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It's kinda funny how people think lgbtq rights, gender equality, affirmative action and identity politics would somehow destabilize a socially atomized society already obsessed with individualism and demographics
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Jun 12, 2015 01:44
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if anything it just strengthens corporatism and fascism, everyone involved in their own naval gazing and becoming consumer trannies buying poo poo and not giving a gently caress about anyone else
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Jun 12, 2015 01:45
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Ork of Fiction posted:"Cultural Marxism" is the idea that people who support the overthrow of capitalism in favor of communism have instituted a campaingn of propaganda designed to destabilize the status quo and traditional attitudes in order to help ferment dissent and eventual revolution. Thanks, this is what I wanted: something that I can say to calm their frenzy posts in their FB feed, since they seem to think I'm be oblivious on purpose.  so they're basically that nut in Dr Strangelove, word for word
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Jun 12, 2015 01:46
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mdm posted:I think you're redefining the word "ferment" I assume he meand forment
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Jun 12, 2015 01:46
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capitalism can absorb any and all social liberalism, and it will. im not against social liberalism but lol its as far away from some marxist plot as you can get unless you 100% do not understand what marxism is or what a critique of capitalism looks like
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Jun 12, 2015 01:46
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Mange Mite posted:I assume he meand forment well then he'd just be making up words 
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Jun 12, 2015 01:47
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mdm posted:well then he'd just be making up words
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Jun 12, 2015 01:47
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TEAYCHES posted:if anything it just strengthens corporatism and fascism, everyone involved in their own naval gazing and becoming consumer trannies buying poo poo and not giving a gently caress about anyone else See, this is an actual marxist (or at least socialist) position, yes? natetimm posted:Beware, this man is a gay communist. Good for him!
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Jun 12, 2015 01:47
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mdm posted:well then he'd just be making up words I think I can see why these guys are so quick to say that's what cultural marxists do . .
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Jun 12, 2015 01:49
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Beef Turret posted:It's kinda funny how people think lgbtq rights, gender equality, affirmative action and identity politics would somehow destabilize a socially atomized society already obsessed with individualism and demographics
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Jun 12, 2015 01:51
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Black Bones posted:See, this is an actual marxist (or at least socialist) position, yes? identity politics is a complex issue and while you shouldnt dismiss racism, homophobia, attacks on women, etc at all its entirely possible to be a gay feminist 100% in a capitalist framework and thats pretty much whats happening. theres nothing inherently threatening about being gay to capitalism, look at three olives like the HRC (human rights campaign) the most powerful gay rights lobbyist is pretty goddamn rightwing and is mostly old rich white gay dudes who couldnt give any kind of a gently caress about economics or poor people
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Jun 12, 2015 01:51
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TEAYCHES posted:if anything it just strengthens corporatism and fascism, everyone involved in their own naval gazing and becoming consumer trannies buying poo poo and not giving a gently caress about anyone else
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Jun 12, 2015 01:51
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identity politics are good for overcoming deeply entrenched good ol boy conservative hatred, but this must quickly be overcome as well and placed in the proper context of overcoming the contradictions inherent to capitalist modes of production. identity politics are good useful tools for the left, but if you hold it up on it's own and run with it you're left with an empty watered down hedonistic psuedospirituality based on cultivating a happy ego
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Jun 12, 2015 01:55
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im a log cabin republican
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Jun 12, 2015 01:56
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lol makes sense
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Jun 12, 2015 01:56
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I'm a Marxist feminist
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Jun 12, 2015 01:57
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i love to drink and shoot the poo poo with conservatives and liberals make me shudder like a bead of sweat rolling down my spine wanna praise Jesus and hammer out some good discussion on the labor theory of value
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Jun 12, 2015 01:58
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I will concede that these conspiracy nuts have a more exciting view of the world than I do. Like young-earth creationists - Jurassic World is basically a history movie for them! Kinda jealous
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Jun 12, 2015 02:06
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Marxism is an idea about owning the machines in the factory. Marx thought the workers should own them because their work is what paid for them. Capitalists think the owners own them because they have a legal document that says that they do. Capitalists have this document because they had a head start on the workers and often times this head start ends up being worth way more in the economy than it should because the legal document prevents it from being devalued as, in a system without this legal document, it naturally would do. Just like the machines in a factory, there are machines that produce culture. These are driven by artists. Some artists don't need much in the way of "machines," others can't even begin to make their art without them. However just because the machines are run by artists doesn't mean that the artists own the machines. Just like in a factory often the artists are running the machines they are at at the behest of someone else and what they make belongs not to them but to someone else due to rules outside of the process of manufacture. Cultural marxism is supposed to mean enabling the ownership of culture by those who actually produce it which is currently (obviously) not the case. This is not how the term is actually used though. The term was popularized by the right to mean any stream of thought that takes immaterial digs at capitalism. It was used as a pejorative for academics defending squatters and things like that. Why the liberals have taken it up as a thing they say about themselves is just emblematic of the pervasive liberal failure to frame arguments in a way that they can win over people outside of their sphere. It's like when black people call themselves niggas and some fat white hick standing on the curb mumbles to himself "No poo poo." In short it's a dumb term.
