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New chapter is up and from now on it's time to wait a week inbetween chapters. I want to see the rebuttal to this line of arguementation.
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Oct 29, 2012 15:48
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 05:21 |
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All Aladdin really has to understand is that even if bizarro Dumbledore says otherwise, Magicians are just as capable of the transgresses of these beasts. Knowledge is power, after all.
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Oct 29, 2012 21:06
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Nate RFB posted:All Aladdin really has to understand is that even if bizarro Dumbledore says otherwise, Magicians are just as capable of the transgresses of these beasts. Knowledge is power, after all. Aladdin should know that already. Judal knows magic and killed his oldest friend in front of him. The idea that simply lacking the intent to harm people means you are incapable of harming people is ludicrous. All Magnetodore is doing is playing upon a magician's natural feeling of isolation from the average population and then telling them the reason for that distance is because they're innately morally superior to the people around them. In other words, exactly what lonely
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Oct 29, 2012 21:58
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I do wonder what Dumbledore has to say about Magi. Except for this conversation feels fairly predictable. Also. This is now officially the CIA thread.
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Oct 29, 2012 22:13
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Nate RFB posted:All Aladdin really has to understand is that even if bizarro Dumbledore says otherwise, Magicians are just as capable of the transgresses of these beasts. Knowledge is power, after all. Aladdin isn't a magician anyway so technically is top of the pyramid. I'd love to see him use this logic to show why its all poo poo
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Oct 29, 2012 22:17
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What it all comes down to is that it is better to be the oppressor than the oppressed. Everything the guy says is meant to justify this stance. Even his arguments that the goi are content with their current situation is something the previous regime probably said about the magicians.
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Oct 30, 2012 01:40
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This is going back a while, but I just finished the Balbadd arc. I really liked how Cassim was definitely a villain with villainous intent, but he still had a very profound motive behind it all. The final revelation was pretty heart touching to me. Or maybe I just got everything completely wrong. What did everyone else think about this arc? I mean personally, it was pretty much head and shoulders above anything I've recently read in shounen.
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Oct 30, 2012 07:04
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I liked the relationship between Cassim and Ali Baba, Ali Baba accepting Cassim's memories and his unwavering friendship was an emotional moment. Cassim's fall into despair makes me pity him, he's a rebellious teenager except with deadly magic artifacts and no parent figure to turn to.  The only complaints I'd raise against it is the pacing, from memory it feels like it takes up a large part of the story so far, (but we got a lot of character development for Ali Baba so I don't mind!) and Hugo's death  (well, I don't actually hate that but it was another really sad moment in an emotional arc.)
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Oct 30, 2012 07:50
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pandaK posted:This is going back a while, but I just finished the Balbadd arc. I really liked how Cassim was definitely a villain with villainous intent, but he still had a very profound motive behind it all. The final revelation was pretty heart touching to me. I guess the major problem I had with the arc is with Alibaba in general, who's about as interesting as wonderbread to me. Everything about him has to be told and not shown, and while there's nice stuff about almost every other character in there, for whatever reason all of his relationships and attributs have to be explained by other characters. You don't really get the feeling that there was ever a bond between Alibaba and Cassim, no matter how many times this relationship is explained in words - you don't see it reflected in his character. Magi gets a lot of the big picture right in a really interesting way, but Alibaba is portrayed as somehow outside of the influences of the economic/political system for reasons I don't understand. For Aladdin, it makes sense, and this outsider nature is a huge part of his character. Alibaba's virtues just aren't really convincing and it sucks a lot of the weight out of his scenes, which are a huge chunk of the manga.
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Oct 30, 2012 07:51
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I didn't really feel that way about Alibaba at all. In a way, I think his "outsider" status exists because he's really always been an outsider also. First, the son of a king born to a prostitute, dragged from his slum-life and friends into the palace but never fully accepted. Then, finally leaving his home country to "make it on his own" where he's a lost-prince, etc. In a lot of ways, he's as much an outsider as Alladin. Maybe that's why they're such a good match. Likewise with Mor. She's been taken from her home, made into a slave, etc. All three are outsiders clinging to each other. The Balbadd arc definitely touched on a lot of stuff, and this author takes on a lot of challenges you don't read in manga often. Societies, histories, etc. Right now, we're dealing with an elite magical society literally existing off the very living essence of human chattel. That's pretty harsh. Likewise, we're currently being bombarded with the reason why this state exists and its justification. Meanwhile, we have like an eleven-year old kid who must make a judgement on this state of affairs? Should he accept things as they are in this country? Rock the boat and try to change things for the better? Would changing things really be for the better? How can you know that -- especially as a child with an adult telling you "this is how things were -- they were awful, weren't they? Look at them now? Isn't it terrific?" What surprises me is the openess Mogamett is showing Alladin and that other person with him. They snuck into a forbidden place and are being treated rather well. If you think about it though, Mogamett has it correct. Magicians mainly want to study magic and do more with their craft. Historically, they've never really cared about base desires like ruling countries and such. They just want to be left alone with their grimoires and bubbling potion pots. Maybe that's why they've never ruled before. In this case though, Mogamett has "had enough". While I think we can all agree that humans are not animals and shouldn't be treated as such (as sources of Magoi or as slaves), I think that Alladin has bigger things on his agenda than changing the state of affairs in Mustashim. This place can't exist like this forever. They'll run out of their human batteries soon enough. What then? Like I said before, begin importing "citizens"? I want to see Alladin get training and become a kick-rear end Magi -- on par with any of the other Magi in the world. I want to see Alibaba become a kick-rear end swordsman/warrior -- on par with any other gladiator in the world, and Mor better not cross the border into the dark continent and never return. That was pretty drat stupid Alladin and Alibaba getting fat like they did after the Balbadd arc, too.
