Canadian Politics Megathread: That is simply not Trudeau

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canadian Politics Megathread: That is simply not Trudeau

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JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

As a Qu�b�cois I feel a deep, seething revulsion for the Queen. To me she symbolizes imperial dominance, hegemony, disenfranchisement, alienation, humiliation.

# ¿ May 31, 2013 18:17

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 09:42

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

PittTheElder posted:

I genuinely don't understand this sentiment. The way I see it, the Qu�b�cois got a pretty good deal following the Treaty of Paris, 1763. Granted, I don't know much about Canadian history between, say 1820 and 1990, but aside from Quebec being federated into a country with a bunch of people who speak English, I don't get the whole 'disenfranchisement, alienation, humiliation' part. Particularly since after 250 years, Quebec still largely retains the most defining characteristics of New France: French and Catholicism.

I know there's been a bunch of shady anti-Quebec stuff that has happened within the Confederation, but I don't know why you'd hold that against the Monarchy.

I don't hold it against the Queen. A symbol is all she is. I merely expressed what that symbol evoked in me. These feelings weren't really an invitation for debate.

But hey, I still exist, so clearly I have nothing to cry about.

# ¿ May 31, 2013 21:16

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

PittTheElder posted:

I'm just saying that I'm pretty sure that, assuming the Queen is oppressive in some way, I, an English speaking Albertan, is oppressed to roughly the same extent as a French speaking Quebecker.

Maybe you are. It comes down to whether you have any desire for self-determination.

# ¿ May 31, 2013 22:13

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

Raenir Salazar posted:

Couldn't we self determine to be a part of a greater whole? This is an honest question in case you feel I'm trolling.

It's an interesting question which raises a few more:

Can we self-determine to abdicate our self-determination? Can we self-determine to be somebody's subject?

Maybe. That's not how it usually works, though.

# ¿ May 31, 2013 22:38

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

Raenir Salazar posted:

I think the obvious modern example is with the various nations de jure foregoing a bit of their sovereignty when they joined the United Nations. The European Union seems a more concrete example, there's some awesome Carribean islands who wanted in on our free healthcare.

Yes, but there's a big difference between joining a democratic enterprise and bending the knee to some monarch.

JawKnee posted:

That concept of 'we' is incredibly strange and fleeting.

Must be the royal we.

# ¿ May 31, 2013 22:51

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

Oh, if only we could come back to the market freedom of 1950's Montreal.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2013 19:33

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

Does it have to be Quebecois racism? Can it just be normal racism, from someone at the soccer federation?

# ¿ Jun 5, 2013 01:29

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

mr. unhsib posted:

Well, it's the Quebec soccer federation, so no I don't think it's unfair in the slightest to call it Quebecois.

I guess I'm to blame, as are all Quebecois, for electing that person as head of our soccer federation.

FYI, the decision is being decried in our newspapers, too.

# ¿ Jun 5, 2013 01:34

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

In surprising news, here's a story on good urban planning:

quote:

�The idea of counter-culture artists and ultraorthodox Hasidim occupying the same building is kind of a new thing,� Plateau city councillor Alex Norris said. �And we like the idea because it brings diverse strains of the community together in the same setting.�

http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/Finding+common+ground+Mile+building/8473380/story.html

# ¿ Jun 5, 2013 02:23

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

colonel_korn posted:

So the (interim) mayor of Montreal just got arrested by Quebec's anti-corruption squad.

What a glorious way to start the week. UPAC doesn't mess around. The system works!?

# ¿ Jun 17, 2013 12:28

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

Pinterest Mom posted:

Richard Bergeron, left-wing urbanist and potential truther.

Is he?

Eh, he's still got my vote.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2013 12:37

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

Whole thing makes me sick. The largest forest fire in Quebec history up North, and then this.

# ¿ Jul 6, 2013 21:31

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

Baloogan posted:

Could it be terrorism?

They're still looking at every hypothesis, they've mentioned the possibility of an act of "vandalism", today.

I have an old uncle who's worked his whole life on the railroad who's convinced of it, for what it's worth.

