaps because fiction is not supposed to show you everything. You seem unaware of this. I'm pretty sure you actually made a post scoffing at Sansa not asking Jon bout his resurrection. No one is saying we needed to literally see the act. But even the smallest hint of it i.e. Dany looking at a lit brazier or a torch or anything while saying she needs help would have been enough if that's what the writers wanted. Instead we get instant conflagration and the khals just letting it happen. Not one of them even tries to get at Dany because she of course somehow surrounds them with insta-flame and wooden floors burst into flame when hot coals are dropped on them. LOL Unzip and Attack fucked around with this message at 21:07 on May 16, 2016 |
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May 16, 2016 21:02
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Majorian posted:So you're quibbling with the physics of a show that has literal dragons, zombies, and magic? Nah it was dumb. I've never been much of a fantasy dude, so I like the way GoT does magic, which is sparingly and with tons of exposition. Unless we're told otherwise, there's steel and then there's valyrian steel. Or there's fire and then there's wildfire. So that's never been a good argument for immersion-breaking scenes I just think they could have written or shot it with a little more cleverness
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May 16, 2016 21:03
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Narmi posted:It's been said before but writers establish a universe with rules in it. If they proceed to then violate those rules for the sake of the plot then it sticks out to the viewer. We're 100% in agreement, then - I never argued that she has fire control or anything like that.
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May 16, 2016 21:04
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colonel_korn posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQ5QtQ59Nc8 i guess the night king is gonna touch warg Bran and find out the tree location like one of the spoilers said lol
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May 16, 2016 21:04
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Fire spreads fast in an environment that is filled with accelerants. A big hut could go up in flames very quickly because of the way it was built. The last torch gets tossed onto the Khal at the door right as the fire flashes over.
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May 16, 2016 21:04
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colonel_korn posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQ5QtQ59Nc8 I thought I saw zombie Loboda but nah, axe looks different.
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May 16, 2016 21:08
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Pedro De Heredia posted:1. The reason people make fun of posts like these is because you say things like "for the scene to make any sense at all". Do you not realize that it is a ridiculous exaggeration to say that the scene 'makes no sense at all' because the fire was too quick? It's so exaggerated that it immediately makes your argument come across as nitpicking nonsense. 1. it makes no sense because if the fire didint spread that fast, all those khals would time to prevent her from setting the whole place ablaze and the plan would have failed 2. sure. for the plan to work the doors also needed to be barred, and the guards outside killed. And that the show did show, after the fire already started, to explain why the khals would just not flee. They dont explain the fire filling the whole tent in seconds because they didnt think it needed an explanation 3. no, it is not. see 1 4. yeah I do find a bit weird that she would not comment on such an amazing fact. But ok, perhaps she did it before. But if the show doest not explained why the fire would spread so fast and did explained why the people inside wanst able to leave (both equally important for this plan to work), it is probably because the writers never though about it, or didnt care Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 21:14 on May 16, 2016 |
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May 16, 2016 21:09
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It'd have been funny if they all just splattered on the floor and immediately went out.
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May 16, 2016 21:10
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StopHangingDjs posted:Are we supposed to be rooting for Dany to bring a huge army of raping, slaving, barbarians to civilization? Cause that seems like a bad time for a lot of the people Danny's trying to help We were all supposed to support Jon Snuh when he did the same thing, and this thread was outraged at Thorne for thinking that may not have been an awesome idea.
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May 16, 2016 21:12
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It's funny that people are trying to make it out like Dany was going back to her roots in season 1 with this scene, while she really solves any problem with setting things on fire, beginning with Mirri Maz Duur, than the House of the Undying, than the masters in Astapor and the masters in Mereen last season. The only difference is that D&D decided that Dany should have a scene in which she is a strong independent woman that does need no dragon (I'm not making this up, they said so in the inside the episode video) which is why it happened they way it did.
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May 16, 2016 21:15
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The Little Kielbasa posted:We were all supposed to support Jon Snuh when he did the same thing, and this thread was outraged at Thorne for thinking that may not have been an awesome idea. Jon Snow isn't bringing his peeps for the stated goal of taking the throne. Big difference I think.
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May 16, 2016 21:16
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Is there even a single actual likable character left in this show? I guess Tyrion is funny and the Stark kids have had pretty poo poo lives but drat...
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May 16, 2016 21:18
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I'm not surprised that the khals did not want to run through a pool of liquid fire to get at Dany. There was a giant flaming oil puddle between them and her and as she knocked over more poo poo, the oil puddle grew. It wouldn't take much to burn down a giant wood/straw hut.
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May 16, 2016 21:20
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El Hefe posted:Is there even a single actual likable character left in this show? Davos is a cool dude. Sure his actions don't make any loving sense anymore but he's still likable. Also Edd is cool and Tormund is mega cool.
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May 16, 2016 21:21
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El Hefe posted:Is there even a single actual likable character left in this show? Varys.  Also I like High Sparrow, even if I'm not happy with the homophobia or slut-shaming. And Brienne is always good, I'll Ser Robert Strong-mash anybody who says otherwise.
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May 16, 2016 21:24
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The Little Kielbasa posted:We were all supposed to support Jon Snuh when he did the same thing, and this thread was outraged at Thorne for thinking that may not have been an awesome idea. Jon was saving those people from certain death and revival as others. The Dothraki weren't in imminent danger. One is a heroic action, the other is a despotic one.
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May 16, 2016 21:25
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From a Sophie Turner interviewquote:People can kind of assume that Sansa’s very much like her mother and her mother wasn’t very fond of Jon. But Sansa is also different from her mother so she tries her best. She’s been through so much. She knows Jon is her older brother and Davos is older and wiser, but she’s probably been through more than both of them. She’s not just going to go along with other people’s decisions.” Rape is worse than actually getting stabbed to death or all the poo poo Davos went through (losing parts of his fingers, the generally not so nice live of being a smuggler, losing his child), dunno if I would agree with her judgement on that issue.
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May 16, 2016 21:27
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Majorian posted:We're 100% in agreement, then - I never argued that she has fire control or anything like that. Cool, but my point was that when you're arguing with someone, saying "who cares, it's a magic universe," is a poor defense and you need to come up with something better to support your side.
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May 16, 2016 21:29
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Mr. Nice! posted:I'm not surprised that the khals did not want to run through a pool of liquid fire to get at Dany. There was a giant flaming oil puddle between them and her and as she knocked over more poo poo, the oil puddle grew. It wouldn't take much to burn down a giant wood/straw hut. This and they didn't know that the doors were barred. They probably assumed "Whoah, she's crazy" and decided to book it out of the hut and figured she would just burn to death anyway, if they even thought that far ahead. More likely they thought "FIRE." In any scenario, that is the correct solution to a rapidly spreading fire.
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May 16, 2016 21:29
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GaussianCopula posted:The only difference is that D&D decided that Dany should have a scene in which she is a strong independent woman that does need no dragon (I'm not making this up, they said so in the inside the episode video) which is why it happened they way it did. So D&D have given her comic book powers now, because having a globally unique connection to the most powerful creatures on the planet isn't enough. Nice.
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May 16, 2016 21:32
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