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I don't even read fantasy and I like these books. Seriously. The last fantasy books I read was the LOTR series around when the movies came out. I mainly stick to sci-fi and nonfiction, but ASOIAF is a fan-loving-tastic series. If I hadn't just finished rereading them a few months ago, I would join in with you guys.bengraven posted:Ned is an honorable guy. This is a Good Post.
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May 20, 2010 02:42
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Mr. Peepers posted:I don't even read fantasy and I like these books. Seriously. The last fantasy books I read was the LOTR series around when the movies came out. I mainly stick to sci-fi and nonfiction, but ASOIAF is a fan-loving-tastic series. If I hadn't just finished rereading them a few months ago, I would join in with you guys. This is exactly it. If you go into the novels expecting a hard fantasy novel you won't get it. You don't even need to like fantasy to read it. You can read every other form of literature and you'll see parts of them in this. There is a dwarf, but he does not have a long, willowy beard and doesn't carry a massive hammer (though he briefly carries an axe); he's not Scottish and while he loves to drink it's rarely frothy ale and not only that, he's an actual "little person" not a member of a dwarven race. There are "rangers", but they're not lithe elves with an affinity for nature. They're human and they're former murderers, thieves, rapists, whores and the sons of all of the above who are beheaded if they ever run away. And the only real wizard in the books is a woman with a haunted vagina. It's more like going to a Renaissance festival ran by Takashi Miike. EDIT: oh and I suppose there is a couple people who could be considered necromancers later on, but if you call them that you're just stretching to find a fantasy label to put on them. bengraven fucked around with this message at 03:38 on May 20, 2010 |
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May 20, 2010 03:35
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bengraven posted:Ned is an honorable guy. Arya is my favorite character  gently caress Jon.
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May 20, 2010 03:38
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Started it today, I'm up to a Bran chapter. I have a question, Daenerys' interaction with her brother came off as a little creepy and the OP mentioned sex and rape. How much worse is it gonna get? If this many people like it I'm assuming it doesn't come off as too creepy, right?
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May 20, 2010 03:48
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Virigoth posted:Arya is my favorite character You know, I'm on my re-read and I still haven't picked out a favorite. I like characters, but it's something about Martin's writing that makes me almost not completely trust anyone. Or maybe because at any point one of them can be killed. For example, at one point I decided I really like the Red Viper. But a few chapters later... I suppose Dany is my favorite when it gets down to it. I like her transformation in her personality and frankly, any woman who can keep up sexually with a rabid Mongol must be fantastic in bed.
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May 20, 2010 03:48
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Quid posted:Started it today, I'm up to a Bran chapter. I have a question, Daenerys' interaction with her brother came off as a little creepy and the OP mentioned sex and rape. How much worse is it gonna get? If this many people like it I'm assuming it doesn't come off as too creepy, right? Well, there's definitely some creepiness in Viserys, but nothing that bad, really. The worst character in the series, in my opinion, is Joffrey
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May 20, 2010 03:54
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Quid posted:Started it today, I'm up to a Bran chapter. I have a question, Daenerys' interaction with her brother came off as a little creepy and the OP mentioned sex and rape. How much worse is it gonna get? If this many people like it I'm assuming it doesn't come off as too creepy, right? Ah....Viserys/Daenerys or generally? Also are you on the chapter where Bran climbs things? (don't think that's a spoiler, but dunno) also: could we come up with a way to refer to chapters other than by number (I can't remember numbers for the life of me) that doesn't spoil things whowhatwhere fucked around with this message at 04:03 on May 20, 2010 |
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May 20, 2010 04:01
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I think the minor-tier characters are far more interesting than most of the POVs. It's another reason why I really like this series. In fact, one of my favorites (Rhaegar) is dead when the series begins and another one (Howland Reed) hasn't even appeared in person.
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May 20, 2010 04:03
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What I really, really didn't like were the minor tier characters who had POVs, but only once. That's really the greatest flaw in the later books. The further introduction of character threads that don't go anywhere and only further branch out the plot. In fact, it's actually worse than Robert Jordan in that regard.
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May 20, 2010 04:08
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ah...I can only really think of one non-prologue one?
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May 20, 2010 04:19
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Why does the 'quality of the prose' always come up in literary discussions? It's such an inherently bored and decadent thing to care about compared to the ideas expressed or the plot or characters or any number of other things. Unless the prose is so bad as to make the work difficult to read or something who cares, it's like complaining that a punk band can't play their instruments or Bob Dylan can't sing very well, ie largely irrelevent.
