|
Majorian posted:Why does this matter to you? The event at the end of Book/Season 1 is special because it's a singular thing that required a poo poo ton of variables to be "just right" in order to happen. If you don't think that "Dany emerges from a pyre and all the brown people bow to her" is a plot device with diminishing returns then Jesus loving Christ I don't know what to tell you. If she finds another big khalasar and does it again would you be ok with it? How about 3 more times? tin can made man posted:Why does criticism of the show get called retarded and get this huge pushback of people convinced the show is still good, it's as good as it's ever been, everything that's happening is Good and Great and Perfect right now Some people are contrarian assholes? Unzip and Attack fucked around with this message at 19:31 on May 16, 2016 |
#
?
May 16, 2016 19:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 14:59 |
|
|
Why does criticism of the show get called retarded and get this huge pushback of people convinced the show is still good, it's as good as it's ever been, everything that's happening is Good and Great and Perfect right now I invested as much time into this show as anyone else and was disappointed just as much. It's okay to like a show and laugh at the stupid parts like them trying to mirror a scene from the end of season 1 where the onset circumstances were Tremendous (a dead khal's body, a burning maegi, the soaring of a comet, dragon eggs) and the outcome was Small (the dregs of drogo's khalasar follow Dany), but now mind-bogglingly reversed (she knocks over some fire, is immune to it which I guess she has been the whole time; now literally every Dothraki worships her). I mean, I believe it happened, but it was literally making Dany Queen of the Browns in as few and simple steps as possible. Makes sense, from the writers perspective I guess: Why work at a script when fans have 4 years of goodwill built up and will defend it regardless?
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 19:30
|
|
|
*Jon and Sansa re-unite Jon: "hey, I was kinda murdered a few days ago, left outside to rot, and resurrected by this witch over here. Also, there is an army of undead coming" Sansa: "cool story bro. Wanna help me retake Winterfell?" Jon: "didn't you just hear what I.... Sansa: "ugh. just say no if you dont want to" Jon "Fine, I'll do it if you're going to nag." Sansa "No, now I dont want you to"
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 19:32
|
|
|
Elias_Maluco posted:Well, I havent saw the trailer (got a link, by the way?). If that happens than Im ok with it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI0ib1NErqg&t=20s
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 19:32
|
|
|
tin can made man posted:Why does criticism of the show get called retarded and get this huge pushback of people convinced the show is still good, it's as good as it's ever been, everything that's happening is Good and Great and Perfect right now jesus christ
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 19:33
|
|
|
Cygni posted:jesus christ Yes how dare that guy actually think about the TV he watches and post about it in the thread dedicated to discussing the show. KAHLLESI KICKED rear end DUDES WHOOOAAAA OWNED LOOK AT HER BOOBS SO HOT
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 19:34
|
|
|
In It For The Tank posted:
In hindsight, having the protagonist of S5 and S6 casually murder a much-liked character from the first three seasons is a pretty apt metaphor for the progression of the show
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 19:36
|
|
|
Unzip and Attack posted:The event at the end of Book/Season 1 is special because it's a singular thing that required a poo poo ton of variables to be "just right" in order to happen. If you don't think that "Dany emerges from a pyre and all the brown people bow to her" is a plot device with diminishing returns then Jesus loving Christ I don't know what to tell you. The reviews for the episode, as well as most audience reaction that I can see online, was pretty positive. So it clearly wasn't 'diminishing returns' for most people. I'm not much of a fan of the return of the Dothraki but the circumstances of both fire scenes are different enough to be interesting (leader vs. captive, seemingly external magic ritual vs. internal power and will) and it is character advancement: gaining her freedom and subjects through her own power rather than through dragons, armies, mercenary buddies, etc.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 19:37
|
|
|
Unzip and Attack posted:The event at the end of Book/Season 1 is special because it's a singular thing that required a poo poo ton of variables to be "just right" in order to happen. If you don't think that "Dany emerges from a pyre and all the brown people bow to her" is a plot device with diminishing returns then Jesus loving Christ I don't know what to tell you. It had a bit of diminishing returns, IMO, but I think the AV Club has a good point in its review: quote:But even as “Book Of The Stranger”—so-named for the one of the seven that people rarely pray to—demonstrates the value of diplomacy, it also ends with Daenerys going back to her old bag of tricks. Much as with the Starks’ reunion, Daenerys’ return to Vaes Dothrak is about coming full circle, and reflecting on the show’s past. And in a microcosm of the character’s journey thus far, she asserts her authority over those who wish to control her, uses fire to eliminate her enemies, and then stages a theatrical moment amidst the flames that only adds to her growing legacy. There is no diplomacy here, replaced with theatricality and a belief in the power of shock and awe. This scene was clearly intended as a look back at the past, as a mechanism for showing how much the characters have grown. Dany's gone through a significant amount of character development since the end of chapter 1, and as that review illustrates pretty well, she knows what she's good at and what she's not good at. She's not particularly good at ruling the kingdoms that she conquers. But she's drat good at conquering them. So now she's getting a chance to do it over again, better this time, with more wisdom and experience guiding her. I obviously wouldn't be happy if she resorted to the same trick more than this second time, but I'm pretty sure the writers wouldn't do that. This time it served a thematic purpose. Unzip and Attack posted:Yes how dare that guy actually think about the TV he watches and post about it in the thread dedicated to discussing the show.  A lot of people are giving some very thoughtful responses to "that guy," but hey, keep having that tantrum that people dare like a thing.tin can made man posted:Why does criticism of the show get called retarded and get this huge pushback Think it might have to do with the tone of the people making those criticisms? Majorian fucked around with this message at 19:41 on May 16, 2016 |