# ¿ Jul 7, 2013 23:56

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

MMA just sent out an obviously Google-translated press release in French. Not helping their image.

http://www.mmarail.com/sections/news/files/MMA_7.7.2013_Press.Release_French.pdf

Also, someone took this video today. An abandoned train, carrying diesel, near Lac M�gantic. Completely unlocked. Same company.

http://youtu.be/oOwPYr38A1c

JayMax fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Jul 8, 2013

# ¿ Jul 8, 2013 04:42

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

I guess this is as good a thread as any to mention this: you guys need to watch Denis Villeneuve's Incendies tonight at 9 on CBC. My favourite Quebec film of the last 5 years.

# ¿ Aug 4, 2013 00:48

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

JoelJoel posted:

And bon cop bad cop is a pretty good one.

I think it's a really bland mass appeal comedy and I hate that it's what Canadians instantly think of when they hear about Quebec cinema. We've got a fantastic crop of young directors that are gaining recognition internationally through the festival circuit (Denis Villeneuve, Philippe Falardeau, Xavier Dolan, Kim Nguyen to name a few).

Now, sadly, their critical success hasn't translated to box office success here in Quebec either. There's been a debate going on for about year about the decrease in popularity of Quebec films. Some are arguing, like theatre owner Vincent Guzzo, that we're funding too many auteur films at the expense of more commercial pictures.

quote:

Many stakeholders stepped up to the plate and replied to [Guzzo]. Amongst these, director Philippe Falardeau (Oscar nominee Monsieur Lazhar) responded more specifically to the accusation of wasting "taxpayer money" in "grant movies that are always complaining about something." His rebuttal was rigorously logical: (1) it's impossible to predict what will become a commercial success (and thus what "people want to see"), (2) big productions are not profitable even though producers and distributors earn a lot of money, and (3) all movies receive grants, from the smallest to biggest productions, and sometimes, it's the smaller productions that end up costing less to the taxpayer.

From a strictly financial point of view, he adds, Mr. Guzzo's logic would have led to make the mistake of refusing to fund the scenarios of Incendies and Monsieur Lazhar, two projects which ended up being lucrative. And that does not even take into account the fact that Qu�bec cin�ma is far from having wasted its year 2012 by standards which lie beyond the box-office. Indeed, the last year could even have resulted in a greater international esteem.

Marc-Andr� Lussier, a film journalist for the Montr�al daily La Presse, underscored the paradox, weakness in market share versus success in "personal" productions. The three consecutive years of Oscar nominations serve as a great proof in point, along with the log jam in good Qu�bec movies at the Jutras, Qu�bec's movie awards. The celebrated Bernard �mond's latest movie (All That You Possess) was only nominated in one category and �velyne Brochu was not even nominated for her stunning performance as lead actress in Inch' Allah because the competition was too strong.

The same assessment applies to documentaries.

In contrast, the Soci�t� de d�veloppement des entreprises culturelles (SODEC), without being as ridiculous as Mr. Guzzo, used the term "yellow alert" following last year's crop of Qu�bec cinema. The public corporation had in fact already revised the evaluation criteria for films. If it had not, Rebelle, which represented Canada at the Oscars this year, would have be classified as a "failure" with its $150,000 box-office receipts.

In April, the Ministry of Culture asked SODEC to set up a working group to tackle the issues and challenges of Qu�bec cinema. The leading figures designated to sit on the committee will have until the fall to reflect. The group's lack of representativity fuelled some critiques whilst some regretted that the group was not mandated to thoroughly revise the Cinema Act.

http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/behind-numbers/2013/05/cultural-exception-and-state-funding-quebec-film-industry

Notice how I'm trying to veer my own thread derailment into a political discussion?

# ¿ Aug 4, 2013 07:10

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

The way we used to defend it when I worked for Telus was something like "infrastructure costs are higher for a telecom in Canada based on the large territory that needs to be covered and the low population density."

# ¿ Aug 5, 2013 20:50

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

Didn't we go through this bullshit just a few years ago? Then the Bouchard-Taylor report was completely ignored by all parties except QS?

# ¿ Aug 26, 2013 17:15

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

I'm sure he came up with that title on his own, though.

# ¿ Sep 4, 2013 22:16

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

Pinterest Mom posted:

You just haven't been paying attention.

In 2007, the PQ fell to third place in the Assembl�e Nationale, largely because the ADQ ran a gross race-baiting campaign agitating against immigrants. The PQ swore at that point it would never let the "issue of Qu�bec identity" be appropriated by another party. This is an ADQ issue that saw its fans flamed by the Journal de Montr�al and Journal de Qu�bec. The "progressive" rationale, such as it is, came after the PQ decided to adopt ADQ policy.