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May 20, 2010 04:51
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whowhatwhere posted:ah...I can only really think of one non-prologue one? There were a few in Feast from memory. Unless Martin planned to make a habit of writing from the perspective of a guard that is.
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May 20, 2010 05:14
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Ratios and Tendency posted:Why does the 'quality of the prose' always come up in literary discussions? It's such an inherently bored and decadent thing to care about compared to the ideas expressed or the plot or characters or any number of other things. Unless the prose is so bad as to make the work difficult to read or something who cares, it's like complaining that a punk band can't play their instruments or something, ie largely irrelevent. I guess writers, English majors, or (I daresay) book enthusiasts would be prone to caring about it. In terms of Martin, it comes up alot because he's really loving good most of the time. It's just a rarity in the fantasy genre, really, which is probably a contributing factor to the books gaining popularity among readers who usually don't dig fantasy writers. Quality of prose is important to me. If I can't flow with it, I can't get far enough to care about the plot or the characters. Terrible prose is the same thing as someone orally telling me a story in a really uninteresting, disjointed way--I just zone out. Your music analogies are perfect examples of why people write off entire genres of music: some people just can't get into them for the exact reasons you mentioned. The ideas behind the music can be appreciated if explained to those people, perhaps, but the music's ability to communicate directly is lost because of that disconnection with the listener. It's completely relevant in terms of personal taste, which is what the prose arguments always boil down to. I don't think it's possible to objectively define "quality prose," because there are so many ways to go about it. When it works, it works.  , tl;dr: Martin writes well, etc.
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May 20, 2010 05:20
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whowhatwhere posted:ah...I can only really think of one non-prologue one? There's the guard and the knight and I think the daughter of Greyjoy only has one chapter from her POV. Edit: I hope this isn't considered spoilery since it's more a criticism of the writing and format and less so the story itself.
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May 20, 2010 05:33
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Martin is a fantastic writer and the way he turns archetypes on their head is amazing. I'm going to join on this reread because I've only ever actually read the series once through! That said, I really don't recommend the series anymore to people - spreading the miserable realization that one of the greatest fantasy series ever is almost certainly not going to be finished by the author almost feels like cruel and unusual punishment
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May 20, 2010 05:34
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I'm trying to think of a way to identify chapters... maybe Bran 1, Arya 5, or? So Bran's first POV chapter, Arya's fifth POV. You're still having to count chapters though. Maybe everyone should just pencil in a chapter number when they get to a new one, and use those. Then we can say Chapter 4 [spoiler]spoilery stuff happens[spoiler], and not worry about it too much. I think I've already worried about it too much. I just finished my latest re-read a month ago. I'm still trying to get over reading "Meanwhile, back at the Wall..." again.
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May 20, 2010 05:59
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Zombie Lincoln posted:The Eyrie sure looks a lot like Neuschwanstein   The artwork in the OP is spectacular, especially the sky cell one. That is an identical representation of how I had it in my head. Although I guess the descriptions were pretty explicit.
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May 20, 2010 06:01
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I think I'm going to start on this once I'm done with what I'm reading now. I've had the book laying around since before the third book got released, but like others I couldn't get past the first chapter or so. Might as well give it another shot, wouldn't want it to have been a waste of $7. I hope I can get it finished by the end of June though, I tend to be a slow reader unless I'm really, really into something.
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May 20, 2010 06:28
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Quid posted:Started it today, I'm up to a Bran chapter. I have a question, Daenerys' interaction with her brother came off as a little creepy and the OP mentioned sex and rape. How much worse is it gonna get? If this many people like it I'm assuming it doesn't come off as too creepy, right? Most of the "on camera" sex is kind of disturbing. Thankfully, despite how much we like to joke about it, there's around ~4000 pages of stuff in the series that isn't sex described by GRRM. Just laugh at it. Or Cry. Also, Bran IV, Arya II, etc. are how they are generally described. chapter page # and edition could help as well, I guess. iddqd posted:The Eyrie sure looks a lot like Neuschwanstein God, that's an awesome looking place.  Click here for the full 1600x1200 image. Zombie Lincoln fucked around with this message at 06:33 on May 20, 2010 |
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May 20, 2010 06:30
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Page numbers (and which POV it is) can identify it fine, since even between editions there's not a massive discrepancy between pages.
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May 20, 2010 06:51
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After reading how horrible and goony and disgusting these books supposedly are in LF/GBS/TBB/YOSPOS/every other subforum, I decided to pick them up, because if they're so very horribly goony and disturbing but also so very widely read, they must be pretty good. I powered through the first two in about five days, and I am a few chapters into the third as of 2 AM on day six. These are pretty goshdarn good books, and I really like these books a lot. They are good books. Read these books. Also I am prepared to hate GRRM for the rest of my natural life.