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 19:37
|
|
|
Unzip and Attack posted:Yes how dare that guy actually think about the TV he watches and post about it in the thread dedicated to discussing the show. not liking the things that other people like, how brave
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 19:41
|
|
|
tin can made man posted:Why does criticism of the show get called retarded and get this huge pushback of people convinced the show is still good, it's as good as it's ever been, everything that's happening is Good and Great and Perfect right now People push back against criticism because they don't consider the criticism to be good. They consider it to be bad. Bad criticism. As in, it lacks substance, it lacks logic, it lacks understanding of fiction, it narrowly focused on plot mechanics (with a delusional belief that only the critic is correct in how these plot mechanics should play out) while often overlooking themes, and it makes all sort of tired and incredibly boring assumptions about how evil and lazy the writers are, etc. That kind of bad criticism.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 19:43
|
|
|
Majorian posted:
Yeah, "Jesus Christ" is an extremely nuanced response to an opinion. Cygni posted:not liking the things that other people like, how brave Yeah, the post we're talking about in which the person just says "I don't like this" and that's it. No strawmen here.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 19:43
|
|
|
Unzip and Attack posted:Yeah, "Jesus Christ" is an extremely nuanced response to an opinion. If it seems like the person is completely melting down over a scene that probably doesn't deserve it, it strikes me as appropriate.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 19:45
|
|
|
Majorian posted:If it seems like the person is completely melting down over a scene that probably doesn't deserve it, it strikes me as appropriate. tin can made man posted:It's okay to like a show and laugh at the stupid parts like them trying to mirror a scene from the end of season 1 where the onset circumstances were Tremendous (a dead khal's body, a burning maegi, the soaring of a comet, dragon eggs) and the outcome was Small (the dregs of drogo's khalasar follow Dany), but now mind-bogglingly reversed (she knocks over some fire, is immune to it which I guess she has been the whole time; now literally every Dothraki worships her). I mean, I believe it happened, but it was literally making Dany Queen of the Browns in as few and simple steps as possible. Makes sense, from the writers perspective I guess: Why work at a script when fans have 4 years of goodwill built up and will defend it regardless? = "completely melting down". Ok cool I guess I can safely not care about you actually wanting to discuss the show. Will save me a lot of time and effort so thanks.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 19:49
|
|
|
I still need a good summary of what happened last night.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 19:49
|
|
|
I also love that for the scene to make any sense at all (the fire spreading through the hut that fast) we have to imagine something that wanst show or hinted in any way (Jorah and Daaario coating the floor with something flamable before the meeting) and will never be explained by the show. People here are always really great in filling the obvious gaps the writers leave with something logical. We also had some great explanations about how the sad snakes got to materialize inside the boat in KL or how LF plan of giving Sansa to the Boltons was actually really clever.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 19:49
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQ5QtQ59Nc8 Goddamn Littlefinger gets around
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 19:50
|
|
|
it was a dumb scene, but not necessarily a bad one. It's just up there with ramsay and the sand snakes in the "how can we have the biggest result with the least amount of actual writing" laziness that has defined this season
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 19:51
|
|
|
tin can made man posted:it was a dumb scene, but not necessarily a bad one. It's just up there with ramsay and the sand snakes in the "how can we have the biggest result with the least amount of actual writing" laziness that has defined this season Pretty much. I actually did enjoyed it, I just said it was silly. Because it was, come on people
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 19:52
|
|
|
tin can made man posted:it was a dumb scene, but not necessarily a bad one. It's just up there with ramsay and the sand snakes in the "how can we have the biggest result with the least amount of actual writing" laziness that has defined this season Another complete meltdown. Calm down dude.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 19:53
|
|
|
Elias_Maluco posted:I also love that for the scene to make any sense at all (the fire spreading through the hut that fast) we have to imagine something that wanst show or hinted in any way (Jorah and Daaario coating the floor with something flamable before the meeting) and will never be explained by the show. They heavily alluded to it; were you just not actually watching the episode?
