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Mycroft Holmes
Mar 26, 2010

To the Moon! For Queen and Country!


I was just having an argument with my mother about the Trayvon Martin case. She says that he was a thug and a gangbanger. I vehemently disagree. She said she would change her mind if I provided evidence that he was not, or evidence that George Zimmerman was a violent shithead. Could someone link me to a takedown of this talking point?

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Pornographic Memory
Dec 17, 2008


I'm sorry but your mother was right. Trayvon wore a hoodie, so he was obviously a thug, which is barely removed from a rabid animal and thus needed violently put down.

ronya
Nov 8, 2010


being a thug and a gangbanger shouldn't merit the death penalty for the temerity of wearing a hoody, and being a violent shithead shouldn't merit an automatic void of the right to claim self-defence, so something has gone wrong in your argument already

Mantis42
Jul 26, 2010

Spinning Sufis on their heads
Are hearing tones of wisdom
Devilish women warning
Men of their actions,
Now bring them
To you and me


Well George Zimmerman shot an unarmed teenager, that's usually a pretty good sign of being a shithead.

SedanChair
Jun 1, 2003



Sorry OP, your mom is an incurable racist. Best course of action is to prevent your own children from associating with her.

mdm
Oct 4, 2003
*heart* Bucchabesu

I thought Trayvon Martin was a ghost not a gang buster

SlipUp
Sep 30, 2006

I was gonna put him on the bus. I got tired of him talking. It was time for him to go home.

she might have a gun, better shoot first

limeincoke
Jul 3, 2005



Uh why don't you just ask her why she thinks he was a thug and a gangbanger? You're falling into the trap of letting people with horrible opinions push the burden of proof onto you. It legitimizes their viewpoint if you allow it and respond to it.

Prokhor Zakharov
Dec 31, 2008
Good luck with your depression!


1 weird trick a MOM found to determine who lives and who dies!

Thugs HATE it!

Rogue0071
Dec 8, 2009

Grey Hunter's next target.

There is a thread for asking D&Ders for debate advice/facts already, you could try posting there.

Exclamation Marx
Feb 18, 2012

A country of inveterate, backwoods, thick-headed, egotistic philistines.



He was a literal child op

The Carbon Tax
Sep 30, 2013

by XyloJW


Exclamation Marx posted:

He was a literal child op
While you are technically correct (admittedly the best kind of correct), non-autists typically use the word "child" to refer to someone younger. By way of example a google image search for "black child" gives



This point will not win an argument because it is being deliberately misleading.

SedanChair
Jun 1, 2003



The Carbon Tax posted:

While you are technically correct (admittedly the best kind of correct), non-autists typically use the word "child" to refer to someone younger. By way of example a google image search for "black child" gives



This point will not win an argument because it is being deliberately misleading.

I know you're not from here, but "child" is actually the correct term to refer to youth under 18 for state and federal agencies with whom I work on a regular basis, hth

The only reason to hem and haw about Martin being a child is to play into the idea that black male youth are intimidating.

Sucrose
Dec 9, 2009


SedanChair posted:

I know you're not from here, but "child" is actually the correct term to refer to youth under 18 for state and federal agencies with whom I work on a regular basis, hth

The only reason to hem and haw about Martin being a child is to play into the idea that black male youth are intimidating.

Good thing most people go by common definitions and not legal ones.

Anyway, the best evidence of Trayvon Martin not having been a thug or gangbanger is that there's absolutely no evidence of Trayvon Martin having been a thug or gangbanger.

The Carbon Tax
Sep 30, 2013

by XyloJW


SedanChair posted:

I know you're not from here, but "child" is actually the correct term to refer to youth under 18 for state and federal agencies with whom I work on a regular basis, hth

Did you read my entire post? Be honest.

SedanChair
Jun 1, 2003



The Carbon Tax posted:

Did you read my entire post? Be honest.

I did; unless you're calling everyone in child welfare services autistic, you don't seem to have a point.

The Carbon Tax
Sep 30, 2013

by XyloJW


OP is arguing with his/her mother, not with his/her legal counterpart at court.

SedanChair
Jun 1, 2003



His mother's past saving though. He should just call Martin a child in front of her and let her make a fool of herself.

The Carbon Tax
Sep 30, 2013

by XyloJW


To what end? There is no audience of people to be shocked and appalled when his mum protests at the use of the word child. He doesn't win any PC Points to be redeemed for cash. It will achieve the opposite of what the OP wants.