And, of course, the PQ, and much of the sovereigntist movement, has been speaking out against multiculturalism for just about forever. Landry talked about it pretty often, Parizeau had the unfortunate "ethnic vote" slip of the tongue, and just about any PQ activist can (and probably will) talk your ear off about the evils of canadian multiculturalism.

When Pauline Marois became leader and entered the AssNat in 2007, the very first bill she introduced was la loi sur l'identit� qu�b�coise. That law would have barred immigrants (both from other countries and other provinces) deemed to not have sufficient french proficiency from running for office, giving money, or addressing a petition to the Assnat. It also would have extended language laws to companies from 25 to 50 employees. Those proposals were also found in the PQ's 2008 and 2012 platforms (though, perhaps tellingly, the identity section was sixth in the 2008 platform, and first in the 2012 platform). The proposal for the charte de la la�cit� was new in 2012.

I wonder if this latest attempt at wedge politics might push QS into the mainstream. There's such a vacuum on the left.

# ¿ Sep 8, 2013 05:45

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

Ceciltron posted:

I wish people here in Quebec would acknowledge the QS exist and have opposed this whole thing from the start. Everyone seems to be stuck in the old "PQ (CAQ) OR LIBERALS!" rut. It's getting impossible to explain that the PQ isn't anywhere near a left-wing party.

Family dinnertime conversation is getting harder to stomach.

I hear you.

I've had this discussion with my parents. They're in their sixties and have lived in rural Quebec their whole lives. I don't think they've ever seen someone wearing a turban. I don't (want to) believe they're racist, but they are very ignorant about these issues. While talking to them I found out that what got them the most riled up was seeing Justin Trudeau on TV talking against the charter. To them, this has become yet another Canada/Trudeau VS Quebec issue.

# ¿ Sep 10, 2013 22:18

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

Daynab posted:

it seems like it really is rural Quebec vs Montreal/Quebec City?

I don't think so. Quebec City is much more conservative than parts of rural Quebec.

e: If anything, I think Quebec City federalists would tend to be in favour of the charter, while Montreal separatists would tend to be against it.

JayMax fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Sep 11, 2013

# ¿ Sep 10, 2013 23:52

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

Kintarooooo posted:

France-styled secularity can work, but this isn't it.

Where does France-style secularity work? Certainly not in France.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2013 03:43

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

St. Dogbert posted:

Did I miss the referendum where the Yes side won?

Maybe you missed the sponsorship scandal?

# ¿ Sep 11, 2013 03:49

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

Paper Jam Dipper posted:

I really wonder how the 35 and under feel about this. They probably don't give a gently caress about any religious symbols, "cultural" ones included.

It's probably just anecdotal evidence, but in my surroundings, the conflict is breaking down around generational lines, instead of separatist/federalist or left/right.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2013 23:46

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

Dreylad posted:

I'm not from Quebec, and don't know a ton of Quebecois but I've always found that the kinds of seperatism fall along generational lines as well. The younger people from there I know tend to be soft sovereigntists at best.

I'm a staunch sovereignist, but I oppose nationalism.

It's a lonely path.

# ¿ Sep 12, 2013 02:21

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

Albino Squirrel posted:

I will hunt down and murder anyone who threatens to close Schwartz's.

That CHARCUTERIE HEBRA�QUE _{Jewish Deli} is the single best reason to go to Montr�al.

It's owned by Celine Dion. I think it's safe.

# ¿ Sep 12, 2013 04:18

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

re: Legion halls

You ROCanadians are so weird.

~two solitudes~

# ¿ Sep 13, 2013 04:58

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

Baronjutter posted:

I know a lawyer with a mohawk but he's actually first-nations. And like I said, I had a lab tech assistant lady during a scan with a funny coloured mohawk. Well more of a faux-hawk with silly shaved sides, but regardless, a non-conformist hairstyle. But mostly I've had poo poo tons of doctors, nurses, lab techs, support workers with god damned turbans, and a few with headscarves. It's almost like that poo poo doesn't matter to non-racists.

Why are you still arguing with your "partially mentally ill" Facebook friend a page later?

# ¿ Sep 13, 2013 23:53

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

One of the greatest Quebecois filmmakers, Michel Brault, died yesterday.