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Oct 30, 2012 19:16
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Arab Dumbledore wasn't harsh to Aladdin because he wants to keep skilled mages around. He isn't stupid, so bringing down the hammer without even trying to avoid alienating all those bright young mages is out of the question. It isn't as though he really cares whether a few goi lived or died, either. Something happened between him and Yamuraiha to make her live in exile, and it must have been pretty serious assuming he was telling the truth about raising her. I'm guessing she left fairly young since she only uses water magic while the curriculum there is all about mixing multiple elements.
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Oct 30, 2012 19:25
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Serious Frolicking posted:Arab Dumbledore wasn't harsh to Aladdin because he wants to keep skilled mages around. He isn't stupid, so bringing down the hammer without even trying to avoid alienating all those bright young mages is out of the question. It isn't as though he really cares whether a few goi lived or died, either. I'm pretty sure she only uses water magic because she thinks it's the coolest.
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Oct 30, 2012 19:32
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Serious Frolicking posted:Arab Dumbledore wasn't harsh to Aladdin because he wants to keep skilled mages around. He isn't stupid, so bringing down the hammer without even trying to avoid alienating all those bright young mages is out of the question. It isn't as though he really cares whether a few goi lived or died, either. Pretty sure Aladdin's steam magic thing is something taught by Yamuraiha and it combines heat and water.
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Oct 31, 2012 09:14
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New chapter is up.
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Nov 4, 2012 20:26
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Balbadd had some Ron Paul-esque elements to it, I wonder if this current arc is some sort of dig at "welfare queens" 
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Nov 4, 2012 20:36
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He's going to totally brutalise that young girl, isn't he? 
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Nov 4, 2012 21:08
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The "welfare queens" argument is mostly coming from Dumbledore though, and he's definitely an antagonist at this point. I mean, the above ground sections of the country are also pretty much a post scarcity economy, and people aren't complaining about that. The problem with paper money wasn't that it has no ~intrinsic value~ it's because it's controlled by an outside political entity, Balbadd can't devalue it unilaterally, so they can't depreciate their own debt. I have no idea if that's what the author intended though, but it was a legitimate problem. Don't really see where this is going either, but I'm guessing it's not going to be completely resolved, just like how Balbadd got annexed by Kou in the end. Algid fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Nov 4, 2012 |
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Nov 4, 2012 21:12
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Algid posted:The "welfare queens" argument is mostly coming from Dumbledore though, and he's definitely an antagonist at this point. I mean, the above ground sections of the country are also pretty much a post scarcity economy, and people aren't complaining about that. As long as Dumbledore gets his, I'll be fine with that.
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Nov 4, 2012 21:14
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Balbadd is Greece, al-Sarmen are neoliberal economists. Magi is Naomi Klein's Shock Doctrine: The Manga. Sinbad is Evo Morales
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Nov 4, 2012 21:45
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ConanThe3rd posted:He's going to totally brutalise that young girl, isn't he? No, worse. He is going to both undermine those three's sympathy for her while making himself seem better. The dude is really, really good at convincing others.
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Nov 4, 2012 22:19
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I'm still a little unclear on the mechanics here. Draining magoi shortens everyone's life, right, not just the kids? I ask because otherwise this is all blatantly violating conservation of energy, and I take my manga thermodynamics very seriously. (And also because if they are in effect creating energy from nothing the system could be run in a totally non-evil way, which would kind of destroy the point of the arc.)
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Nov 4, 2012 23:21
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Sindai posted:I'm still a little unclear on the mechanics here. Draining magoi shortens everyone's life, right, not just the kids? Since there's no possible way they can create a self-sustaining Goi-to-Magic-production ratio, I'd say this situation is doomed. Solar power is where it's at, and they don't seem to be interested in that.
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Nov 4, 2012 23:43
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They die young, but they still usually live to adulthood. With no danger from starvation the system is totally sustainable. They don't have to work to provide for their children, so given a lack of birth control there will be a lot of babies born. Having the goi live to old age isn't important to the system at all. There isn't really a real world equivalent.
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Nov 4, 2012 23:51
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Serious Frolicking posted:They die young, but they still usually live to adulthood. With no danger from starvation the system is totally sustainable. They don't have to work to provide for their children, so given a lack of birth control there will be a lot of babies born. Having the goi live to old age isn't important to the system at all.