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 19:53
|
|
|
Who are the flayed, burning corpses in the trailer? Initially, we thought Roose/Walda, but nope! Bran and Osha? Why would they flay an already dead Osha, and isn't Rickon going to be shot? So who does that leave?
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 19:54
|
|
|
Majorian posted:They heavily alluded to it; were you just not actually watching the episode? Seriously, when exactly? I might have missed it, I really dont remember it
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 19:54
|
|
|
Unzip and Attack posted:Yeah, "Jesus Christ" is an extremely nuanced response to an opinion. i dont want to long post with obvious contrarian posters desperate to argue about anything/everything concerning a television show, specifically a television show based on a book about mystical dragons and magic spells and rape. sorry. plenty of other people seem willing to humor you on your bullshit, though
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 19:54
|
|
|
Majorian posted:They heavily alluded to it; were you just not actually watching the episode? How? Be specific. "The hut blew up super easily" is not an allusion to the place being stealthily soaked in oil by two guys who couldn't even walk around without being caught. Cygni posted:i dont want to long post with obvious contrarian posters desperate to argue about anything/everything concerning a television show, specifically a television show based on a book about mystical dragons and magic spells and rape. sorry. plenty of other people seem willing to humor you on your bullshit, though This is a really original justification for shitposting. So fresh.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 19:55
|
|
|
Unzip and Attack posted:How? Be specific. "The hut blew up super easily" is not an allusion to the place being stealthily soaked in oil by two guys who couldn't even walk around without being caught. They had that whole scene with Dany talking down Daario and Jorah from knifing the other ex-khaleesi and then saying, "Actually, I need your help..." How was it not clear in retrospect that Dany got her to spread ultra-flammable poo poo around the room?
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 19:57
|
|
|
Majorian posted:They had that whole scene with Dany talking down Daario and Jorah from knifing the other ex-khaleesi and then saying, "Actually, I need your help..." How was it not clear in retrospect that Dany got her to spread ultra-flammable poo poo around the room? Their help was to bar the doors and kill the guards standing by then. That is what the episode actually shows EDIT: and her help, I guess, was not telling everybody about the two armed guys infiltrated in the city Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 20:02 on May 16, 2016 |
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 19:58
|
|
|
Elias_Maluco posted:People here are always really great in filling the obvious gaps the writers leave with something logical. We also had some great explanations about how the sad snakes got to materialize inside the boat in KL or how LF plan of giving Sansa to the Boltons was actually really clever. There's an entire tumblr site dedicated to hating the show where they refer to this as "honeypotting" based on the theory that Talisa was a Lannister plant that I believe was first advanced by our very own In It For the Tank. quote:Honeypotting/The Honeypot Phenomenon: D&D Logic doesn’t adhere to normal logic, and it is not uncommon for the show to seem entirely devoid of sense, or at least any sort of complexity. Because of this, many fans provide rationalizations, or well thought out theories, in an attempt to understand the show or paint it in a kinder light. Unfortunately, these explanations often display more thought that what’s actually on the screen. The most famous example of this was the “Lannister Honeypot Theory,” where everyone figured that Talisa was such a stupid invention on the part of D&D, there had to be more to her. Once she began writing letters in Volatine to her mommy, the theory was that she was really a Lannister spy sent to seduce Robb into breaking his vows, enabling the Red Wedding to occur. (By the way that site is a good eye-opener for anyone who thinks that this thread is the apex of online snark about the show. It could be much worse.)