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Jun 12, 2015 02:06
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Sheep-Goats posted:Marxism is an idea about owning the machines in the factory. Marx thought the workers should own them because their work is what paid for them. Capitalists think the owners own them because they have a legal document that says that they do. Capitalists have this document because they had a head start on the workers and often times this head start ends up being worth way more in the economy than it should because the legal document prevents it from being devalued as, in a system without this legal document, it naturally would do. yeah for sure
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Jun 12, 2015 02:07
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Commie NedFlanders posted:i love to drink and shoot the poo poo with conservatives and liberals make me shudder like a bead of sweat rolling down my spine Yah I'm not gonna shun friends or family over it, still gonna BBQ and join fantasy hockey pools with them, and try not to worry bout their mental health too much. Plus hopefully they will be crazy enough to trick themselves out of voting, after all there's no point because of LIZARDS
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Jun 12, 2015 02:10
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TEAYCHES posted:capitalism can absorb any and all social liberalism, and it will. im not against social liberalism but lol its as far away from some marxist plot as you can get unless you 100% do not understand what marxism is or what a critique of capitalism looks like Capitalism can eat a critique of catitalism and then live in its skin, selling that critique of capitalism to countercultural consumers. It's really cool.
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Jun 12, 2015 02:14
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Black Bones posted:I will concede that these conspiracy nuts have a more exciting view of the world than I do. stop trying to find who's pulling the strings behind the curtain, that's babby time theory accept that things just flow according to natural laws, and embrace the scientific study of history through analysis of material conditions aka: Marxism
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Jun 12, 2015 02:15
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instead of trying to see who is the one pulling the strings, try to better understand the way in which capital flows, how value is created, perceived, and alienated from its source, how commodities come to represent more than what they are, etc. etc.
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Jun 12, 2015 02:17
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natetimm posted:The people who dislike SJWs did some googling, found Cultural Marxism, and now think it's the underlying cause of SJWs instead of realizing it's mostly just a bunch of self-righteous white narcissists expressing their nature.
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Jun 12, 2015 02:17
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the most terrifying thing about the world is that there is no conspiracy and that the ruling class is variously insane or incompetent
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Jun 12, 2015 02:19
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TEAYCHES posted:the most terrifying thing about the world is that there is no conspiracy and that the ruling class is variously insane or incompetent capitalism can thrive on that kind of unpredictability and irrationality sadly Which is funny when economists talk about how great the free market is using models that depend on rational actors
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Jun 12, 2015 02:21
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Whats a good ism since people cant shut up about them ever???
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Jun 12, 2015 02:23
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roymorrison posted:Whats a good ism since people cant shut up about them ever??? Jism.
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Jun 12, 2015 02:26
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MullardEL34 posted:Jism.
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Jun 12, 2015 02:27
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TEAYCHES posted:the most terrifying thing about the world is that there is no conspiracy and that the ruling class is variously insane or incompetent there are so many conspiracy theorists who are overlocking their brains with super nutrients and long youtubes who i imagine could really put that brain matter to good use if they just accepted that THERE IS NO MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN
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Jun 12, 2015 02:27
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MullardEL34 posted:Jism.
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Jun 12, 2015 02:27
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mdm posted:capitalism can thrive on that kind of unpredictability and irrationality sadly lmao yes capitalism is best at doing its thing during times of crisis and terror
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Jun 12, 2015 02:28
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It's cultural Bolshevism rebranded. Basically it's JewsJewsJews
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Jun 12, 2015 02:31
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Commie NedFlanders posted:lmao yes capitalism is best at doing its thing during times of crisis and terror hyperbole much?
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Jun 12, 2015 02:32
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TEAYCHES posted:if anything it just strengthens corporatism and fascism, everyone involved in their own naval gazing and becoming consumer trannies buying poo poo and not giving a gently caress about anyone else critical theory? also what's the deal with corn nuts?
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Jun 12, 2015 02:34
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mdm posted:hyperbole much? i think he was agreeing w/ u not a huge naomi klein fan but shock doctrine is the best way of putting it
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Jun 12, 2015 02:36
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i can't find the quote but i was reminding of something someone said about "anti-semitism is the last roadblock to marxism" or some poo poo basically, anti-semitic ideology (or it's new form of conservative fanaticism) has a lot of the same logic that marxist ideology does with regards to class warfare and all that. they both see the struggle as one of the regular people vs the elite class, they see it as down to earth hard working people vs cosmopolitan exploiters with bad morals, they see the people as being the class of producers and the enemy as being the one who parasitically takes it from you : the jew, the tax man, the capitalist you get this same narrative time and time again with the parties changing slightly. the Nazi sees the people are one class (you see this rhetoric a lot when people say, it's not about wall street or main street it's not about black america or with america, it's one america!), of course every totality implies an exception so the exception to this is the Jew, the disturbing force which undermines the smooth social relations The NeoLiberal (Conservative Republican) does this exact same ideological maneuver, except it's the Liberal who comes to mess it all up. now the naive may think that marxism places the capitalist in the same boogyman position, but that's not the case at all. for the marxist, it's not the capitalist or the jew or the liberal or whatever who comes in and disrupts the order of social relations, the disruption in social relations is already there, inherent in the structure itself. this is why conservatives and fascism are ultimately trying to go back to some mythical time before the intruding element, whereas marxism encourages further development to pass through contradictions
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Jun 12, 2015 02:42
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Cake Smashing Boob posted:short for "hi, I'm a nazi" Yeah pretty much this, cultural marxism is a far right view that marxists control media and poo poo It doesnt help you have all those LF anime commie twitters who put cultural marxist in their bio as a joke, as people who see their stupid tweets then think that they are cultural marxist at face value as they most likely never heard the term before prior and have no real idea what it means and they use it ironically, as irl its just a far right paranoia of anyone left of hitler
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Jun 12, 2015 02:42
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