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Nov 4, 2012 23:59
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The children could also live on the surface while they're the most vulnerable to the draining, making it even more sustainable.
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Nov 5, 2012 03:43
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SerSpook posted:The children could also live on the surface while they're the most vulnerable to the draining, making it even more sustainable.
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Nov 5, 2012 07:47
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SerSpook posted:The children could also live on the surface while they're the most vulnerable to the draining, making it even more sustainable. Nah, the key to this plan is that the goi need to want to stay. Kids who haven't known the bad parts of living outside getting a taste of the good parts seems like it would foment some serious rebellion in a generation or two.
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Nov 5, 2012 08:45
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Serious Frolicking posted:Nah, the key to this plan is that the goi need to want to stay. Kids who haven't known the bad parts of living outside getting a taste of the good parts seems like it would foment some serious rebellion in a generation or two. Also, it doesn't subject them to the abject pain of having one's Spiral Engery ripped out of you which, and let's be fair to Captain Hitler McSturgen here, is his goal. Honestly, the fact they produce Magoi is probably just a bonus to him.
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Nov 5, 2012 12:04
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Huh, this chapter was pretty well written. And, that's how fascist regimes continue on. I could see the 5th district thing as they see it being staged and just a small portion of its population, with them running into the same guy again and Arab Hitler Dumbledore immedietely heading off to work whatever magic on the girl. My guess is the 5th district is actually a lot less structured and that's why there's so many magic items in the hands of bandits and such. Sled fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Nov 6, 2012 |
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Nov 6, 2012 03:51
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162 Wonder how long Aladdin will be able to study there with that lingering problem unresolved. Not that it could be resolved without effectively instigating a revolution anyway.
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Nov 13, 2012 14:22
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Nate RFB posted:162 It'll be resolved with a one-time application of Solomon's Wisdom to clear up Mogamett's trauma. I'm kind of disappointed with the, 'he sees them as livestock' thing. It's just a way to make him seem cartoonishly evil despite his otherwise morally gray motivations.
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Nov 13, 2012 16:41
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Well, somehow that encounter turned out even worse than I was expecting. Eesh.
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Nov 13, 2012 18:01
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Sarcophallus posted:It'll be resolved with a one-time application of Solomon's Wisdom to clear up Mogamett's trauma. He is unfailingly kind to and wishes the best for people. That this only applies to magicians is what causes the ambiguity. He doesn't even wish goi harm; he makes use of them where he can but doesn't really care about them otherwise. There is no question that he is a monster, but he is an unusually nuanced monster for a shounen manga.
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Nov 13, 2012 21:08
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Nate RFB posted:162
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Nov 14, 2012 01:02
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Sarcophallus posted:I'm kind of disappointed with the, 'he sees them as livestock' thing. It's just a way to make him seem cartoonishly evil despite his otherwise morally gray motivations. I don't think "He sees them as livestock" is quite accurate. I think it's better to say that he believes Magicians to be a higher species than Goi, and he sees the needs and wants of the Goi as subservient to those of Magicians. I think he would see actual livestock as even lower than Goi. Nonetheless his views are very twisted and repugnant, and I find that very sad because otherwise he seems to have the capacity for great compassion and kindness. 
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Nov 14, 2012 12:52
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Serious Frolicking posted:He is unfailingly kind to and wishes the best for people. That this only applies to magicians is what causes the ambiguity. He doesn't even wish goi harm; he makes use of them where he can but doesn't really care about them otherwise. There is no question that he is a monster, but he is an unusually nuanced monster for a shounen manga. No surprise that this comic, about conflict resolution, is set in the middle east... makes you think...
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Nov 15, 2012 16:24
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It's really odd to see analysis of a shonen manga go this deep, and still ring true. If you had asked me when I first started reading Magi if it'd have a deep story I would have laughed at you. Now I'm not so sure.
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Nov 16, 2012 00:06
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No Wave posted:I think this is basically based on Israel/the middle east. Basically a historically persecuted minority is now more concerned with protecting its own (offering citizenship to their own religion, etc) and forget everyone else. It's not 1:1, as by and large palestinians would really rather have their own nation, but come on, Mogamett even calls non-wizards "goi". I doubt there's any particularly deep connection to historical and recent events (there is a connection that's at least surface level obviously), but its nice to see where the author drew the word goi from.
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Nov 16, 2012 03:08
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That isn't necessarily it. I don't think it is very likely at all, actually. Magi use magoi. Non-magicians do not use magoi. It could be based on in-setting terminology, or it could be a veiled political reference requiring a passing knowledge of yiddish. And yeah, some non-magicians do use magoi, but I don't think evil Dumbledore draws a distinction between them and any other goi.
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Nov 16, 2012 03:40
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Did Sumomomo Momomo take a sharp left turn into the deep end like Magi? I ask because they share the same author and I've only watched the first three or so episodes of Sumo.
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Nov 16, 2012 05:09
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