If someone asked if I would be afraid of an unarmed child, I would say no, because I would be picturing something like



Which, oddly enough, is the same as the GIS result.

At this point the oh-so-clever internet lawyer types triumphantly cry "aha! So there is no reason for anyone to be threatened by seventeen year old!"

The reason most people get pissed at this argument is the Exclamation Marx's of the world know exactly what people picture when they hear the word child, and aren't arguing in good faith by using that word as opposed to a more descriptive one (teenager).

katlington
Jun 26, 2009


I don't know if a page of almost entirely white kids is the slam dunk you think it is?

First Bass
Feb 27, 2014


The Carbon Tax posted:

If someone asked if I would be afraid of an unarmed child, I would say no, because I would be picturing something like




So we SHOULD be afraid of unarmed black kids/teenagers/young adults or whatever the gently caress will satisfy your shithead pedantry? You're a loving child.

OP, you probably should have posted in this thread instead of making a new one.

Exclamation Marx
Feb 18, 2012

A country of inveterate, backwoods, thick-headed, egotistic philistines.



http://i.imgur.com/qLnKLLH.jpg


e: oops didn't look past the Trayvon pic

Exclamation Marx fucked around with this message at Jul 12, 2014 around 09:28

SedanChair
Jun 1, 2003



What the gently caress tag and link that poo poo.

ReV VAdAUL
Oct 3, 2004

I'm WILD about
WILDMAN


Carbon Tax is working really hard to justify why it is completely sensible for him to cross the street whenever he sees a 14 y/o Aborigine coming towards him.

OP for the child definition thing to work ask her about the three Israelis kids who were killed last week first. Then when she is very likely all 'oh those poor children!' being up Trayvon again.

The Carbon Tax
Sep 30, 2013

by XyloJW


I didn't mention race at all you utter fuckwits. I'm just saying why, if the OP intends to convince his mother of something, this argument is a loser. Now I remember why I stopped reading this cesspool of SJW-ness.

For the record I don't give a poo poo what the color of your skin is, I would be more intimidated by a 17yo white guy dressed as a thug then I would by a 17yo black guy dressed nicely. I'm sure D&D can twist that statement into making me a racist somehow.

Armani
Jun 21, 2008

Now it's been 17 summers since I've seen my mother

But every night I see her smile inside my dreams


List of poo poo Zimmerman has actually done:

- Beaten and threatened to shoot his wife: http://articles.latimes.com/2013/se...update-20130909

- Then his girlfriend: http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/201...eorge-zimmerman

- Helped a family from an overturned SUV, only to be told they wanted nothing to do with him: http://gawker.com/george-zimmerman-...ident-868879251

- made over 100k in 'painting' copies of royalty free vector images: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligence...for-100099.html

- Regardless of George himself, His brother and father both are enormous racists: http://youtu.be/P6cfOSnRJj8

Also, you know, he shot the gently caress out of an unarmed teen while masquerading as neighborhood watch (he wasn't and had no right to be in the neighborhood, something every pro-zimmer person conveniently forgets).

So, if this list doesn't work, IDK OP.

Armani fucked around with this message at Jul 12, 2014 around 11:18

Exclamation Marx
Feb 18, 2012

A country of inveterate, backwoods, thick-headed, egotistic philistines.



The Carbon Tax posted:

I didn't mention race at all you utter fuckwits. I'm just saying why, if the OP intends to convince his mother of something, this argument is a loser. Now I remember why I stopped reading this cesspool of SJW-ness.

For the record I don't give a poo poo what the color of your skin is, I would be more intimidated by a 17yo white guy dressed as a thug then I would by a 17yo black guy dressed nicely. I'm sure D&D can twist that statement into making me a racist somehow.

Do you support gay marriage yet?

First Bass
Feb 27, 2014


The Carbon Tax posted:

I didn't mention race at all you utter fuckwits. I'm just saying why, if the OP intends to convince his mother of something, this argument is a loser. Now I remember why I stopped reading this cesspool of SJW-ness.

For the record I don't give a poo poo what the color of your skin is, I would be more intimidated by a 17yo white guy dressed as a thug then I would by a 17yo black guy dressed nicely. I'm sure D&D can twist that statement into making me a racist somehow.