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 19:59
|
|
|
Majorian posted:They had that whole scene with Dany talking down Daario and Jorah from knifing the other ex-khaleesi and then saying, "Actually, I need your help..." How was it not clear in retrospect that Dany got her to spread ultra-flammable poo poo around the room? Because it makes just as much sense that she meant for the girl to put branches on the door handles to lock them inside? The viewer is just supposed to assume this chick has easy access to large amounts of ultra-flammable liquid? Why? I mean poo poo, why did they need to show the doors locked from the outside? Since alluding to poo poo is enough they totally wasted that camera shot. Why did the viewer need to see the locked doors but not the ultra-flammable liquid poo poo?
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 20:00
|
|
|
Elias_Maluco posted:Their help was to bar the doors and kill the guards standing by then. That is what the episode actually shows Are you saying that it couldn't have been all of the above? I'm not sure why you're so certain that it could only be the one thing and not the other. Unzip and Attack posted:Because it makes just as much sense that she meant for the girl to put branches on the door handles to lock them inside? The viewer is just supposed to assume this chick has easy access to large amounts of ultra-flammable liquid? Why? Bear in mind, you're dealing with a world in which there just happens to be a huge cache of napalm underneath King's Landing. I don't see any reason to take issue with the Dothraki having something that's also very flammable, albeit not as flammable as dragonfire or whatever.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 20:04
|
|
|
Majorian posted:Are you saying that it couldn't have been all of the above? I'm not sure why you're so certain that it could only be the one thing and not the other Well one of this things was actually show in the screen (the doors barred, the guards killed), the other wanst
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 20:05
|
|
|
raej posted:Who are the flayed, burning corpses in the trailer? Initially, we thought Roose/Walda, but nope! Bran and Osha? Why would they flay an already dead Osha, and isn't Rickon going to be shot? So who does that leave? It could be anyone in Westeros at this point. Melisandre, Podrick, Bronn, Yohn Royce, the Winterfell maester... More as shocks to the audience than for the characters. The most annoying option would probably be the Manderly character, especially if the actor does a good job with the betrayal speech. I'd say Tormund and Davos could get crucified but they're alive in the alleged leak for episode 9 and I'm inclined to believe that will be mostly right.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 20:05
|
|
|
Funky See Funky Do posted:I just don't think you made enough of a case for your argument. Could you perhaps go into more depth? I cannot go into more depth than every single action, behaviour, lore exposition and comments upon the dothraki that we've seen, both in the books and show, some of them forcibly dumped all at once to everyone's amusement on the Dothraki Top 5 Things To Do, does not add up to the way they behaved at the end of the episode. It's the equivalent of Cersei killing Tommen because he wouldn't do what she says. Particularly annoying is the leader of the Dosh Kaleen, who has led that life for who knows how many years and when talking with Daenerys showed no sign of having any regrets on the life she led or considering the possibility at another option, yet she knelt to the person who brought all that she lived for down. Sometimes people are just too used to their way of living that they just cannot change, contrast this with the slave teacher that requested Dany to be allowed to be a slave again. lezard_valeth fucked around with this message at 20:16 on May 16, 2016 |
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 20:09
|
|
|
Elias_Maluco posted:Well one of this things was actually show in the screen (the doors barred, the guards killed), the other wanst The fact that something happened off-screen to add to the surprise at the climax of the episode isn't exactly an unusual thing for a TV show to do.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 20:11
|
|
|