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May 20, 2010 07:57
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We'll have a re-read timetable up shortly but it's looking like POV I and half of POV II will be the first weeks reading (about 80-100 pages). Seeing as I started this about 2 weeks ago, I'm up to Danerys III right now whore
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May 20, 2010 08:02
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I dont particularly like Jon as a character, too emo. Then again who knows how his storyline will turn out. I mean at the start of the series both Sansa and Jaime were pretty insufferable, but they grew on me over time. The Hound was always awesome though.
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May 20, 2010 08:07
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Mr.48 posted:I dont particularly like Jon as a character, too emo. Then again who knows how his storyline will turn out. I mean at the start of the series both Sansa and Jaime were pretty insufferable, but they grew on me over time. The Hound was always awesome though. Sansa gets more interesting as the series progresses, but I certainly wouldn't say she was more likeable. The main saving grace of her chapters is how naive she is (and how she mentions lemoncakes!)
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May 20, 2010 08:29
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Dendra posted:Sansa gets more interesting as the series progresses, but I certainly wouldn't say she was more likeable. The main saving grace of her chapters is how naive she is (and how she mentions lemoncakes!) I've always felt that Sansa was a boring character who just happens to be in interesting places where interesting things happen. Edit: Sweet, the schedule is up and it looks like we will finish the first book well before I move  Edit: VV Is it really fair to call a 13 year old coddled child a bimbo? If so, then yes, that is exactly what she is. Karter705 fucked around with this message at 08:55 on May 20, 2010 |
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May 20, 2010 08:48
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Karter705 posted:I've always felt that Sansa was a boring character who just happens to be in interesting places where interesting things happen. So basically, a blonde bimbo back in GRRM times? (no offence to any blondes reading the thread)
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May 20, 2010 08:49
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Sansa is easily my favourite character.
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May 20, 2010 09:01
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Sansa was definitely a character I loved to hate. But now, as much as I hate to say it, I have to admit she's growing on me. Mayhaps another re-read can make me hate her once more!
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May 20, 2010 09:04
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There's maybe a hundred-page interval where you'll feel justified in hating sansa. After that you just start feeling sorry for her because of all the horrible poo poo that's happening. I hope 'horrible poo poo' doesn't constitute a spoiler but given these books' reputation I don't really think it does
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May 20, 2010 09:15
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We should probably leave this kind of discussion for THE BAD THREAD.
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May 20, 2010 09:26
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Haraksha posted:We should probably leave this kind of discussion for THE BAD THREAD. I kind of figured Zombie would throw a link to the beginning of the actual discussion in the OP on Monday, like they do for episodes in the TVIV. Otherwise I don't know what to post here until then; this thread just seems much more suited for this kind of discussion than the other thread (which isn't suited for anything).
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May 20, 2010 10:14
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Discuss whatever you want in here but just do not spoil anything, that's all.
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May 20, 2010 10:15
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Karter705 posted:the other thread (which isn't suited for anything). Rape.
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May 20, 2010 10:50
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Haraksha posted:Rape. Are you trying to scare off the TVIVers? Seriously dude.
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May 20, 2010 10:52
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Viconia posted:Are you trying to scare off the TVIVers? Seriously dude. Goons love Madmen and BSG. Madmen and BSG both featured rape. Erego, Goons love rape.
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May 20, 2010 10:54
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Haraksha posted:Goons love Madmen and BSG. God, BSG is so loving awesome. </derail>
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May 20, 2010 10:57
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Just to be clear on this, starting week 1 (the 24th) we are no longer required to spoiler what happens in those chapters right? When someone told me I should read these books, I read the first chapter and immediately stopped reading after, then stopped for a month because i didnt like the whole zombies thing. It was only the third time I started the book that I got to "The things I do for love." . That one got me hooked. There are still some things I don't like, like the ghost from the vagina and some characters are a bit annoying, Bran as the series progresses, Sam every time. And somehow I managed not to pick up on all the rape.
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May 20, 2010 12:55
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Tyrion is the best character, right from the start. 
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May 20, 2010 13:59
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You will want to take advantage of this in the not-so-distant future. I am looking forward to witnessing the building angst in this thread...
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May 20, 2010 14:07
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:Tyrion is the best character, right from the start. I agree. I hated Sansa the first read-through, but on this one, I'm not hating her as much. The naivety makes her actions more forgivable than I thought the first time around.
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May 20, 2010 14:17
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