"For the record I'm a huge crybaby and totally not a racist because white youths scare me more than black ones for some inexplicable reason, why won't the D&D social justice warrior hivemind leave me alone?"

The Carbon Tax
Sep 30, 2013

by XyloJW


[img]http://i.imgur.com/TAaZKXF.png[/url] GOATSE WAS HERE

e: Hi Xylo, no hard feelings I hope

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)


Xylo edit; Sup, AMU.

DiscoMouse
May 16, 2005
cheesecake

Ha haaaaa

Cercadelmar
Jan 4, 2014


I'd agree that the Trayvon was a child argument is weak in the sense that it doesn't address the OP's mom's argument.
These,

Armani posted:

List of poo poo Zimmerman has actually done:

- Beaten and threatened to shoot his wife: http://articles.latimes.com/2013/se...update-20130909

- Then his girlfriend: http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/201...eorge-zimmerman

- Helped a family from an overturned SUV, only to be told they wanted nothing to do with him: http://gawker.com/george-zimmerman-...ident-868879251

- made over 100k in 'painting' copies of royalty free vector images: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligence...for-100099.html

- Regardless of George himself, His brother and father both are enormous racists: http://youtu.be/P6cfOSnRJj8

Also, you know, he shot the gently caress out of an unarmed teen while masquerading as neighborhood watch (he wasn't and had no right to be in the neighborhood, something every pro-zimmer person conveniently forgets).

So, if this list doesn't work, IDK OP.
are all pretty good arguments though and won't lead to discussions on connotation vs denotation which is also a plus.

katlington
Jun 26, 2009


As long as the OP can get their mother to goatout.

Seven Force
Nov 9, 2005



When you lose arguments in real life you should be required to stretch your anus.

Go and prove your mom wrong OP

Helsing
Aug 23, 2003

THUNDERDOME LOSER

I think that The Carbon Tax just set a new record for fastest forum meltdown.

MODS CURE JOKES
Nov 11, 2009

OFFICIAL SAS 90s REMEMBERER


Why won't somebody stop the boats?

R. Mute
Jul 27, 2011



The Carbon Tax posted:

For the record I don't give a poo poo what the color of your skin is, I would be more intimidated by a 17yo white guy dressed as a thug then I would by a 17yo black guy dressed nicely. I'm sure D&D can twist that statement into making me a racist somehow.
to be fair it's really easy

Astarath
Jun 23, 2008

Could I see a Hat Wobble?

SedanChair posted:

I know you're not from here, but "child" is actually the correct term to refer to youth under 18 for state and federal agencies with whom I work on a regular basis, hth

The only reason to hem and haw about Martin being a child is to play into the idea that black male youth are intimidating.

I think you're missing his point

You're correct in saying Trayvon was a child. That's an inarguable fact. It's not being disputed. The mental imagery one associates with the word "child" is usually a person significantly younger than 17. So if you wanted to be more specific you'd say teenager or adolescent or something like that. Can we at least agree on that?

e: oh hello goatman my old friend

First Bass
Feb 27, 2014


Engaging The Crybaby Tax's argument for even one moment, we're not trying to be specific, we're trying to convince some goon's racist mom that Trayvon Martin wasn't a thug and a gangbanger. For all intents and purposes, "child" is the superior nomenclature because it has pathos, and that's on top of being technically correct. I mean, ask Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin if they considered their 17 year-old son a child.

OP, tell your mom that the burden of evidence isn't to disprove Trayvon Martin was whatever stereotype for black urban youth is roiling around in that vacuous head of hers, but to prove that he was one from the initial position of him not being whatever. In little kid terms, "innocent until proven guilty".

As for establishing that George Zimmerman is a violent shithead, he's been charged with aggravated assault, domestic violence and battery as recent as winter of last year.

GROVER CURES HOUSE
Aug 26, 2007

Go on...


The Carbon Tax posted:

e: Hi Xylo, no hard feelings I hope

This thread has been a great success thus far.

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SedanChair
Jun 1, 2003



Astarath posted:

I think you're missing his point

You're correct in saying Trayvon was a child. That's an inarguable fact. It's not being disputed. The mental imagery one associates with the word "child" is usually a person significantly younger than 17. So if you wanted to be more specific you'd say teenager or adolescent or something like that. Can we at least agree on that?

e: oh hello goatman my old friend

How about now

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