Grouchio posted:I still need a good summary of what happened last night. - Sansa meets Jon, they reminisce. Jon is now wearing Stark clothes. Sansa wants to retake Winterfel, Jon is tired of fighting. They gloss over the fact that he was betrayed and murdered. - Mel tells Davos she now serves Jon, who is Azor Ahai/TPTWP, Davos tells Mel he thought that was Stannis, asks her what heppend to Shireen, Brienne interupts them, calls them out on assassinating Renly with bloodmagic, Davos tells her that that's in the past, Brienne's tells him that she's still not cool with it and BTW she's the one who killed Stannis - Littlefinger controls Sweetrobin, shows Brozne Yon Royce that he could have the kid execute him if it suits him. Plans to march the vale's army up north to save Sansa. - Tyrion tries to solve problems diplomatically. It's not a bad plan, probably won't work because of Dany (or for the sake of her plot). - Margaery is still prisoner, the High Sparrow used to be a cobbler until he had an epiphany (explains why he hates shoes I guess), Loras is broken, she tells him they have to remain strong for each other. - Tommen tells Cersei the High Sparrow wants Margaery to do a walk of Shame, Cersei tells the small council, everyone agrees with her that they can't allow that. Cersei plans to start a civil war, everyone agrees with her. Jaime regresses some more, agrees with Cersei to arrest or kill the High Sparrow to save Margaery and Loras using the Tyrell army. - Theon comes home, Yara's like "Well if it isn't the dickless wonder." Theon wants to help make her queen - Osha dies because Ramsay - Tormund + Brienne? Jon and Sansa get the pink letter. Sansa convinces him to take back Winterfel because she'll do it with or without him. The Bolton army outnumber Jon & Co more that two to one. - Dany is fireproof again, kills all the Kals in a fire, the Dothraki are hers now. Narmi fucked around with this message at 20:27 on May 16, 2016 |
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 20:12
|
|
|
colonel_korn posted:(By the way that site is a good eye-opener for anyone who thinks that this thread is the apex of online snark about the show. It could be much worse.) quote:Outside, Davos comes up to Melisandre and is like “whassup?” And she’s all, “I serve Jon Snow now” and he seems somehow surprised by that? She again calls him “The Prince That Was Promised” (I guess “Azor Ahai” is too hard for everyone to pronounce and one prophecy = all prophecies). Apparently they are. Books: quote:"It means that the battle is begun," said Melisandre. "The sand is running through the glass more quickly now, and man's hour on earth is almost done. We must act boldly, or all hope is lost. Westeros must unite beneath her one true king, the prince that was promised, Lord of Dragonstone and chosen of R'hllor." quote:"You are he who must stand against the Other. The one whose coming was prophesied five thousand years ago. The red comet was your herald. You are the prince that was promised, and if you fail the world fails with you." Melisandre went to him, her red lips parted, her ruby throbbing. "Give me this boy," she whispered, "and I will give you your kingdom." - quote:Bronze Yohn is like “I’M LOYAL, I SWEAR!” but Robin doesn’t buy it until LF is like, “yeah he cool.” So…. did Littlefinger actually convince Yohn that he was responsible for something that never even happened?? Wow. He IS good! #CHAOS I'm being trolled, right?
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 20:18
|
|
|
colonel_korn posted:In hindsight, having the protagonist of S5 and S6 casually murder a much-liked character from the first three seasons is a pretty apt metaphor for the progression of the show Ramsay shows his affection for people by stabbing them. Seriously though he has no supporting cast left to terrorize aside from one Karstark and Rickon. I didn't read the mega-spoiler but I assume the rest of his scenes are torturing Rickon much to the delight of no one whatsoever. I feel like this list is incomplete People Ramsay has killed -Reek (sorta) -Two peasant boys -Lady Hornwood -Domeric Bolton -Luwin -Osha -Roose Bolton -Fat Walda -Baby Bolton -Theon (on the inside) -Rickon (eventually) -Lots of women
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 20:21
|
|
|
Majorian posted:The fact that something happened off-screen to add to the surprise at the climax of the episode isn't exactly an unusual thing for a TV show to do. It's not a good thing to do. There is a clear difference between handfeeding information to your viewers, like it happened last episode with the preview making focus on a minor character that would suddenly get focus this episode, to witholding important information or explanations in a way that show viewers have to guess with little evidence to sustain their arguments.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 20:21
|
|
|
lezard_valeth posted:It's not a good thing to do. How is it important information? Seriously, please answer this for me. Why is this such a make-or-break thing for you?
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 20:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 14:59 |
|
|
Majorian posted:How is it important information? Seriously, please answer this for me. Why is this such a make-or-break thing for you? Keep moving those goalposts dude.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 20:31
|
|