You can watch one of his classics, Pour la suite du monde, on the NFB website (with English subs). It's a documentary with the most adorable old people in it. It's gorgeous and it has to much heart.

quote:

This film documents what happened when old-timers from �le-aux-Coudres, a small island in the St. Lawrence River, were persuaded to revive a local whale-catching practice.

http://www.nfb.ca/film/pour_la_suite_du_monde_en?hpen=feature_1

# ¿ Sep 22, 2013 20:28

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

Some Femen protesters just interrupted the question period in the National Assembly with anti-crucifix slogans.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2013 20:02

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

Black Bones posted:

I love it when people who clearly care about their country (posters ITT) recoil at expressions of "patriotism". Do you vote? Do you pay attention to what goes on in society? Do you argue about how things are and how things should be?

Then you got the care real bad, my patriot friend.

What if I vote, pay attention to what goes on in society, argue about how things are and how things should be, and actively seek to split this country apart?

# ¿ Oct 2, 2013 04:16

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

Quebec artisanal cheeses are world-class. :colbert:

# ¿ Oct 20, 2013 21:15

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

Can-O-Raid posted:

I at least expect this to be the end of councilors saying they just want to give Ford time to explain his side of the story, seeing as he has now explained that he smoked crack cocaine while on a raging bender but still doesn't think he should resign.

Now, to be fair, he only got drunk while under the influence of crack.

# ¿ Nov 5, 2013 20:45

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

The only thing worse than this charter is people outside the province projecting their own xenophobia onto Qu�bec.

# ¿ Nov 8, 2013 00:33

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

Really, the name change thing is now an important issue in this thread?

Use the name you want. Who cares if your tax report has a different one?

I'd be weirded out if a woman I married wanted to take my name, but I've never given it a thought before today.

# ¿ Nov 8, 2013 06:27

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

Cordyceps Headache posted:

Why is it any business of the state though? What if both partners decided to hyphenate their last names, which is a thing that is happening more and more? Why should the state have any role in deciding it at all?

They should do whatever they want, but the state doesn't have to change the names in their database. Everybody wins!

# ¿ Nov 8, 2013 07:37

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

PT6A posted:

The only problem I have with Bixi, having lived in Montreal and used it, is without an infrastructure to provide helmets to occasional users, it's more encouragement to intoxicated users to use the bikes than anyone else. Would any sane (and sober) person ride a bike without a helmet? No, it's horribly stupid. Further, I would assume that people with their own helmets, who carry them around, most probably also have their own bikes. Therefore, if helmets aren't being provided as part of the service, you're looking at a market of incredibly stupid people and drunkards. Whether you're drunk or sober, biking without a helmet is a demonstration of remarkably poor judgement anyway, and it's quite dangerous. If you want the "impulse buyers," so to speak, you must provide helmets. That's the one nut that I haven't even seen anyone try to crack yet, and I think it must be done if Bixi or similar services are going to become part of everyday life in cities.

Mom, is this you?

# ¿ Nov 15, 2013 17:02

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

I, for one, look forward to reporting you jerks to the RCMP.

# ¿ Nov 20, 2013 23:20

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 09:42

JayMax: Jun 14, 2007; Hard-nosed gentleman

PittTheElder posted:

Based on what I read of Nate Silver's stuff during the 2012 American Election, not having a guy like him isn't the problem. His models weren't exactly ground breaking or unique either, basically all he did was say "guys, it's the states that matter, national polls are pretty useless" and thus got an accurate outcome. There was at least one other guy at Princeton doing the same thing, and got the same accurate outcomes.

Our problem is that instead of polling states or provinces, we'd have to poll ridings to do the same thing. I imagine most of them you could just handwave away at say they'll definitely go for party X, but then look at the Orange Crush in Quebec. The volume of resources you'd need to dedicate to polling large numbers of ridings with much smaller numbers of people in them is why we don't get accurate polls.

Isn't that already done to some extent? The raw data is collected, at least.

I used to work at the CROP call center in Montr�al (horrible student job). During election time, we'd call someone among a sample. We'd ask to talk to that specific person that was in our system and it'd tell us what riding they were in. We were then able to enumerate their local candidates and ask whom they'd vote for. From call to call it'd be different ridings.

# ¿ Nov 27, 2013 23:32

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